PM From India, joined Feb 2005, 6715 posts, RR: 65 Posted (7 years 2 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2638 times:
Doing a search of the photo database looking for planes I've flown on, I discovered that the D-ABIO I flew on (a 737-500) is the second plane to carry that registration. It was previously on a LH 727-200.
Columba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 6798 posts, RR: 5 Reply 1, posted (7 years 2 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2624 times:
Quoting PM (Thread starter): I had no idea that Germany recycled registrations. It doesn't happen elsewhere, does it?
Many of the D-AB registrations with LH and DE have been used on several aircrafts.
For example D-ABUF was used on the 707 with LH and DE and is now being used on a 767-300.
D-ABOF was originally a 707, too, now it is used on a 757-300.
Many registrations of current 737 where used on the 727 and 737-200.
It is fun to search a.net of LH registrations it gives you great overview of LH fleet development.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
LTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 51 Reply 3, posted (7 years 2 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2613 times:
Quoting PM (Thread starter): I had no idea that Germany recycled registrations. It doesn't happen elsewhere, does it?
Doesn't seem very unusual to me. Germany's register classifies aircraft according to weights, and LH additionally classifies them according to Manufacturer, and this can play an important factor as to why registrations are recycled at LH.
I also remember that D-ABUC was at first a 707 (I believe it was even one of the very rate 707s LH had, which had the Rolls Royce Conway Turbofan), before LH recycled the registration for the 767 currently in service with DE.
Columba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 6798 posts, RR: 5 Reply 4, posted (7 years 2 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2603 times:
Are some of the D-AIxx registrations that have been used with A310s and A300s also been used with different aircrafts e.g. A320 and A330/A340 ? Would be interesting to know.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
PM From India, joined Feb 2005, 6715 posts, RR: 65 Reply 5, posted (7 years 2 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2570 times:
Quoting Columba (Reply 4): Are some of the D-AIxx registrations that have been used with A310s and A300s also been used with different aircrafts e.g. A320 and A330/A340 ? Would be interesting to know.
It doesn't look like it. By the way, doe we know yet what the A380s will have: D-AI?x ?
Jorge1812 From Germany, joined Apr 2004, 3141 posts, RR: 9 Reply 6, posted (7 years 2 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2550 times:
Quoting Columba (Reply 4): Are some of the D-AIxx registrations that have been used with A310s and A300s also been used with different aircrafts e.g. A320 and A330/A340 ? Would be interesting to know.
I think the D-AIC* one's (Condor A-320) have been used on LH's first A-310's
PM From India, joined Feb 2005, 6715 posts, RR: 65 Reply 8, posted (7 years 2 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2502 times:
Quoting IFixPlanes (Reply 7): The registration of the first 3 A380 are D-AIMA, ...MB and ...MC.
Which is exactly what their leased A330-200s were. But why? There are lots of D-AI?x letters that have never been used. Why recycle a letter before you've exhausted the alphabet? Curious.
GodBless From Sweden, joined Apr 2000, 2751 posts, RR: 18 Reply 10, posted (7 years 2 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2475 times:
Quoting PM (Reply 8): Why recycle a letter before you've exhausted the alphabet?
A plane is just a peace of metal and thus they don't really add any emotions to the reg... As long as a certain reg buildup isn't used by two a/c families at once there is no problem. So a "D-ABCD" will never be an a/c "x" while "D-ABCE" is a "y"...
And as said:
B6JFKH81 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2767 posts, RR: 7 Reply 11, posted (7 years 2 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2468 times:
I have a feeling that other countries do this as well. I am sure American Airlines would love to get their hands on the reg. for one of the Cessna 152's I used to fly when it gets retired...N757AA.
"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
Jj From Algeria, joined Jun 2001, 1227 posts, RR: 2 Reply 14, posted (7 years 2 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2399 times:
Completely off topic, but I just saw a Fokker 27-400 with the LH livery. Anyone has any information as to which services it flew, or why they operated just one example?
JJMNGR From Brazil, joined May 2004, 1018 posts, RR: 17 Reply 15, posted (7 years 2 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2398 times:
Quoting Jj (Reply 14): Completely off topic, but I just saw a Fokker 27-400 with the LH livery. Anyone has any information as to which services it flew, or why they operated just one example?
thanks!
Are you sure it was a F27? LH operates some F50, but never a F27. Pls chk.
IFixPlanes From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 238 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (7 years 2 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2341 times:
Quoting PM (Reply 8): There are lots of D-AI?x letters that have never been used. Why recycle a letter before you've exhausted the alphabet? Curious.
The system of giving registrations by LH do not end by seperating Boeing / Airbus with D-AB●● / D-AI●●
Take a look at the small Airbus-Family:
A319 = D-AIL●
A320 = D-AIP● and D-AIQ●
A321 = D-AIR● (-100) and D-AIS● (-200)
I lived in Germany for a while (Potsdam) and have the greatest respect and affection for the country. But I still fail to understand why it is more "efficient" to re-use letters before you've exhausted the alphabet. Is it perhaps something to do with trying to have in use letters which look very different from each other and are therefore less likely to consuse? For example, 'O' and 'D' can look very similar in some fonts on some airliners.
By the way, some of the replies above (for which, many thanks) seem to assume I'm somehow objecting to this practice. I'm not. I'm just trying to understand it.
Quoting IFixPlanes (Reply 17): The system of giving registrations by LH do not end by seperating Boeing / Airbus with D-ABœœ / D-AIœœ
Take a look at the small Airbus-Family:
A319 = D-AILœ
A320 = D-AIPœ and D-AIQœ
A321 = D-AIRœ (-100) and D-AISœ (-200)
Indeed, and very helpful it is too. I don't know of any other way to differentiate an LH A321-100 from -200. (Except, of course, that it's written on the side! )
And I'll admit to falling back on D-ABXx or D-ABEx and D-ABIx or D-ABJx when I see an LH 737 and can't immediately decide whether it's a -300 or -500. For that, I'm grateful!
TS-IOR From Tunisia, joined Oct 2001, 3295 posts, RR: 7 Reply 19, posted (7 years 2 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2290 times:
It is the same for Hapag-Lloyd, D-AHLT...was used for B727 then B737, and D-AHLC for an A300 then an A310. Also many Air Berlin B734s registrations were re-used on B738s.
Jorge1812 From Germany, joined Apr 2004, 3141 posts, RR: 9 Reply 20, posted (7 years 2 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2253 times:
Quoting Jj (Reply 14): Completely off topic, but I just saw a Fokker 27-400 with the LH livery. Anyone has any information as to which services it flew, or why they operated just one example?
Where and when did you saw a LH Fokker 27? They used the one of Contact Air but as far as I know only in Team LH colors.
Visityyj From Canada, joined Jun 2000, 519 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (7 years 2 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2185 times:
Quoting PM (Reply 8): There are lots of D-AI?x letters that have never been used. Why recycle a letter before you've exhausted the alphabet? Curious.
So that the 'last two' of the registration is unique in the fleet and can then be painted on the tail tip and gear doors.
Canada reuses registrations - C-FTJP was a DC-8 and is now an A320 both with Air Canada. Westjet's 737NGs are resuing most of the same registrations they had on the 732s.
PM From India, joined Feb 2005, 6715 posts, RR: 65 Reply 22, posted (7 years 2 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2138 times:
Quoting Visityyj (Reply 21): So that the 'last two' of the registration is unique in the fleet and can then be painted on the tail tip and gear doors.
My first reaction was "That can't be it. If you haven't yet used, say, 'P' (D-xxPx...), why recycle, say, 'M' (D-xxMx....)? You'll get unique two letter codes on the tails either way." But that's just looking at a Boeing or an Airbus (or Avro or whatever) fleet. If you disregard the first two letters (the second of which denotes the manufacturer) then it makes more sense. LH have never (that I can find) used the letter C, G, L, P or R on Boeings (as in D-ABCx, D-ABGx ....). But they have all been used on Airbus models.
So I guess that's the answer. If...
1. Registrations must be D-Axxx (i.e. not D-Bxxx, D-Txxx, or D-(anything)xxx);
2. The second letter must identify the manufacturer;
3. Within an airline (at least within LH) the last two letters must be unique;
Then, sooner or later, you have no choice but to recycle the third letter.
LTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 51 Reply 23, posted (7 years 2 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2131 times:
Quoting PM (Reply 22): 1. Registrations must be D-Axxx (i.e. not D-Bxxx, D-Txxx, or D-(anything)xxx);
This depends on the weight of the aircraft. The German registry requires that all aircraft belonging to a certain weight group get a predeterminded prefix. Thus, D-A*** is used on aircraft which have I believe an MTOW of at least 25,000 kg. There are also special prefixes for helicopters (D-H***) and blimps (D-L***). Gliders have the four digits after the D in numbers if I'm not mistaken.
Quoting PM (Reply 22): 2. The second letter must identify the manufacturer;
Correct. Though curiously, in the case of the MD-11, it doesn't use an M prefix for McDonnell Douglas (as in D-AM**), but rather L (D-AL**). They did use a D Prefix for Douglas (D-AD**) for their PAX DC-10s (same at DE) and the DC-8s which used to be operated by German Cargo for LH Cargo. L is pretty neutral in this case, neither Douglas or Boeing, it's as if they knew MD would soon disappear when they placed their first MD-11F order.
Quoting PM (Reply 22): 3. Within an airline (at least within LH) the last two letters must be unique
That I'm not really sure, and would like some clarification on it.
Columba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 6798 posts, RR: 5 Reply 24, posted (7 years 2 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2130 times:
The first letter after the D- stands for a certain weight of the aircraft, so that all airliners in Germay have a registration beginning with D-Axxx you would not find any airline in Germany with an aircrafts as big as a 737 e.g. using D-Bxxx.
D-Bxx is for small, twin engined props I believe.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
25 PM: So, in reality, ALL airliners will be D-Axxx. Mmm, I wonder if it's a requirement or if it's just a LH in-house thing. Either way, if that wasn't an
26 TS-IOR: LTU did the same, some Tristar registrations has been used for MD11 and A333s !!! Condor A320s are that of Condor and Lufthansa A312s !!!
27 LTU932: Correct. Some smaller propliners can also have D-A*** regs. For example the Saab 2000 old Deutsche BA used to have. The same for the ATR 72s from LH
29 Visityyj: Maybe before your time , but yes all of these have been used on LH 727s or 737s: http://members.tripod.com/spottercrazy/german/d-a/d-ab.htm
30 PM: I knew that if I threw down the challenge someone would prove me wrong! But you're scraping the barrel. Your link shows one-off aeroplanes, not whole
31 Visityyj: Those examples were actually part of "whole fleets". The 727s used up D-ABIA to D-ABIZ and then continued D-ABxI to keep the I part going. Likewise t
32 PM: Exactly. So the letters I quoted weren't used to identify a fleet. There may have been one D-ABCx, for example, but there has never been a fleet of D
34 LTU932: They shouldn't conflict at all, because the DC-10s were prefixed D-AD**, while the 707s and 720s were like all other Boeing aircraft prefixed with D-
35 Visityyj: Not if the last two were to be unique. Which is where we began I believe
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