Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Question About JetBlue Crew Rest  
User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3566 times:

So I was looking at their new service announced today and wondered how they do this:

JFK-JAX:
8:20am – 11:05am
1:30pm – 4:10pm
7:55pm – 10:45pm

JAX-JFK:
6:20am – 8:45am (eff. 6/16)
11:45am – 2:10pm
4:50pm – 7:15pm

Does the crew that arrives at 10:45 fly out at 6:20 AM? If so, isn't that less than the minimum overnight hours (by the time they get to the hotel, and waking up early to get to the airport)?

Or do the overnight two crews for ~12 hours each?

21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineB6JFKH81 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2877 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3566 times:

Good question on that one! I don't have the foggiest on that. I give our crew schedulers a lot of credit for figuring that stuff out. I haven't even received confirmation that a/c will RON at JAX yet but I am guessing they will based on that schedule.


"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
User currently offlineCrogalski From United States of America, joined May 2005, 514 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3517 times:

they'd go out on either 11:45am – 2:10pm
4:50pm – 7:15pm


unless they're off

atleast that's how it is from TPA here..

They'll come in on flight 29, and leave on 856 (when its active) or now, 60, the following day.

[Edited 2006-03-17 18:14:18]


A319 A320 B717 B727 B737 B747 B757 B767 C152 C172 DC9 E145 E190 MD88 PA28 | B6 CO DL FL NK NW LO TW
User currently offlineNASBWI From Bahamas, joined Feb 2005, 1307 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3469 times:

I'm more inclined to agree with Crogalski. I believe the crew that arrives in JAX at 11.05am will overnight and take the first flight back at 6.20am, and the last crew to arrive will take the second flight out at 11.45am...I might be wrong, but that's usually how it happened at the carrier I worked for previously.


Fierce, Fabulous, and Flawless ;)
User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3358 times:

Quoting NASBWI (Reply 3):
I'm more inclined to agree with Crogalski. I believe the crew that arrives in JAX at 11.05am will overnight and take the first flight back at 6.20am, and the last crew to arrive will take the second flight out at 11.45am...I might be wrong, but that's usually how it happened at the carrier I worked for previously.

Don't you mean the crew that arrives in JAX at 4:10 PM? It must be very costly to overnight two crews at many of these cities that have 6AM flights out...


User currently offlineNASBWI From Bahamas, joined Feb 2005, 1307 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 3266 times:

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 4):
Don't you mean the crew that arrives in JAX at 4:10 PM?

Nope. If you think about it (I know, it seems confusing; I gotta give props to crew scheduling lol), the second flight out of JAX is actually the first flight out of JFK on a return. Therefore, the crew that gets off that flight will overnight, and the second flight out of JFK that leaves around 4pm is just a turn, no crew change. So essentially, the first crew in from JFK takes the first flight out, and the last crew in takes the second flight out. The 4.50pm (last) departure from JAX would therefore be a turn.

I dunno how expensive it is to get a few more hotel rooms on a contract (that's a whole 'nuther department lol), but I'm sure it's cheaper in the long run than letting a plane sit for hours in JFK. By overnighting another crew, you can have more utilization of the aircraft (i.e. add another flight to the schedule). However, since the 6.20am JAX-JFK isn't supposed to start till June, my guess is that there might only be one overnighting crew to begin with.



Fierce, Fabulous, and Flawless ;)
User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 3239 times:

Quoting NASBWI (Reply 5):
Nope. If you think about it (I know, it seems confusing; I gotta give props to crew scheduling lol), the second flight out of JAX is actually the first flight out of JFK on a return. Therefore, the crew that gets off that flight will overnight, and the second flight out of JFK that leaves around 4pm is just a turn, no crew change. So essentially, the first crew in from JFK takes the first flight out, and the last crew in takes the second flight out. The 4.50pm (last) departure from JAX would therefore be a turn.

Thanks for the info...So why make the 4:50 departure from JAX a turn? Wouldn't it make sense to have a turn on the first flight?


User currently offlineInTheSky74 From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 546 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 3224 times:

They will probably do the first flight of the day as a turn. Most cities have the first flight of the day with the same crew in/out, and they do layovers for the remaining flights (hotel costs are lower, etc).

In regards to layovers, it would probably be cheaper to have layovers in JAX than in NY, so if the crew isn't based in NY, they could have them spend a night in JAX and it would be a lower cost to the airline.

Rob


User currently offlineNASBWI From Bahamas, joined Feb 2005, 1307 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 3199 times:

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 6):
Wouldn't it make sense to have a turn on the first flight?

Perhaps, but then one has to consider other legs of that trip. Scheduling has to take all this into account; so the seemingly senseless early overnight (morning till morning) might actually work really well with the rest of the pairing. I'm sure underneath the surface there's a method to their madness  smile . Then again, I could be waaay off base.



Fierce, Fabulous, and Flawless ;)
User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 3090 times:

Quoting NASBWI (Reply 8):
Perhaps, but then one has to consider other legs of that trip. Scheduling has to take all this into account; so the seemingly senseless early overnight (morning till morning) might actually work really well with the rest of the pairing. I'm sure underneath the surface there's a method to their madness . Then again, I could be waaay off base.

Nope, that sounds right...Are you a jetBlue F/A?

I wonder how scheduling decides which flights/routes to put together....Is it all done by computer these days?


User currently offlineJjbiv From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1226 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3069 times:

Does B6 have stand-up (or high-speed) overnights where a crew is technically on duty all night (albeit at a hotel most of the time)? If they do, this would allow the last inbound crew to work the first outbound flight back home.

Joe


User currently offlineNASBWI From Bahamas, joined Feb 2005, 1307 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 3017 times:

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 9):
Nope, that sounds right...Are you a jetBlue F/A?

I am, but I was formerly with DH, and scheduling kinda did the same thing with our JAX overnights (we had 3 daily flights there as well). Thing was, the JAX overnight was only one part of a pairing, which is why I figured B6 might be doing the same thing (with regard to scheduling).



Fierce, Fabulous, and Flawless ;)
User currently offlineNASBWI From Bahamas, joined Feb 2005, 1307 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 3010 times:

Quoting Jjbiv (Reply 10):
Does B6 have stand-up (or high-speed) overnights where a crew is technically on duty all night (albeit at a hotel most of the time)?

I'm not sure if B6 has stand-ups, but they do have reduced rest overnights at times (usually due to a delay on the inbound flight).



Fierce, Fabulous, and Flawless ;)
User currently offlineJFKLGANYC From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3382 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 2927 times:

Stand up would be pushing it.

7:55pm – 10:45pm

6:20am – 8:45am

You have a show time for the 755pm flight at 705pm. You would not be off duty until 9 am at JFK . . . block-in time +15 minutes for postflight/debrief.

That's 13:55 on duty with 4hr 15 flight.

Can be scheduled up to 8 flight hours . . . so that's not a problem.

But they can't schedule you to go over 14 hrs flight time. You can go up to 16 hrs due to weather if in the air.

Either way, 13:55 minutes is pushing it and doesn't leave much room for error. If that outbound flight is delayed even 1 hr, the crew will time out and the flight will cancel.

Stand-ups are tricky and usually reserved for shorter flights with even shorter overnights.

PJ


User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 2901 times:

Could somebody explain standups and what routes jetBlue does this on?

User currently offlineNASBWI From Bahamas, joined Feb 2005, 1307 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks ago) and read 2867 times:

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 14):
Could somebody explain standups and what routes jetBlue does this on?

A standup is where a crew works the last flight in, then the first flight out, leaving very little rest time (less than 8hrs). DH had a few of those between IAD and EWR, CLT, and PIT. Therefore, though they are technically overnighting, it's considered a day trip, and they are paid block time for the entire time they're gone. Again, I don't know if B6 has any of those in their schedule, but I'm sure I'll find out soon.



Fierce, Fabulous, and Flawless ;)
User currently offlineJFKLGANYC From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3382 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2790 times:

"A standup is where a crew works the last flight in, then the first flight out, leaving very little rest time (less than 8hrs). DH had a few of those between IAD and EWR, CLT, and PIT. Therefore, though they are technically overnighting, it's considered a day trip, and they are paid block time for the entire time they're gone. Again, I don't know if B6 has any of those in their schedule, but I'm sure I'll find out soon."

That is sort of incorrect. The crew IS NOT overnighting. It is continuous on duty time, thus duty limitations apply. The crew never goes into rest.

PJ


User currently offlineNASBWI From Bahamas, joined Feb 2005, 1307 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2707 times:

Perhaps I should've clarified; they're not "overnighting" but rather spending the night. They do stay at a hotel, but if anything should come up (such as a ferry flight), they are obligated to respond immediately. So yes, they are on continuous duty.


Fierce, Fabulous, and Flawless ;)
User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2620 times:

Quoting NASBWI (Reply 17):
They do stay at a hotel, but if anything should come up (such as a ferry flight), they are obligated to respond immediately.

Off topic, but how does it work when you are a reserve pilot or F/A? Do you spend your shift at JFK, or at your home in the vicinity, or what? How often are reserves called up?


User currently offlineNASBWI From Bahamas, joined Feb 2005, 1307 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 4 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2497 times:

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 18):
how does it work when you are a reserve pilot or F/A? Do you spend your shift at JFK, or at your home in the vicinity, or what? How often are reserves called up?

Heya RJ...I'm not sure about the pilots, but as for F/A's, on reserve duty you should always be within 2 hours of your base airport (whether it's home or a crashpad, etc). If they call you when you're on duty, and you can't make it to the airport within the specified time, you can get into trouble.

As for how often they're called, it varies. I just completed my first week of reserve at B6, and I'm excited to report that I was used every day (six days of reserve, and got scheduled for a 4-day and 2-day trip - A320 F3). It's not always the case though, and it usually depends on what's available, and where you "sit" in the buckets (how many are with you on reserve, and how legal they are to fly certain trips). So I guess I really just lucked out. Cheers!



Fierce, Fabulous, and Flawless ;)
User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 4 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2451 times:

Quoting NASBWI (Reply 19):
As for how often they're called, it varies. I just completed my first week of reserve at B6,

Congrats!

Quoting NASBWI (Reply 19):
and got scheduled for a 4-day and 2-day trip - A320 F3).

Cool, now is that because an F/A called in sick or what? So were you a sub in the crew or was the whole crew reserve?

What trips did you take?

Quoting NASBWI (Reply 19):
). It's not always the case though,

But you are paid when you are on reserve, right?


User currently offlineJeff G From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 436 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (8 years 4 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2308 times:

JetBlue doesn't have any high speeds, standups, CDO's or whatever you want to call them. Generally, for a situation like JAX, there are two crews overnighting and one plane. One crew brings in an afternoon flight and departs first thing in the morning. The other crew brings in the last flight and departs the next afternoon.

Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Question About JetBlue's Directv posted Sat Apr 17 2004 07:33:51 by Aeroflot777
Question About Alitalia Crew Bases posted Thu Apr 8 2004 10:15:35 by Kuba74
Question About JetBlue's Inaugural Service posted Wed Apr 16 2003 05:01:37 by SR 103
Question About SWA Cabin Crew Dress Code posted Sat Dec 10 2005 01:14:53 by AirWillie6475
VS Cabin Crew - Question About A346 posted Wed Jan 19 2005 01:24:04 by WindowSeat
Question About Crew Schedulers posted Mon Nov 15 2004 04:59:17 by US653
Overhead Crew Rest Question posted Sat Mar 27 2004 17:02:24 by Mlsrar
NW: Crew Rest Question posted Sat Mar 20 2004 19:44:47 by FA4UA
Attn JetBlue Crew! Schedule Question! posted Thu Mar 4 2004 03:54:14 by JBLUA320
Question About Crew Time posted Fri Oct 10 2003 22:46:13 by 767Lover