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Tam To Fly FOR-BEL-MAO-MIA Daily  
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 5403 times:
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TAM is really trying to upgrade their international operations.

This week they announce the upgrade on JFK route from 4x to daily, a weekly additional service GRU-FLN-EZE (with A32A) and today they announce a new flight: Daily Fortaleza-Miami with stops at BEL and MAO !

The flight will be operated with A320 and will allow connections from TAM's BSB hub.

It will be the third daily flight to Miami. Tam nowadays become the bigger Brazilian US-Brazil provider with 28 weekly flights as Varig nowadays runs only 18 weekly flights due to the lack of aircrafts.

Schedulle will be released on monday, the flight is not loaded on the system but a Press Release has been published on their Investor Relations area (www.tam.com.br)

I believe Tam it's making a smart move as Fortaleza become a strong destination in northeast, and the stop at MAO will provide a very good connection (as well as cargo) for Manaus electronics industry.


Felipe


New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
51 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMD90fan From Bahamas, joined Jul 2005, 2931 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 5381 times:

Nice to see N.E Brasil finally get some MIA service(or even US service). But thats kinda alot of stops though IMO , but these int'l additions only seem right since TAM is the largest Brasil domestic carrier now  biggrin 


http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7632 posts, RR: 43
Reply 2, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 5365 times:

I am very glad that JJ is expanding its international routes. I think it is a great step to see JJ doing MAO-MIA. Hopefully one day we will see MAO-CUN.


Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineLuisca From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 5339 times:

I guess this is a reaction the CM's announced daily PTY-MAO flight.

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33273 posts, RR: 71
Reply 4, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 5280 times:

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 1):
Nice to see N.E Brasil finally get some MIA service(or even US service). But thats kinda alot of stops though IMO , but these int'l additions only seem right since TAM is the largest Brasil domestic carrier now

FOR-BEL-MAO-MIA is still a lot quicker than the next best option, FOR-GRU-MIA. And if demand proove strong enough, the potential is there to split the flights up. For example, have MIA-MAO-BSB and MIA-BEL-FOR.



a.
User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 5248 times:

This is really a no-brainer. The NE of Brazil could easily have supported a narrowbody service to the US when a couple of cities are combined. A Brazilian carrier has the advantage because they can carry traffic between the two cities necessary to tie the route together in Brazil.

I'm not sure if the US-Brazil treaty limits the number of codeshare flights by a US carrier but if it doesn't AA can put their code on the fight (and this will connect w/ JJ codeshare flights operated by AA in MIA).


User currently offlineRafabozzolla From Brazil, joined Apr 2000, 1239 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 5238 times:

Not to mention the equipment upgrade on the GRU-SCL route from A320 to A332!

User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 7, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 5203 times:
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Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 4):
And if demand proove strong enough, the potential is there to split the flights up. For example, have MIA-MAO-BSB and MIA-BEL-FOR.

I have the same filling, and if the R$ continue to valuate in front of US$, be sure that Brazilians will be again 1 million visitors per year at the US (more than 60% to Miami and Orlando).

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 5):
This is really a no-brainer. The NE of Brazil could easily have supported a narrowbody service to the US when a couple of cities are combined.

I agree. But Tam bought a lot of A320 probably looking for Varig's bankruptcy. Also i strong doubt they expect the huge increase on Gol's domestic operations. Tam is competitive on short flights due to it's FF program, but for medium range flights, as it's hub is CGH (and their main plane, the A320 face restrictions there for medium range), Gol become a fantastic competitor. I believe they start to look more abroad in order to use the A320's they will receive this year, as Varig keep flying (yesterday they announce Alvarez & Marsal as their new consultants).

Quoting Rafabozzolla (Reply 6):
Not to mention the equipment upgrade on the GRU-SCL route from A320 to A332!

Also GIG-EZE and the improvement on it's partnership to a c/s with Taca to LIM. During the World Cup, some CDG flights will be extended to Germany (HAM, MUC and more two destinations) for operators.

Quoting Luisca (Reply 3):
I guess this is a reaction the CM's announced daily PTY-MAO flight

I imagine how CM receive this news as well as LAB. Tam take the advantage of the FF program as well as the domestic network.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2951 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 5194 times:

I assume AA will be code-sharing on this flight too?

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33273 posts, RR: 71
Reply 9, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 5155 times:

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 8):
I assume AA will be code-sharing on this flight too?

Yes, most likely. They codeshared on TAM's old BSB-MAO-MIA route.



a.
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 10, posted (8 years 9 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 5082 times:
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Schedulle:

JJ8074
FOR 0925 BEL 1125 1150 MAO 1250 1405 MIA 1920

JJ8075
MIA 2030 MAO 0135 0235 BEL 0535 0605 FOR 0800

Probably will be operated with A32A (12C 144Y) and Tam will need to convert one more A320 Full Y to C+Y.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineBrasuca From Brazil, joined Mar 2004, 717 posts, RR: 10
Reply 11, posted (8 years 9 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 5067 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 10):
Probably will be operated with A32A (12C 144Y) and Tam will need to convert one more A320 Full Y to C+Y.

So do you believe they'll use only one aircraft for this flight (even though they arrive on time for the next flight in FOR)?



Varig, Varig, Varig
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 12, posted (8 years 9 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 5051 times:
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Quoting Brasuca (Reply 11):
So do you believe they'll use only one aircraft for this flight (even though they arrive on time for the next flight in FOR)?

Yes. They could rotate the plane at FOR but TAM does not keep business service to FOR, so, no planes on Y+C available at both MAO and FOR to rotate with the FOR-MIA plane. The plane will stay around 5h30 on ground.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineJJMNGR From Brazil, joined May 2004, 1018 posts, RR: 15
Reply 13, posted (8 years 9 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 5039 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 7):
I agree. But Tam bought a lot of A320 probably looking for Varig's bankruptcy. Also i strong doubt they expect the huge increase on Gol's domestic operations. Tam is competitive on short flights due to it's FF program, but for medium range flights, as it's hub is CGH (and their main plane, the A320 face restrictions there for medium range), Gol become a fantastic competitor. I believe they start to look more abroad in order to use the A320's they will receive this year, as Varig keep flying (yesterday they announce Alvarez & Marsal as their new consultants).

Felipe, Sorry to say but your thoughts are wrong. TAM budged for forthcoming years were done, considering VARIG surviving in the market and GOL´s expansion.
VARIG situation was (and still is) tremendously complicated and should have already closed their doors. As did not, is was previewed they would stay arround.


User currently offlineJrosa From Brazil, joined Jun 2005, 367 posts, RR: 11
Reply 14, posted (8 years 9 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 5009 times:

I just hope that TAM did not do as VARIG did in the early 90's. VARIG expected that VASP would run into bankruptcy in 92, when it had its first crisis. However, VASP survived and VARIG got stuck with a bunch of aircraft, most of them with above the market lease rates.

User currently offlineLufthansi From Germany, joined May 2002, 454 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (8 years 9 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 4962 times:

Hi there!

Rumors say that TAM also wants to beat VARIG on the routes from Brazil to Paris. Instead of the two daily flights they're offering today they want to upgrade to 4 daily flights with their A330! They're just waiting for the deliveries... VARIG changes the MD11 to their 777 on some days now. Well, I appreciate it as it gives job security to my company. And you've got to love the flight crews! Never met so fine guys and girls! Come on and get your new jets! I can't wait to serve you!



Life starts at take-off!
User currently offlineRafabozzolla From Brazil, joined Apr 2000, 1239 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 years 9 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4935 times:

Lipe,

Do you know how many of TAM's A320 have biz class? Are those planes never used on domestic routes? I know I've never flown in one (except when took TAM to EZE last June).


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 17, posted (8 years 9 months 6 days ago) and read 4905 times:
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Quoting Rafabozzolla (Reply 16):
Do you know how many of TAM's A320 have biz class? Are those planes never used on domestic routes? I know I've never flown in one (except when took TAM to EZE last June).

Rafa, they have 5 A32A (MZN, MZO, MZP, MZR and MZS) used on:

GRU-EZE-GRU (2), GIG-GRU-EZE / GIG-SSA-MCZ-SSA-GIG / GIG-EZE-GIG (1) , GRU-SCL-GRU (1), GRU-GIG GIG-SSA-REC-NAT-REC-SSA-GIG GIG-GRU (1).

When runing domestic flights, the flights are all Y and the C seats are available for their top FF customers (Fidelidade Vermelho / Red Fidelity).

I believe they will add another 1 to the fleet in order to run the FOR-MIA flight.

Quoting Lufthansi (Reply 15):
Rumors say that TAM also wants to beat VARIG on the routes from Brazil to Paris. Instead of the two daily flights they're offering today they want to upgrade to 4 daily flights with their A330!

Lufthansi, if Tam do this, they will need two more A332 that are nowadays wet leased to Etihad and will works only if they get additional frequencies on the bilateral (something that AF is looking too in order to improve GIG-CDG and GRU-CDG both to 2x daily each) and at least one daily light flight (could be a REC-CDG-REC during the day).
Nowadays (without any addition of planes) they could run a 3rd flight using the plane which runs GRU-REC to fly from REC to CDG and sending one plane from CDG to REC and after REC-GRU. But, again, they face the limits of the bilateral.


Quoting Jrosa (Reply 14):
I just hope that TAM did not do as VARIG did in the early 90's. VARIG expected that VASP would run into bankruptcy in 92, when it had its first crisis. However, VASP survived and VARIG got stuck with a bunch of aircraft, most of them with above the market lease rates.

Hi Jose, i believe is quite different this time. The market is growing while in 1990-1993 due to Collor (Brazilian former president who faces impeachment) bad decisions the country face a depression and many people keep their money blocked. The economy face a drop on GDP during those years of around -5% and inflation was around 30% per month!

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineJrosa From Brazil, joined Jun 2005, 367 posts, RR: 11
Reply 18, posted (8 years 9 months 6 days ago) and read 4887 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 17):
Hi Jose, i believe is quite different this time. The market is growing while in 1990-1993 due to Collor (Brazilian former president who faces impeachment) bad decisions the country face a depression and many people keep their money blocked. The economy face a drop on GDP during those years of around -5% and inflation was around 30% per month!

Your post just confirms that VARIG management (Fundacao Rubem Berta) is fully incompetent and is digging the company grave since early 90's!
At that time VARIG got a huge overcapacity due to all aircraft it got, if I am not wrong at that time VARIG had:

B747-400, -300, -200;
MD11 (brand new);
DC-10-30;
B767-300ER, -200ER;
B737-500, -400, -300, -200; and last but not least
B727-200;
A300-B4, until late 1990.


User currently offlineJog From Netherlands, joined Jul 2005, 273 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (8 years 9 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4879 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 17):
Rafa, they have 5 A32A (MZN, MZO, MZP, MZR and MZS) used on:

GRU-EZE-GRU (2), GIG-GRU-EZE / GIG-SSA-MCZ-SSA-GIG / GIG-EZE-GIG (1) , GRU-SCL-GRU (1), GRU-GIG GIG-SSA-REC-NAT-REC-SSA-GIG GIG-GRU (1).

[...]

I believe they will add another 1 to the fleet in order to run the FOR-MIA flight.

As they will do GRU-SCL-GRU with the A330 from end of march they could use this plane for the FOR-MIA flight, or is the plane already scheduled for another flight?


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 20, posted (8 years 9 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4838 times:
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Quoting Jog (Reply 19):
As they will do GRU-SCL-GRU with the A330 from end of march they could use this plane for the FOR-MIA flight, or is the plane already scheduled for another flight?

They do not announce any other flight yet. You're 100% right, the SCL plane will be available with the upgrade to A332 and can be used for the FOR-MIA.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineJJMNGR From Brazil, joined May 2004, 1018 posts, RR: 15
Reply 21, posted (8 years 9 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4834 times:

What is being negotiated; is to start a daily operation to LON, not decided if LHR or LGW. The aircrafts leased to Ethyhad will come back for other routes than CDG.
The route to CDG is so consolidated, it would be better to invest in other routes and LON is ahead.


User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7632 posts, RR: 43
Reply 22, posted (8 years 9 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4828 times:

It will be great to see JJ flying to England. Any chance JJ will codeshare with VS or BA? If it does codeshare with BA, that could be a sign of it getting closer to oneworld.


Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineRafabozzolla From Brazil, joined Apr 2000, 1239 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (8 years 9 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4782 times:

London, really?

I know that London has been historically a high yielding destination, but it is probably one of the thinnest Brazil-Europe markets. Both RG and BA run the flight between the two countries only once a day and, in both cases, some flights continue onwards (BA does GRU-EZE 4xweek and RG does LHR-CPH 3xweek) so would there be space for a third competitor?

Wouldn't it be wiser to fly to MAD (if the Oneworld relationship is actually happening IB could offer tons of connections) or somewhere else with higher total number of pax?


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 24, posted (8 years 9 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4756 times:
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Quoting EddieDude (Reply 22):
It will be great to see JJ flying to England. Any chance JJ will codeshare with VS or BA?

Hi Eddie, Tam has a funny situation. They use BA lounge at MIA and VS at JFK. Also some news, AA will cut JJ flight code from GIG-MIA flights very soon. I'm just confused about Tam c/s, anything could happen.

Quoting Rafabozzolla (Reply 23):
I know that London has been historically a high yielding destination, but it is probably one of the thinnest Brazil-Europe markets. Both RG and BA run the flight between the two countries only once a day and, in both cases, some flights continue onwards (BA does GRU-EZE 4xweek and RG does LHR-CPH 3xweek) so would there be space for a third competitor?

I believe there's market for 4 daily flights between Brazil and England as UK as you comment, is bad used for connections (LIS, MAD, CDG and FRA keep more services than UK to/from Brazil). And if Tam get frequencies, probably BA or VS will run 7 more frequencies too.
At CERNAI, some european markets are under negotiations: Spain, France and UK.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
25 EddieDude : That is indeed interesting. Seems like JJ is not in a hurry to choose an alliance... who knows, maybe they never will! Speaking of which, how is the
26 Jog : They renewed and extended the codeshare agreement with AF/KLM at the end of last year and Fidelidade members can earn points on all AF flights except
27 MAH4546 : It really isn't that interesting. It simply has to do with geography. British Airways operates the a club at Concourse A at MIA, which TAM uses, so T
28 2travel2know : I totally agree with you! Then I would like to see how would JJ react if CM is to fly PTY-BEL (E190), PTY-FOR/REC/SSA/BSB (B737-700) nonstop someday.
29 JJMNGR : The 320´s have proper range. It is not a brand new route, but the extention to MIA of a domestic service TAM already has, but with an international f
30 MAH4546 : Yet it will still save as much as 4-5 hours off stopping GRU. BEL-MIA-BEL is at the limits of the A320's range, it might be tough. FOR-MiA-FOR is out
31 Rafabozzolla : I wonder if, for other points in NE (REC/NAT/MCZ/SSA), it would still be an advantage to take this flight (through FOR or even BSB-MAO) instead of fly
32 2travel2know : This means that BEL-MIA-BEL is OK for A319. Does JJ have any A319?
33 PPVRA : Yup, but they use them out of SDU because it cannot handle the A320. I doubt they would be willing to use such a small aircraft in such a long trip,
34 LipeGIG : They are preparing an A320 with a performance kit in order to use this plane into SDU-CGH route. And TAM use the A319 at BEL (CGH-GIG-BEL-GIG-CGH). A
35 Luisde8cd : No hope on seeing JJ in CCS this year? Either from GRU or MAO? It would be very nice to see JJ flying MAO-CCS-MIA-CCS-MAO (if bilaterals allow it). Sa
36 JJMNGR : TAM has 13 A319 in the fleet.
37 EddieDude : All of them in one-class configuration by the way.
38 2travel2know : One should take into consideration that the nearest U.S. Consulate to FOR/BEL/MAO is in REC, If JJ thinks that Northern Brazilians will flock to MIA j
39 PPVRA : I've read about that in a very old article (4 years old IIRC, don't remember the source). . . but I haven't heard anything about A320s at SDU so far.
40 N1120A : The A320 doesn't have a chance on MIA-BEL-MIA. MIA-MAO-MIA is not an issue, however. AA could throw a 757 on MIA-BEL-MIA, MIA-FOR-MIA or MIA-BSB-MIA
41 TP727 : I think the flight will do just fine. About three months ago i flew MAO-MIA with LAB on a 767-300 and the flight was near full in both classes, and t
42 BSBIsland : AA is already using all its slots of the bilateral agreement on GRU/GIG flights. I believe they flew this route (MAO-BEL-MIA and BEL-MAO-MIA) with th
43 Incitatus : MIA-BEL-MIA does not have a chance. BEL is not a tourist destination and as a generator of business traffic is mediocre. BEL does not even have a non
44 2travel2know : Then a daily FOR-BEL-MIA on a A319 type aircraft could work. If another tourist destination is needed to support such a flight, squeeze SLZ between B
45 BigGSFO : I would assume Brasilian airlines have the same bilateral restrictions as the US carriers do. Thus, where did/is JJ getting the slots to operate this
46 BSBIsland : American carriers are using all the slots available, the Brazilian not. I don´t know how many slots are there for each side ( and if it´s the same
47 MAH4546 : BEL has supported non-stops to MIA in the past just fine with Varig. In fact, before Varig started cutting long-haul flights from secondary Brazilian
48 Post contains links MAH4546 : According to TAM's US website, the flight will be an A330-200. I have a feeling it is a typo, though. A330 is too much passenger capacity for a daily
49 LipeGIG : 105 weekly flights. Brazil is using only: 28 TAM (21 MIA, 7 JFK) and 27 Varig (13 MIA, 10 JFK, 4 LAX). TAM figures includes the new FOR-MIA flight. U
50 Incitatus : At some point in the past it stopped working. The triangular flight for most of its duration was a weekly flight and I think twice a week briefly. BE
51 Hardiwv : Agree. There plans for MAO-CCS F100. I think both COPA and TAM could keep their MAO operations. TAM has an excellent pax base in Brazil and COPA coun
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