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What To Do When Flight Crew Can' T Get Along  
User currently offlineScalebuilder From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 6588 times:

How do airlines deal with this?

Does anyone know if this happens? I can't imagine that it has not in the history of flight.

Do crew members have a choice of whom they want to work with on specific flights? Cabin or cockpit?

Any historical consequences worth any mention resulting from personal differences among cabin or cockpit crew?

[Edited 2006-03-16 04:28:08]

[Edited 2006-03-16 04:31:53]

22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineS5FA170 From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 534 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6527 times:

I know at my airline, we are asked this specific question in our interview (at least in Flight Attendant interviews). And as a Flight Attendant, and a professional, we are expected to be able to work with many kinds of people everyday. Obviously, we won't get along with everyone. And we won't become best friends with the majority of our coworkers. However, we are expected to show up for work everyday and keep our personal problems and conflicts with fellow employees out of the cabin.

At the end of the day, their are only two flight attendants on my airplane. So if I really have a problem with someone, I can stay in my galley when I'm not needed in the cabin and they can stay in their's. What the airline wants to know is that it won't affect passenger safety. And if you have any kind of maturity - it shouldn't.

Yes their are instances of flight attendant's not getting along. Just a few months ago a Mesaba ARJ returned to Memphis (I believe it was MEM) after the flight attendant's got in a fight in the cabin. This is an extreme case! But it does happen. Some days, the passengers get on your nerves and the last thing you need is a fellow flight attendant doing the same! Oh well, life is crazy.

As for avoiding people - at my airline, when you bid, you can bid to "Avoid" certain employee numbers. As long as they are senior to you, you can bid to avoid them, or work with them.

-Tony



Prepare doors for departure and cross-check.
User currently offlineRDYNYC From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 65 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6483 times:

In 1986 United Airlines acquired Pan Am's Pacific routes and some Pan Am cabin crew. The initial transition was very stressful and harbored much animosity between both airline employees. There was a situation I recall where an ex Pan Am flight attendant and a United flight attendant practically got into a pushing and shoving brawl in the F/C cabin of a 747. The news "flew" around the system immediately...

User currently offlineScalebuilder From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6469 times:

Quoting RDYNYC (Reply 2):
The news "flew" around the system immediately...

Any link available out there to what actually happened that would give me the full story?

Thanks!

Scalebuilder


User currently offlineBroocy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6456 times:

Quoting Scalebuilder (Thread starter):
What To Do When Flight Crew Can' T Get Along

Thank your lucky stars that you work in an airline that allows you to work with a variety of people. Even if you are on a long international posting, you can still get time apart from each other. In a land based job you may have to work with someone you don't get along with day in and day out. That can be a cause of real, on-going stress in the work place.

I've never worked as crew, but the mix'n'match nature of the people you get to work with actually seems like a big positive to me.

That said, I can understand why crew can butt heads from time to time. After all the confined spaces and tiring work can tax even the most professional of people.


User currently offlineMidnightMike From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2892 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6446 times:

Quoting Scalebuilder (Thread starter):
How do airlines deal with this?

Does anyone know if this happens? I can't imagine that it has not in the history of flight.

Do crew members have a choice of whom they want to work with on specific flights? Cabin or cockpit?

Any historical consequences worth any mention resulting from personal differences among cabin or cockpit crew?

Since CRM has been adapted, these thing do not happen very often in the airlines as the crews are taught to work with each other. Some airlines have a no-fly list, but, the majority of the crews have no problems with flying with most of their co-workers.



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User currently offlineScalebuilder From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 6430 times:

Quoting Broocy (Reply 4):
Thank your lucky stars that you work in an airline that allows you to work with a variety of people.

I do not work for an airline. However, I do work in an office environment with enough people that conflict will arise from time to time. People can go home......or I can if necessary. But during flight wheather in the cockpit or in the cabin....well where do you go if you're ticked off?


User currently offlineCRGsFuture From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 536 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 6413 times:

Well as a future pilot first thing I was taught at a camp last year was that you don't talk small till 10,000 on an aircraft as per FAA requirement. I worked well with my "pilot" but we had to do it as a team, if we don't were screwing the passengers we are supposed to protect for the 800+ nautical mile journey.

If I don't like the person I still have to work with them so if it coms to worse case scenario don't talk till need to, or make sure you get the ATC guy. Most of the time though pilots normally are good at getting along with other pilots for the most part.



Flying you to your destination; your girlfriend to her dreams.
User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 6248 times:

In another life I was a F/A for NY. We flew 28 day lines with the same cabin and flight deck crews. Of all the lines I flew, there was only one were I did not get along with the other two F/A's.

It so happend that it was an all male cabin crew, and the other two 'boys' were fighting between themselves for the entire first two trips. I was the senior and just trip traded and worked with crew scheudling to get off that line and work other trips.

It was a pain, I lost senior pay for the rest of the month, but I know that I was happier and able to do a better job, and those two didn't last long at NY.

As far as issues with the Flight Deck, never had a problem.

I think most current and former F/A's will agree, that we are/where a unique group and were hired for our ability to get along.


User currently offlineFaenum From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 35 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 6024 times:

Teamwork on the flight deck was not always a priority. On 27 Apr 1964, at Kilwa in East Africa, poor relations between flight crew probably contributed to a fatal accident. Read the F/O's account here,

http://mccrow.org.uk/EastAfrica/East_Arican_Airways/Tommyaccount.htm


User currently offlineScalebuilder From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 5884 times:

Quoting Faenum (Reply 9):
Teamwork on the flight deck was not always a priority. On 27 Apr 1964, at Kilwa in East Africa, poor relations between flight crew probably contributed to a fatal accident. Read the F/O's account here,

Really interesting story. Thanks for the link  Wink .


User currently offlineVincewy From Taiwan, joined Oct 2005, 767 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 5736 times:

A few years ago there was an incident at TK, hear this, 2 pilots (A340 between JFK-IST) that couldn't get along, it was so bad that it ended up in fist fight in the cockpit during the flight. Perhaps some Turkish member can clarify this, at the end both pilots were fined/suspended for passenger endangerment.

This is not unique to airlines industry, it happens to professional sports, quite often there're brawls behind the locker rooms that we've never heard of, quite contrary to the concept of team work.


User currently offlineSCXmechanic From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 534 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5634 times:

A few airlines I have worked at in the past had "No Fly Lists" where if you didn't care to work with someone you just added them to your list and scheduling wouldn't pair you up with them.

User currently offlineMbg From Turkey, joined Nov 2005, 38 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 5541 times:

Quoting Vincewy (Reply 11):

There was such an incident in a TK A343 that made its way to the headlines, perhaps in the late 90s. That flight originated from somewhere in South East Asia, could have been BKK and was heading to IST. If I'm not mistaken, both the captain and F/O had a military background, the F/O retiring later from the military with a higher rank. Apparently, he couldn't adjust to the new civil environment too well, at least that's what the articles said.

I have no insider info, just read it from the tabloids, so maybe some TK employees can correct me if any of the above is incorrect.

Cheers,

mbg


User currently offlineBennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7808 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 5516 times:

My understanding is that this was a factor in the Staines Trident disaster as well.

There was a belief that a dispute at BEA resulted in very bad feeling and that this led to some form of heart attack in the Captain soon after take off.


User currently offlineIAirAllie From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 5473 times:

Unless you have a serious safety concern about someone you cannot refuse to fly with them just because you have a personality conflict. I'm fortunate to work on a plane with 8 other FA's if you don't mesh with one it's not that big of a deal. It's also important to realize that we generally don't fly with the same people for longer than a month and then you might not see them again for a long time. It's easier to put up with a crew conflict when you realize it is only short term.

User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 5328 times:

Assuming the topic is "Flightcrew" as in "pilots" (versus cabin crew), I seem to vaguely recall an America West flight coming out of Phoenix in the last 5 years or so where the PIC and F/O got into some kind of disagreement during takeoff/climbout (probably had roots before that), and they diverted to TUS.

It made the papers and TV news, but I'll be darned if I can ever recall hearing what the fracas was all about...


User currently offlineType-rated From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 5277 times:

Sometimes if a crewmember is considered "strange" by their peers they may have difficulty with having others want to work with them. Usually it's not flying skills, but things like hygiene, manners, personal habits or they may just be a non stop chatterbox.
If you get one of these characters, you can always ask for a swap/change with someone else. After awhile if management notices that a crewmember has a large number of swaps with other crews they are working with, they will investigate and take corrective action if needed.
I personally know of a guy at CO that nobody likes to fly with because he obsesses about magazines and newspapers. He won't read one of these that has already been "fondled" by others, and he won't let others read his reading material until he's done with it. And even then he obsesses about someone creasing a page or putting a "dog ear" on one of the pages. During the flight he even discusses who has "fondled" his reading material on previous flights.
Does it affect his flying skill, no. But it does drive others nuts!


User currently offlineIAirAllie From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 5221 times:

Quoting Scalebuilder (Thread starter):
differences among cabin or cockpit crew?

The original post said cabin or cockpit.


User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13195 posts, RR: 15
Reply 19, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week ago) and read 4553 times:

I would be very concerned as a passanger if the level of flight crew not being able to get along is so that it affects service and safety. One has to wonder how the major cuts in and declining pay and benefits of airlne employees aggrevates personality and other personal problems and how they getting along during a flight. I would also suggest that seniority is less respected by many younger employees now, causing potential problems.
As to cockpit crew, I would suggest that with more careful screening of applicants, the development of Cockpit Resource Management and fewer pilots comming from the ranks of military pilots, you have a lot less of the ego driven or 'god complex' issues by airlines all over the world and that you have far less problems of unprofessional beheavor.
As to F/A's, the cuts in pay and benefits, being made to work more hours/flights, work for more years than they wanted, increasingly disgruntled pax who no longer get food or beverages for free or at all, probably aggrevates personality conflicts. I would hope that initial and ongoing training of f/a's including conflict management would help reduce the potential service and safety risks from conflicts.


User currently offlinePilotaydin From Turkey, joined Sep 2004, 2539 posts, RR: 51
Reply 20, posted (8 years 9 months 2 days ago) and read 3981 times:

Quoting Mbg (Reply 13):
Apparently, he couldn't adjust to the new civil environment too well, at least that's what the articles said.

thankfully we now have CRM and MCC courses available to crews, and most of the so called dictator captains have been weeded out, i very much like that now at Turkish the F/O can file a report and actually be heard out in any offense and non SOP behaviour!



The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
User currently offlineGr8Circle From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 3130 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (8 years 9 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3933 times:

Couple of years back there was a case of an AI captain on an A310 slapping his FO when the aircraft was on ground in DXB...  Big grin

User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31702 posts, RR: 56
Reply 22, posted (8 years 9 months 4 hours ago) and read 3754 times:

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 21):
Couple of years back there was a case of an AI captain on an A310 slapping his FO when the aircraft was on ground in DXB...

It was last year.
LINK
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
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