747OrDie From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 63 posts, RR: 0 Posted (13 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3363 times:
Last night 60 minutes re-ran a story about "echilon", a high tech spy network that can capture just about any communication transmission worldwide. They alleged that Boeing "may" have received sensitive proposal information via the network that was intended to go from airbus to Saudi Airlines. Apparently, they theorized that the American Gov't wants their corporations to beat foreign corporations, and so they forwarded the Airbus deal numbers to Boeing execs, allowing them to customize the perfect offer!!
Does any one have any REAL information about this? And, if it is true, what should be done?
Sndp From Belgium, joined Feb 2000, 553 posts, RR: 2 Reply 1, posted (13 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3313 times:
I would recommend not to make big conclusions out of this news, as we do not know whether it is really true. If it is, however, this is again a sign that, although we think the USA are the father and the biggest defenders of the free economy, they are actually only 'free' when it is good for them. Read Flight International from last week, saying that Washington is asking companies not to participate in the A3XX programme; remember them arguing about Airbus receiving money, giving money to Boeing themselve; remember a member of Congress asking to stop giving airlines buying Airbusses new slots at slot restricted airports; .... I can give examples enough. It is time we realize America is not a defender of the free economy in the world, but only when they can make profit out of it. I really hope this news is false. If it isn't, I would, again, be very dissapointed.
Oxygen From Hong Kong, joined Sep 1999, 674 posts, RR: 1 Reply 2, posted (13 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3287 times:
USA was not a big defender of free economy. If you look up in economics books, most chart will show that in terms of 'freedom of economy', USA is only about in the middle, while the least free is North Korea, and the most free is Hong Kong.
Fanofjets From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 1914 posts, RR: 3 Reply 3, posted (13 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3270 times:
All companies spy on their competition to some degree or another, either in house or using experts in the field, and I am sure that both Boeing and Airbus are not exempt here. The real ethical questions arise when people steal intellectual property (e.g., through patent infringement) or otherwise engage in deceptive (and sometimes illegal) practices. I doubt there is any reliable information available to the public to determine whether Boeing (or Airbus) is guilty of such activity; as such, one would do best by presuming innocents unless guilt has been established in a recognized court of law.
The aeroplane has unveiled for us the true face of the earth. -Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Navion From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1002 posts, RR: 1 Reply 4, posted (13 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3256 times:
Just 3 years ago 60 Minutes ran a story about European industrial espionage, with the French being the most involved. It included massive aerospace espionage as well as all of the published aeronautical information by NASA which is available to everyone in the world (such as airfoil design etc.). My my, what's old is new again.
Widebody From Ireland, joined Aug 2000, 1150 posts, RR: 9 Reply 5, posted (13 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3253 times:
.....apparently it's written into the constitution of the FAA that they protect and aid the development of American companies, and this has been suggested as the reason why they are so reluctant to act on NTSB recommendations regarding Boeing problems......
IndianGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 7, posted (13 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3149 times:
Well, it is well known that the US maintains an 'economic-intelligence' wing, which specializes in these kind of dirty games. Apparently, wing technology developed by airbus, has ended up on the 777, couretsy a lot of help from this particular intelligence wing.
And we hear Americans accusing Europeans, Chinese and Indians of 'stealing' their nuclear, missile and aircraft technology! HA!
Navion From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1002 posts, RR: 1 Reply 8, posted (13 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3118 times:
Indian Guy, you obviously have an axe to grind with the U.S. Your last sentence "who would want to steal from thieves" is funny. I guess you think that not only does America not come up with the most advanced technology year in and year out, but they in fact have almost none!!! How else can that be construed?! Also, to imply the "discarded Airbus technology" has shown up on the 777 is a joke. Come on, stop embarassing yourself.
Avion From Bouvet Island, joined May 1999, 2205 posts, RR: 8 Reply 9, posted (13 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3100 times:
Currently european investigators are looking at the Saudi Arabian and other issued. If they find a proof that the Us uses the echelon center for industrial espionage and not for espionage of eastern european countries Germany will revoke the licence for it! \
Tupolev154B2 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1332 posts, RR: 2 Reply 10, posted (13 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3097 times:
A little off-topic, but isn't/wasn't the Echelon system also used to spy on telephone calls and e-mails from individuals? Or was that another system? From 60 Minutes I also heard that several European governments have begun using encryption to get around this spy system; has it been working?