Scalebuilder From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Posted (3 years 8 months 12 hours ago) and read 7607 times:
I have always wondered how comfortable (or uncomfortable) it is for a pilot to fly long hours all day long confined to a small and hot cockpit wearing a shirt and a tie. It seems to be policy across the board with the exception of maybe smaller and more casual commuter airlines.
Surely I understand that pilots represent an important part of the public perception of any airline. Though I am surprised that no one has ever tried to have this changed. The rest of the world is going casual simply because it is more comfortable.
I would think most airlines could come up with a presentable uniform for their pilots without the tight-buttoned shirt and the tie that goes with it?
Galleyhag From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 37 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (3 years 8 months 12 hours ago) and read 7603 times:
I agree! I am cabin crew and I mainly do longhaul flights and I have to say the minute we take off most Flight Crew unbutton shirts, take off ties and some even change into casual gear. Then just before the seatbelt signs come back on they go and get changed again! I don't blame 'em!
Scalebuilder From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 3, posted (3 years 8 months 11 hours ago) and read 7541 times:
Quoting Galleyhag (Reply 1): I am cabin crew and I mainly do longhaul flights and I have to say the minute we take off most Flight Crew unbutton shirts, take off ties and some even change into casual gear.
Well.....I guess that just confirms that there may be a need for new thinking among the airlines. The liberty of changing may be present on long-haul flights, and I think that is a very good option to have available. But on short-haul flights with multiple landings and take-offs in a day, and with the change in temperature that may come with that, it just has to be miserable to have to keep that tie on.
I was required to wear a tie, and that was in a temperature controlled ofice environment, but boy was I glad to come home just to rip that thing off! Now we are business casual. Much better.
Ckfred From United States, joined Apr 2001, 3038 posts, RR: 2 Reply 4, posted (3 years 8 months 11 hours ago) and read 7522 times:
Here's a secret. Many pilots were clip-on ties. It's a safety issue. First, a clip-on is far safer, if it gets caught in a piece of machinery. Second, if a angry passenger pulls on a clip-on tie, it just comes off, and it's a federal offense.
So, it may be that pilots do take off their ties, while on the flight deck, since it's very easy to put them back on.
Also, AA and Eagle now have navy blue leather bomber jackets that can be worn, instead of the uniform coat under a trench coat/wool overcoat, during cold weather months.
FlyMIA From United States, joined Jun 2001, 3843 posts, RR: 5 Reply 7, posted (3 years 8 months 8 hours ago) and read 7301 times:
Quoting Scalebuilder (Reply 5): Quoting Luisca (Reply 2):
I personally like the whole aura that sorrounds a pilots uniform. Good for getting chicks too.
Can't deny that a certain degree of necessary "authority" comes with the current uniform. The tie and the shoulder wings make you "captain like".
Pilots need to look professional and look like they have some authority because they do. What about a Cruise ship captain could you imagine one just walking around in Shorts and a Shirt. It also makes the pilots indentified easier and shows that they are crew. The Uniform is nessary. There pilots not cab drivers or office assitants. Nothing against those jobs, even some cab drivers wear nice clothes. Pilots need uniforms that look professional and with some authority. Just like I hate cops that wear shorts unless they are bike cops or the WN FAs which wear shorts.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
Ckfred From United States, joined Apr 2001, 3038 posts, RR: 2 Reply 8, posted (3 years 8 months 8 hours ago) and read 7291 times:
Scalebuilder:
I friend of mine is a pilot with AA. He has been told many times by his superiors that if a passenger yanks his tie off, then he should radio ahead to have the police meet the flight upon landing and remove that passenger.
And the policy existed long before September 11th.
JayDavis From United States, joined Jan 2001, 1989 posts, RR: 24 Reply 9, posted (3 years 8 months 7 hours ago) and read 7224 times:
I used to work for Eva Airways and one of the captains of the MD-11F aircraft that when they took off, the entire crew changed into sweats or pajamas.
They have NO passengers on board, at all. And then when they get ready to land, they put the uniform back on.
Yes, I agree, that it makes the pilot look more professional, similar to how attorney's are dressed in a court of law. Yet, I can't imagine how miserable those guys and gals are after wearing that uniform on a very hot and humid day, sitting on the ramp at IAH for example, with the temperature at about 100 or so, with about a 80% humidity level. Not fun at all.
Faenum From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 35 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (3 years 8 months 3 hours ago) and read 7129 times:
Quoting Luisca (Reply 2): I personally like the whole aura that sorrounds a pilots uniform.
It is not all glamour, whatever the style of uniform. Last year, a First Officer I know was saying goodbye to disembarking passengers at LHR when an airsick young woman lost her in flight meal all over his shirt and trousers. For the next sector he wore a clean shirt (with a clip-on tie, as mentioned in other posts) and the company gave permission for him to fly in jeans. The captain did the walk round. The crew hotel in STO was contacted to arrange overnight cleaning of the soiled uniform.
Motopolitico From United States, joined Dec 2005, 168 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (3 years 8 months ago) and read 7051 times:
Quoting Scalebuilder (Thread starter): I would think most airlines could come up with a presentable uniform for their pilots without the tight-buttoned shirt and the tie that goes with it?
People always complain about wearing ties and shirts with collars; they can be quite comfortable if you get the right size. I have never been comfortable in a GA cockpit, but i'd have thought that airliners would have proper climate controls on the flight deck.
Freqflyr From United States, joined Mar 2006, 13 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (3 years 8 months ago) and read 7042 times:
Did anyone every fly with the Delta Capt who wore a train engineers cap(blue strip etc) while flying? Pre 9-11 when the cockpit door stayed open during taxi etc I had seen him a number of times...always got a kickout of that.
ZB330 From Netherlands, joined Aug 2005, 79 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (3 years 8 months ago) and read 7029 times:
No problem at all wearing the uniform, it can be comfortable even on longhaul flights.
But as other people already mentioned the moment the flightdeck door closes the tie is removed. Whenever we leave the flightdeck during the flight we just put it back on again. And if you don't leave the flightdeck during the flight then you put the tie back on just prior to landing.
Have you ever thought about male cabin crew? They wear their uniform the whole flight and have to keep their tei on. So as flightcrew we can't really complain.
CX flyboy From Hong Kong SAR, PRC, joined Dec 1999, 5572 posts, RR: 61 Reply 14, posted (3 years 8 months ago) and read 7014 times:
Well, our cockpits are not hot and sweaty because we have a very good climate control system. Whether we take our ties off is personal preference. We have clip ons or proper ties. Some guys take their ties off, some just loosen their ties. Some just leave them as they are.
As for getting changed...perhaps on our freighter flights, but I have never seen any pilot from my company do it.
MiCorazonAzul From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 15, posted (3 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6880 times:
I personally find the white shirt/black pants VERY boring. I LOVE the uniform our pilots have. The blue look looks very sharp and updated. It looks great and of course most of our pilots have the bod to compliment the perfect uniform....
Btw, I think its great that some pilots change during long flights. Besides, who knows what else those pilots do behind that closed door.....or maybe that's just me dreaming?
Bennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 4548 posts, RR: 2 Reply 16, posted (3 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6867 times:
Pilots need to look professional and look like they have some authority because they do. What about a Cruise ship captain could you imagine one just walking around in Shorts and a Shirt. It also makes the pilots indentified easier and shows that they are crew. The Uniform is nessary. There pilots not cab drivers or office assitants. Nothing against those jobs, even some cab drivers wear nice clothes. Pilots need uniforms that look professional and with some authority. Just like I hate cops that wear shorts unless they are bike cops or the WN FAs which wear shorts
I was recently on a ship cruising down the Nile.
Seeing the Captain on the bridge wearing a Galabaya and turbin was a bit of a shock.
Byronsterk From Netherlands, joined Jul 2005, 155 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (3 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6824 times:
Who sais pilot's can't unbutton their shirts when it's very hot? as long as they button them back as soon as they have to interact with passengers... which they almost never do
Helicopters can't fly, there just so ugly the earth repells them...
Scalebuilder From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 18, posted (3 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 6673 times:
Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 16): Pilots need to look professional and look like they have some authority because they do. What about a Cruise ship captain could you imagine one just walking around in Shorts and a Shirt. It also makes the pilots indentified easier and shows that they are crew. The Uniform is nessary.
I am not at all disagreeing on the uniform, and I didn't necessarily have a pair of shorts and a shirt in mind either as a replacement.
I was thinking of the pilots and their comfort (and the rest of the cabin crew for that matter) just like we think of our own comfort as passengers. Reading travel tips for long haul flights it is always recommended to wear loose clothing that maximize circulation in the body. I can't imagine that comfort should be regarded as any different for the crew that work these flights either. I think they deserve to be comfortable too, and also keeping in mind that these are professionals on duty with an important job to do.
The uniform is essential and certainly an inherent part of the airline's identity. No denying that. I'm just raising the question of the prospect of uniforms becoming more business casual that could increase comfort, as the rest of the business world has undisputedly taken that route to the benefit of all of those professionally involved with it. Fifteen or twenty years ago you would see all kinds of ties on passengers occupying the business class cabin; today there are hardly any.
Pilots and flight crew of any airline enjoy my absolutely highest professional respect for what they do. If they were allowed to dress down one notch like the rest of the business world to increase their own comfort on the job, it would take nothing away from the respect that I have for them.
Type-rated From United States, joined Sep 1999, 2238 posts, RR: 28 Reply 19, posted (3 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 6646 times:
I think that the uniform is part of the tradition, it carries over from the maritime uniforms of years ago. It exemplfies authority, after all do you want a guy in a leisure suit flying one of your $35 million dollar pieces of equipment?
And it extends that authority to passengers in terms of trust. Passengers are trusting their pilot with their lives and they must look the part.
As Motopolitico stated as long as you have a uniform that fits well you should be quite comfortable. Usually you get a choice of uniform shirts. I found the ones with a high cotton content are the most comfortable, but you have to press them. But done right they look very sharp and are comfortable to wear.
While we are talking about pilot uniforms, we may as well mention pilot grooming. When I first started flying for a living, we were told no sideburns below the ears, definitely no moustaches (makes people think you are seedy, or untrustworthy as I was told by the company). I think they have relaxed that as I have seen a few pilots with moustaches along the way. Due to the small size of the cockpit, pilots usually take an extra effort to maintain good grooming.
Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
Scalebuilder From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 20, posted (3 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 6573 times:
Quoting Type-rated (Reply 19): Due to the small size of the cockpit, pilots usually take an extra effort to maintain good grooming.
Sounds like a sensible policy. Are there additional guidelines mandated by the airline here? You mentioned no mustache and no sideburns. I do get these ones. However, out of curiousity, what other standards do airlines require their cockpit staff to adhere too?
Quoting Type-rated (Reply 19): As Motopolitico stated as long as you have a uniform that fits well you should be quite comfortable. Usually you get a choice of uniform shirts. I found the ones with a high cotton content are the most comfortable, but you have to press them. But done right they look very sharp and are comfortable to wear.
I have learned a lot reading through these posts. It has been very educational. It seems to me that while pilots are serving in the cockpit, they can pretty much run their own show and what they decide wear (or not) during that flight. Good for them. Pilot uniforms comfortable? Super! They just don't look that way. Total misperception on my behalf.
I just happen to be that frequent passenger sitting in the departure lounge witnessing both passengers and crew come by. I am usually impressed by the look and impression of any flight crew.
CRGsFuture From United States, joined Jan 2006, 536 posts, RR: 1 Reply 22, posted (3 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 6501 times:
I think no matter what, a pilot's uniform will rarely change. The uniform througout history has shown three principles to the people that look on. They commander respect, show authoratative power, and give the passanger the perception that they are very skilled at what they do. That's why judges wear robes, lawyers wear suites, and other jobs that still have a formal dress. I wear one to school and I feel very comfortable in it, I even dance in it when I come home from school. Uniforms should never go away from the pilot ranks because it takes away that aura, that tradition of respect that you show these pilots.
Flying you to your destination; your girlfriend to her dreams.
Scalebuilder From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 23, posted (3 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 6475 times:
Quoting CRGsFuture (Reply 22): I think no matter what, a pilot's uniform will rarely change. The uniform througout history has shown three principles to the people that look on. They commander respect, show authoratative power, and give the passanger the perception that they are very skilled at what they do.
You know what CRGsFuture?
Thanks for a very wise post.
You're right. The pilot's uniform is probably fine as it is, and in many ways it does represent an institution respected by and also providing reassurance to the traveling public. We have heard from several pilots in the past two days, and they wear their uniform, in its current form, with both pride and comfort. Who can argue with that?
Being an outsider, and without the "inside" knowledge, it was too tempting to ask the questions .
Mikkel777 From Norway, joined Oct 2002, 370 posts, RR: 1 Reply 24, posted (3 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 6451 times:
The good thing about wearing a uniform to work is that you never have to worry about what to wear the next day. No need to go shopping for something classy, fancy and appropriate, just wear the uniform and you are good to go no matter what. How it feels outside the aircraft at 100F is a totally different matter
Wukka From United States, joined Jan 2005, 953 posts, RR: 25 Reply 25, posted (3 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 6390 times:
Quoting FlyMIA (Reply 7): What about a Cruise ship captain could you imagine one just walking around in Shorts and a Shirt.
Gavin McLeod looked rather smart in his epaulettes and shorts. So did Isaac and the Doc, for that matter.
We can agree to disagree.
26 GoBoeing: Though I do not yet fly for an airline, I do fly for pay and a black tie is part of the dress code. I recently purchased a zipper tie so that I can t
27 Turnit56N: Haven't heard that reaction before. I love my zipper ties, and you can't really tell the difference between them and a conventional tie. They allow y
28 BOAC707: A sharp and crisp uniform looks not only professional, but it instills a sense of confidence in the passengers. It might be a very old school mind set
29 CosmicCruiser: Come on, a pair of dress slacks with a short or long sleeved shirt unbuttoned at the neck is not miserable; if it is you need a job at a nudist colon
30 Cellardoor: That is stupid. I have been flying for FL since June 04 and only last week found out about the zipper ties when the captain was showing his to my bud
31 Scalebuilder: Maybe you misunderstood me. That unbuttoned shirt by the neck, with those pair of dress slacks, would look far more comfortable than the tight button
32 Knightsofmalta: What, you mean besides picking their nose and reading dirty magazines...?
33 MD11Engineer: First, I've seen many pilots of a wellknown American based international cargo airline taking off their uniforms as soon as they are on board and the
34 Cedars747: I think the same ,plus i guess it's a psychologic issue like to feel relaxed in any circumstance Greetings from Norway Alex!!!
35 JFKLGANYC: I can confirm most of the posts above. 1. Most guys do wear a clip on tie. I don't because I think it's nerdy. But most do it for a safety standpoint.
37 CosmicCruiser: I believe this originated yrs. ago when a tight seal of the O2 mask around the face would not be achieved when pressure breathing. I don't think Fede
39 Cedars747: Hahahaha......you see Scalebuilder,read my post once more
40 FlyingHippo: I saw a couple of pilots wearing them on my JFK-LAX, then SAN-STL-LGA flights last week. They look AWSOME!!! (The FO from SAN-STL was female and she
41 Jamesbuk: Someone was saying about the grooming of a pilot and as they have rules for that what are the rules for piercings and tattoo's Rgds --James--
42 Scalebuilder: Surely I respect that everyone deserves to maximize their own comfort on the job. Though I can't deny that this looks a little "strained" to me. I be
43 Scalebuilder: I can't imagine that you can show off your tattoo or your piercings here in America working for any airline. It might be more liberal in Europe. I wo
44 Checksixx: You wern't aware that ANY unwanted contact was assault?
45 Scalebuilder: Surely I understand that any direct confrontational contact between a cockpit crew member and an outsider should equal that of assault. And it should
48 CosmicCruiser: I tend to agree. The leather jackets give you a casual jacket to wear on the layover, providing the wings come off, but in reality in those typical E
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