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JetBlue Seeking Alliances  
User currently offlineFA4B6 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 5451 times:

JetBlue seeking alliances
Airline looking to expand its travel offerings by partnering with international carriers

http://www.timesdispatch.com/servlet...icle&c=MGArticle&cid=1137834649007

38 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFreakyDeaky From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 132 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 5388 times:

I think this would be very interesting and would be a resounding success. Neeleman must have some creative way to make it work in mind.

With the advent of the Air Train, getting around JFK is a breeze - so the people moving logistics are in place - the bags would be the "row to hoe."



"Finish each day and be done with it. You have done what you could."
User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13543 posts, RR: 100
Reply 2, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 5388 times:
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Recall that Neeleman has made a big deal that these "alliances" be on B6's terms:
e.g. the other airline brings luggage to B6 and take the luggage back over to their terminal.

from the link:

Quote:

Dervin would not name the carriers involved in the talks, but there are more than 100 international carriers at JFK. She stressed that any new partnerships would be different than traditional strategic alliances many American carriers have for overseas service. Those allow passengers to book flights on one airline yet transfer to a second airline for overseas destinations.

"We're working on a new way to make it as seamless as possible," she said.

A seemless connection would be ideal.

Quote:
"I'd believe JetBlue would not enter a traditional 'code share'" with other airlines, said Darryl Jenkins, an airport consultant and former director of the Aviation Institute at George Washington University. "The term in use is 'marketing alliance.' You do things to increase traffic but not increase cost."

 checkmark  B6 is doing quite a bit to up the RASM. This could result in a very interesting "our cities" page very soon!

But this is old news. Oh, it will be a big deal when a partnership is announced. But until then...

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26150 posts, RR: 50
Reply 3, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 5316 times:

This is quite a 180 degree turnaround for JetBlue.

I personally know they have been approached by several foreign operators these last few years for various relationships which Jetblue turned down on grounds of not wanting to complicate its business model, and also on grounds of IT intraface issues.

It seems Jetblue maybe finally has realised it sits on a valuable connection franchise particularly at JFK, and can derive incremental revenues while also drawing connection passengers away from flying the likes as AA & DL.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineMbm3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 853 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 5239 times:
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Quoting Laxintl (Reply 3):
It seems Jetblue maybe finally has realised it sits on a valuable connection franchise particularly at JFK, and can derive incremental revenues while also drawing connection passengers away from flying the likes as AA & DL.

I think you could add CO to this list as well. This could have an impact on international connections at EWR considering the number of similar domestic routes.



Let Me Tell You, Landing A 772ER Is Harder Than It Looks!
User currently offlineJetBluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3018 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 5118 times:

There is definitely some great revenue potential if B6 plays their cards right...

JetBluefan1



Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
User currently offlineHawk44 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 759 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 5110 times:

Could this be in response to DL's new hub in JFK  stirthepot 

Hawk44



Never under estimate the power of US
User currently offlineZone1 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1035 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 4996 times:

The article mentions VS as a possible alliance partner. I would agree if it wasn't for Virgin America coming online soon. I can't believe Branson would want to hand over plane full of passengers to JetBlue when they could fly Virgin America.


/// U N I T E D
User currently offlineJetBluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3018 posts, RR: 14
Reply 8, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 4957 times:

Quoting Hawk44 (Reply 6):
Could this be in response to DL's new hub in JFK

The fact that JetBlue was looking at alliances was actually revealed before DL announced their new "hub". However, I could see B6 possibly investing more money and time into something like this as a result.

JetBluefan1



Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
User currently offlineBelizexp From Belize, joined Dec 2005, 374 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 4909 times:

B6 will be just like a UA,AA,DL,US,NW and CO in the near future bottom line is as a US Airlines you need to go where the money is and that Oversea.


Belize my home sweet home...
User currently offlineJetBluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3018 posts, RR: 14
Reply 10, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 4881 times:

Quoting Belizexp (Reply 9):
B6 will be just like a UA,AA,DL,US,NW and CO in the near future bottom line is as a US Airlines you need to go where the money is and that Oversea.

Not necessarily. WN is highly profitable and they don't operate anywhere out of the U.S - except with the ATA code share, which has very few international flights.

I think B6 could benefit handsomely from this because of its route map. Because B6 is based at JFK, which has about the same amount of domestic volume as it does international, it can easily take advantage of connecting opportunities with some European airlines. B6 flies to BUF, ROC, SYR, BTV, PWM, and these airports don't have service overseas. As B6 expands to small- and mid-sized cities such as those listed, international carriers will also find advantages to routing people through B6. It's a win/win/win - for B6, the international carrier, and the consumer.

The airlines that would hurt from this would most likely be those with with considerable international networks. Flying B6 from PWM-JFK and Iberia from JFK-MAD will be another option on a long list of PWM-XXX-MAD's, but if it's priced and timed correctly, this could be a major profit-maker.

JetBluefan1



Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4973 posts, RR: 25
Reply 11, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 4848 times:
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Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 10):
As B6 expands to small- and mid-sized cities such as those listed, international carriers will also find advantages to routing people through B6. It's a win/win/win - for B6, the international carrier, and the consumer.

How would it work with the premium cabin passengers from the international carrier? Why wouldn't the carrier face the same situation as DL did with Song, i.e., a full-fare F/J paying passenger from Europe to JFK is not going to be too amused sitting in a Y (potentially middle) seat from JFK to BUR or OAK or LGB after crossing the pond in a lie-flat seat. As good as people think B6's Coach service is, it is still Coach...

[Edited 2006-03-13 23:43:06]

User currently offlineOttoPylit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 4837 times:

I wonder what Jetblue's plan for this is, since its common knowledge that interline agreements drive up airline costs(the reason that WN has none). Being that Jetblue's honeymoon is now over and its realizing growing pains, is Neeleman intentionally trying to drive up his airline's costs? Being that he has never worked with an airline that HAD interline agreements, I guess you can't really expect him to know that. The article clearly stated that if it were to happen, costs would rise, but the return would be minimal.

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 2):
Recall that Neeleman has made a big deal that these "alliances" be on B6's terms:
e.g. the other airline brings luggage to B6 and take the luggage back over to their terminal.

Interesting. So now, its not a "marketing partnership", but its a "Jetblue marketing ship", easily cutting out the 'partner' part of it. For a partnership to work, both airlines have to work together, otherwise it will unfold very quickly. Ever heard the term, "It takes two to tango?" Same concept. If Jetblue thinks that other airlines will cater to "their" whims for a partnership, they are sorely mistaken. Why should an airline like VS do all the work, when they can partner with a bigger airline, with many more destinations, and that is actually willing to work with the international airline, instead of make that airline do all the work? Such as if VS wanted to partner with any legacy airline, like DL, NW, etc.

Neeleman's plan of the partnership being on Jetblue's terms isn't very sporting, IMO.



OttoPylit


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33284 posts, RR: 71
Reply 13, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 4821 times:

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 10):
WN is highly profitable and they don't operate anywhere out of the U.S - except with the ATA code share, which has very few international flights.

WN does not codeshare on ATA's international routes, which are only Cancun and Guadalajara.



a.
User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13543 posts, RR: 100
Reply 14, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 4728 times:
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Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 12):

Neeleman's plan of the partnership being on Jetblue's terms isn't very sporting, IMO.

Sporting or not, that is what Neeleman stated. Note: it could just be the start of negotiations.  spin 

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineJetBluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3018 posts, RR: 14
Reply 15, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 4598 times:

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 12):
Neeleman's plan of the partnership being on Jetblue's terms isn't very sporting, IMO.

I agree that this isn't all too attractive to the international airline. However, if it means getting a $500 fare instead of giving it to DL, I'm sure they'd be willing to work by B6's rules. Keep in mind that B6 is the one being approached by other airlines -- B6 hasn't approached anyone.

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 12):
I wonder what Jetblue's plan for this is, since its common knowledge that interline agreements drive up airline costs(the reason that WN has none).

Since B6 stated that any interline agreement will be on their terms, not the other airline's, this will not significantly increase costs. In any case, any costs that are incurred (which would be very limited because the international airline would be responsible for delivering the luggage, according to Neeleman) would be offset by increased revenue.

I think this will work out well for B6. JFK has a plethora of international airlines, and as B6 expands to more cities, I'd expect those airlines to find JetBlue more and more attractive.

JetBluefan1



Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
User currently offlineOttoPylit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4511 times:

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 15):
Keep in mind that B6 is the one being approached by other airlines -- B6 hasn't approached anyone.

No? Where does it say that in the article? With the exception of Neeleman saying, "There are a lot of people interested in our network", that doesn't exactly mean other airlines, so its a little ambiguous there. Other than that, I don't see anything in the article stating that B6 is being approached. It did say that Virgin, Air India, and Maxjet all want feed on both sides of the Atlantic, but didn't say that B6 was approached. So who is approaching B6?

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 15):
I agree that this isn't all too attractive to the international airline. However, if it means getting a $500 fare instead of giving it to DL, I'm sure they'd be willing to work by B6's rules.

For who, Jetblue or the international airline? Most of the international airlines in question do not compete directly or heavily with DL on any routes, so that can't be it. And its not going to help Jetblue very much, as DL already has interline agreements with all(except MY) of these airlines, and most of the trans-Atlantic carriers really don't care who gets the person to the gateway city, whether its B6 or DL, or even Amtrak, as long as they get there.

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 15):
I agree that this isn't all too attractive to the international airline.



Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 15):
Since B6 stated that any interline agreement will be on their terms, not the other airline's, this will not significantly increase costs. In any case, any costs that are incurred (which would be very limited because the international airline would be responsible for delivering the luggage, according to Neeleman) would be offset by increased revenue.

So tell me, why should ANY airline(but we'll use VS for example) even give B6 the time of day then? If I am VS, YOU want an interline agreement with me, but in order to offset YOUR costs(as if we at VS care), you want ME to increase MY costs by covering YOUR part of the agreement? Therefore, any B6 customers transferring to VS, you want me to have to hire more people to pick up the bags from your side of the airport, and for any passengers transferring from VS to B6, you want me to have those people also bring the bags over? Well, whenever we work with USAir, their people bring the bags to us when connecting onto VS, and we bring the bags to them when connecting to USAir. So why should I cover your part of the agreement? It doesn't make sense. It sounds like Neeleman is trying to play hardball in a contest that he really doesn't have much ground to hold onto.

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 15):
I think this will work out well for B6. JFK has a plethora of international airlines, and as B6 expands to more cities, I'd expect those airlines to find JetBlue more and more attractive.

But how is that when:

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 15):
I agree that this isn't all too attractive to the international airline.

Neeleman's argument is going to have to be changed quite heavily before any trans-Atlantic carrier negotiates anything.

Also, many of these airlines, especially those with 1 or 2 flights from JFK, are outsourced to other airlines, like AA and DL. And those airlines can't afford to increase their costs anymore, obviously.



OttoPylit


User currently offlineJetBluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3018 posts, RR: 14
Reply 17, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 4317 times:

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 16):
No? Where does it say that in the article? With the exception of Neeleman saying, "There are a lot of people interested in our network", that doesn't exactly mean other airlines, so its a little ambiguous there. Other than that, I don't see anything in the article stating that B6 is being approached. It did say that Virgin, Air India, and Maxjet all want feed on both sides of the Atlantic, but didn't say that B6 was approached. So who is approaching B6?

The article means nothing. The press conferences that have occurred over the last two months confirm that JetBlue has always been the one approached. Neeleman claims that there wasn't much discussion in past years because JetBlue didn't fly to the smaller cities that interested international airlines, but as the E190s come on board, they are looking to "hook up" with B6.

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 16):
For who, Jetblue or the international airline? Most of the international airlines in question do not compete directly or heavily with DL on any routes, so that can't be it. And its not going to help Jetblue very much, as DL already has interline agreements with all(except MY) of these airlines, and most of the trans-Atlantic carriers really don't care who gets the person to the gateway city, whether its B6 or DL, or even Amtrak, as long as they get there.

The $500 would mostly be going to the international carrier as it is obviously offering more service. It doesn't cost B6 $500 to carry someone from Rochester to JFK...

Also, my reference to DL wasn't meant just for DL. Keep in mind that international airlines also have to compete with AA, CO, and all other trans-Atlantic airlines that fly out of the East Coast. Remember that to a customer, it doesn't matter if they fly PWM-ORD-MAD, or PWM-JFK-MAD. Therefore, this is competition on a much broader scale. This is not just competition out of the New York market, and it's also not just competition with US airlines.

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 16):
So tell me, why should ANY airline(but we'll use VS for example) even give B6 the time of day then? If I am VS, YOU want an interline agreement with me, but in order to offset YOUR costs(as if we at VS care), you want ME to increase MY costs by covering YOUR part of the agreement? Therefore, any B6 customers transferring to VS, you want me to have to hire more people to pick up the bags from your side of the airport, and for any passengers transferring from VS to B6, you want me to have those people also bring the bags over? Well, whenever we work with USAir, their people bring the bags to us when connecting onto VS, and we bring the bags to them when connecting to USAir. So why should I cover your part of the agreement? It doesn't make sense. It sounds like Neeleman is trying to play hardball in a contest that he really doesn't have much ground to hold onto.

Airlines such as VS have already set up shop at JFK. For example, VS offers 3 (?) flights a day to JFK, which is the most they offer to any single US airport. Considering that B6 is based at JFK, this allows VS and B6 to have many more connection opportunities. If it means the difference between getting someone on your plane instead of a competitor's, I don't think the cost of moving a bag from Terminal 6 to Terminal 4 is going to change much. Revenue is revenue. If it costs $10/hr to have someone driving back and forth between the two terminals, so be it. It's well worth it when you're getting more traffic.

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 16):
Neeleman's argument is going to have to be changed quite heavily before any trans-Atlantic carrier negotiates anything.

Once again, JetBlue has been approached time and again by international airlines. If other airliens want it badly enough, they will abide by JetBlue's ways. JFK is the only airport that some international airlines fly to in the US. Therefore, such an ageement could be more lucrative for such an airline.

I reiterate my opinion that this will work out for JetBlue once everything is said and done. While the international carriers may not necessarily like the terms of agreement, I think they will find increased revenue as a result.

JetBluefan1



Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
User currently offlineCOERJ145 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1421 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 4299 times:

I'd think F9 would be a good choice. Both have similar products, and F9 has a good presence in the west coast and mexico.

User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21583 posts, RR: 59
Reply 19, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 4265 times:

Quoting Zone1 (Reply 7):
The article mentions VS as a possible alliance partner. I would agree if it wasn't for Virgin America coming online soon. I can't believe Branson would want to hand over plane full of passengers to JetBlue when they could fly Virgin America.

VS runs code shares with CO, and with B6 entering EWR, not sure how well that would sit with CO to have B6 align with VS, a competitor at a "competing airport" in the same market.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineAtmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 37
Reply 20, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 4195 times:

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 15):
I agree that this isn't all too attractive to the international airline. However, if it means getting a $500 fare instead of giving it to DL, I'm sure they'd be willing to work by B6's rules. Keep in mind that B6 is the one being approached by other airlines -- B6 hasn't approached anyone.

I think the only candidates are Star carriers and independents. Oneworld carriers have AA and Skyteam has DL. Star is weak at NYC international airports.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 19):
VS runs code shares with CO, and with B6 entering EWR, not sure how well that would sit with CO to have B6 align with VS, a competitor at a "competing airport" in the same market.

Maybe they will push the Feds to do something about Bermuda II.



ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1937 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 3965 times:
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Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 16):
Therefore, any B6 customers transferring to VS, you want me to have to hire more people to pick up the bags from your side of the airport

At JFK a company called Triangle handles interline bags for the entire airport.



The only valid opinions are those based in facts
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21583 posts, RR: 59
Reply 22, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 3753 times:

Quoting FlyDeltaJets (Reply 21):
At JFK a company called Triangle handles interline bags for the entire airport.

But airlines pay for it. So does B6 want the partner to pay for it in both directions?



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineTxAgKuwait From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 1803 posts, RR: 42
Reply 23, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 3732 times:

Jet Blue still has a long way to go before they would be put on "bankruptcy watch" but you have to wonder what the hell Neeleman is thinking.

For the last 25 years or so we've seen new entrants come and new entrants go and many of them had one thing in common:

They all said something "we want to be like Southwest (ie profitable) but we want to _______ (fill in blank, with something like: went to assign seats, we want to offer First Class, we want to interline with other carriers, we want a commuter code share partner, we want a different sized airplane for thin routes, etc etc etc)

JetBlue wanted to be like Southwest - ie profitable - but they wanted Airbuses not Boeings, they wanted to be somewhat upscale with assigned seats, they wanted to grow faster than WN did, they wanted to function as more of a hub and spoke carrier, they had to have that Embraer, so on and so forth.

The airline business may be one of those deals where you just can't have it all. And going in for widespread interlining is just another way JetBlue says adios to their original business model as they traipse down the path of financially plagued airlines.


User currently offlineFlyboyaz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2707 times:

It's a great idea considering where their main hub is. TONS of international traffic coming in. Would make perfect sense to interline with certain major international carriers to spread their pax across the US.

Jetblue is starting to see some financial hurdles but in the long run I think they will continue to be successful...Neelman is a good businessman.


25 Mia : Avianca used to promote JetBlue on their website as offering excellent connections from FLL to the rest of the U.S. I am glad JetBlue wants to extend
26 ChiGB1973 : I see those blue planes going Virgin. Bye bye B6, hello Virgin America. M
27 Ca2ohHP : Funny you should mention bags. I've found UA in IAD, DEN, ORD is the absolute worst at transferring bags to other airlines. The monthly DOT baggage c
28 Post contains images MiCorazonAzul : While I could see an alliance with Frontier, the alliances Neeleman is talking about is with international carriers. Because we are HUGE in JFK, an a
29 OttoPylit : But your missing the point here. What does VS gain out of this? Virgin already has passengers. Virgin is already making money. Virgin is in no dire n
30 PlanesNTrains : Just to clarify up front, Otto - this is not an argument to your point. Just a thought. What if B6 says to, say, VS, "Hey, since you've got the bagru
31 JetBluefan1 : OttoPylit, You see things your way. I see things mine. I think this will be a good move for B6. You don't. I don't blame you. I'm a B6 shareholder and
32 Post contains links FA4B6 : Jazz Air Seeks to Fly for U.S. Carriers, Chief Randell Says http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000082&sid=aept_ojO4FDc
33 Ikramerica : How does Saudi Arabian or South African serving JFK help VS? VS flying to EWR to connect people on CO is no less valuable, if customers aren't stoppi
34 JetBluefan1 : I never meant that. However, it's better for the international carrier. Why? JFK has extremely high O&D demand, which is why most international airli
35 Airman99o : not sure if this was mentioned. but there is Talk about WestJet forming an alliance with some international carriers as well. Read that in a magazine
36 Post contains images MalpensaSFO : Why wouldnt they chose CPT-LHR-SEA?
37 Ca2ohHP : Neelman blew it. He should have worked out an agreement with Branson when he had the chance.
38 Post contains images OttoPylit : Thats certainly a possibility, but only if B6 is willing to part with the revenue. I'm guessing they are not willing, since they want the agreement t
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