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A380 Emergency Evacuation Test Story  
User currently offlineDougloid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 13182 times:

Just looking on this and I found what looked like an interesting article on Flight International this morning, only to find that it had been blocked from access by a robot.txt file. This I found out by plugging the url into the Wayback Machine.

The two lines in the google search say it's 11 days away and they will test for 750 passengers.

Anyone got any fresh information on this?

101 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 13128 times:

They're probably updating the website, it may pop up in the next couple of hours.

User currently offlineAir380 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 12447 times:

The A 380 emergency evacuation is scheduled for this weekend with over 800 people according to a German magazine, "Focus".

User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 12389 times:

This has topic has been extensively discussed in a couple of recent threads:

<
A380 Evacuation Test - 26th March (by Scbriml Feb 20 2006 in Civil Aviation)>

<
A380 Evac Trials Next Week (by Finkenwerder Feb 25 2006 in Civil Aviation)>


AFAIK, the item Dougloid found earlier this week has not yet appeared on FI's website. The best avaiable information seems to be that the emergency evacuation test will take place at XFW using MSN007 with a specially outfitted cabin seating 853 passengers on or about March 26th.


User currently offlineMarkHKG From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 960 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 12289 times:

Article in German

http://focus.msn.de/reisen/riesenvogel-airbus-380_aid_20430.html



Release your seat-belts and get out! Leave everything!
User currently offlineHeisan67 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 12228 times:

Interesting reading the German article. 7 meters slide from the upper deck to the ground is pretty high. Looking forward reading how this test went.

User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 11783 times:

(Dow Jones 03/18/06) PARIS -- Airbus plans on March 26 to conduct one of the key certification tests for its giant A380 jetliner: evacuating as many as 873 people in total darkness through half the plane's 16 doors within 90 seconds.

The test, to take place in a hangar at Airbus's factory in Hamburg, Germany, will be overseen by officials of the European Aviation Safety Agency, which is handling the A380's certification to carry passengers. Officials of the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration also will observe.

The test results may not be known for several days, Airbus spokeswoman Barbara Kracht said. EASA and FAA officials will want to examine infrared video taken during the test and analyze results of the drill. If the test needs to be interrupted, canceled or repeated, Airbus has lined up a second group to rerun the evacuation one week later, another Airbus spokesman said.

The test is critical because it will determine the number of passengers legally allowed to fly on the A380. The plane is designed to carry at most 853 passengers and 20 crew. Airbus wants to get at least 650 passengers off the plane in the test, because that is the largest number of seats now planned for the A380 by any of its current customers [Emirates]. "We are happy with anything above that," said Ms. Kracht...


User currently offlineWjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5162 posts, RR: 22
Reply 7, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 11733 times:

Shall we start a pool on how many folks suffer "serious" injuries (defined as a broken bone or worse) in this heinous exercise? ("Heinous" because it's so far from realistic as to be laughable. 90 seconds is how fast flashover is likely to occur, so that's a realistic standard -- after flashover, you're basically dead unless you have an Evac-U-8 with you. But how fast trained, motivated, primed volunteers who know the emergency is coming can get out is completely irrelevant. Fill the thing up with 850 young-and-old people, including elderly, lap children, women with stilletto heels, businessmen with "important" papers in their attache cases, who think they're on for a harmless, free hourlong flight with baggage, and who pay attention to safety briefings as carefully as most people usually do, then stop the plane on the tarmac, start pumping fake smoke in and annouce that there's a bomb about to go off. Then I'll believe the 90-second results.)

Few of the volunteers for these things realize that folks have in the past suffered debilitating spinal injuries and worse. Like those poor folks who were injured in that European drug trial earlier this week, folks (sadly including employees of the vendor and their families) would never accept the task if they understood the true risks; they don't believe that it could/would happen to them, and of course it can and always does. A one-in-800 chance of a spinal injury doesn't really appeal to me personally.


User currently offlineUA777222 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3348 posts, RR: 11
Reply 8, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 11718 times:

Was this test not already made? Or do the slides need to be tested on the actual aircraft as well before certification can be made? Correct me if I am wrong but was there not a special on The Discovery Channel regarding the A380 in which the slide manufature was showcased?

Best.

Matt



"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
User currently offlineFinkenwerder From Germany, joined Apr 2005, 147 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 11701 times:

Here's a video I uploaded and posted earlier...you can see the slide height for the lower deck quite clearly.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1656146172891517456

Please note this was an early test and does not represent the current state of the escape system.


User currently offlineUA777222 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3348 posts, RR: 11
Reply 10, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 11684 times:

The door sort of stuck on that video. For those who want to know how the door works please see this video.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3286325412142013280

Best.

Matt



"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 11676 times:

Quoting UA777222 (Reply 8):
Was this test not already made

In short, no. Check-out the other threads linked above and the numerous articles linked therein.

There was an excellent article in the WSJ about the evacuation testing process about a year ago (unfortunately this is a pay site):

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1111...485717.html?mod=article-outset-box

[Edited 2006-03-19 09:17:00]

User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 11607 times:

Quoting Finkenwerder (Reply 9):
Please note this was an early test and does not represent the current state of the escape system.

It took the technician approximately 15 seconds to open the door and deploy the slide, does this count against the 90 seconds?


User currently offlineMarkHKG From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 960 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 11582 times:

Quoting UA777222 (Reply 8):
Correct me if I am wrong but was there not a special on The Discovery Channel regarding the A380 in which the slide manufature was showcased?

Yes, there was a special that featured the testing of the overwing exit at the Goodrich Aircraft Interior Products division. The slides have also been tested for its use as slide/rafts, among other things. What has not yet occured is the evacuation certification which is the key to determining how many people the A380 will be allowed to carry.



Quoting Leelaw (Reply 12):

It took the technician approximately 15 seconds to open the door and deploy the slide, does this count against the 90 seconds?

Well, the technician appears to have simply opened the handle and let the power-assist open the door. During the evacuation certification, actual cabin crew will be used and they are trained to push the door completely open if it somehow jams so you wouldn't see a delay that long.

(But you're right: if the door does unintentionally jam and fail to completely open, that would disrupt the certification procedure...)



Release your seat-belts and get out! Leave everything!
User currently offlineUA777222 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3348 posts, RR: 11
Reply 14, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 11573 times:

Quoting MarkHKG (Reply 13):

Yes, there was a special that featured the testing of the overwing exit at the Goodrich Aircraft Interior Products division. The slides have also been tested for its use as slide/rafts, among other things. What has not yet occured is the evacuation certification which is the key to determining how many people the A380 will be allowed to carry.

So it's the actual aircraft that needs to be tested not the actual slides, correct?

Thanks for the clarifacation.

Matt



"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
User currently offlineSCEagle From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 136 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 11573 times:

Wonder if they'll have anyone who's on the upper deck who's afraid of heights. If they flat out f-r-e-e-z-e... do they get pushed out? Sounds like a way to get injured. Injury vs. death is one thing if plane is on fire, but during a test? Not worth it.

User currently offlineSCEagle From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 136 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 11559 times:

About motivation... I was watching a video of the tests of the 777 and wondered... do they give financial incentives to duplicate the inevitable pushing and shoving that would come from panicked people desperate for their lives to get out of an aircraft?

User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 11550 times:

Quoting SCEagle (Reply 16):
do they give financial incentives to duplicate the inevitable pushing and shoving that would come from panicked people desperate for their lives to get out of an aircraft?

From the WSJ article linked above:

"...One of the people who pushed for greater reality was Helen Muir, a professor of aerospace psychology at England's Cranfield University. Standing in her office she flipped on a videotape of a traditional evacuation test. The crowd looked rushed but orderly. Then she popped in footage of a test in which several people frantically try to squeeze into an escape hatch at once. The difference: Participants in the second test were offered a £5 note for being among the first to leave the airplane.

"Horrific, isn't it? And this is just for five pounds," says Prof. Muir. "Put a little smoke in the cabin and you think you're going to die..."


User currently offlineSkydrol From Canada, joined Oct 2003, 970 posts, RR: 10
Reply 18, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 11541 times:

Does anyone know what are the minimum wind requirements for the test? Obviously wind direction and velocity can play a role in how effective the evacuation slides are in remaining stable, especially the upper deck slides.



LD4



∙ ---{--« ∙ ----{--« ∙ --{-« ∙ ---{--« ∙ --{--« ∙ --{-« ∙ ----{--« ∙
User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 11525 times:

Quoting Skydrol (Reply 18):
Does anyone know what are the minimum wind requirements for the test? Obviously wind direction and velocity can play a role in how effective the evacuation slides are in remaining stable, especially the upper deck slides.



Quoting Leelaw (Reply 6):
The test, to take place in a hangar at Airbus's factory in Hamburg, Germany,

Is Airbus required to simulate certain wind conditions in the test hangar?


User currently offlineMarkHKG From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 960 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 11491 times:

Quoting UA777222 (Reply 14):
So it's the actual aircraft that needs to be tested not the actual slides, correct?

That's correct.

Quoting SCEagle (Reply 15):
Wonder if they'll have anyone who's on the upper deck who's afraid of heights.

If someone could baulk at going down a 777 slide (which happened during its evacuation certification with UA) you can sure as heck bet some people are going to hesitate on a double-decker a/c!!!

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 17):
From the WSJ article linked above:

Although Crainfield University does add a financial bonus to increase competitiveness, I don't actually know if they are doing the same with the Airbus testing.

Quoting Skydrol (Reply 18):
Does anyone know what are the minimum wind requirements for the test? Obviously wind direction and velocity can play a role in how effective the evacuation slides are in remaining stable, especially the upper deck slides.

The evacuation certification does not involve the use of wind. Evacuation certification takes place in a dark hanger (i.e. without light other than emergency lights) , but rain and wind are not simulated. The slides, however, are meant to resist 25-knot horizontal winds.



Release your seat-belts and get out! Leave everything!
User currently offlineFinkenwerder From Germany, joined Apr 2005, 147 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 11256 times:

Quoting UA777222 (Reply 10):
The door sort of stuck on that video. For those who want to know how the door works please see this video.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3286325412142013280

Best.

Matt

If you click the "more from this user" link on the video page you will see all the videos I have uploaded to Google.


User currently offlineAlessandro From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 11206 times:

I´ve seen the test the US manufacturer did with the slides for the A380, shown on Discovery channel. So now it´s all about re-doing it with the A380,
Airbus has contacted local athletic clubs for volunteers, so it´s hardly the average person that do those tests.


User currently offlineFinkenwerder From Germany, joined Apr 2005, 147 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 11206 times:

Particularly for LeeLaw

It took me rather less than 90 seconds to find the correct FAR manual....I'm somewhat suprised your not familiar with the FAA site....might save you a lot of time !

90 seconds from the signal to evacuate...

www.faa.gov/library/manuals/examiner...rs/8400/media/volume3/3_010_01.pdf

You will find all the inspectors handbooks here..

http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/examiners_inspectors/8400/

[Edited 2006-03-19 12:59:28]

User currently offlineMarkHKG From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 960 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 11120 times:

Finkenwerder, thanks for uploading the videos. I always like seeing slide deployments, especially when it's not an emergency. Big grin


Release your seat-belts and get out! Leave everything!
25 Leelaw : Excuse my laziness and thanx for providing the information. I sense you're annoyed with me and I'm not sure why?
26 Finkenwerder : Not in the slightest.....perhaps my over zealous punctuation gave the wrong impression !!!![Edited 2006-03-19 14:29:47]
27 LTBEWR : Last August we saw at Toronto's airport a real life emergency evacuation of an fairly full A340 with no deaths or serious injuries after running off t
28 MarkHKG : Half the exits are already blocked for the evacuation certification...it is up to the cabin crew to ensure that bottlenecks are resolved by sending p
29 RichardPrice : Just to add something else into the mix - in the typical 3 class cabin layout of 555 that most airlines seem to be using, the upper deck holds roughly
30 Jacobin777 : no..they won't be, there is too much of a risk of injuries
31 Dougloid : According to the information I'm getting it has been decided by regulators that the slides will be predeployed. The doors will be closed and the volu
32 RichardPrice : None of this is real world testing, absolutely none of it. There isnt any fire, there isnt any smoke, there isnt a pool of potentially explosive jetf
33 Wjcandee : Well, before you tear this respected, experienced poster's head off, you might recognize that the "real world" comment is his *subsidiary* point. His
34 Poitin : Having gone down the slide of a DC-10 many years ago, RichardPrice is absolutely right, this test has no relationship to reality. What we have is a t
35 RichardPrice : If you reread my post, you will see that I do say that that wasnt a personal attack against Dougloid, but against a subject that comes up often. The
36 474218 : I this is true the test will be invalid as the FAR's provide the exact cross section for the volunteers required, age, sex, etc.
37 Poitin : While where they may recuit their volunteers anywhere, the mix of ages and sexs is called out in the specs, along with 3 dolls (in lieu of real babie
38 Post contains links Leelaw : Here's the FI article Dougloid was looking for last week, finally came online today: Airbus is to undertake the full-scale evacuation test of the A380
39 Poitin : Oh, that is not quite what they were saying a few months ago, is it? Maybe reality arrived in Toulouse. They have really changed their tune a bit. Th
40 Dougloid : Not a problem no offense taken. I realize it is not a real world simulated emergency landing test. Nonetheless, from the time the starter's pistol fi
41 Post contains links and images Crosswind : Dougloid, No offence but I don't think you've understood how the A380's escape-slide system works on the upper deck. Unlike the main-deck doors, the u
42 PlaneHunter : Which ones? PH
43 Post contains links and images MarkHKG : On a totally random note, check out this slide deployment from what I think is an A321 (since it comes out of the fusalage rather than a door bustle)
44 Desh : Just for my knowledge - In a real life situation like YYZ a few months back , does the captian / crew wait till the engines are sufficiently reved dow
45 BAW716 : Wjcandjee makes a point. There had better be a lot of medical staff ready to assist with passenger injuries, because there WILL be some; likely broken
46 Crosswind : Thanks for posting that video of the A321 door 2 slide - it's the same system that has been applided to the A380 upper-deck doors. The video clearly
47 Zeke : Dont think Boeing ever did upper deck slide tests on he 747, the original test people went via the internal staircase to the lower deck. From memory
48 Post contains images Poitin : Well, since you have EK business plan, perhaps you can tell us.
49 Post contains images Poitin : When you see statements like: “If it is below 650 we will definitely have to do it again. But we are confident of it being above 750,” says A380 s
50 Bennett123 : Zeke Would'nt this cause a bottleneck at the bottom of the stairs.
51 Dougloid : I don't see a slide that large deploying fully in less than seven seconds. I've done slide deploy tests on the MD11 and also seen a slide go off in t
52 PlaneHunter : Why don't you just answer the question? You talked about "LCCs" - now I'd like to hear which ones you meant. PH
53 Post contains links Crosswind : Which is why on the A380 upper-deck the slide starts to deploy before the door even moves towards the open position, and the door it's self opens mor
54 Post contains images Okelleynyc : This has been an interesting tome for me and I will look forward to reading about the test once it has been completed. After reading all of these post
55 AR385 : I wrote this in May. But I thought it applied to this thread so here goes. So far I have posted this a couple of times. Sorry if some of you have alre
56 Post contains links MarkHKG : FAA On Pre-Deployed Slides... http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory...c678886256f4f0074b24b!OpenDocument "Paragraph (p) of Appendix J is revised to all
57 OldAeroGuy : Regulations call for the slides to be functional with the engines at idle and up to 25 kt wind from any angle. Not quite sure about the wind value bu
58 Jacobin777 : thanks for the interesting read...sounds scary One would assume that they have changed some of the procedures because of the possibility (risk) of to
59 Poitin : Amen. I went down a DC-10 slide many years ago because of a false alarm. The pilot smelled smoke on taxi-out stopped and got us all off. Nice clear d
60 Joni : This has already been discussed here.. but you can also think of it this way: 1) They're testing for 800 people, not 550. Usually the plane is likely
61 787engineer : I think in the end it all works out to be pretty accurate. Usually the people who volunteer for these tests have some decent knowledge of airplanes,
62 Poitin : A total of 873 people, including crew. Airbus already seems reconciled to the test coming up short, although they really MUST do at least 650 to keep
63 Post contains images Jacobin777 : ..only people with real-life experiences could give a first-hand explanation as to how it truly is.......... will be interesting to see what happens.
64 A319XFW : If this test is a joke, then all evacuation certification tests so far have been a joke. And it would have been done on the aircraft you evacuated fr
65 Poitin : My trip was a false alarm, but I hope never to repeat it. As for this coming Sunday, I will pray for the safety of those taking part in the test. Wha
66 Post contains images Jacobin777 : true, but I'm sure your weren't thinking "false alarm" at the time of the incident..well..at least I hope you weren't.. I hope all goes well on Sunda
67 Poitin : I was scared sh##less.
68 Jacobin777 : exactly....there you go....the evacuation test won't be remotely the same, but it is what it is and that is what we must accept.......
69 Post contains links MarkHKG : I've tried to find it myself, including CAA reports, but it has been lacking. Check out http://www.fire.tc.faa.gov/2004Conference/html/evac.htm for s
70 Poitin : These tests are a joke because they are the best possible conditions, as Dr Muir shows in her research. And yes, bailing out of a DC-10 for real was
71 Post contains images MarkHKG : Poitin, have you seen the video clip of one of Cranfield's/Muir's evacuation trial when the people actually get stuck in the overwing type III exit?
72 A319XFW : then you should write to the FAA, EASA and so on to change their regulations.
73 Post contains links Finkenwerder : Just to avoid any conjecture regarding timings for the evac trial MSN0007 is now completely fitted for the trial. Seats hatracks etc etc. it being def
74 Poitin : I have, at least the FAA. Too busy to reply to me. The same is true of Dr. Muir. What does a woman know, right? The University of Cranfield is a worl
75 Poitin : Thanks for the update, Finkenwerder. While I would hope that this software is at least looked at as an alternative, I suspect the first time there is
76 Dougloid : I think they've already signaled their lack of enthusiasm for this notion as Airbus' attempt to sell it was rejected. Douglas tried to sell the FAA o
77 Wjcandee : Just like the people stuck in the exit in that nightclub fire in Rhode Island. Horrifying. There's nobody outside, people dying behind the door, and
78 Post contains images MarkHKG : We should totally write to her to ask for her autograph! In all seriousness though, I did contact one of her fellow researchers and did get a reply b
79 Poitin : And it said??????
80 APFPilot1985 : I have seen quite a few references to this 777 evacuation video does anyone have a link?
81 Post contains images MarkHKG : "Thanks for your interest, it's being published this year" When it gets released I'll try to remember to send it to you! It's not online...I think Am
82 Poitin : I think you understand the first part of the problem. My issue is what the "Pack of Lawyers" will do with it in front of "12 men and women true" who
83 Post contains images MarkHKG : This particular study deals with the effect of what cabin crew say during an emergency, because (perhaps) surprisingly, carriers do not use a consist
84 Dougloid : Like I said, "we in the profession"
85 AR385 : This issue keeps coming up once and again. That's why I already have my "writing" on it saved. I just post it whenever it may be of use to anyone. Has
86 Dougloid : I don't think anyone's suggesting that a simulation is the same as the real deal any more than Macbeth is the same thing as a murder. It can't be. No
87 MarkHKG : There is no way you will ever simulate a real emergency-- I don't think anyone doubts that. But there nevertheless is significant value to evacuation
88 Post contains images Poitin : Ah, what whores we be! However, I am retired from all that, and I have washed my feet of it. More honor in mucking out the barn, there is.
89 Poitin : I am very interested in seeing it. Well, amigo, it appears it just you and me warning them about the big wooden horse, but that is life. I think the
90 Dougloid : Well, I got my mucking out the barn preloaded so to speak. I spent the first 45 years of my life as a worker bee in various blue collar jobs that ran
91 Poitin : Far more honor in honest and dirty work than some the sh## I have seen in the court room.
92 Alessandro : I got an idea to make it real, start a bogus airline like "Drybones airways", offer tickets for 1 €uro on an A380 let say Paris to Canary islands on
93 Post contains links MarkHKG : I thought this might be interesting regarding evacuations, although it isn't about the A380. It's a Canadian retrospective safety review of actual eva
94 Post contains images Poitin : Has anyone heard about the test? Is it going as planned? How about you Finkenwerder?
95 Finkenwerder : MSN0007 is in the paint shop. The test will go ahead on Sunday as planned.
96 Poitin : Are they painting it or is that where the test will be done?
97 Leelaw : IIRC, that's where Airbus will conduct the test.
98 Post contains links Leelaw : http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/263847_air22.html
99 Finkenwerder : It will be interesting to see how quickly the news leaks about this test. The FAA et al are not due to report for a few days. I wonder if we have an A
100 Poitin : I think you will know about it by dinner time Sunday, because there are just too many people involved, and too much riding on this test. People will
101 Kappel : I wonder how many 744's in a three class config actually seat over 400. I know KLM has 420, but that't just two classes.
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