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British Airways Clarifies Long-haul Fleet Renewal  
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 17155 times:

interesting to see the planes listed, but at the end of the day, I doubt they will go with the A346 when the 777-300ER is available...but the 747-8 sounds very promising and its interesting to note that they are stating that they will not go for both the B747-8 and A380 (at this point in time)....

its also interesting to note that they are very interested in the 787-10 and 787-9

fair use excerpt...

"British Airways denied it is at an advanced stage of negotiations with Boeing to acquire up to 20 777-300ERs that would replace some early delivery 747s from 2008........The airline is considering all possible types, including the A380, A340-600 and 747-8, to replace its 747s, and the 787 or A350 to succeed the 767.............He also revealed it "very much pushed Boeing to produce the 747-8.""

full article at...

http://www.atwonline.com/news/story.html?storyID=4356


"Up the Irons!"
85 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMolykote From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1343 posts, RR: 15
Reply 1, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 17129 times:
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I read this as a positive for Boeing.


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User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 2, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 17091 times:

Quoting Molykote (Reply 1):
I read this as a positive for Boeing.

so do I, but obviously BA want to get the best deal out of Boeing, and it seems as if the A380 is out of contention with BA for now........

I think the 777-300ER and 747-8 will look amazing in Boeing colours, heck....I think all planes look amazing in Boeing colours... biggrin 


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"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineFlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15
Reply 3, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 17091 times:

I'm confused myself though, it doesn't seem to make much sense to be buying both 777-300ERs and 747-8's, unless you just wanted a few 747-8's for very high density routes. Honestly though, I don't see them buying A340 or A380. A350 I'm sure they'll give a good look at to replace 767, but the 787 may just have a slight advantage.


"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
User currently offlineManni From South Korea, joined Nov 2001, 4221 posts, RR: 22
Reply 4, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 17058 times:

Quoting Molykote (Reply 1):
I read this as a positive for Boeing.

BA is an airline that operates more than 100 Boeing widebody aircraft, including 42 777, and it is considering the A350, A346 and A380!?! This order is Boeings to loose to Toulouse  Wink Definitely not something the crowd in Seattle likes to hear. Airbus will do wathever possible to get this order, so will Boeing, and in the end if it goes to Boeing. Boeing will be happy if they can make money on the deal. If they take Airbus, publicity wise it will be a great deal for Airbus, but likely, as with Boeing, with marginal profit. Whichever manufacturer they will go for, one thing is already written in the stars... BA will get a great deal.



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User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21583 posts, RR: 59
Reply 5, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 17041 times:

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 3):
'm confused myself though, it doesn't seem to make much sense to be buying both 777-300ERs and 747-8's, unless you just wanted a few 747-8's for very high density routes. Honestly though, I don't see them buying A340 or A380. A350 I'm sure they'll give a good look at to replace 767, but the 787 may just have a slight advantage.

The 773ER+748i is completely consistent with statements from BA in the past months.

They have stated that they don't want to take delivery of planes until 2008 at the earliest. They did buy purchase rights to 773ERs from 2009, but that is not "advanced negotiations" just holding spots. The 748i won't EIS until 2011, so they are not forced to do the same thing there, and can announce a joint order later in the year for both types, converting those held 2009 slots for the 773ER to orders.

Further, they have stated that they are happy with the size of the 744, but since there is no direct replacement in the future for this plane, they will have to replace them with what is available.

2x744 = 1x773ER+1x748i. 380 is too big for them at this time, and that has been clear for quite a while based on their statements. As the dominant airline at LHR, they don't need the A380 for slot reasons. By giving up most of the Kangaroo to QF, they don't need the A380 for that. They don't need it for NRT as traffic is falling off on that route. Don't need it for South Africa. Don't need it for America, as they prefer to run 777s to 20 cities in North America and the Carribean vs. A380s to 3 airports. Don't need it for FRA or CDG. Maybe could use it for HKG and SIN, but honestly, the 748i will suit them fine as it offers modest growth over the 744s they run now.

In my opinion, the A380 is important for LHR for a lot of airlines as the market is defined. But not for BA.

So then you are talking about 748i instead, and the family familiarity the 773ER brings with the 772 compared to the 346, as well as the economic advantage, can't be ignored, even if the 773ER and 748i both only run GEs, BA will have to look past that.

I could only see them flying the 346 if they also take the 359. But I think the 748i is a given. And the 773ER is a good bet.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 6, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 17041 times:

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 3):
I'm confused myself though, it doesn't seem to make much sense to be buying both 777-300ERs and 747-8's, unless you just wanted a few 747-8's for very high density routes. Honestly though, I don't see them buying A340 or A380. A350 I'm sure they'll give a good look at to replace 767, but the 787 may just have a slight advantage.

actually, it makes very good sense, its a more conservative way to expand without overkill........

like EK says....."if you build the 787-10 we'll buy it" (IMHO-that is what they are saying to Boeing) I think BA is basically saying the same thing......

the A340 is definitely out and the A380 isn't looking too strong, especially if its true that "very much pushed Boeing to produce the 747-8." is true......

the A350 doesn't seem to be a strong contender...we'll see..



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineRedChili From Norway, joined Jul 2005, 2305 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 17017 times:

The way that I read it, BA is saying that they will get three sizes of airplanes, and that the major choices will be between:
A380 or B748
A346 or B773ER
A350 or B789/-10
plus an option to add more B772s.

I was surprised to see that a major 777 operator like BA is considering the A346. I suppose that this part of the negotiations are more or less to be polite and consider the Airbus product alongside the Boeing product.

The following sentence from the article, "He also revealed it 'very much pushed Boeing to produce the 747-8,'" seems to indicate that the B748 has an edge over the A380 at BA.

At the same time, the following sentence, "He stressed, however, that the fleet renewal decision depends on... realization of a 10% operating margin in FY08," indicates that BA may wait until 2009 before choosing between the A380/B748 and A350/B787. But the 10 777-options will, of course, have to be decided before then, as those options are for delivery slots between 2008-2010.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 2):
I think the 777-300ER and 747-8 will look amazing in Boeing colours,

I suppose you mean BA colors.



Top 10 airplanes: B737, T154, B747, IL96, T134, IL62, A320, MD80, B757, DC10
User currently offlineRedChili From Norway, joined Jul 2005, 2305 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 16996 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 5):
They did buy purchase rights to 773ERs from 2009,

If you read the article, Boyle says clearly that these options are for any 777 model. He clearly denies that BA has any options specifically for the 773ER.



Top 10 airplanes: B737, T154, B747, IL96, T134, IL62, A320, MD80, B757, DC10
User currently offlineThebry From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 375 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 16942 times:
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Quoting RedChili (Reply 7):
I was surprised to see that a major 777 operator like BA is considering the A346. I suppose that this part of the negotiations are more or less to be polite and consider the Airbus product alongside the Boeing product.

Either that, or they're taking the cash-back option Airbus has been offering. Lots of savings up front (sortof like US automotive manufacturers have done for years).

In my opinion, Boeing shouldn't be daunted by the prospect that BA is considering the A346 over the B773ER. It's got to be a bluff. BA can't possibly believe that having this inefficient beast (compared to the 777) in their livery will do much for profit (fuel, maintenance, etc.).

In my opinion, In the unlikely event BA does decide to go A346, they should lease them (of course forefeting the cash back offer).


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 10, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 16913 times:

Quoting RedChili (Reply 7):
I was surprised to see that a major 777 operator like BA is considering the A346. I suppose that this part of the negotiations are more or less to be polite and consider the Airbus product alongside the Boeing product.

I'm sure you seriously don't think they would consider switching such a massive fleet...think of the costs associated with it, not to mention (mx, pilot retraining/hiring costs, ect), the 777-300ER is knocking the tails off of the A346 in sales (due to economics, etc.), and recent Airbus comments of the A340 possibly becoming a niche plane certainly doesn't exude a lot of confidence...but BA have to play their part...

Quoting RedChili (Reply 7):
I suppose you mean BA colors.

yes..thank you very much.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 5):

I could only see them flying the 346 if they also take the 359.

see above, too cost prohibitive, and if anything this argues well for the 787, as BA don't even need the early slots for the 787.......

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 5):
Further, they have stated that they are happy with the size of the 744, but since there is no direct replacement in the future for this plane, they will have to replace them with what is available.



Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 6):
actually, it makes very good sense, its a more conservative way to expand without overkill........



[Edited 2006-03-15 07:56:42]


"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineScotron11 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 1178 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 16842 times:

Quoting RedChili (Reply 7):

At the same time, the following sentence, "He stressed, however, that the fleet renewal decision depends on... realization of a 10% operating margin in FY08,

What he actually said was: however, the fleet renewal decision depends on the fulfillment of a "triple package" encompassing a successful conclusion to ongoing pension deficit negotiations, implementation of the £450 million ($777.2 million) in cost reductions outlined in the 2006-08 business plan and realization of a 10% operating margin in FY08. "If we don't make progress on all these topics, there will be no fleet expansion," he stated. "If we are not in a position to make the investment in confidence, we will not make the investment. We don't have the state willing to lend a helping hand, nor do we have Chapter 11 available to us."

I think the main one is the pension deficit. If they successfully work that one out, then they will probably "firm" up the options this year. Some reports say 10, this is the first I've heard of 20. Does anyone know how many 744's BA had delivered in 1989? And how many 767's delivered in 1990?


User currently offline777STL From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3768 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 16816 times:

Quoting Thebry (Reply 9):
n my opinion, Boeing shouldn't be daunted by the prospect that BA is considering the A346 over the B773ER. It's got to be a bluff. BA can't possibly believe that having this inefficient beast (compared to the 777) in their livery will do much for profit (fuel, maintenance, etc.).

BA's doing exactly what BA should be doing, playing both sides against each other. I don't think Airbus realistically has much of a chance, obviously BA isn't going to let that on to Boeing, even if it's quite obvious.



PHX based
User currently offlineRedChili From Norway, joined Jul 2005, 2305 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 16726 times:

Quoting Scotron11 (Reply 11):
I think the main one is the pension deficit. If they successfully work that one out, then they will probably "firm" up the options this year.

What you state here is not consistent with what he said. Boyle specifically said, "If we don't make progress on all these topics, there will be no fleet expansion," as you yourself also quoted. I cannot understand how they can manage to get a 10 percent operating margin for FY08 already this year.



Top 10 airplanes: B737, T154, B747, IL96, T134, IL62, A320, MD80, B757, DC10
User currently offlineGkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24964 posts, RR: 56
Reply 14, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 16686 times:

Personally, I think BA will stay Airbus for short haul, and Boeing for long haul.


When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineCarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2978 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 16619 times:

Not to be overlooked is the fact that A346 wings are made in the UK, and RR engines on the A346. Same line of thought on the A380 as well. Though I am not sure how much of an effect 'homemade product' has within BA culture.
777s & 748s have nowhere near the UK-made content, but I would be curious what major UK suppliers are involved in both programs.


User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 7002 posts, RR: 63
Reply 16, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 16608 times:

Quoting Carpethead (Reply 15):
Though I am not sure how much of an effect 'homemade product' has within BA culture.

Very little, I would guess. The A343 wings are also made in the UK but BA still chose 777s - and with GE rather than RR engines!


User currently offlineStarGoldLHR From Heard and McDonald Islands, joined Feb 2004, 1529 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 16355 times:

Given that BA has a lot of pro-american influencial money men behind in from back of the grey old 1980s BA will never be seen dead ordering Airbus...it wouldnt do to upset our american friends.

The A320 is only there to prevent people saying it too loudly.

If I were Airbus, I'd publically withdraw and let Boeing screw BA on price... after all BA's never done Airbus any favours.



So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
User currently offlineGkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24964 posts, RR: 56
Reply 18, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 16346 times:

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 17):
after all BA's never done Airbus any favours.

What about that rather large A320 family order?



When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineScotron11 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 1178 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 16209 times:

[

Quoting RedChili (Reply 13):

What you state here is not consistent with what he said. Boyle specifically said, "If we don't make progress on all these topics, there will be no fleet expansion,"

Yes, I know. But the main topic is their pension deficit. If, as reports indicate, BA can get some agreement later this month on that, then I see no reason for them to have to wait until 2008 to firm up this order. BTW, if Airbus is in the frame, why is their options for Boeings?


User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 7002 posts, RR: 63
Reply 20, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 16171 times:

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 18):
What about that rather large A320 family order?



Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 17):
The A320 is only there to prevent people saying it too loudly.

I don't agree with him but there's your answer.


User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 21, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 16159 times:

Like you say - the A346 will be a long shot but lets cut through the rhetoric, and have a look at some of the facts that work in the A346s favour. For what its worth, I think she has a ten percent chance, no better.

Lets assume the A346HGW is the one on offer:

* Superior cargo uplift to the 773ER.

* Airbus need this deal, and BA can get an extremely attractive pricetag per airframe out of them for this reason - information on past deals shows that this has been a deal-maker in the past, because Airbus is able to undercut Boeing. We must assume the A346HGW will be available cheaper per airframe than the 773ER.

*Willie Walsh is a big Airbus man.

* The A346 is RR Trent 500 powered, and BA already have the MX, parts, and training infrastructure in place from the Trent 800s on the 777s. BA has the same in place for the GE90 as well, though.

* Whilst the 777 certainly has the edge in terms of crew commonality, the A346 needs only a short conversion from an Airbus A32X type rating, so its not totally unknown territory for them. BA seems to have an extremely good relationship with Airbus.

* No ETOPS restrictions on the type, so total freedom to use anywhere in the BA Network. Granted, BA dont have many ETOPS restricted routes, but its a small plus. The A346HGW has the range to do any current BA 744 route non-stop at MTOW.

* There is a (real or perceived) "Britishness/European-ness" about the A346 (the wings and engines mostly), and there may be a temptation to "buy from home" and to avoid any possible press fallout over a deal with the US. The US Government, and the US in general has never been so unpopular as they are here right now, and buying American may see some unwanted press reaction. Politically, buying American is quite sensitive, as if the press get hold of it and spin it badly, it will seem like more unwanted toadying up to the US, and BA could have a problem.

* Much as there will be intense political pressure from the US Government and various heads of trade and big business to buy Boeing, there will be similar pressure from this side of the Atlantic.

* Boeing will be fully expecting BA to go with the 773ER, and probably think that a BA order for the A346 is extremely unlikely. They may already regard this order as "in the bag" and Airbus could exploit this. They have done this before.

* The A346HGW, we are told, has improved performance over the baseline A346, and this will erode the advantages held by the 773ER. The A346HGW will never be a 773ER beater, but the HGW model will bring it closer than it is now, and the gap at present has been overstated on here by some.

* Airbus reportedly has a cashback scheme in place for the fuel burn misses. Stuff like this is music to shareholder's ears, as it means that the A346 has a guaranteed revenue if the initial fuel burn differential is written off.

* Many people believe the A346 is quieter and more comfortable in the cabin than the 777.

* The A346HGW is a far more mature beast that the overweight and MX-intensive early models, and the majority of the bugs and issues will have been ironed out. It seems to me that the A346 has been judged by the early issues it encountered, and the improvements made since then have been largely ignored. We must assume that the 2008-vintage A346HGW is an even more improved model.

* BA is about to place an order for a large number of Airbus narrowbodies. A combination deal, as Airbus has shown willingness in the past to do, looks likely to be offered. Indeed, many analysts, myself included, feel that BA will buy the A380 eventually, and including some earlier A380 delivery slot reservations free of charge, with a frozen price etc free of charge will be another sweetener, we feel.

* Airbus can supply the A346HGW as soon as BA want it, whereas the 777 line has very tight availability up to and including 2008 - everyone wants the 773ER and getting into the game late will mean supply issues.



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineAtmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 37
Reply 22, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 16131 times:

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 17):
Given that BA has a lot of pro-american influencial money men behind in from back of the grey old 1980s BA will never be seen dead ordering Airbus...it wouldnt do to upset our american friends.

Well at least some of the orders BA made were linked to RR engines being made an option on Boeing frames. That appears to be the case with RR on the 757. Without that, the UK government might have had a much more difficult time nursing RR back to health.



ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 7002 posts, RR: 63
Reply 23, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 16131 times:

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 21):
BA is about to place an order for a large number of Airbus narrowbodies.

Really?! How large?

As for your detailed analysis of the possibility of BA buying the A346, I think there's a lot of truth is what you say. But, like you, I wouldn't bet my house on it!


User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 24, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 16096 times:

Quoting PM (Reply 23):
Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 21):
BA is about to place an order for a large number of Airbus narrowbodies.

Really?! How large?

As for your detailed analysis of the possibility of BA buying the A346, I think there's a lot of truth is what you say. But, like you, I wouldn't bet my house on it

LGW Euro fleet to be replaced over the next few years. Its an open secret they will go for the A32X.

As for the A346 - no i wouldnt bet my house on it either. Like I said, it will be a tiny chance that Airbus can do something amazing but i'd be amazed if they did.

Anyway - the options are out on the 773ER so i'd be VERY surprised if they did go A346, but as I stated above, i could see why if they did order it.



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
25 BestWestern : Chris, as ever an excellent overview. BA is probably the best run carrier globally, with a superb board and management team. They will make the decisi
26 PM : OK. I hadn't heard that. 319s and 320s, I suppose. Any idea how many?
27 CHRISBA777ER : Totally agreed.
28 Atmx2000 : Would BA configure the A346 with the various lower lobe options like crew rests and lavs to increase cabin space? What would the cargo space be like
29 BestWestern : BA will be moving to T5 at Heathrow before then. This is a massive task, and they will not be complicating it even further with new aircraft. They kn
30 Gkirk : Agreed about the 772 and 773. Disagree with the A380 though. I think BA will probably go with what they are trying now, more frequency with smaller a
31 CHRISBA777ER : The key issue as to why the US Majors are struggling. I hope BA have taken note.
32 BestWestern : With what Heathrow Slots? This works on high density short routes (Including the relatively short JFK LHR), but BA have many routes that dont need hi
33 Atmx2000 : The key reason why US majors are suffering is high levels of domestic competition coupled with high fuel prices and high labor prices leaving little
34 BestWestern : This is yet to be prooven. Margins on intercontinental routes for north american carriers are wafer thin at the moment. Smaller jets, which are more
35 Concorde001 : By 2010/2011 LHR should begin mixed mode runway operations which will free up many slots - about a 20% increase! Though BA won't get all of them or e
36 Jonathan-l : How about aircraft merit?
37 Post contains images Gkirk : The B73G and A320 family are on the same level of merit, so lets not try go down that road I could see them decreasing frequency on domestic flights
38 Gkirk : I should add, IMO, I don't think we will see BA order any new long haul a/c until T5 is well up and running, the 744s and 772s aren't that old yet any
39 SunriseValley : Sept 2009 according to the Boeing web site. Also Boeing are working at achieving significant noise reduction on the 747-8 which has to be of great in
40 FLALEFTY : I think that about sums it up! BA already has a modern fleet, so they are really in no rush to make a decision. When they are ready to buy (and that
41 VV701 : You only have to look at how BA configure their long haul aircraft cabins to see that they are not interested in 'just capacity'. The only BA routes
42 ChiGB1973 : I think it would be more appropriate to compare the 346HGW with the 747-400 or -800 than with the 773. How come this A319/320 order is in the bag for
43 Glom : It would be worse if the press got wind of Airbus subsidising BA to pollute more than they need to.
44 Post contains images Jacobin777 : that would be asinine......one never knows what happens, and BA do have a large Airbus fleet (albeit its short-haul)...regardless....if Airbus can Bo
45 Post contains images Gkirk : Wrong
46 KrisYYZ : Boeing for up to 10 777s for delivery from the end of 2008 through to 2010," Planning Director Robert Boyle told ATWOnline yesterday, noting that at t
47 CHRISBA777ER : Jacobin - agree with most of what you say - I was just trying to provide the other side of the argument. A-net gets very boring with a lot of "BA must
48 Timboflier215 : exactly. BA will be looking at all angles before 'just' signing for boeing. no-one spends billions of pounds lightly, its a massive investment, and t
49 Post contains images Jacobin777 : I don't follow..... got ya.... .......
50 GDB : Do not underestimate the potential problems that 'fixing' the BA pension scheme could cause-if the solution is what is rumoured, pilots will NOT like
51 Gkirk : They've just ordered some new A320 family a/c. and still had some on order anyway I think
52 BlueSky1976 : None of the US carriers will have to be pressured into buying Boeing. Days when the sales team from Chicago would ignore RFPs are long gone. Besides,
53 GDB : Wrong I'm afraid Blue Sky, that's the media overkill for you, sure BA did not like Maggie doing what she did, but the reason for dumping those absurd
54 Travelin man : I would think that if BA does not order the A380, that it would be huge blow to that program. After all, BA is a long-haul carrier operating out of a
55 PM : Mrs T made a celebrated objection to the World Tails but do you know for sure that was why they were dropped? Probably not. In fact, there were many
56 FlyDreamliner : AF discovered how efficient the A340 is...... please notice they now have a 777 fleet. If you look at 777-300ER vs A340-600 sales in general, you will
57 Ikramerica : True. Could theoretically be for 772LR, but can't see them really needing this plane with their location. I guess it could be for more 772ERs, but I
58 Post contains images Jacobin777 : I was referring to widebody.....but yes, they are ordering some smaller birds.. ...as I said, BA don't listen to political pressure, they are a publi
59 Glom : I doubt Maggie had much to do with it. There were two main problem with the world tails: 1) it's expensive to give a different tail to every aircraft
60 PM : But they looked FANTASTIC!
61 KrisYYZ : The ETOPS 330min rating would put that argument to rest, as a 330min rated Twin could fly anywhere it wants even polar and Antarctic ops. KrisYYZ
62 Post contains links Atmx2000 : I don't know. BA's purchase of the 757 was linked to RR getting on the 757. Industrial and economic politics were a big part of the equation. Had the
63 Kaitak744 : Also note, that the 747-8 could fit in almost all heavy gates at T5 in Heathrow. However, the A380 can only fit in 14 gates (once the 2nd satelite is
64 Post contains links and images HighFlyer9790 : That is really great news! I hope BA goes for an all boeing renewal. the 747-8 and 787 would suit them well, as already does the 777. I hope they do n
65 Post contains links and images Jacobin777 : the 747-8 is a 747....so if BA order them, you'll be seeing them for decades to come.... I have to admit, I love seeing BA's 747-400's.. MyAviation.n
66 Manni : No BA is not a longhaul carrier. BA has domestic, shorthaul, mediumhaul, longhaul flights and a huge amount slots at LHR. THE longhaul carrier at LHR
67 Post contains images Kaitak744 : Well, you say every carrier will operate A380s to LHR? Emirates won't.  . Seriously.[Edited 2006-03-16 07:33:38]
68 JGPH1A : That's probably the one route where the A380 would make perfect sense for BA. Passenger demand is for night flights in both directions, plus the hot-
69 PM : Fascinating article. Thanks. Off topic but here are some jaw-dropping quotes to make all those who claim to be able to see into the future exercise a
70 Atmx2000 : The majority of BA's 50 757 orders came later, well after the initial order, so I guess they were quite pleased with its performance in service. Anyw
71 PM : If it worked to Boeing's and BA's advantage, it was perhaps even more important to RR. In the early '80s they were in intensive care with only a smal
72 Atmx2000 : Which is what I was hinting at. The UK placed a higher priority on getting RR onto Boeing airframes, to access its large customer base. The 757 and t
73 Columba : Don�t think so, if so you would have seen a A300 order when it came out. In the beginning of Airbus, BA obviousley was not a big fan of them. La
74 NA : 747-8Is and 787 make sense together as they´ll represent the latest in engine technology, one step ahead of the 777. They could bypass the 773ER and
75 FlyDreamliner : So far as I've heard, only the GEnx engine is offered on 747-8. Maybe if the Trent 1000's are offered, they'll look at it. British won't buy anything
76 NA : So we won´t see 773ERs as well, as they only have GEs. Ok, then its A346s? I don´t think its that easy. Remember the first batch of 772s of BA also
77 Trex8 : except a bunch of 741s, 737s, A320s and their first batch of 777s!
78 PM : Let me correct my own dumb mistake. In the timescale of the article in question BA was still wholly owned by the government. I was wrong to state abo
79 Post contains images David L : BA was privatised in 1987 so would have been state-owned when the first 757s were ordered. Further to the explanations of how that wasn't the case, i
80 PM : I just got in ahead of you! (But wasn't it 1985?)
81 GDB : This stuff about the 1978 purchase of 757's leaves out one very important point, yes getting R/R onto them was important, but BA and HM Government ign
82 Atmx2000 : In the article I linked, it mentions Boeing offered the manufacture of the wing to BAe, but as a subcontracter, but didn't find BAe's pricing to be l
83 CHRISBA777ER : Remember who maintains almost all the BA Mainline fleet engines? GE in Wales. They even do the RB211s!!!
84 Tigerotor77W : I'll bite on this one as well -- if the Walsh comments about buying the 773ER are true, then clearly BA is going outside of Rolls for its engine base
85 VV701 : Margaret Thatcher formed her first government following the May 1979 election. In July 1979 she announced that BA would be privatised and from then (
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