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Eads And A320 Assembly Lines In China.  
User currently offlineElvis777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 360 posts, RR: 3
Posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3749 times:

hello all,

http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/03/15/business/airbus.php

interesting article. Will it help or hurt to industrial base in Europe ? How will the unions react? Is this a good business decision by Eads -In to long run Will Eads make more money From This? Will This Technology Transfer to china be good -bad for the west? what if B or A come up with a new design for this segment -will it hurt sales of the new plane? Is Boeing's plan of getting parts from many suppliers around the world (Japan -Australia -Italy) a better way to achieve globalization (synergy) and manage The political pressure of buying 'local'? what about India as a manufacturing center and the large air Travel opportunities.

peace


Elvis777

[Edited 2006-03-16 06:09:23]


Leper,Unevolved, Misplaced and Unrepentant SportsFanatic and a ZOMBIE as well
12 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineRuscoe From Australia, joined Aug 1999, 1605 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 3689 times:

I think the Chinese are too savvy for this.
They will be assembling an aircraft near the end of its Commercial life.
It is hard to see what is in it for them.
The Chinese are quite capable of doing an aircraft as sophisticated as the 320.
They would be better off trying for "risk" sharing on the 320 replacement. Then I think there would be legitimate grounds for concern on technology transfer.

Ruscoe


User currently offlineShenzhen From United States of America, joined Jun 2003, 1712 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 3673 times:

I seriously doubt that Airbus will assemble the A320 in China. The Chinese airlines are the actual customers, and they know quite well which airplanes they will buy in the future.

It would seem to me that all previous attempts at gaining market share in China by assembling airplanes there, has been a complete failure for the manufactures. Just look at the MD80, MD90, Embrarer and so on and so forth.

None of these airplanes sold well in China once they were manufactured there. The 737/A320 killed the MD80/90 and Embrarer hasn't sold but a handful.

Look for this to be strung along until it is forgotten. The toasts and media lights are already gone.....

Cheers


User currently offlineCarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2977 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 3638 times:

For sure, Airbus will need more Belugas if this occurs.

User currently offlineStarGoldLHR From Heard and McDonald Islands, joined Feb 2004, 1529 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 3629 times:

This is 2006.

not 1996, 1986 etc..

China is emerging as a major new world economy. China is going to make a new plane of their own, it will be cheaper and it will be a success.

Proof.. in THIS century, what has China made that hasnt been faster, better, cheaper ?

The question is will it be Airbus, will it be Boeing or will it be a chinese competitor which is faster, cheaper and better than both ?



So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
User currently offlineBoomBoom From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3543 times:

Quote:
Four Chinese cities are vying for the plant, which would produce up to four A320's a month, in cooperation with Chinese state-owned aerospace manufacturers.

The plant would essentially clamp together parts of the A320, a small part of the manufacturing process. Airbus said the portion of work at the China plant would represent 4 percent to 5 percent of the value of the aircraft.

Analysts said, however, that Airbus might not gain much profit from assembling a plane like the A320 in China. Single-aisle planes tend to have thinner profit margins.

Unlike cars, planes cost very little to deliver — they are simply fueled and flown there. But shipping bulky aircraft parts long distances to assembly plants can be very expensive.

So while automakers like Toyota and Honda have built factories in the United States, aircraft manufacturers have generally preferred to keep production near their bases of operations.

"Everything else being equal, you would never choose to put a production line in China," said Richard L. Aboulafia.

http://www.finfacts.com/irelandbusin...ews/publish/article_10005205.shtml


User currently offlineA319XFW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 3488 times:

Quote:
Even some traditionally sharp critics of China, like Larry M. Wortzel, the chairman of the U.S.-China Economic and Security Review Commission, said the final assembly of A320's in China would be unlikely to transfer militarily important technology to the Chinese.

If anything, he said in an interview, it might teach China's aviation industry better quality control.

The transfer of secrets for the fabrication of high-grade alloys for jet engine manufacture or of certain composite materials — not moves that Airbus has said it would consider — would be more of an issue.

http://www.finfacts.com/irelandbusin...ews/publish/article_10005205.shtml


User currently offlinePoitin From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 3469 times:

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 4):



Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 4):
This is 2006.

not 1996, 1986 etc..

China is emerging as a major new world economy. China is going to make a new plane of their own, it will be cheaper and it will be a success.

Proof.. in THIS century, what has China made that hasnt been faster, better, cheaper ?

The question is will it be Airbus, will it be Boeing or will it be a chinese competitor which is faster, cheaper and better than both ?

Right on. Today China is producing about 90% of everything else I buy that is not food, and even there quite a bit. They are far more than able to do airliners too. And their interest in the A320 is obvious -- composite technology. They can learn alot from the tail.


User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1001 posts, RR: 51
Reply 8, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 3469 times:

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 4):
Proof.. in THIS century, what has China made that hasnt been faster, better, cheaper ?

Interesting that you use the catch-phrase of NASA's dark days. I can think of a few:



Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 4):
China is going to make a new plane of their own, it will be cheaper and it will be a success.

Problem with your logic, the only way China can produce aircraft cheaper than wester OEM is to rely on cheap labor. This is much less an issue now than it was a decade ago.

Labor cost use to run approx 10% of the aircraft unit cost, but Boeing is targeting a labor reduction of 30 days to 3 days for B787 final assembly. Automated technology means subcontractors can produce their components cheaper as well.

Also, China lacks a supplier base that is competitive with the west. All Chinese projects like the ARJ-21 feature western engines, western avionics, etc, and are not competitive with current generation products. Developing their own suppliers that are competitive with the likes of GE, Rockwell Collins, Vaught, and Mitsubishi would be a tremendous step in the right direction.

China's entry into commercial aerospace will not happen overnight, heck it took Airbus almost 20 years.


User currently offlineA319XFW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 3440 times:

Quoting Poitin (Reply 7):
And their interest in the A320 is obvious -- composite technology. They can learn alot from the tail.

Nothing they couldn't learn from the tails of the aircraft they already own.

Not quite strictly speaking, but the AMM is similar to installation instructions of systems and airlines have the assembly/installation drawings (just not the actual installation instructions I'd guess).


User currently offlinePoitin From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3428 times:

Quoting A319XFW (Reply 9):
And their interest in the A320 is obvious -- composite technology. They can learn alot from the tail.

Nothing they couldn't learn from the tails of the aircraft they already own.

Not quite strictly speaking, but the AMM is similar to installation instructions of systems and airlines have the assembly/installation drawings (just not the actual installation instructions I'd guess).

I wasn't aware they were building large composite structures such as the A320 tail, not to mention the rather slick way Airbus creep forms the wing skins of their aircraft. However, it they already have that technology, then why bother with building A320?


User currently offlineA319XFW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3392 times:

Quoting Poitin (Reply 10):
wasn't aware they were building large composite structures such as the A320 tail,

They aren't. The HTP is one big piece delivered to the FAL and so is the VTP. they then go on the tailcone.
So there's nothing to assembled there that can't be done at a mx facility.


User currently offlinePoitin From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3372 times:

Quoting A319XFW (Reply 11):
Quoting Poitin (Reply 10):
wasn't aware they were building large composite structures such as the A320 tail,

They aren't. The HTP is one big piece delivered to the FAL and so is the VTP. they then go on the tailcone.
So there's nothing to assembled there that can't be done at a mx facility.

My point is if the Chinese start to build A320's they will INSIST on being given access to the technology. They will build whatever parts they want, especially the composite tail. I don't know what parts of the 787 is built in China, but they will want to build part of the aircraft if they are going to buy it. It is the way they have been working for years. Watch for that in any purchases of the 787 the Chinese might make.

One item the US military has been keeping out of Chinese hands for years is Kelvar, for obvious reasons.


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