Rotate From Switzerland, joined Feb 2003, 1479 posts, RR: 18 Reply 6, posted (7 years 2 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 20757 times:
I think they took off from a taxiway instead of the rwy. And on the taxiway there was some construction going on. weather and visibility that time was very poor ...
BrianW999 From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 310 posts, RR: 6 Reply 10, posted (7 years 2 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 20696 times:
Apparently Taipei has no ground radar, the vis was so bad that the tower couldn't see the 05 holds and therefore didn't know of the error.
I remember that day well. My wife and I were leaving Singapore the following day with Singapore Airlines bound for Heathrow. The weather was not good with a heavy tropical storm just before takeoff. Bear in mind that the exact reason for the previous days' events was not known at that time. Everyone was rather tense but the cabin crew showed incredible standards of professionalism in tending to our needs, despite the pressure and grief levels they must have been under. I would like to publicly express my thanks for the continuing high standards of Singapore Airlines. I believe them to be the best airline in the world and always try to use them on asian flights.
StudentFlyer From Australia, joined Sep 2004, 688 posts, RR: 4 Reply 13, posted (7 years 2 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 20538 times:
Indeed it is very sad. I had the privilege of flying that very aircraft about 4 months before it crashed. To be exact, I was flying it SYD-SIN as SQ220 on 28 Jun 2000. I think I was seated at row 38 IIRC. It is indeed very tragic. I will remember it fondly the day it crashed. It was on Wednesday morning of 1 Nov 2000 (the day after the tragedy) that I heard it in the morning news about a Singapore Airlines crashing at Taipei. The moment I saw it, I told myself.. this couldn't be the Tropical-liveried SQ 9V-SPK, as i saw rainbow colours on the still-buring wreckage.. and to my disbelief, it turned out to be that very same aircraft that I was in. (I am aware that SQ did have another temporary Tropical-liveried aircraft as 9V-SPL at that same time). What a tragic end to such a beautiful aircraft
My sympathy still goes to those who did not survive this tragic accident.
Kiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8435 posts, RR: 15 Reply 15, posted (7 years 2 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 20356 times:
I was sitting in the departure lounge at BKK for an early morning flight to HAN ( a TG 734 delayed by the need for a tyre change ) and the news came on the TV in the gate lounge - it was really frustrating because for about ten minutes they did not actually mention which airline it was , just that a 747 from "an airline with a hitherto excellent safety record" had crashed at TPE - when they finally said which airline it was almost a relief . IIRC the a/c was fortunately only lightly loaded otherwise the toll would probably have been much higher
Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
Noelg From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 16, posted (7 years 2 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 20073 times:
I was on the National Express heading down to Heathrow on the 1st November for my flight to the US, the guy next to me was flying SQ to Australia and had the picture on the front page of the newspaper he was reading.
He was absolutely petrified that SQ were unsafe and was worried that his plane would do the same....
Qantas744ER From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1251 posts, RR: 4 Reply 17, posted (7 years 2 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 19920 times:
Hey, I have a question for PhilSquares,
Since you fly the 744, in the FMC you enter the airport etc. and the DEP RWY wich in that case was 05L, and on the main screen it would show RWY 05L,
but if the pilots taxied on to RWY 05R didnt they see that the pointer wasnt on the RWY 05L ?
PhilSquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 21, posted (7 years 2 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 18249 times:
Quoting Qantas744ER (Reply 17): Since you fly the 744, in the FMC you enter the airport etc. and the DEP RWY wich in that case was 05L, and on the main screen it would show RWY 05L,
but if the pilots taxied on to RWY 05R didnt they see that the pointer wasnt on the RWY 05L ?
After flying in and out of TPE numerous times, on the ND, it's very hard to see. The runways are extremely close, plus the markings at that airport are extremely poor. To this day, things haven't changed much.
Qantas744ER From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1251 posts, RR: 4 Reply 22, posted (7 years 2 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 17068 times:
5R is now closed if im correct? And TPE now only has RWY 5L and RWY 06
is the crash of that flight reason for the cloSure of RWY 05R ?
SparkingWave From South Korea, joined Jun 2005, 668 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (7 years 2 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 15917 times:
Quoting BrianW999 (Reply 10): I believe them to be the best airline in the world
I'm sorry to disagree, but SQ is NOT the best airline in the world. At one point or another, sooner or later, all airlines will fail you. And in that instant back then, this one failed miserably.
The airport also failed miserably, and if by now Taipei doesn't have ground radar, God help them should there ever be another accident due to bad visibility.
SparkingWave ~~~
Flights to the moon and all major space stations. At Pan Am, the sky is no longer the limit!
TinkerBelle From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 24, posted (7 years 2 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 15463 times:
Quoting SparkingWave (Reply 23): Quoting BrianW999 (Reply 10):
I believe them to be the best airline in the world
I'm sorry to disagree, but SQ is NOT the best airline in the world.
It comes down to personal preference and I'm sure he has reasons to believe that SQ is the best airline in the world just as you have reason to believe it's not.
25 ETFokker50: The notes and links above state that Runway 05R was having construction work done, so as to turn it into a taxiway. So, as I understand, the crash was
26 YYZYYT: . IIRC, there have been conflicting reports prepared by the Singapore and Taiwanese authorities. One blaming the pilots and the other blaming the airp
27 CrossChecked: SQ are a fantastic airline - this accident can be put down to little more than pilot error.
28 TwoLz2Rn: what were the casualties in the accident? Crew? Passengers?
29 Zvezda: It was a combination of pilot error and insufficient indications on the ground that 05R was closed. Ultimately, it is the pilot's responsibility to e
30 Bongo: 83:179 I wonder why the airport did not put any signal at the begining of the runway, is that a regular practice? I guess just a simple red or yellow
31 TinkerBelle: Read the report Philsquares provided above. 83 out of 179 perished.
32 Bravo45: Not to take any of the blame away from the pilots, but during the investigation I happened to see (I don't remember which channel) on TV a commitie I
33 Gritzngravee: This is exactly why a number of people responded angrily to a comment in the DL liquidate or sale post yesterday when an a netter said pilots are gros
34 Atnight: BTW, did the captian or f/o survive the incident? if so, is he still flying for SQ or any other airline? and what was his nationality?(Not that it wil
35 Antares: I know this is a very uspetting thing to say, but I think the culture at SQ that night failed its customers grievously. There was haste to depart. The
36 Broocy: Sadly, this, the Silk Air suicide debacle, the near disastrous tail scrape incident at Auckland only a couple of years after SQ6 and two personal inc
37 StudentFlyer: All Flight-deck crew survived this accident. They all went to court in Taiwan, and was found guilty of negligence IIRC. The then 48 year old captain
38 PhilSquares: Broocy, obviously I am somewhat biased in this area, but I think you need to take a realistic look at airline operations. The refueling error as you
39 Broocy: For the record I have flown over 1000 sectors as a passenger on all continents. I am not crew, but my interest in aviation safety comes from my family
40 PhilSquares: I have been on carriers from all over the world and have seen the cockpit cut off the safety demo. However, I think your above comments are just unca
41 Nzrich: Well i work for Air NZ and we NEVER fly without a full safety briefing being completed and cabin being checked by the crew.. I sometimes operate as p
42 PhilSquares: Not that I doubt you, but mistakes do happen. One thing for sure in aviation, you never use the word NEVER! Interestingly enough, one of the carriers
43 Womack17: My most sincere condolences to you my friend. Sadly, I understand your aviation safety diligence as I lost my older brother on Wednesday, August 31,
44 Nzrich: Well yes i can because the culture in our airline puts safety first and yes we do get pressured to get away on time but our safety related tasks take
45 StudentFlyer: Nzrich, how can you be completely sure that it will NEVER happen? It could be that the flight you're on does the safety briefing prior to take off all
46 Molykote: I can't see a circumstance where human failures are going to be 100% avoided. Likewise, I believe your "will never happen" attitude is another false
47 PhilSquares: If your comments are directed at SQ, then perhaps you might want to revisit your thoughts. The Captain isn't king at all. However, he is accountable/
48 TinkerBelle: Your post is kind of pathetic really... The 'Captain is King' comment seems like a cheap shot at some airline (I'm guessing SQ here). I bet if the co
49 MEA-707: I am sure in a few years they will again, seeing how special liveries do so well on selected planes in the region like Malaysian, Cebu Airways, JAL,
50 GBOAF: As already mentioned, 9V-SPP is in a half hearted Star Livery (although minus the Star Tail as on all other star carriers in the star scheme) 9V-SPL
51 Zvezda: G-BOAF, SMT, SMW, and SMZ do not yet have Connexion installed, so therefore are not flown to LHR. SPL and SPP do have Connexion installed.
52 9V-SVA: 9V-SMU. Yes, it had its decals removed, sadly.
53 Womack17: I completely agree with you regarding this statement and yet I think it has more to do with giving up the control of our own destiny in an indirect w
55 Zkpilot: While it is possible for human error, and everyone is underpressure for time, I do have to agree that NZ does have VERY high safety standards compare
56 Atnight: Excuse me, but what incident is this one mentioned??? I had no idea of a Silk Air suicide... could someone explain to me what happened??? Thank you.
57 StudentFlyer: This was the one that happened in Indonesia back in December 1997. A Silk Air B733 crashed with 104 passengers and crew, and no one survived it. It w
58 Broocy: Phil Squares, I went away and reviewed he accident report, I must apologise to you and to SQ for the misunderstanding about the AKL incident and any
59 FLFlyGuy: This discussion of taking off before the safety demo is complete baffles me. The cockpit crew are aware that a video is running (there's a big ole blu
60 Zkpilot: A fellow pilot of mine from my days back at flying school was a good friend of the F/O. There was pretty much a bit of corruption between the Indones
61 JFK998: Kinda like MS 990, except, MS 990 had 230 passengers on board and dropped from 30,000 feet to 10,000 feet in a matter of minutes before actually cras
62 StudentFlyer: Thanks for that info, Zkpilot. I do vaguely remember that conspiracy about how the captain somehow decapitated the F/O. But how did the captain snugg
63 Zvezda: Snuggling an axe could be dangerous. Smuggling an axe would be unnecessary, because there is always an axe in the cockpit anyway (safety equipment).
64 StudentFlyer: hmm.. Ic.. Well, I probably have never put any attention on the safety equipment list in the cockpit or in the aircraft anyway, so thanks for that in
65 Zvezda: It varies somewhat depending on the country of registration but, generally, in addition to the obvious stuff like fire extinguisher and smoke hoods t
66 777fan: I don't claim to be an expert but, I'm not sure anyone had any business flying in that weather. Winds were upwards of 50kts at the airport and, while
67 Kiwiandrew: having flown SQ on a number of occasions I generally have great respect for the airline , however , one flight on an AKL-SIN leg did dent my faith som
68 StudentFlyer: Well, these days you can almost basically do anything, including choosing your seat over the net, and given what you saw was probably around the exit
69 Kiwiandrew: no , I didn't come to that conclusion just by looking at them , I came to that conclusion because I heard the cabin crew trying to talk to them witho
70 StudentFlyer: Hmm.. okay, my bad. Now that I know where you're coming from, it is inappropriate for SQ to actually do such things. Once, as a kid (about 4 years old
71 TinkerBelle: I don't know about SQ but most airlines ask you if you're capable of perfoming those duties in case of an emergency when they scan in your ticket at
72 RIHNOSAUR: Philsquares:"If it's a 744 it's a long run. I can tell you most pilots wouldn't answer the intercom at that time, they would be starting the takeoff r
73 DJ738: I must agree with all above statements 100%. And as a fellow New Zealand based cabin crew member (albeit for his airline's opposition) I wish to stan
74 PhilSquares: Well, I hate to be the naysayer....But let me give you a scenario: You are the Capt of a 744(fill in the blank) you are at MTOW and you are right at
75 RIHNOSAUR: ok well, I mean, I am not pilot (I assume you are)so I can totally see your point of view...and as far as I know, if this is an accepted practice...t
76 DJ738: ...completely acceptable to not respond at that very moment, of course take off roll and rotation will be completed in such a circumstance. I would h
77 DJ738: MTOW is Maximum Take Off Weight - the heaviest an aircraft is allowed, by design, to be and therefore able to take off. V1 is the 'speed of no return
78 PhilSquares: Maximum take off weight, either structural or performance limited for a specific temp and runway. Again, not to sound like an elitist, but I remember
79 Nzrich: Was not getting at SQ at all when i made that comment ...about captain being king !!! As for Cabin CIC giving it in error than thats there fault or c
80 Nzrich: Well i follow our safety procedures so i would never be in that predicament .. I only give the cabin clearance once my crew are seated and thats afte
81 PhilSquares: Please understand that I don't doubt your intentions. However, people are human and mistakes do happen, especially if habit patterns are disrupted. I
82 Wdleiser: I do not mean to sound racist here. But, could it have been that the TPE ATC meant 5L, but the SQ pilots heard 5R. I know that some asian people have
83 TinkerBelle: You sure haven't read the whole thread. The flight crew lived to tell their side of the story and the captain was fired by SQ.
84 DJ738: Thats ALL I'm asking. By putting "communicate" at the VERY bottom of your list, I daresay thats in contradiction to my airline's CRM training... But
85 Nzrich: Hey im human and i make mistakes .. There is always pressure in jobs BUT my attitude on somethings is to go by the book .. Especially where safety is
86 PhilSquares: Take a look at the CFIT statistics and you'll see why it's so important to "fly the aircraft" first. You can give all the information you have to the
87 Nzrich: I believe what DJ738 is saying is that he expects the pilots to fly the plane and when its safe to do so then notify the crew .. After all there is n
88 DJ738: Thats exactly all I'm saying / expecting, and I really did think that I had said it quite clearly. It would seem not... Thank you NZrich.
89 Nzrich: Hey no problem DJ738 yes you did put it clearly!!!!!
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