Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Delta Contract Goes To Arbitrators Today  
User currently offlineJumbojet From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1159 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3156 times:

Today is the day that arbitrators begin deciding on the fate of the current delta pilots contract in Washington DC. This is the first time an arbitration panel is going to decide the fate of an airline's contract. From what I know, they have two weeks to come to a decision, all the while DL and DALPA can still negotiate to a successful conclusion. The arbitrators decision is final and is a binding decision. These next two weeks shall be very interesting to say the least. There is a lot of different things that can happen in these next two weeks. Anyone have any wisdom to share?

18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4974 posts, RR: 25
Reply 1, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3150 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Going to arbitration does not prevent the company and DALPA from continuing to negotiate. Hopefully they will come to an agreement on their own...again....

User currently offlineOttoPylit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 3037 times:

Quoting Jumbojet (Thread starter):
From what I know, they have two weeks to come to a decision, all the while DL and DALPA can still negotiate to a successful conclusion. The arbitrators decision is final and is a binding decision. These next two weeks shall be very interesting to say the least.

Lets not forget that DALPA got to choose 2 of the 3 arbitrators, so whatever the decision that is made was, theoretically, allowed by DALPA. So the people that THEY put on the arbitration board would be responsible for whether the contract is kept or thrown out. However, the DL MEC already stated today that DALPA management intends to strike. Should be interesting.

4th paragraph:

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/11796230/




OttoPylit


User currently offlineBucky707 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1028 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 2995 times:

just so we are all straight on things......the arbitrators decide whether or not the company can void the pilots contract. Its a yes or no decision. The fact that the arbitrators decision is binding does not mean no strike. Basically the only thing that changed is the panel makes this decision instead of the judge.

Also, the final date for the panel to make a decision is April 15th.

Nothing prevents the company and union from negotiating while this process is going on,and in fact they are negotiating.

Yes, the union position is if our contract is voided we will strike, a position that is supported by the vast majority of the pilots.

I don't know what the decision of the panel will be, but the bottom line is this......Delta cannot leave bankruptcy until a deal is made with the pilots. No one will give them exit financing until the pilots have a signed deal.

I believe a mutually acceptable deal can and will be achieved prior to any job actions occuring.

At that point we can all bear down and start to work on building a great airline for the future.


User currently offlineOttoPylit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 2979 times:

Quoting Bucky707 (Reply 3):
I believe a mutually acceptable deal can and will be achieved prior to any job actions occuring.

At that point we can all bear down and start to work on building a great airline for the future.

Let's hope so.


Quick question. If the contract is thrown out, but the company gets a court injunction to stop if from happening, then what? The injunction would state that the pilots cannot strike, but ALPA contends that it can strike since there is no contract in place. So what is the end result there? By that time, a strike would be breaking the law, wouldn't it? At least, temporarily?



OttoPylit


User currently offlineSkibum9 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1229 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2924 times:

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 2):
Lets not forget that DALPA got to choose 2 of the 3 arbitrators, so whatever the decision that is made was, theoretically, allowed by DALPA. So the people that THEY put on the arbitration board would be responsible for whether the contract is kept or thrown out. However, the DL MEC already stated today that DALPA management intends to strike.



Quoting Bucky707 (Reply 3):
Yes, the union position is if our contract is voided we will strike, a position that is supported by the vast majority of the pilots.

So Bucky....let me get this right, the pilots wanted arbitration instead of having a judge decide the fate of the contract, DALPA got to pick 2 of 3 arbitrators, and if they don't get what they want (not having the contract thrown out), they will still strike. Sounds like they are not playing in "good faith." If they agreed to arbitration, why won't they agree to the findings? The company has to.

Quoting Bucky707 (Reply 3):
I believe a mutually acceptable deal can and will be achieved prior to any job actions occuring.

So do you guys have a copy of the NW contract yet? From what I understand, the savings NW got from the pilots were mostly from work rules and not actual cuts in pay rates. Given the list of work rules that are negiotiating points you posted a few weeks ago, DL pilots appears to a lot of wiggle room there.



Tailwinds!!!
User currently offlineDALOCCDtyDrctr From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 46 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 2903 times:

Quoting Bucky707 (Reply 3):
Yes, the union position is if our contract is voided we will strike, a position that is supported by the vast majority of the pilots.

You mean a "vast majority" of the 800 or so people that attended the rally in College Park a couple of months ago? 6000 pilots, hmmmm - at least half of the 800 people at that rally were pilots, that's 400 - give or take a hundred or so.....sure, that makes up a "vast majority".

Sounds good.  bigthumbsup 



N102DA
User currently offlineB777-700 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 2880 times:

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 2):
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/11796230/



Quoting Bucky707 (Reply 3):
Yes, the union position is if our contract is voided we will strike, a position that is supported by the vast majority of the pilots.

What I wanna know is how on earth the pilots expect any sympathy now. The wanted arbitration, they chose TWO of the three on the panel, they agree to it being binding, and they still come out and say "if you side against us we'll strike anyway". What a bunch of babies!

And what exactly does having the support of the other SkyTeam pilots accomplish? It's not like all the SkyTeam carriers are gonna strike with them. Ridiculous!

This is all very funny to me, that they can sleep at night messing with the lives of 50,000 employees and 40,000 retirees.


User currently offlineDALOCCDtyDrctr From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 46 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 2847 times:

No to mention where are 6000 pilots going to find jobs in today's commercial aviation industry making what they make now when they close DL's doors forever with another job action? These guys are brilliant.


N102DA
User currently offlineB777-700 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 2813 times:

Quoting DALOCCDtyDrctr (Reply 8):
No to mention where are 6000 pilots going to find jobs in today's commercial aviation industry making what they make now when they close DL's doors forever with another job action? These guys are brilliant.

Shoot, what airline would hire troublemakers like that?


User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1937 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 2777 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 2):
However, the DL MEC already stated today that DALPA management intends to strike. Should be interesting.

The pilots are not stupid and DL knows that (Part of the reason they were hired). If the went on strike it would make the TWU workers look like geniuses. At least they came back to a job. Not to mention the thousands of disgruntled DL employees who might take vengence out on them in the parking lot.



The only valid opinions are those based in facts
User currently offlineBucky707 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1028 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 2703 times:

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 4):
Quick question. If the contract is thrown out, but the company gets a court injunction to stop if from happening, then what? The injunction would state that the pilots cannot strike, but ALPA contends that it can strike since there is no contract in place. So what is the end result there? By that time, a strike would be breaking the law, wouldn't it? At least, temporarily

If Delta was able to obtain an injunction, at that point yes a strike would be illegal and would not happen. Best case an injunction would be temporary, and the pressure would build on both sides to cut a deal.

Quoting Skibum9 (Reply 5):
the pilots wanted arbitration instead of having a judge decide the fate of the contract, DALPA got to pick 2 of 3 arbitrators, and if they don't get what they want (not having the contract thrown out), they will still strike. Sounds like they are not playing in "good faith." If they agreed to arbitration, why won't they agree to the findings? The company has to.

Both sides were nervous about the previous judge. The mutually agreed to let a panel decide on the question of voiding the contract. That is all that changed. The company agreed to live by the decision of the panel, but did you know if the panel rules for the pilots, there is nothing stopping the company from filing another 1113C motion the next day to try and void the contract? The pilots union did not agree to give up the right to strike, the company did not agree to give up their right to impose a contract. The only thing that changed was for this 1113C motion, the panel makes the decision instead of the judge. Neither side gave up their options for the future. Both knew this and both agreed to it.

[Edited 2006-03-14 15:32:57]

User currently offlineLitz From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1788 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 2689 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

My question is this ...

DALPA may strike ...

And some pilots may honor the strike ...

But how many?

I have a serious feeling that if the contract is nullified, there will be a serious amount of walkthrough, and what it may end up doing is breaking the union itself - instead of forcing a new contract.

What do y'all think?

- litz


User currently offlineSkibum9 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1229 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 2667 times:

Quoting Bucky707 (Reply 11):
there is nothing stopping the company from filing another 1113C motion the next day to try and void the contract?

Now you know dang well, that if a supposed impartial arbitration panel says that the contract will remain, it would be next to impossible to get a judge to change that opinion if DL would file another 1113C unless some new facts were to emerge that were not disclosed during the arbitration. So I would contend that DL management is well aware of this and know that they are pretty much stuck with the panel's decision. The only new facts that could possibly cause a judge to overrule the panel's decision is if DL's financials get significantly worse over the time that the negotiations started, but not released until after the panel makes it decision. We know from the last financial statements that they are starting to see some improvement, but no where near what is needed to be profitable. So, there would have to be a pretty drastic reversal of the improvements, either through another fuel price spike or something out of management's control, to get the judge to possibly overturn the panel's decision. As such, management will be stuck with the decision and they know it. The pilots know it as well, yet they still threaten strike if the contract is terminated based on the panel's decision. Despite the options, which are not realistic for management, the pilots are holding the trump card, and as such are not negotiating in good faith.



Tailwinds!!!
User currently offlineSBN580 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 401 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2598 times:

Quoting Bucky707 (Reply 3):
I believe a mutually acceptable deal can and will be achieved prior to any job actions occuring.

At that point we can all bear down and start to work on building a great airline for the future.

With us loyal Delta customers right there with you! Big grin I hopefully look forward to that day.



North Central: Good People Made Their Airline Great! FLY MD-90 POWER! Keep 'em Flying DELTA Family!
User currently offlineJumbojet From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1159 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 2571 times:

Delta wants the pilots pension and they want pay reductions. Whats left for the pilots if Delta gets what it says they need? Could you blame the pilots for walking if all that is taken away? They take all that away there's barely anything left for them, how would you feel?

Every once in a while, there is going to be a block buster strike that shakes and rattles a company to its bones. Just look at the NYC Transit strike of Dec. 2005. The last time there was a transit strike was in 1966. When was the last airline to have its pilot's go on strike? I'm not sure when it was but its only a matter of time before another airline comes and takes its place as the last airline to strike. I hope this doesnt happen and hopefully the two sides can work out a deal before the arbitors make their final decision.

Also, DL CFO Stated that he can't garauntee there wouldnt be future pilot pay cuts because Delta's financial situation is the worst. So, what the f*** do you do if your a pilot for DL ? Keep taking pay cuts until you are making minumum wage? Hopefully things havent deteriorated to the point of no return.

[Edited 2006-03-14 21:37:23]

User currently offlineTL8490 From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 161 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 2557 times:

Unbelievable....So you make top dollar in an industry that is headed down at a fast rate and REFUSE to offer relief ( Top Pay till the LAST Day) and now there is a request for sympathy.

Oh and dont forget...the rest of the employees have taken 2 paycuts already.

And before all of the pilots start ....the first pay cut amounted to over a 30% paycut when you added in the loss of days off and the change in benefits.

Finally...why destroy the airline that all of you detest so much..just leave and feel the cold slap of the real world.


User currently offlineOttoPylit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2509 times:

Quoting FlyDeltaJets (Reply 10):
The pilots are not stupid and DL knows that (Part of the reason they were hired).

You sure about that? I know a lot of people who disagree, like the rest of the entire Delta corporation. Because of ALPA's drag-ass technique, the pilots are now likely to lose their pension, something that could have been avoided earlier had they ponied up. Oh well, to each his own.

Quoting FlyDeltaJets (Reply 10):
Not to mention the thousands of disgruntled DL employees who might take vengence out on them in the parking lot.

That would be a guarantee. Every Porsche or every pickup and SUV out there with a set of wings on the front vanity plate would not get away unscathed, thats for sure.

Quoting TL8490 (Reply 16):
Finally...why destroy the airline that all of you detest so much..just leave and feel the cold slap of the real world.

They can't do that. That would be too easy. Since airlines aren't exactly on a "hiring frenzy" right now, that means they would have to go out and get a real job and actually work. Oh, just the thought.... stirthepot 


OttoPylit


User currently offlineBucky707 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1028 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2450 times:

Quoting TL8490 (Reply 16):
Oh and dont forget...the rest of the employees have taken 2 paycuts already.

And before all of the pilots start ....the first pay cut amounted to over a 30% paycut when you added in the loss of days off and the change in benefits.

the pilots first cut was 32.5% on the pay rates alone. With loss of days off and other changes in work rules and benefits it was about 45% of the old contract value. Since then we have taken a second pay cut of 14% on the rates, plus a few other small items for about a 15% total cut.


Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Delta Starts Flying To DUS Today posted Tue Apr 4 2006 08:02:34 by Airlittoralguy
Why Delta MD11 Flew To YMX Today? posted Thu Jan 8 2004 03:46:35 by Big777jet
Air Miami 727 Goes To ANC Today! posted Tue Jul 2 2002 05:53:11 by Big777jet
Delta 737-800 To BUR Today, Why? posted Tue Apr 2 2002 03:01:10 by B737-112
It's Official: Delta's New Livery To Debut Today posted Wed Mar 22 2000 20:01:02 by ORD
CX Goes 4 Daily To LHR Today posted Thu Dec 1 2005 02:48:27 by N754PR
More Delta Woes, Bad Goes To Worse.... posted Sat Jun 25 2005 16:29:42 by Jumbojet
Delta Sends MD11 To JAX 3 Times Today posted Sun Feb 23 2003 17:32:09 by Big777jet
Delta Low-Cost To Be Announced Today posted Wed Nov 20 2002 07:55:12 by NBC News1
Delta Baggage Limit To GRU posted Tue Dec 12 2006 02:02:30 by Md94