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Airtran Applies For DCA Slots  
User currently offlineJlp123 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 54 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 5504 times:

Airtran has applied for NK's abandoned DCA slots to begin either IND-DCA or MDW-DCA. I think that it's a good idea, but will only one roundtrip work?

http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf95/390316_web.pdf

35 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineQuickmover From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2494 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 5479 times:

NK?
Do you mean ATA?


User currently offlineGr8SlvrFlt From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 1603 posts, RR: 10
Reply 2, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 5454 times:

How many minutes before Delta puts in an application for the same slots?  box 

User currently offlineAirTran737 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3704 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 5454 times:
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Quoting Quickmover (Reply 1):
Do you mean ATA?

Read the filing, FL has applied for a roundtrip that NK vacated. The NK slots were for a MYR roundtrip.



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User currently offlineQuickmover From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2494 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 5430 times:

OK.
So they are wanting to move the city from MYR to either IND or MDW?
Makes sense.


User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6606 posts, RR: 24
Reply 5, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 5402 times:

Quoting Gr8SlvrFlt (Reply 2):
How many minutes before Delta puts in an application for the same slots?

DL applied back in November for these slots when NK first announced they were cancelling the DCA-MYR flight. DL wants to fly DCA-SAV.

The DOT has been unusually slow about acting on these slots. One thing working against Airtran on these slots is that they are supposed to be used to provide service to a small non-hub airport. MDW and IND really don't fit that definition.


User currently offlineDeltaGator From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 6341 posts, RR: 13
Reply 6, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 5329 times:

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 5):
One thing working against Airtran on these slots is that they are supposed to be used to provide service to a small non-hub airport.



Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 5):
DL wants to fly DCA-SAV.

DCA-SAV might do pretty good with the military presence down there with Hunter AAF, and Ft. Stewart.



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User currently offlineUsairways85 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 3402 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 5295 times:

DCA-MDW/IND would probably do very well, but with only one frequency it really limits the options for business travelers

User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4552 posts, RR: 18
Reply 8, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 5266 times:

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 5):
One thing working against Airtran on these slots is that they are supposed to be used to provide service to a small non-hub airport. MDW and IND really don't fit that definition.

Well it depends on what you call small. IND isn't even a top 25 airport. And it is definately a non-hub airport. Unless you count FX

Is it normal to write up an application like that. It looks as if the application is for IND-DCA with all the info about IND but it contains the "or" clause. Is this perhaps to trick the DOT into approving the application that would allow them to serve DCA from MDW even though the DOT intended it to be from a smaller market? Or is this a way of providing a backup that if the DOT won't approve IND that maybe they'd approve MDW and it would prevent FL from having to file a 2nd app?

Edit:
Is it possible that this may be a multi-city route like MDW-IND-DCA? That might be the idea way to open up all 3 markets to each other.

[Edited 2006-03-20 20:03:25]


Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 5187 times:

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 5):
DL wants to fly DCA-SAV.

It actually wouldn't be DL flying it, as the application is for OH to operate the service.


User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4918 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 5101 times:

Quoting Indy (Reply 8):
Edit:
Is it possible that this may be a multi-city route like MDW-IND-DCA? That might be the idea way to open up all 3 markets to each other.

I dont think this would be very competitive from MDW against ATA. Non-stop multiple daily flights or a one stop once daily flight?



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User currently offlinePositiverate From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1590 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 5037 times:

This is going to be an interesting competition. AirTran filed an application to serve IND or MDW as a medium hub airport in lieu of a small hub, which is not allowed, and they also filed a motion to shift the FLL and RSW slots to ATL which also are not allowed by the statue.

US has a very competitive application to SRQ to compete with DL (Comair) to SAV. However, as I understand it USAir Express may not qualify because of the Chattanooga within-perimeter slots which appear to violate the transfer prohibitions, vis-à-vis the acquisition by HP.


User currently offlineFA4B6 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 4978 times:

Didnt B6 submit a request for DCA slots as well?

User currently offlineMexicana757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 3041 posts, RR: 28
Reply 13, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 4874 times:

It appears that FL is more about serving IND-DCA instead of MDW-DCA. They talk more about how they are serving IND and central Indiana.

I think that once daily would work out of IND, but once daily MDW-DCA would be a tough to work, who knows. On DCA-IND both NW and US are on. And on DCA-MDW, ATA is the only airline. Competition looks about the same on both routes.


User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6606 posts, RR: 24
Reply 14, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 4829 times:

Quoting Positiverate (Reply 11):
AirTran filed an application to serve IND or MDW as a medium hub airport in lieu of a small hub, which is not allowed, and they also filed a motion to shift the FLL and RSW slots to ATL which also are not allowed by the statue.

Actually, the DOT has already allowed the statue to be broken by allowing Spirit the ability to seasonally shift between DCA-FLL and DCA-DTW. This is what drove Airtran to make the request to seasonally shift DCA-RSW to DCA-ATL. I think Airtran will have a decent chance of getting this approved.

However, I don't think Airtran will get the IND-DCA slots. These slots were designated specifically for a small market and IND doesn't qualify.

I think either US's DCA-SRQ or DL's DCA-SAV will have the best chance. US has an advantage over DL in that it proposes using larger equipment (E170/190/A319 vs CRJ200). However, US is also at a slight disadvantage as they are the largest holder of slots at DCA.


User currently offlineDeltaMIA From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1672 posts, RR: 17
Reply 15, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 4699 times:

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 14):
I think either US's DCA-SRQ or DL's DCA-SAV will have the best chance. US has an advantage over DL in that it proposes using larger equipment (E170/190/A319 vs CRJ200).

DL also has made good faith efforts in moving slots to underserved communities. For instance beginning DCA-MLB without filing for vacant or new slots.



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User currently offlineGoodmanr From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 297 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 4668 times:

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 5):
DL wants to fly DCA-SAV.

That would be an interesting flight. United from IAD is so horrible on express, half because of the G terminal. There is a good amount of vacation traffic for DC to Hilton Head. US in the summer does a saturday nonstop DCA-HHH which I take often and it's almost always full.



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User currently offlineHPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4057 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 4647 times:

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 6):
DCA-SAV might do pretty good with the military presence down there with Hunter AAF, and Ft. Stewart.

As well as the proximity of Parris Island and Beaufort MCAS, both of which are closer to Savannah than Charleston. I'm sure there would be quite a bit of military and other government traffic on that route.


User currently offlineCMHSRQ From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 991 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 4480 times:

Where can the SRQ or SAV applications be viewed. I can't find them on the DOT site. I'm not really sure what to search for.

found it OST-2000-7182-1082

[Edited 2006-03-21 09:41:41]


The voice of moderation
User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4552 posts, RR: 18
Reply 19, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 4232 times:

Comair has file an objection...

http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/p84/391587.pdf



Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offlineAirwave From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 1117 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 4191 times:

Quoting Indy (Reply 19):
Comair has file an objection...

http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/p84/3...7.pdf

Hmm, good read. They *do* have a valid point. The only thing that concerns me is that the DOT members are sure to have heard of DL's recent wishful thinking about selling off OH, so perhaps they won't rule in favor of OH, if for no other reason that to avoid having to repeat this process six months from now.

Airwave  eyebrow 



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User currently offlineCMHSRQ From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 991 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 4184 times:

Well I think it will be Comair vs UsAirways. Both offer very competitive applications. I think SAV and Comair will win out, but my fingures are crossed for SRQ.


The voice of moderation
User currently offlineCMHSRQ From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 991 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 4128 times:

I can pick apart Comair's plan a bit.
Is SAV underserved? 2 million pax a year on 7 carriers with non-stop daily service to 12 destinations and Sat service to 3 additional locations? (peak season)MSA pop 310,000 which includes Hinesville and Ft. Stewart, They don't seem underserved?

Is SRQ underserved? 1.3 million pax last year on 6 carriers with non-stop service to 14 destinations. (peak season) Plus Canadian charters .MSA pop 651,000. Which includes Sarasota, Bradenton, Venice. Doesn't include Punta Gorda and N. Charlotte county +200,000 Arcadia and Desoto County + 75,000 or Northport which is in Sarasota County and growing so fast no one knows the population.

The distance between SRQ and TPA is 39 nautical miles as the crow flies. However if you want to drive it's twice as far, because Tampa Bay lies between. The only way I would consider RSW is if I lived south of the Peace River, then it's about an hour to either SRQ or RSW so it would be a toss up.

SAV has direct VA flights on United Express 3 times a day to IAD and USAirways has Sat service to DCA. SRQ has never had direct DCA service and currently AirTran operates 1 daily to BWI. The DCA area is SRQ's 4 largest pax destination, only 1 direct flight.


Anyway, does anyone know when the decision will be made?



The voice of moderation
User currently offlineUSPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3295 posts, RR: 7
Reply 23, posted (8 years 5 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4020 times:

Quoting CMHSRQ (Reply 22):
SRQ has never had direct DCA service

USAir and Eastern had DCA-SRQ servive (EA from about 1990-1991, US in 1992). Needless to say, they didn't last long. I believe it was flown with a 727 for EA and a 737 for US. Not sure on US' equip.



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User currently offlineDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (8 years 5 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 4008 times:

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 5):
One thing working against Airtran on these slots is that they are supposed to be used to provide service to a small non-hub airport. MDW and IND really don't fit that definition.

I beg to differ. IND is anything but a hub, and is considered a small market.



One Nation Under God
25 FlyPNS1 : The DOT definitions are quite different. They classify airports into four categories (based on the number of passengers as a % of the national number
26 Lindy : What the hell is wrong with them? DCA has around 20 daily roundtrips to Chicago already. United, American, American Eagle, ATA, US Airways Express -
27 Indy : FL could also argue that the DOT eval of IND was based on a time that US had a large operation here. I believe this is based on a 1997 report. So I wo
28 Mexicana757 : Theres nothing wrong with giving ATA a little competition. On MDW-DCA, ATA is the only airline on the route. So what if there are around 20 flights t
29 Goodmanr : There is a lot of vacation traffic.
30 Lindy : Its not a matter of a competition. DCA-MDW flights are O&D. There are very limited numbers of connections from MDW outward. The only airline that can
31 Goodmanr : Only b/c of UA/AA hubs at ORD. I much prefer to fly to MDW whether it's business or pleasure and I know most of my collegues do as well.
32 Post contains links CMHSRQ : man this is great stuff, FL, US, UA and OH as well UAL says no to Airtran for good reason http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/p84/391596.pdf AirTran says f
33 Indy : Is there any word on when the DOT will make its decision on the applications?
34 B757capt : I was just wondering the same thing?
35 FCYTravis : It's basically the same thing that happens over and over again with AirTran and DOT filings. They whine about not getting slots and demand that, by ar
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