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New Pro-Wright Amdt Group--Oh Brother!  
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4804 times:

There's a new pro-Wright group out there called Stop and Think, and they have a website that's supposed to be up as of 2pm today.

From an ad in today (3/21) Dallas Morning News:


It's time to stop. And think.

About Families.

Moms.

Dads.

The kids they love.

Jobs that support them.

Schools that teach them.

Families worry.

Homeowners worry.

Buisness owners worry.

If the Wright Amendment changes, what changes next?


Stop and think.
in cooperation with AmericanAirlines.



Good Lord...  Yeah sure

What's next; ads like this?



201 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineA340Spotter From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1981 posts, RR: 23
Reply 1, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4800 times:

Oh no, AA hasn't resorted to the kitten vote, have they? Me-ouch.

I think it's time that WN puts up the billboard like MCI (I think) did years ago, counting up the amount of savings if people switched from AT&T, except rebrand it as the amount that AA loses everytime it has a flight takeoff from DAL!



"Irregardless, it's a Cat III airplane, we don't need an alternate!"
User currently offlineSeanp11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 290 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4791 times:

Quoting OPNLguy (Thread starter):
It's time to stop. And think.

About Families.

Moms.

Dads.

The kids they love.

Jobs that support them.

Schools that teach them.

Families worry.

Homeowners worry.

Buisness owners worry.

If the Wright Amendment changes, what changes next?


Geez... How does allowing flights carrying more than 50 pax fly anywhere in the country out of Love effect familes? Why can't AA just suck it up?


User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4775 times:

Quoting A340Spotter (Reply 1):
I think it's time that WN puts up the billboard like MCI (I think) did years ago, counting up the amount of savings if people switched from AT&T, except rebrand it as the amount that AA loses everytime it has a flight takeoff from DAL!

Methinks that is exactly the crux of the matter, and why AA is so desparate to pull a FUD stunt like this...


User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13144 posts, RR: 100
Reply 4, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4735 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Oh man.

Before this threat becomes 100+ posts of arguments, who is behind this group? It sounds more like "astroturf" than grassroots (hence the "in cooperation with American airlines bit"). If you're not familiar, "astroturf" is the nickname given to false "grassroots" movements (corporate sponsored).

At this point, I admit to becoming pessimistic about Wright being repealed. Thus, I'm wondering where the WN headquarters will move to in two or so years.  duck 

Quoting OPNLguy (Thread starter):
Buisness owners worry.

Business owners worry about flight access and I would think that most Dallas businesses would prefer a Wright repeal. The exception would of course be AA vendors or those who cater to AA employees.  Wink

If WN isn't working on getting a few more states exempted and a repeal of the through ticketing provisions... I would think they're silly. The local political game is nothing but a delay tactic by AA & co.

And I have no problem with AA playing the political game. Not doing so would be stupid on their part. But I would prefer to have Wright replealed and see how the free market plays out.  spin 

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineCasInterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4629 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4696 times:

Stop and Think

I look at stuff like this, and it makes me want to write my senator to tell him that we should repeal this FEDERAL law to let the NIMBY's work it out in the Dallas Metroplex on a CITY/COUNTY/STATE level.

If as a city/county/state they want to shut down Love, let them, but this federal law needs to go bye bye.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineGoingboeing From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4875 posts, RR: 16
Reply 6, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4681 times:

Quoting A340Spotter (Reply 1):
I think it's time that WN puts up the billboard like MCI (I think) did years ago, counting up the amount of savings if people switched from AT&T, except rebrand it as the amount that AA loses everytime it has a flight takeoff from DAL!

Actually, I think Southwest would be better served to start rerunning some of their very old "Remember" ads - something like, "Remember when a refundable round trip ticket between Dallas and Kansas City cost $860...then show an AA jet taxiing past at DAL while the voice over says "Remember?". Then have the fully refundable fare of $240 roll up on the screen.


User currently offlineTxAgKuwait From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 1803 posts, RR: 42
Reply 7, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4677 times:

Well, I know that the thought of all those dead kittens has changed my mind.

I say keep Wright and make Southwest move their flights to DFW and their Headquarters to Phoenix.

Just tell those Arizonans..."Laura Miller sent me."


User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12110 posts, RR: 49
Reply 8, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4677 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Goingboeing (Reply 6):
Actually, I think Southwest would be better served to start rerunning some of their very old "Remember" ads - something like, "Remember when a refundable round trip ticket between Dallas and Kansas City cost $860...then show an AA jet taxiing past at DAL while the voice over says "Remember?". Then have the fully refundable fare of $240 roll up on the screen.

I like that idea.



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineAtrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5692 posts, RR: 52
Reply 9, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4656 times:

"Remember what it was like to book a ticket to Dallas, and empty your wallet, remember?"

"Remember what it was like to drive 40 minutes from DFW to Downtown Dallas, remember?"

just to add a few Wink

Alex



Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
User currently offlineMexicana757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 3043 posts, RR: 28
Reply 10, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4648 times:

Where is PETA at?? Can't wait to see their reaction, lol.

Well it shows these Pro Wright people don't even know how to do a campaign. They went on and used an image that was found on another website and that is widely used through out the internet. Southwest and the Anti-Wright supporters could have come up with the same thing. Even a five year old could have gone ont he web and found that picture and used it to sell lemonade.


User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 4633 times:

Quoting Mexicana757 (Reply 10):
Well it shows these Pro Wright people don't even know how to do a campaign. They went on and used an image that was found on another website and that is widely used through out the internet.

I want to make it ABSOLUTELY clear that this new pro-Wright group DID NOT use the image at the start of this thread...

Given the text and tone of their print ad, I asked the question: "What's next; ads like this?", and then adding the image that was floating around the internet from last year.

Please read carefully, and do not assume... ;


User currently offlineMikey711MN From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1398 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 4632 times:

Well, the domain was registered by someone at Scott Howell & Company, who is obviously not acting on their own. The bulk of their work seems to be conservative political advocacy--whether or not they are hired directly by AA is unknown, but seems likely--so they are quite used to setting up things like this.

-Mike

Edit: Sure enough, in the text of Vinnie Minchillo's (the official contact listed in the registry) profile does it read that he worked at Temerlin McClain as Creative Director "on American Airlines". AA must like his work.

[Edited 2006-03-21 20:24:28]


I plan on living forever. So far, so good...
User currently offlineTxAgKuwait From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 1803 posts, RR: 42
Reply 13, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 4626 times:

If we're going to go back to the "Remember...." campaign, then we'll need to find us a 737-200 with one engine that smokes.

It would also be nice to put the shapely female flight attendant in the hot pants outfit as she slinks across the runway, asking (in a very sultry voice)-------Remember what it was like before Southwest Airlines???


User currently offlineGoingboeing From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4875 posts, RR: 16
Reply 14, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 4596 times:

Quoting TxAgKuwait (Reply 13):

It would also be nice to put the shapely female flight attendant in the hot pants outfit as she slinks across the runway, asking (in a very sultry voice)-------Remember what it was like before Southwest Airlines???

Lordy I miss those days! I wish they'd bring that back....scratch that...I don't think the male FA's would look that good in them.


User currently offlineMexicana757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 3043 posts, RR: 28
Reply 15, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 4589 times:

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 11):

Oops my bad  embarrassed 


User currently offlineLegion242 From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 233 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 4564 times:

Website up and running. And I volunteered already!!!!


Don't make me release the monkeys!!
User currently offlineVegasplanes From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 778 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 4520 times:

Quoting OPNLguy (Thread starter):
If the Wright Amendment changes, what changes next?


Stop and think.
in cooperation with AmericanAirlines.

Somebody in AA mgmt. needs to have their head examined for this one, this is so ridiculous of an ad, one would think they might just want to throw cash at it instead of actually mentioning that AA sponsers it.

Quoting A340Spotter (Reply 1):

I think it's time that WN puts up the billboard like MCI (I think) did years ago, counting up the amount of savings if people switched from AT&T, except rebrand it as the amount that AA loses everytime it has a flight takeoff from DAL!

I like it, put it all around the entrances and exits of DFW airport.

Quoting TxAgKuwait (Reply 13):
If we're going to go back to the "Remember...." campaign, then we'll need to find us a 737-200 with one engine that smokes.

It would also be nice to put the shapely female flight attendant in the hot pants outfit as she slinks across the runway, asking (in a very sultry voice)-------Remember what it was like before Southwest Airlines???

Excellent Big grin

Got a feeling the PC types out there might go Nuts! with that one. Oh My God, a women in hot pants and go-go boots talkin sexy like. Pollution streaming for a horrible horrible machine, Ohhh The Humanity.  Wink


User currently offlineN908AW From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 934 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 4471 times:

Quoting CasInterest (Reply 5):

I look at stuff like this, and it makes me want to write my senator to tell him that we should repeal this FEDERAL law to let the NIMBY's work it out in the Dallas Metroplex on a CITY/COUNTY/STATE level.

If as a city/county/state they want to shut down Love, let them, but this federal law needs to go bye bye.

Such a pity interstate commerce is constitutionally controlled by the feds, eh?



'Cause you're on ATA again, and on ATA, you're on vacation!
User currently offlineORD From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 1382 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 4461 times:

People should click on "share your concerns" on the home page and tell them the Wright Amendment should be abolished. Tell them your concerns of high airfares if Wright stays in place.

User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 4461 times:

Quoting N908AW (Reply 18):
Such a pity interstate commerce is constitutionally controlled by the feds, eh?

Not for much longer, it would appear...  Wink


User currently offlineDALNeighbor From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 598 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 4417 times:

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 4):
Before this threat becomes 100+ posts of arguments, who is behind this group? It sounds more like "astroturf" than grassroots (hence the "in cooperation with American airlines bit"). If you're not familiar, "astroturf" is the nickname given to false "grassroots" movements (corporate sponsored).

American gave this group $500,000 and Employee time and resources to open the Dallas office. They are working on opening a Ft. Worth office.

Quoting Legion242 (Reply 16):
Website up and running. And I volunteered already!!!!

As a concerned neighbor, I think I should sign up to volunteer as well. I can't wait until they put me in charge of my neighborhood and I start going door to door to talk about the "effects" of the Wright Amendment.



Wright Amendment = Federally Engineered AA Price Gouging
User currently offlineAAtakeMeAway From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 319 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 4411 times:

Oh good lord... Have you all read those "stories" on the website? I say we bombard it with pro-wright-repeal comments of our own.

Signed,
AAtakeMeAway - a Not-so-concerned Bryan Place resident

[Edited 2006-03-22 00:18:29]

User currently offlineExFATboy From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2974 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 4393 times:

Quoting N908AW (Reply 18):
Such a pity interstate commerce is constitutionally controlled by the feds, eh?

Yes, but airports are owned and managed by local or state governments, or regional bodies. Just as many train and bus terminals are.

It's called "federalism." And (perimeter rules aside) everywhere in the US except Dallas, it seems to work just fine.

I do at least give the "Stop and Think" folks credit for being open and honest about AA's sponsorship, just as the "Set Love Free" website is openly run by Southwest.


User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 4370 times:

Quoting AAtakeMeAway (Reply 22):
Oh good lord... Have you all read those "stories" on the website? I say we bombard it with pro-wright-repeal comments of our own.

They sure seem to all be hitting the same "bullet points" (the supposed low/slow flights, as one example), but adding pro-repeal comments would be just a waste of time. If it were a true survey site, sure, add away, but it's a pro-Wright site, not a survey site.

Looks like another half mil AA will be pissing away...  Yeah sure


25 ChiGB1973 : That's good! They're gonna wake up one morning and the runway will be dug up, just like Meigs. M
26 Cjpark : OP, I would have expected no less from you and the rest of the drove with your comments on this organization. From your comments one would could gathe
27 Seanp11 : Since when has the pro repeal side been using strawman arguments as to why wright should be repealed?
28 Post contains links Boeing7E7 : Wow... One site, unlike these sites: http://www.fightwright.org/ http://www.setlovefree.com/ http://www.righttofly.org/ Free speech. Move on peoples.
29 Seanp11 : At least they present a valid argument, not a strawman (omg the families are in trouble if wright is repealed).
30 Post contains links and images OPNLguy : That's precisely my point, which the other two gents can't seem to see. It's not the fact that there's a new pro-Wright site out there--bring them on
31 Cjpark : " target=_blank>http://blogs.dfw.com/schnurmanator/ Well if schurman said it then it must be true. I wonder how much WN is paying him for his opinion?
32 Stirling : Rafael Rodriguez also shared his concerns stating, “I have lived in Dallas for over 54 years. As a kid, I can remember having to stop running during
33 Post contains links and images Incitatus : Let's see... why worry? This photo helps. View Large View MediumPhoto © Gary Chambers Southwest makes poor airport choices. However, none of the
34 Incitatus : Check the lower right side. Are you implying an alien will insert his penis in my throat? That will likely get you a suspension from posting in a.net
35 Post contains links and images OPNLguy : Did you get a peek at stop-and-think's top-secret "Master Plan" or something? I think he probably meant "ovipositors", and since "ovi" indicates "egg
36 OPNLguy : You're both right, but the devil's in the details versus a general statement. Runways 13L and 13R; yes. Runways 31L and 31R; no. I suspect you'll see
37 Tismfu : I've never seen that... is there a link? Thanks.
38 OPNLguy : It's not a sketch--he's referring to the doctored photo at the top of the thread...
39 Post contains images SonOfACaptain : Can you kindly explain to me why you would generalize all the pro-Wrighters because of this one website? Sorry about that, but something just doesn't
40 Post contains images OPNLguy : You got that part right... ...but where have I said I "hated" AA? Have I ever used the words "hate" and "AA" in the same sentence? I haven't, because
41 Stirling : I'd like to see a list of Southwest poor airport choices. How is such a determination made? And Who makes it? Because if its passengers....I really c
42 Incitatus : Start with Midway, where Southwest crammed as many flights as possible and more accidents could happen. Why resort to ridicule - no arguments? Cities
43 Txagkuwait : >>Reality is there are 90,000 residents in the noise footprint of Love Field.
44 DALNeighbor : Bull honkey-tonk. Southwest is an excellent neighbor. I've been speaking with my Dallas city councilman and there is overwhelming support for a repea
45 Tismfu : Wow... I'm slow. Thanks. Don't know what I was thinking...
46 OPNLguy : No you're not; Incitatus just described it as one thing when it was another, hence your confusion... No big deal...
47 Cjpark : OK I will bite. Who is your council member then? Hunt, Medrano or Rasansky?
48 Incitatus : Mind you the owners of those MD80s and corporate aircraft are not pushing for the repeal of restrictions at the airport. And the only reason Love Fie
49 Post contains links OPNLguy : Great article in the New York Times today (3/22).... http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/22/bu...?_r=1&pagewanted=print&oref=slogin Shouldn't require regis
50 DALNeighbor : Rasansky. My comment regarding the support for Wright repeal in Dallas districts other than mine is from a person who has spoken directly with the ot
51 Incitatus : This just comes to show that Southwest does not care about the vicinity of its HQ and will make a decision to locate aircraft entirely on their relat
52 OPNLguy : Just like AA is by deploying noisier MD-80s to Love instead of quieter 737-800s? As Southwest continually increased the size of its 737-300 and 737-5
53 Post contains images MDorBust : Dang it!! How did you crack through WN's OP security and find out about their special plan to pull a pair 732's out of retirement, fit them with budd
54 Gift4tbone : I posted a "story" as they call it. Let's see if the publish it on their site. I can only hope the people of Dallas see the fact that in bold letters
55 Cjpark : WN made a bad choice staying at an airport that it knew by law it could not fly outside of the limits set by the WA. Losing Southwest would not affec
56 Post contains images Seanp11 : The nice thing about the truth is you usually don't have to pay for it. Yeah, the concerns of people getting paid by AA.
57 N1120A : They are a right wing propaganda churning firm and are very effective at what they do. The Constitution specifically gives the power over interstate
58 MDorBust : When that concern is "think about the children" I have to wonder when Sally Struthers is going to be contracted by AA. Perhaps she can start up a ser
59 Post contains images OPNLguy : True, how true... Of course, he could always email the author of the NYT article directly (at the email address at the end of the article) and ask hi
60 Goingboeing : CJ...take a minute or two out of your consulting day and read about the impact of noise on a little town called Grapevine, Texas. Hint...the noise is
61 Stirling : I still don't get it. How is operating from Love Field a bad choice? When they started service, DAL-IAH-SAT-DAL, Love Field was just fine. Should the
62 Cjpark : Those people you say are pathetic and groveling are expressing concern over what will happen to the area they live in if the WA is repealed and compe
63 Post contains images MDorBust : Repealling the W.A. will cause planes to fall out of the sky into their neighborhoods? Yeah, sure... okay then. Let's try some more concerns... Steph
64 Incitatus : No they are not. Love Field is not an adequate facility to have the kind of operation that Southwest wants to have there. Time to move. Everybody lik
65 Goingboeing : Seems from your photo you posted that an overrun would end up in Bachman Lake...except for 18/36, which, in your photo, appears to be virtually unuse
66 Cjpark : Then again you could always tell us. Notice how the author demonized AA over the WA when it had nothing to do with it being written into law to begin
67 MDorBust : Fine then, why don't you explain for us. Does the Wright Ammendment keep planes from crashing into "homes and schools"? Does the Wright Ammendment ha
68 TxAgKuwait : >>You know, that reminds me of the first posting in this thread. Every time somebody dares to question Southwest's stance on Love Field, some Southwes
69 Cjpark : Well I will tell you all about it if you can tell us how the Wright Amendment has anything to do with WN not being able to offer us low fares from th
70 Post contains images MDorBust : Answer the question put to you. Do any of the previously mentioned points have anything to do with the Wright Ammendment?
71 MarkATL : I keep reading this stuff about the wright amendment and it seems to be quite an emotional issue for those in the Metroplex. I live in Atlanta and rar
72 Post contains images Seanp11 : 'Cause that would be too logical?
73 Steeler83 : Heck no!!! The wright amendment was some lame cockamame half-assed way of shielding AA from the low cost competition. It is hindering the city of Dal
74 OPNLguy : The Master PLan for Love already limits the max number of flights to 250 a day... There are those out there that think that Wright repeal means autom
75 Sccutler : There are those who continue to posit (within these forums) the theory that, had Southwest Airlines moved to DFW, Love Field would be closed, gone, re
76 Post contains links OPNLguy : It's true, some believe this, but that's their (rightful) opinion, but I agreee with you that that doesn't make it a hard fact as some others seem to
77 Post contains images OPNLguy : Saw this letter to the editor today, and from an AA pilot no less... Can you imagine the absolute FLAK he must be getting? Letters to the Editor (Wash
78 MarkATL : If that's the case, then what's the problem. From an outsider's point of view, I'm confussed. If it's not about protectionism, then what is it about?
79 DALNeighbor : The problem is that American doesn't want to lower their fares and likes having a monopoly on 50 non-stop routes from DFW.
80 ScottB : " target=_blank>http://www.fightwright.org/ Quoting the site: Obviously a commercial site from the ".com" top-level domain. If you can't tell this is
81 OPNLguy : Another way AA's position/actions have failed the commonse-sense "sniff" test (IMHO) is that they actually started Love service. As a result, all the
82 HPLASOps : I agree with you that some of AA's actions don't make any sense and I don't agree with a lot of techniques they've used to promote their viewpoint, b
83 OPNLguy : It isn't being changed for the benefit of one airline--it's being changed for all airlines that choose to serve Love. Already had been considered, an
84 SonOfACaptain : So just because WN doesn't want to do it, it makes it wrong? -SOAC
85 OPNLguy : No, Since WN runs WN (and not DFW, AA, or any of the armchair CEOs here), WN gets to make the determination what's best for WN and its shareholders.
86 Ejmmsu : Yes, yes it does. Why should any airline move their operations if all that would be required was the change of an arbitrary law to prevent it?
87 HPLASOps : Which is 97% WN. The other airlines at DAL? AA wouldn't be there if WN wasn't crying about the W/A, and the W/A doesn't affect CO since it only flies
88 SonOfACaptain : Does WN run Congress? -SOAC
89 HPLASOps : Because this "arbitrary" law actually has merit and value to it. The law has a purpose and WN has no business trying to change the law simply because
90 Post contains images OPNLguy : Ah, yes, the fabled "97%" figure. SWA has now has 120 daily flights, CoEx 13, and AA/Eagle 16. If my rough math is correct, Southwest's percentage ha
91 MDorBust : The law HAD a purpose. To protect a fledgling DFW airport and the investment made in it. That purpose has long since vanished. Nothing DAL can do, sh
92 HPLASOps : Do you enjoy seeing DFW so underutilized? The point of DFW was so that it would be THE airport for the region, not a compliment to DAL. The idea was
93 SonOfACaptain : And that is why I am not angry at them for doing this, because they are doing what is best for their company. I just don't agree with it. Many people
94 OPNLguy : Neither here nor there, and besides, utilization is in the eye of the beholder. If you've ever been at DFW during an AA bank (de-peaked hub or not),
95 Post contains images OPNLguy : ...and it's your right not to agree with it. Now, that said, when you start on the SWA ramp and eventually work your way up to the CEO spot, you'll t
96 Post contains images SLCUT2777 : My solution for this Texas squabble is for WN to purchase Love Field from the City of Dallas since it is a money loser for them anyway, and then they
97 HPLASOps : Looks like we got a new guy to this debate. DAL has only been loosing money for the last 2 years - prior to that it was a cash cow. Their landing fee
98 MarkATL : Same thing was said about JFK, ORD, IAD, CDG, TXL and NRT. Last time I checked the market (yes, the market not the government) have kept LGA, MDW, DC
99 Tornado82 : Well considering those are all airports in cities where the secondary airports are NEEDED for capacity, whereas DFW still has spare capacity, your ar
100 HPLASOps : The difference being those major airports are near or at capacity and the need for multiple airports is DEFINITLY necessary. Yes, true, but it does h
101 MarkATL : Your missing the point. All these airports were built to replace the others just as DFW was. The consumers/market kept the other ones open, just like
102 Tornado82 : No, you're missing the point. You CANNOT fit all of the air traffic of Chicagoland into O'Hare. You CANNOT fit all of the air traffic of New York Cit
103 MarkATL : Neither were the others I mentioned. They were all built to replace the original airports, not complement. The difference is the federal government d
104 HPLASOps : If the government funded the Supermarket then I think they have the right to say that. And if there really is a case where an airport is too big for
105 MarkATL : The same was true when those were built as well. They were built large to handle all the traffic of their "predissors" and more for the future. If th
106 MarkATL : I have, you can't miss it. It's in Arlington, Texas.
107 SCCutler : For shame, I see personal attacks occurring! Just because all of the commercial air traffic in north Texas could fit into DFW is scarcely any reason w
108 HPLASOps : Actually DFW was fairly full until DL pulled up and inspired WN to change its "compassionate neutrality" stance. And if DFW does become overcapacity,
109 MarkATL : I see me HPLASOps and Tornado82 having a discussion. I for one have no intention of making a personal attack on either of them over a difference of o
110 MarkATL : It was actually designed to have American, Delta and Branniff all operating hubs there. The market changed. Things happen. Should the feds have order
111 HPLASOps : Things do happen, like WN outgrowing their home airport, and DFW having space for them to fill. And the government doesn't subsidize the NFL (unless
112 MarkATL : Outgrown by butt. If the city hadn't decided to use the Branniff and Delta gates for non airport activities there would be plenty of room. They're re
113 Post contains images Tornado82 : Yeah I do too, but only since your comment right here: It's not a conicidence you chose Allentown, so don't even try to act like it by saying (say).
114 Post contains images OPNLguy : Not in daily real-time operational use either, not that means anything to some... How exactly is WN competing "unfairly?" I'm confused on how WN fuel
115 Tornado82 : They will be if they get Wright repealed by hording gates in an airport with immense economical advantages. That's why you keep Wright in place, it k
116 Post contains images MarkATL : If we were discussing local ordinances such as the LGB slots, then I would agree. However, the Wright Amendment is federal. As such we all have a say
117 Post contains images OPNLguy : Oh, so you're assuming something that hasn't actually happened, but "might" then.. Oh, OK...
118 SCCutler : Glad you caught the "subtle" reference, no slight aimed at you (and none delivered) and equally valid for those in other cities for whom the debate i
119 HPLASOps : Re-read the whole paragraph, I meant if WN had not been successful it would've been a bad gamble just like building an airport overcapacity. DL and B
120 HPLASOps : Re-read the whole paragraph, I meant if WN had not been successful it would've been a bad gamble just like building an airport overcapacity would hav
121 OPNLguy : Whose assessment is this? SWA's, or someone's personal opinion? We seem to be "managing" somehow....
122 Post contains links LoneStarMike : Quoting Tornado82 (reply 102)No, you're missing the point. You CANNOT fit all of the air traffic of Chicagoland into O'Hare.You CANNOT fit all of the
123 MarkATL : I'll repeat my reply on #112.....Quoting HPLASOps (Reply 111): Things do happen, like WN outgrowing their home airport Outgrown by butt. If the city
124 OPNLguy : The north councourse are offices, and classrooms...
125 Post contains images NateDAL : I learned about this group when I saw the ad for the first time on Wednesday. I wish that I had an airsickness bag with me at the time because I nearl
126 Post contains links LoneStarMike : Quoting MarkATL (reply 112)Outgrown by butt. If the city hadn't decided to use the Branniff and Delta gates for non airport activities there would be
127 ScottB : Actually, IAD has plenty of land to accommodate its own operations and DCA's as well; all they'd have to do is build another runway and another mid-f
128 Pensacolaguy : MOB/PNS is irrelevant: MOB is 63.7 miles/103 km to PNS. (More then an hours away driving) Each airport is independent of each other. Different airlin
129 OPNLguy : If they have moved, it's been pretty recent. I'm picking up a cousin coming in in a few hours and will find out when I'm up there. Funny how that is,
130 Post contains links SPREE34 : Incorrect. Wrong. NO. This is not true. The delays would tally up rather quickly from around 8am to about 11pm. You can go to www.faa.gov and get the
131 MarkATL : The point is all those including IAD, JFK, ORD and IAH were built to replace airports that remaind open due to the local market wanting those airport
132 Tornado82 : Well considering that up until an announcement 2 days ago, ILG didn't have commercial service, and that it's in a different state from Philly, with a
133 Post contains images MarkATL : Actually WN was the one that tried DET. Isn't AA the one that calls Arlington Dallas instead of WN that calls Dallas....Dallas?
134 Tornado82 : And WN calls Glen Burnie or whatever the hell that is Baltimore and Washington DC. And together with everyone else calls Findlay Twp Pittsburgh. And
135 MarkATL : Don't forget El Segundo (LAX), San Bruno and Millbrae (SFO), Romulus (or how ever they spell that town DTW is in), East Point and College Park (ATL),
136 Post contains links OPNLguy : Check out Mike Boyd's treatment of the subject matter in his column this week at: http://www.aviationplanning.com/asrc1.htm (Scroll down a tad..) Love
137 Tornado82 : You can love the movie poster, but for someone who supposedly dislikes conflict in these threads you sure do keep resurrecting this one right as it ma
138 Post contains images OPNLguy : I was posting a link to a column that has something to do with the original topic of this thread. I'm sorry that you see that as supporting conflict,
139 HPLASOps : Whoa, did OPNLguy just link to someone who's AGAINST repealing of Wright? Boyd agreed with what I said earlier - this latest technique sucks but that
140 Steeler83 : So, LonestarMike... It looks like you're saying that WN should just quit with fighting Wright and move to DFW... I think that is a pretty solid option
141 Post contains images OPNLguy : If you think the mere fact that I linked something of his automatically means that I support Wright's retention, man, you're stretching...
142 HPLASOps : No but maybe I was hoping you would've seen the light a little bit and understand our point of view.
143 OPNLguy : Oh, I think I understand your POV alright; I just don't happen to agree with it.
144 DALNeighbor : Congress starts neutering Wright adding state after state to the Wright list and Ft. Worth, AA and DFW can go suck an egg because they have no say in
145 OPNLguy : If no meaningful progress is made during the summer, I suspect that's exactly what we'll all see....
146 Cjpark : HPLASOps, What torques the pro repeal drove about this Stop and Think Organization is that it finally gives local people who oppose the efforts of WN
147 Post contains images Steeler83 : Fair enough... (directed to DFW, AA...) cry me a river...
148 OPNLguy : Pro-repeal folks (at least the ones I've conversed with--I don't presuppose to speak for all of them) don't have a problem with the group forming, but
149 DALNeighbor : Stop and think won't have any impact on the matter just like AA's study predicting doom and gloom hasn't had any impact. The flying public can see ri
150 Tornado82 : And WN has no say either, that's a two-way street.
151 DALNeighbor : I'm confident Congress is moving in the right direction regarding Wright.
152 Steeler83 : And I am sure that WN is just crushed at this...
153 Cjpark : You just don't get it do you. Whether or not the group will have an effect on the WA who knows that is not the point. The effort is being directed at
154 HPLASOps : Yes but if American carried themselves with a little more dignity in this fight, the opinions voiced on their support site might carry a little more
155 OPNLguy : Only problem with that statement is that it (repeal) doesn't just benefit Southwest--it benefits any airline that choses to fly out of Love. It amaze
156 DALNeighbor : Oh, I get it. And so do most people. I get that the only reason this charade is taking place is because AA pumped $500k into this last ditch desperat
157 Steeler83 : Yeah, really. Wouldn't Dallas benefit from that as well, and isn't it WN's business plan to try and serve every market they can that will turn over a
158 Post contains images Tornado82 : Yeah, because all the other airlines want to go to the niche airport in the hood that only serves 1/2 the spread-out metroplex as opposed to the cent
159 Steeler83 : Going back to the thread starter... I love that sarcastic post "Every time you repeal the W.A. God kills a kitten." I think my respect rating for AA a
160 OPNLguy : If they want to, they'll be able to... If those other airlines are not at Love, one could suppose it's because they don't want to put up Wright's res
161 Post contains images OPNLguy : The guy over on USAviation that originated it in May of last year did it as a "what-if" of an over-the-top campaign. Who could have anticipated then
162 HPLASOps : Fine, I know they want to be profitable, every airline wants to be - and most of them use DFW. Besides, would WN be profitable at DAL if it weren't f
163 HPLASOps : No, the other airlines choose DFW because the airport has better facilities, better access to EVERYONE in the metroplex, not just Dallas biz travelle
164 OPNLguy : Yes, and flipping that around, if you get less (no Taj Mahal international terminal and Skylink, neither of which you need), you pay less... Minimizi
165 Post contains images OPNLguy : And you base this on what...?
166 Steeler83 : And I believe that WN is paying less at MDW, but I highly doubt that they are getting less... Besides, what all does WN use terminals for... Gates, l
167 Tornado82 : I meant the metroplex as a whole. Beyond the standard flights to their hubs/focus cities, they're not in the metroplex. Dallas is an AA/WN show, just
168 Post contains images OPNLguy : Maybe if some non-Southwest airline also had a few hundred million in infrastructure at Love, you would... I don't know, but you could call AA and as
169 HPLASOps : they also have alot of profits they could invest for their future.
170 Tornado82 : The Dallas-Fort Worth metroplex is THEIR market just like it's Southwest's. Did you not read my post about that??? I'm talking ALL THE OTHER AIRLINES
171 TxAgKuwait : >> Why would an airline with any common sense spend the money to move to DAL to compete with the financially and clientele advantaged Southwest in a g
172 HPLASOps : I don't think American cares where WN chooses to do their business at. However, AA does care when another carrier chooses to operate out of an inferi
173 TxAgKuwait : >>However, AA does care when another carrier chooses to operate out of an inferior airport then tries to get the law changed to make the inferior airp
174 HPLASOps : WN is a threat to AA because WN has done a lot of rock throwing at AA and their tactics at DFW. WN also has a good marketing department which has bra
175 TxAgKuwait : >> didn't say AA would be pissed off that an airline chose to operate out of DAL, just if someone operated out of a restricted airport and then fought
176 HPLASOps : What your story fails to leave out is that the airline didn't get to be big time until the 1980s, therefore not giving it much motivation to fight a
177 TxAgKuwait : Up until recently, Dallas/Ft Worth had two carriers with significant hubs. You had Delta and Braniff and American until Crandall's American managed to
178 HPLASOps : So it's okay for WN to challenge a law when it was convenient for them to do so, rather than challenge the law for what they claim is an inherent evi
179 TxAgKuwait : >>I just can fathom why WN didn't challenge it in the 80s (regardless of the status of AA, DL, and BN at DFW) And all of you soothesayers seem pretty
180 Tornado82 : How can you even sit there with a straight face and compare with almighty Southwest with that joke, Vanguard? What next, comparing Southwest to Mesa?
181 OPNLguy : The number of routes is immaterial. The point remains that AA wanted to get rid of a rule the encumbered them, and did so, just like SWA is trying to
182 Tornado82 : And once again Southwest wants rules stretched far beyond the norm. AA asked for one city, Southwest wants approximately 50. Since you ignored it whe
183 OPNLguy : Exactly why are Love's advantages "unfair", because of the lower costs when compared to DFW? DFW's costs (landing fees, for one) because it's a big p
184 TxAgKuwait : >>Southwest can't play "Poor little us" like they did back in the 70's. They're now the 800 pound gorilla. Only Major League Baseball gives special pe
185 TxAgKuwait : and in honor of America West/USAirways Arizona headquarters, we'll call them the giant gila monster.
186 Post contains links LoneStarMike : Quoting TxAgKuwait (reply 173)If Southwest moved to DFW, then American would have carte blanche to employ the dirty tricks they have used so successfu
187 Tornado82 : Are walk-up fares all you people care about? I've bought one in my entire life, only as an "insurance" as you will against an approaching snowstorm,
188 Tornado82 : Last I checked the taxiways at an airfield have never had a "Minimum Speed Limit" like an interstate highway. Now if you'd put say a 15-20kt MAXIMUM
189 OPNLguy : While you may have only purchased one yourself, there are plenty of folks who are not on expense accounts, and are not the Joe Q. Travelers you presu
190 DALNeighbor : Your arguments for keeping Wright don't hold water and there is a reason why. You've demonstrated time and again that you simply hate WN because they
191 Tornado82 : Ironically, I had never even heard of that quote before until posting in these threads. It was painfully obvious that SWA came to kill US @ PHL long
192 OPNLguy : I've offered an explanation, which you appear to reject in favor of your own beliefs (fine) but a personal slam (not fine) just takes this discussion
193 Steeler83 : I really did not buy into that "WN is going to kill us" bit. WN coming to PHL and PIT was a very good thing. Sure, PHL was and is supremely overcrowde
194 Post contains images OPNLguy : What a concept, eh?
195 Post contains images USPIT10L : While I don't support the Wright Amendment in anyway, Tornado82 does have a point. But WN is not designed for medium-sized markets like BGM, ERI, and
196 Steeler83 : Yeah... And might I add that US is expected to post a profit some time in the near future mostly because of the decision to merge with another LCC...
197 OPNLguy : Yes, he does, but it's also besides the point in that WN has never offered themselves as such. Will the business model someday be modified to go afte
198 Tornado82 : If it's in regards to someone else making an assumption about MY views... No! I know my views, he's assuming my views, if I tell him he's wrong (like
199 TxAgKuwait : I will give Tornado some minor credit - in listing Southwest's markets as being the "top 30 MSAs" he did take the time to mention the Intra-state carr
200 MattRB : Solution: DFW scraps everything south of South Airfield Drive and rebuilds it at the north end of the airport. With the newly cleared land at the sout
201 Post contains links OPNLguy : Since this thread has grown rather large, please continue in part-2 at: http://www.airliners.net/discussions...eneral_aviation/read.main/2688344/
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