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OLD Fleets  
User currently offlineJepper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (14 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1315 times:

Which airline have the oldest fleet? I think NW would be a good guess

24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offline777gk From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1641 posts, RR: 18
Reply 1, posted (14 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 1148 times:

I'll venture a guess-- Reeve Aleutian

If they are still around, I read an article in Airways that said they still operate Electras and 727-100s on passenger services, and the 727 is a relatively new addition!


User currently offlineMlsrar From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 1417 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (14 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 1138 times:

Older fleets than NW:

SY(Sun Country) - DC10-15, 722
YX(Midwest Express) - DC9-10/-30, MD-83
CN(Chicago Express) - J31s
AT(Air Tran) - DC9-30, 717*
*Until delivery of their latest 717 on 11/00.






I mean, for the right price I’ll fight a lion. - Mike Tyson
User currently offlineSamurai 777 From Canada, joined Jan 2000, 2459 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (14 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1115 times:

Look at Canadian Airlines! Until recently, it still had those DC-10s and it still has the third largest fleet of 737-200s! This is mainly because the airline could no longer afford to order that many new a/c like the A320 (further orders were deferred), due to its serious debt load. Now that CP is merging with Air Canada, the 737-200 fleet isn't going to be around much longer.

Canadian Regional, CP's regional affiliate, has as many as 28 Fokker F28-1000s in its fleet. As with CP's fleet of 737-200s, the F28s won't be around much longer, either.

WestJet also has its entire fleet consisting of old 737-200s - about 15-20 of them. While it's a new airline, it chose those planes because they were very, very cheap - about $2-3 million for each 737-200. They will be phased out as the newer 737-700s come in, starting in 2001.


User currently offlineUAL_757 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (14 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1105 times:

America West
has got themselves an old fleet.
Very old! SO does TowerAir Very Old


User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 8037 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (14 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 1087 times:

If you want to fly the 732, better make plans soon! Due to new ICAO regulations in regards to noise and jet exhaust emissions, the 732 will be rapidly phased out from most airline fleets very quickly. Expect lots of A319 and 737-700 sales in the next few years or lots of 733/734/735 second hand sales from ILFC and GECAS lease fleets as airlines scramble to replace their non-compliant airliners.

User currently offlineTupolev154B2 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1332 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (14 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 1071 times:

I believe that this thread started by Jepper will eventually be turned into another airline-bashing thread by some rather known folks on this board. Please refrain from turning it into one and in the meantime please keep the tone down. Thanks.

As for my thoughts on the airline with the oldest fleets, I would throw my $0.02 into these carriers:

NW: 742's (not that old though), DC-9's, DC-10's
Metrojet: 732's
Air Koryo (national carrier of North Korea): IL-62's, TU-154's

Tupolev154B2



User currently offlineDesertJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7811 posts, RR: 16
Reply 7, posted (14 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 1060 times:

How are we defining "OLD" here??? There are certainly a lot of "OLD" types flying around, but equipment wise most aircraft in western airlines fleets are generally no older than 20 years old. Most of the 737-200 fleet are the newer "Advanced" models. Some as were delivered new to their airlines in the mid-80's... most aren't older than 1975 vintage. By far Northwest operates about 100 DC-9's, most of which average 25-30 years old, but they are maintained to the highest standard and have all been updated with new interiors.

As for the America West bashing... they do not have and "old" fleet by any standard. "Old" types include 15 ex-Ansett 737-200A's, which are about 20 years old. And 13 ex Republic and Eastern 757s, which are 15 years old... but would you call a 757 an "old" type??? Plus half of HP's fleet are new or newer Airbuses.

BUT... Back to the original intent of the post I would have to agree that Reeve Aleutian has one of the oldest fleets out there. But they are all well maintained and do the job they need to do well.



Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
User currently offlineAirfun From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 108 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (14 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1035 times:

America West has a fleet that is no more than 11 years old and fly very nice a319 and a320...I would have to say that one of the oldest airplanes I have ever been on is a flght from St louis to Detroit on southwest that plane was a piece of crap and more than one person mentioned "that what we get for flying cheap"...not to mention that Southwest failed to mentioned that we would be stopping..over and over again. When I asked about it they told me they were only required to tell me about stops that would require deplaning..very interesting. Not that I mind taking off and landing, however my mother was very tense and by the time we got there she was drained and tired and of course we all paid the price. Wasn't worth the savings.

User currently offlineDC-9CAPT From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (14 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1018 times:

"Lady, you want me to answer you if this old airplane is safe to fly? Just how in the world do you think it got to be this old?"

— Jim Tavenner
------------------------------------------------------

All you youngsters that think that it has to be "new" in order to be "good", ought to take heed in the quote above. Just because it has a coffee table and joystick with cute little winglets doesn't make it the be all and end all of aerospace engineering.


User currently offlineNWA Man From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1828 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (14 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1014 times:

I think NW has the oldest fleet of the US majors, at an average of around 19 years (The A319s are helping to chip away at this number).
Interesting notes in defense of NW...

Some of NW's 757s are older than their 747-200s.

Take away the DC-9s and DC-10s and NW has the second youngest fleet of all the majors.

NW operates the largest fleet of Airbuses in the United States (yes, larger than United) and one of the largest Airbus fleets in the world.

All of NW's 727s will be gone by 2004. The oldest 727s will be retired beginning next year.

NWA Man



Create your own luck.
User currently offlineTrintocan From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2000, 3257 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (14 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 999 times:

Air Caribbean based here in POS owns 6 YS-11A-500s, which are all over 30 years old, plus 3 Boeing 737-200A. I do not know how old those are, however they were bought second-hand from Southwest and from Chinese operators. Only 2 of the YS-11s fly at present - the rest are stored.

Those 732s do emit lots of emissions on take-off and in flight - really awful indeed. They are also somewhat noisy on take-off and inflight.

Put another way, those planes make rival BWIA's 737-800s and Dash 8 Q300s seem like godsends...

 
Trintocan.



Hop to it, fly for life!
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29836 posts, RR: 58
Reply 12, posted (14 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 981 times:

I think you have a good shot at being right there.

Both of the 727-22C's that they have are 1966 builds, they got them in 84.

The Electras all are mid fifties vintages.

And their YS-11's have been sold off.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineGmjh_air From Sweden, joined Aug 2000, 110 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (14 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 980 times:

I don't mistrust you or your airplane, it's the maintenance of a plane that counts, regardless of age, but a bit more so when older of course.
An old fleet requires the highest standards of maintenance and that is not the case today at many airlines.


And you can never get away from the fact that the new "cute" joysticks and other gadgets help to improve overall safety by reducing the workload on the flight deck.


User currently offlineCSA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (14 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 965 times:

I would say Samara Airlines
They are still flying with those old AN-24s and have quite a large fleet of TU-134s.


User currently offlineFrontierMan From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 413 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (14 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 964 times:

The thing that kills me is, that Cargo airlines have less accidents and operate far older planes (DC-8s, 707s). Why is that? Shouldn't they be crashing all the time according to everyone's comments? Aren't older planes unsafe? If that were the case wouldn't these DC-8s crash all the time.

I think First Air of Canada is up there. They are operating an old fleet of aircraft. 727-100s and I believe some ATPS and YS-11.


User currently offlineMlsrar From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 1417 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (14 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 964 times:

I happen to count YX in the 'majors'...they're rated in the Zagat Airline survey, and Conde Nast magazine--along with United, BA, Cathay, Northwest etc...
Their average airframe age is 26 years I believe, that puts them ahead of Northwest.




I mean, for the right price I’ll fight a lion. - Mike Tyson
User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 8037 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (14 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 940 times:

However, many older D8's (even in air cargo service) are heading to the scrapyard because of the age of the airframe and the fact they are using non-Stage III compliant engines.

The D8's and 721's that UPS flies are rebuilt to the point of they might as well be a new plane. These planes also sport FAR Part 36 Stage III-compliant engines (CFM56's for the D8's and Rolls-Royce Tay for the 721's), so it allows them to operate from most airports 24 hours a day. Also, the rest of UPS' jet fleet have Stage III-compliant planes: 742's, 762's, and A300-600's.


User currently offlineBH346 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3265 posts, RR: 14
Reply 18, posted (14 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 937 times:

Air Gabon uses the
-1 Hawker Siddley(HS) 748-2A
-1 HS 748MF
-1 Sud Caravelle

BH346



Northwest Airlines - Some People Just Know How to Fly
User currently offlineHermansCVR580 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 510 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (14 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 920 times:

Give me a bugless Douglas anytime over a computer flowen Airbust!!!! Grant it maintence is higher on older planes but that just makes me feel all the more safe. If an airline has a DC-9 or 727 that is 20+ years old and it wasnt safe they wouldnt fly it. Everynight I see MWE working on their DC-9's at their maintence center and then in the morning those same planes leave safely for LGA,DFW ect ect..... Every day over and over. Just think of how many of these kinds of planes takeoff and land safely every day and night. Remember when NWA retires their last Airbus the crew will jumpseat home in one of their DC-9's


The right decision at the wrong time, is still a wrong decision. "Hal Carr"
User currently offlineHermansCVR580 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 510 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (14 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 914 times:

Give me a bugless Douglas anytime over a computer flowen Airbust!!!! Grant it maintence is higher on older planes but that just makes me feel all the more safe. If an airline has a DC-9 or 727 that is 20+ years old and it wasnt safe they wouldnt fly it. Everynight I see MWE working on their DC-9's at their maintence center and then in the morning those same planes leave safely for LGA,DFW ect ect..... Every day over and over. Just think of how many of these kinds of planes takeoff and land safely every day and night. Remember when NWA retires their last Airbus the crew will jumpseat home in one of their DC-9's


The right decision at the wrong time, is still a wrong decision. "Hal Carr"
User currently offlineAC183 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 1532 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (14 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 908 times:

FrontierMan, First Air flies neither YS.11's nor ATP's. Their planes are hardly new with the likes of 727-100's and -200's, and some 737-200's (which are old, but some of them are as new as '80's built), and a Herc. Their turboprop fleet is HS.748's and DHC Twotters and some assorted others, which are on average '70's built. The only really old aircraft are their single DC-3 (keeps going and going) and their one or two Beavers, which are the DC-3's of bush flying. So overall the fleet is old, but very tough (needed for arctic flying), and hardly as old as some of the aircraft mentioned on this thread (Reeve's Electras)...

User currently offlineSpence From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 95 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (14 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 883 times:

I think Chicago Express is flying all Saab 340B's now, are they not?

User currently offlineFanofjets From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 2005 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (14 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 881 times:

Some of the oldest planes I have flown on were Air Canada DC-9s, British Airways 747s, and KLM 747s. The planes, however, seemed to be well cared for, and I felt entirely confident flying them.

UPS uses 1960s-vintage 727 shorties on its passenger charters; however, with their complete overhauls, new engines, and glass cockpits, they are "newer" than many of the "new" planes in other fleets.

Northern Air Cargo of Alaska has a fleet of DC-6s, and Air Atlantique has some birds of even greater vintage. Judging from the pictures I have seen, these planes appear to be beautifully maintained.

This all goes to show, an airplane that receives good care can keep on flying!



The aeroplane has unveiled for us the true face of the earth. -Antoine de Saint-Exupery
User currently offlineCSA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (14 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 872 times:

I AGREE WITH YOU TOTALLY, GIVE ME A 20 YEAR OLD DC9 AND NOT A COMPUTERIZED A319!

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