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VLM Acquiring Avro RJ's?  
User currently offlineAlan BC From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 22 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 4103 times:

According to the VLM website timetable, as from Monday 15th May 2006, the London City to Luxembourg route will be operated by an Avroliner.

Can anyone confirm that this aircraft type being purchased/leased and if so which model are they considering. There are several a/c of each model currently available. "RJ70", & "RJ100".

Any comments please.

Alan

25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSWISSER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 4052 times:

Maybe they seek other aircraft options now since the Rekkof project does not take form...

Altough it's the first I heard about it!


User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6868 posts, RR: 63
Reply 2, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 4044 times:

Is it a codeshare of some sort?

Otherwise, I could see it. For all its woes, the 146/ARJ continues to be popular with many operators and it would be some sort of natural progression for VLM. Fingers crosseed.


User currently offlineJohnnybgoode From Germany, joined Jan 2001, 2187 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 4003 times:

in a current issue of ATW magazine, it's stated that VLM is looking to snatch more second-hand Fokker 50s.

the ARJs are not exactly the most economical aircraft, but if they have good loads and good yields, a small sub-fleet could be worth it. still, i doubt that's gonna happen.

rgds
daniel



If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
User currently offlineTOLtommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3288 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3935 times:

The nature of LCY (very restrictive, very business oriented) lends itself to higher yields. I'm sure any smart airline is looking for the bigger plane they can find to get in there. A lot of the Avros on the market have been snapped up by EU carriers lately. Mesaba just parked some in the desert, I understand the rest of their Avro fleet will be there this fall.

User currently offlineVfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 3964 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3873 times:

It will be a RJ70.

..

..


User currently offlineSWISSER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3847 times:

Quoting Vfw614 (Reply 5):
It will be a RJ70.

Really?

BTW,

they need to be able to operate at ANR too,
I think the ARJ can operate there, but at the maximum of it's performance.


User currently offline7LBAC111 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2004, 2566 posts, RR: 35
Reply 7, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3773 times:

Quoting Vfw614 (Reply 5):
It will be a RJ70.

Care to provide a source?

Have checked the GDS loaded schedules, and they are showing the ARJ operating the service. THis could be an interesting develoment in the VLM chapter of expansion.

7L



Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
User currently offlineGkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24911 posts, RR: 56
Reply 8, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3765 times:

Aye, have also heard it's gonna be an RJ70, ex Euromanx


When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineBBJII From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 850 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3757 times:

Maybe a lease from Euromanx?

There's a few ex Azzurra RJ's floating around.


Interesting as the compete with LG E135's on the route.


But Great news all round.


 wave 



Remember: The Bird Hit You, You Didn't Hit The Bird.....
User currently offlineHBDAN From Switzerland, joined Jan 2006, 661 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3735 times:

Can someone explain to me why you should go for a jet if you have a fleet of F50??? And why now that turboprops are becoming popular again??

If they go for the RJ70, why haven't they choosen the Q400, which has lower operating costs?

I really do not understand this move...

Regards,
HBDAN



Next flight: hopefully soon...
User currently offlineVfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 3964 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3712 times:

The aircraft will apparently only be used on the LUX-LCY route. This route was initially served as a code-share service with Luxair by VLM's Fokker 50s. A while ago, Luxair cancelled their LUX-STN route and replaced it with their own Fokker 50 LUX-LCY service, ending the VLM code-share. Last year, Luxair replaced their Fokker 50 with the ERJ135 jet to gain a competitive advantage. The introduction of the RJ70 on that route by VLM should be seen merely as a response to Luxair's aggressive expansion and certainly not as the start of a fleet make-over. On routes where VLM has no jet competition, the Fokker 50 is just fine.

Where the RJ70s will come from I don't know but as there are only 11 RJ70s around world-wide, the two stored Euromanx examples seem to be a safe guess.


User currently offlineHBDAN From Switzerland, joined Jan 2006, 661 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3703 times:

Quoting Vfw614 (Reply 11):
Luxair replaced their Fokker 50 with the ERJ135 jet to gain a competitive advantage

Which one?

If I think to the ERJ135 I can only think to a high CASM. In addition to that, the distance between LUX and LCY is so short that there is nearly no difference between jet and prop!

Regards,
HBDAN



Next flight: hopefully soon...
User currently offlineFRALIM From Germany, joined Jun 2003, 121 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3688 times:

They've been planning to introduce that ARJ for a while now. The first time I saw it was in January, when it looked like they were gonna introduce the ARJ's end of January. At least that's what was stated in the reservation systems at that time (I mentioned it here. Check the last paragraph of my post, ignore the rest especially the info regarding MUC ashamed . Those dates kept moving back, at first to the end of February, then it was the end of March and now the earliest date for the ARJ in the system is mid May. I'm not saying that it is not going to happen, but they still don't seem to have found the right airframe...

Cheers,
CHris


User currently offlineVfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 3964 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3683 times:

Quoting HBDAN (Reply 12):
Which one? If I think to the ERJ135 I can only think to a high CASM. In addition to that, the distance between LUX and LCY is so short that there is nearly no difference between jet and prop!

There is none other than marketing the service as a jet service (although in all honesty, the Fokker 50 has a 20minute longer block time on the route despite the relatively short distance). If there were other reasons than marketing, VLM certainly would not have chosen the RJ70 which is not exactly a CASM dream-come-true either....


User currently offlineHBDAN From Switzerland, joined Jan 2006, 661 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3675 times:

Quoting Vfw614 (Reply 14):
There is none other than marketing the service as a jet service (although in all honesty, the Fokker 50 has a 20minute longer block time on the route despite the relatively short distance). If there were other reasons than marketing, VLM certainly would not have chosen the RJ70 which is not exactly a CASM dream-come-true either....

Wow! Haven't thought that it would result in 20 minutes less per leg! Thats quite a lot... fair enough to try to carry on competition with a jet!

Regards,
HBDAN



Next flight: hopefully soon...
User currently offlineStarGoldLHR From Heard and McDonald Islands, joined Feb 2004, 1529 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3651 times:

Eventually VLM will have to fleet replace.

Just like bmi.. if they cannot find another A330 they took what was available. a 767.

VLM needed something extra and thats whats out there.



So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
User currently offlineVfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 3964 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3651 times:

Block time for the F50 on the route typically is 1:25 or 1:30 against 1:05 or 1:10 for the ERJ135.

Luxair initially had some performance issues at LCY with the ERJ135 but these have been sorted out by now, I understand. The two ERJ135 were only bought for the LCY services (one being more a less a back-up scheduled on thinner ERJ145 routes), by the way, so obviously they take this route quite seriously.


User currently offlineBBJII From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 850 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3617 times:

Quoting Vfw614 (Reply 11):
the two stored Euromanx examples seem to be a safe guess.

When did Euromanx store these???

I thought they were available for Charter and Lease??

 wave 



Remember: The Bird Hit You, You Didn't Hit The Bird.....
User currently offlineVfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 3964 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3612 times:

Quoting BBJII (Reply 18):
When did Euromanx store these???
I thought they were available for Charter and Lease??

Last I heard of them was that they were put into storage at EXT about 10 days ago.

Quoting FRALIM (Reply 13):
Check the last paragraph of my post, ignore the rest especially the info regarding MUC

By the way, the Cirrus Airlines flights will continue. There apparently were some slot issues, hence the late uploading of the flights into the GDS.


User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6868 posts, RR: 63
Reply 20, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3599 times:

Quoting HBDAN (Reply 10):
If they go for the RJ70, why haven't they choosen the Q400, which has lower operating costs?

One factor must be that passengers consistently prefer jets to props. Flying on an ARJ (even the smallest one) feels quite different (read: "better") than an F.50, ATR, Dash-8 or whatever.

Quoting Vfw614 (Reply 11):
On routes where VLM has no jet competition, the Fokker 50 is just fine.

 checkmark  Exactly. But put it against a jet and I know which I would choose.


User currently offlineSNBru From Belgium, joined Feb 2005, 168 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 3366 times:

On luchtvaartnieuws.nl it is confirmed that the news about a new airplane for VLM is INCORRECT. The only airplane in the VLM fleet is the good old F50.

User currently offlineVfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 3964 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 3344 times:

I cannot see what kind of "misunderstanding" there should be. The "misunderstanding" could well be the "fleet-renewal" thing which obviously is not the case. Other than that, the GDS only reflect data that have been uploaded by the airline. I assume that VLM currently is in no position to confirm.

User currently offlineSWISSER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3297 times:

Quoting SNBru (Reply 21):
On luchtvaartnieuws.nl it is confirmed that the news about a new airplane for VLM is INCORRECT. The only airplane in the VLM fleet is the good old F50.

I have to agree guys,
I work daily with VG OPS and staff, and they fall literelly out of the sky about this...

But where smoke is is fire, GDS displays the info, so WTF is going on?


User currently offlineVfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 3964 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (8 years 4 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 3053 times:

Any further news in this matter ? The GDS still show the "ARJ" for the LUX-LCY route...

User currently offlineBBJII From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 850 posts, RR: 4
Reply 25, posted (8 years 4 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3002 times:

Quoting SWISSER (Reply 23):
I work daily with VG OPS and staff, and they fall literelly out of the sky about this...

As long as there Aircarft don't do the same...were OK

Quoting Vfw614 (Reply 24):
Any further news in this matter ? The GDS still show the "ARJ" for the LUX-LCY route...

Amadeus show's RJ70

tomorrows FPL's are filed as F50.



Remember: The Bird Hit You, You Didn't Hit The Bird.....
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