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LH With Biggest Avro RJ Fleet Worldwide?  
User currently offlineMD 11 From Germany, joined Sep 1999, 195 posts, RR: 1
Posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3587 times:

Hi al,
just flew with LH on an AVRO RJ 85 to Berlin. Very fine plane. I read, that LH (LHregional) has 37 AVROs in their fleet (no other plane of them tops this number!). So, does any operator worldwide has more AVROs ore BAe 146 in service? I suppose not! Any informations?
Greetings,

MD 11

20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineP2philip From Austria, joined Jan 2005, 99 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3569 times:

The only airline which I had in mind was Swiss but I just checked, they only use 18 Avro RJ 85/100.

User currently offlineZRH From Switzerland, joined Nov 1999, 5569 posts, RR: 36
Reply 2, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3569 times:

It probably is. When you count the whole group, then you have to add also the AVROs of Swiss: 22? On Swiss page they have 18 in October 2005, but I think they took over four more since then. Right?

[Edited 2006-03-19 18:06:46]

User currently offlineB742 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 3768 posts, RR: 19
Reply 3, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3549 times:

SN Brussels is the largest Avro/BAe carrier  Smile

SN Brussles has 12 RJ100's, 14 RJ85's and 6 BAe 146's!  Smile

Swiss (Swiss European) have 19 RJ100's and 4 RJ85's  Smile

Luthansa CityLine has 18 RJ85's.

BA Connect has 11 RJ100's and 4 BAe 146's!


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Rob!  wave 


User currently offlineApuneger From Belgium, joined Sep 2000, 3032 posts, RR: 11
Reply 4, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3544 times:

SN BA 'only' has 14 Avro RJ85, 12 RJ100, and 6 BAe 146-200...

Best regards,
Ivan



Ivan Coninx - Brussels Aviation Photography
User currently offlineHBIHLtoEZE From Switzerland, joined Aug 2004, 281 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3525 times:

Don't forget about NW - they have operated 35 RJ85As.

Some of them are probably stored by now, however.

Cheers



Our battered suitcases were piled on the sidewalk again; we had longer ways to go. But no matter, the road is life.
User currently offlineMD 11 From Germany, joined Sep 1999, 195 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3441 times:

B742:
LH regional has 37 AVROs. That includes not only LHCityLine, also a bunch of other small airlines which are all controlled more or less by LH. But you are right, I dont know, if all these 37 AVROs are really property of LH.
Bye,
MD 11


User currently offlineSteph001 From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 315 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3300 times:

Any chance for the Embraer 170 to replace the BAe 146 with LH? I know that Cirrus Airlines, a partner of LH regional, is the fisrt to fly the Embraer 170 in Germany, so I was wondering whether this is a clue for LH's further developement.

User currently onlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7613 posts, RR: 42
Reply 8, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3264 times:

When did the Avro's (and BAe's) enter the LH fleet? Is it possible that it was an Avro the plane that took me from FRA to LCY in July 1995?


Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineTriStar500 From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 4695 posts, RR: 42
Reply 9, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3140 times:

Quoting MD 11 (Reply 6):
LH regional has 37 AVROs. That includes not only LHCityLine, also a bunch of other small airlines which are all controlled more or less by LH. But you are right, I dont know, if all these 37 AVROs are really property of LH.

Following your logic, the LX ARJ are also part of the combined LH fleet, so the size gets even larger.



Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
User currently offlineJohnnybgoode From Germany, joined Jan 2001, 2187 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 3076 times:

Quoting TriStar500 (Reply 9):
I dont know, if all these 37 AVROs are really property of LH.

All CityLine Avros are leased from BAe. Initially, they were bought directly from the manufacturer. In the meantime, LH and BAe agreed on a sale/lease-back deal.
Don't know if that applies to the EW and EN BAe's as well.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 8):
Is it possible that it was an Avro the plane that took me from FRA to LCY in July 1995?

If it was a jet, it must have been an Avro. If it was a prop, it's probably been a Dash 8.



If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
User currently offlineCRJ900 From Norway, joined Jun 2004, 2216 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 3026 times:
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Quoting Steph001 (Reply 7):
Any chance for the Embraer 170 to replace the BAe 146 with LH? I know that Cirrus Airlines, a partner of LH regional, is the fisrt to fly the Embraer 170 in Germany, so I was wondering whether this is a clue for LH's further developement.

Well, several A.netters have written in other posts that LH doesn't seem too keen on the E170-E190-family...

LH has ordered 12 x 84-seat CRJ900, but the delivery schedule is not determined yet as scople-clause discussions are taking place. LH subsidiaries are the largest CRJ user in Europe, with 77 aircraft flying plus 12 on order, so perhaps the CRJ900 and CRJ900X are the preferred choice for replacing the Avros, as the CRJ serves LH well and pax seem to like them (otherwise they would refuse to fly on them...).



Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
User currently offlineJohnnybgoode From Germany, joined Jan 2001, 2187 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 2922 times:

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 11):
so perhaps the CRJ900 and CRJ900X are the preferred choice for replacing the Avros, as the CRJ serves LH well and pax seem to like them

nope, the ARJs will not leave the fleet, but some CR1 will.

the 12 CR9s on order will replace 20 CR1s that will leave the fleet.
basically, the CR9 deal could be considered a short-term solution as in today's environment (LCCs all around), 50-seaters are not that economical anymore.
by phasing out some 50-seat CR1s, this allows LH to lower to some extent its seat miles in the regional fleet.

also, i doubt that this deal required a major investment by LH. first of all, Bombardier will take back 20 CR1s, and also, the CR9 is not a big seller, so Bombardier certainly wanted to place the aircraft LH, giving them a good deal.

but speaking of a short-term solution: the same was said about the CR7 and they are still around and will be around for much longer.

my feeling is that someway down the road LH/CLH will stop operating anything below 70 or 90 seats or so and other LH Regional operators will do this job.



If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
User currently offlineTriStar500 From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 4695 posts, RR: 42
Reply 13, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 2909 times:

There were rumors regarding part of LH's CRJ9 order going to Air One (AP). Would there be any clause prohibiting the use of CR9's operated by AP on behalf of LH in order to circumvent the scope clauses?


Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8601 posts, RR: 13
Reply 14, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 2880 times:
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Quoting B742 (Reply 3):
SN Brussels is the largest Avro/BAe carrier

SN Brussles has 12 RJ100's, 14 RJ85's and 6 BAe 146's!

Swiss (Swiss European) have 19 RJ100's and 4 RJ85's

Luthansa CityLine has 18 RJ85's.

... but then again Swiss is a subsidiary of LH so maybe we should be counting them altogether for a total of 41 a/c  Wink



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineJohnnybgoode From Germany, joined Jan 2001, 2187 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 2796 times:

Quoting TriStar500 (Reply 13):
There were rumors regarding part of LH's CRJ9 order going to Air One (AP). Would there be any clause prohibiting the use of CR9's operated by AP on behalf of LH in order to circumvent the scope clauses?

this rumor has never caught my attention. I am quite sure there is no clause which would prevent that from happening. however, i am even more certain that the pilots' union would exert massive pressure in order to prevent this.

you're sure that was Air One? if i had to venture a guess i would have said Air Dolomiti would take CR9s as it seems more fitting, despite them having thrown out their CR1s.



If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
User currently offlineDazeflight From Germany, joined Jun 1999, 580 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 2770 times:

Quoting TriStar500 (Reply 9):
Following your logic, the LX ARJ are also part of the combined LH fleet, so the size gets even larger.

Well, there's the small but important difference: the 37 planes all wear Lufthansa colors, the SWISS planes don't.

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 14):
... but then again Swiss is a subsidiary of LH so maybe we should be counting them altogether for a total of 41 a/c Wink

that would be more like 60 aircrafts then (see above).


User currently offlineBBJII From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 850 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 2754 times:

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 8):
When did the Avro's (and BAe's) enter the LH fleet? Is it possible that it was an Avro the plane that took me from FRA to LCY in July 1995?

1995 FRA-LCY-FRA was operated under wetlease by Business Air, (now BMI Regional).

The aircraft would have been G-GNTZ a BAe146-200, now with BA Connect.


 wave 



Remember: The Bird Hit You, You Didn't Hit The Bird.....
User currently offlineCRJ900 From Norway, joined Jun 2004, 2216 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 2701 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Johnnybgoode (Reply 12):
basically, the CR9 deal could be considered a short-term solution as in today's environment (LCCs all around), 50-seaters are not that economical anymore. by phasing out some 50-seat CR1s, this allows LH to lower to some extent its seat miles in the regional fleet.

Good thinking by LH, that's why they are profitable. BBD will have a backyard full of 50-seaters if they take them back every time a customer wants to upgrade to bigger aircraft... NOT profitable! *sigh*

Quoting Johnnybgoode (Reply 12):
but speaking of a short-term solution: the same was said about the CR7 and they are still around and will be around for much longer.

How long were they supposed to be in service, then? 2-3 years? I read in FI that LH is very pleased with them...



Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
User currently offlineJohnnybgoode From Germany, joined Jan 2001, 2187 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 2631 times:

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 18):
How long were they supposed to be in service, then? 2-3 years? I read in FI that LH is very pleased with them...

yes, i think there is no doubt about it.
i don't think there has ever been a statement as to how long they would remain in the fleet. but from the massive Do 728 order (60+60) it was quite obvious and commonly believed that Lufthansa CityLine would build its fleet of 50+ seaters on this type. consequently, all ARJs and CR7s would fall into oblivion in due time.



If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
User currently onlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7613 posts, RR: 42
Reply 20, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 2599 times:

Quoting BBJII (Reply 17):
1995 FRA-LCY-FRA was operated under wetlease by Business Air, (now BMI Regional).

The aircraft would have been G-GNTZ a BAe146-200, now with BA Connect

Thanks for the info. I am quite sure (although not a 100%) that the plane had the Lufthansa CityLine livery. Was G-GNTZ painted in LH colors?



Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
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