Zvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 65 Reply 1, posted (7 years 9 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 10334 times:
1 or 2 would be the most likely option among those listed. LH will not be ordering any more WhaleJets for a while. I also don't see LH ordering any B777-200ERs at this point. The B747-8 has a good chance. The B777F is also possible. A350 vs B787 will be interesting to watch.
I don't think that was suggested by the OP, but I don't see LH retiring their A340-600s anytime soon. The resale value is low and they work well -- albeit at a high operating cost. They could perhaps be replaced someday by the B787-10. If not, then they'll probably stay in LH's fleet until replaced by Y3 or Airbus' counter to Y3.
Manni From South Korea, joined Nov 2001, 4221 posts, RR: 23 Reply 6, posted (7 years 9 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 10097 times:
Quoting Zvezda (Reply 1): LH will not be ordering any more WhaleJets for a while.
Whatever they'll purchase, additional A380's is a given (wich may be the convertion of outstanding options). IRC Mayrubher (I might have his name wrong, but I'm reffering to the LH CEO), has already announced that, without giving a specific number. All other possibilities are speculation.
LTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 51 Reply 10, posted (7 years 9 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 10022 times:
LH might eventually convert some of their Combis for cargo service. Costs will be low, as it will just require the shortening of the upper deck floor and floor strengthening and now installation of a side cargo door, but LH does seem to want to have the ability for loading payload through the nose, so the 747-8F will be an option LH will seriously look into. The 777F might also be an option, but only for replacing older MD-11s. They still have some fairly young MD-11 airframes, which can continue on for quite some time.
As for the passenger fleet, even though LH will take up more options for the A380, I believe the 747-8I will be a must for them. They still have a considerably big 747 fleet, one of the biggest in the world, and the A380 can't and will never be a 1 to 1 replacement for them. Besides, the 747-8I will be perfect for routes that are too big for the A346 and too small for the A380.
As for the question of 787 vs A350, that's still wide open. I personally expect LH to order the 787 as the perfect replacement for the 767s currently flying for DE. The 787-3 will furthermore be an option as a replacement for LH's A300 fleet, which will eventually have to go. Though the current fleet requirements speak more for LH ordering the 787, it's still wide open. The biggest question will be the A343 replacement, and we shouldn't expect anything on this quickly, as LH still has some young airframes of that type, so it will be a close call between the 787-8/9 and A350.
So, in my opinion, the LH widebody fleet will look something like this in the future, including the A330s they've just taken delivery:
A340-642 and -642X (I presume the new frames LH is due to get will be the HGW model)
787-830 (this would be the aircraft for DE)
To be defined in the near future: 787-830/930 - A350-900
As far as the 737 replacement is concerned, it's all wide open. Let's see how Y1 progresses in the future, as the R&D for the 737 replacement has just begun. If Airbus can offer something that can effectively compete with Y1, then we'd have yet another open race for an order by LH.
Zvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 65 Reply 12, posted (7 years 9 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 9986 times:
Quoting LTU932 (Reply 10): If Airbus can offer something that can effectively compete with Y1, then we'd have yet another open race for an order by LH.
Boeing are working on the B737RS (formerly known as Y1) and Airbus are working on the NSR. At this point, it's a wide open race for the future single-aisle market at nearly all the airlines. I know only that both will be better than either the A320 or B737NG. Progress is good regardless of whether it is from Airbus or Boeing.
Columba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 6992 posts, RR: 4 Reply 13, posted (7 years 9 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 9891 times:
I am looking forward to the "real" Lufthansa fleet replecement thread very soon.
Every few weeks there is a discusion whether LH will go all Airbus or will order the 747-8 which gets kind of boring after a while since nothing new comes out of these threads anymore.
But if you ask me about LHï¿½s longhaul fleet plans I have to say that
I am hoping for an 747-8/787 order which I think is very likely.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
Karan69 From India, joined Oct 2004, 2850 posts, RR: 19 Reply 16, posted (7 years 9 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 9842 times:
If LH stick to an all Airbus fleet, i could well see them going in for the following
A380 + A359 + A330F + A32X
However if they go for a Boeing Fleet replacment
B748 + B789 + B777F + B783 + A32X
What most of us are forgetting that Airbus recently decided to launch the A330 Freighter version which would blend in excellently well for their pilots because of commonality with the rest of their Airbus Widebody fleet
Quoting LTU932 (Reply 10): Besides, the 747-8I will be perfect for routes that are too big for the A346 and too small for the A380.
That makes sense, but please can you or anyone else tell me such a route that exists in LH network.
Johnnybgoode From Germany, joined Jan 2001, 2187 posts, RR: 7 Reply 18, posted (7 years 9 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 9611 times:
Quoting Zvezda (Reply 1): LH will not be ordering any more WhaleJets for a while.
as denied by other posts, the LH CEO has in fact stated that they are looking to snatch up more A380s.
Quoting LTU932 (Reply 10): LH might eventually convert some of their Combis for cargo service. Costs will be low, as it will just require the shortening of the upper deck floor
a converted 744F would not have a shortened upper deck.
he's an article which lends further credibility that LH will place a new order for long range aircraft, but also for its short range fleet. Sorry that it's just in German language:
'Ihre Strecken- und Preisoffensive wolle die Lufthansa jetzt auf Stuttgart und Berlin ausdehnen, deutete Klingenberg an. Zugleich gab er bekannt, daß die Kranich-Linie in diesem Jahr eine umfangreiche Flugzeugbestellung sowohl für kontinentale Strecken als auch interkontinentale Flüge plant.'
So what short range aircraft are they looking for? the word has been that LH wants to consolidate on one type for the short haul fleet. Apparently, this order will be way before Airbus and Boeing come up with something new, and perhaps this order will include some +/- 100-seat regional jet.
If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
Columba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 6992 posts, RR: 4 Reply 19, posted (7 years 9 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 9483 times:
Quoting Johnnybgoode (Reply 18): So what short range aircraft are they looking for? the word has been that LH wants to consolidate on one type for the short haul fleet. Apparently, this order will be way before Airbus and Boeing come up with something new, and perhaps this order will include some +/- 100-seat regional jet.
LH wants to replace their 737s and A320s with an all new aircraft by Airbus or Boeing. Until that they will not order any new aircraft in that segment. In fact LH fleet planer Nico Buchholz has said in an interview last year that they plan to keep their 737s beyond 2010.
So I guess a order for the short haul will be an replacement for the Avros. LH is planning an order for years and was always said to be a likely customer for the 717.
About the long haul fleet there are several threads about it: RE: Bloomberg: Lufthansa Interested In 748I, 748F (by Columba Mar 13 2006 in Civil Aviation)#ID2655655
Columba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 6992 posts, RR: 4 Reply 21, posted (7 years 9 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 9296 times:
Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 20): Moi? I have not heard or read anything... other than what you and a few others have written on this forum...
Lufthansa in talks with Boeing for 747-8
By SUSANNA RAY AND JAMES GUNSALUS
Deutsche Lufthansa AG, Europe's second-largest airline, said Thursday that it is interested in passenger and freight versions of The Boeing Co.'s planned 747-8 airliner.
Lufthansa is giving Boeing proposals on how the Cologne, Germany-based airline would want both the 747-8, a proposed longer version of its largest airliner, and the new 787 model configured in the event it buys the planes, Boeing Germany President Horst Teltschik said in an interview in Berlin.
Boeing approved production of the 450-seat 747-8 in November in a challenge to Airbus' 550-seat A380 as the Chicago-based company tries to hold on to the jumbo-jet market it created almost four decades ago. The A380 will overtake the current 420-seat 747 model as the world's biggest commercial aircraft when it enters service later this year.
Lufthansa will have the world's second-biggest fleet of A380s once all 15 are delivered, starting in 2008.
Wolfgang Mayrhuber, Lufthansa's chief executive officer, was at Boeing's main plant in Everett last week to look at the 747-8 and the 787, Teltschik said.
You must be joking! No airline would order such a diverse fleet.
Quoting LTU932 (Reply 10): it will just require the shortening of the upper deck floor and
The upper deck remains in place.
Lufthansa will obviously order more A380s eventually. I just dont see sense in ordering the 777 or 787 either as such a move will only complicate the fleet. I think the A350 is the obvious choice to replace the A343s, and eventually the A330s. And replace the 744s with more A380s and also 748s. The A340E is also a possibility if it materialises.
Regards Cargo, the 748 is a very good possibility as is conversions of their existing 744s And maybe even the A300s.
Quoting Columba (Reply 21): would want both the 747-8, a proposed longer version of its largest airliner, and the new 787
Just the title is about the 747-8, the article itself is about both planes.
There are other articles as well from last year where Mayrhuber stated his interest in the 787, I choose this one because it is the newest: