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Awful Accident In Colombia (caught On Video)  
User currently offlineJsqvl1 From Colombia, joined Mar 2005, 36 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 9 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 33394 times:

Here' the link of the video:

http://www.colombiaserver.com/apps/accidente.mpg (14.9MB)

The video was presented by Noticas RCN, a news segment from Canal RCN of Colombia

The plane was operated by Patrulla Aérea Colombiana (Colombian Air Patrol), a non-profit organization that helps people with medical assistance on remote places of Colombia.

There was 4 people on board: The pilot and chief of medical staff, another doctor, a little boy recently operated, and the mother of the boy. Just the pilot survived, but he has burnings on 95% of his body and is fighting for his life.

May all they rest in peace.

Edited for spelling

[Edited 2006-03-22 01:32:47]

[Edited 2006-03-22 01:35:18]


"SAM hace amigos volando", o al menos solía hacerlos...
117 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTavong From Colombia, joined Jul 2001, 836 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (8 years 9 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 33334 times:

I'm so sorry for the fellow colleagues, patient and i hope the pilot survives.

God bless their souls.

Gus
SKBO



Colombian coffee, the best...take a cup and you will see how delicious it is.
User currently offlineAMSMAN From Ireland, joined Jan 2002, 1016 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (8 years 9 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 33316 times:

I'm not a pilot but would it be becuase of the pilot trying to get airbourne too early and stalling the a/c?


Aer Lingus, Proud to be Irish.
User currently offlineMeister808 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 973 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (8 years 9 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 33257 times:

Quoting AMSMAN (Reply 2):
I'm not a pilot but would it be becuase of the pilot trying to get airbourne too early and stalling the a/c?

Yep... you hit it right on the head. It is a shame how many people perish in accidents like this one where the pilot is simply trying to make the airplane do something that is not physically possible. It would be the same thing as you standing in a room and trying to get to the next one by walking through the wall, not by using the door... you can try all you want, but you'll just run into the wall a bunch. A pilot can try to make an airplane fly above the critical angle of attack, but it just isn't going to happen.

-Meister



Twin Cessna 812 Victor, Minneapolis Center, we observe your operation in the immediate vicinity of extreme precipitation
User currently offlineKhobar From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2379 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (8 years 9 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 33195 times:

I wonder if the plane was overloaded.

User currently offlineAMSMAN From Ireland, joined Jan 2002, 1016 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (8 years 9 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 33195 times:

Quoting Meister808 (Reply 3):
It is a shame how many people perish in accidents like this one where the pilot is simply trying to make the airplane do something that is not physically possible

It is sad, one can only wonder now, why the pilot did indeed try to get airbourne so soon.

Sad times! RIP



Aer Lingus, Proud to be Irish.
User currently offlineBravo45 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 2165 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (8 years 9 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 33097 times:

We should wait for the investigation before blaming it on anyone, I hope the pilot survivies.
Its a pretty standard takoff procedure when taking off from a soft field to lift off early but then the a/c is supposed to accelerate in ground effect before start climbing. The flaps were lowered further suggesting he was executing a shoft-field takeoff. Looks like there was sufficient crosswind to stray the a/c to a side. That might have caused the pilot to fear hitting the bulidings or trees and that concern might have forced him to try to climb to clear them.

But then again this is speculation, we don't know what his airspeed was.


User currently offlineBravo45 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 2165 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (8 years 9 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 33050 times:

On watching the video again, notice the people standing in the direct path of the extended centerline of the runway, that might have been the cause for the pilot to turn to a side instead of a cross wind. And he then might have to try to climb to clear the obstacles.

There can be other possibilities as well, nothing better can come out of this tragedy other than the survival of the pilot, if he does make it (I hope he does) he can hopefully give his account.

They probably need to look at the factors on the ground, people shouldnot be roaming on the airfields like that. They may very well have been the cause of this tragedy.


User currently offlineThecamel67 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 34 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 9 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 33025 times:

May not be early rotation. Other possible causes of the stall are over max gross weight, outside cg limits, and/or density altitude. Also possible that there was some engine trouble (don't know Spanish so not sure what the commentary by the reporter was.) Either way, a very sad accident.

As as US based Angel Flight pilot, I can tell you that gross weight/cg issues are always a consideration when carrying pax in small aircraft. It is very sad that this happened.


User currently offlineFlightShadow From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1040 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (8 years 9 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 33025 times:

That download doesn't work for me...I mean I can download it, but then can't play it. Something about "error downloading codec"  Sad


"When the tide goes out, you can tell who was skinnydipping."
User currently offlineBravo45 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 2165 posts, RR: 11
Reply 10, posted (8 years 9 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 32969 times:

Yeah I forgot to mention possible engine trouble and ofcourse the CG and weight. It could (as most accidents are) be a result of a combination of things.

User currently offlineThecamel67 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 34 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 9 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 32948 times:

Quoting Bravo45 (Reply 7):
On watching the video again, notice the people standing in the direct path of the extended centerline of the runway,

Watch it carefully again. The airplane started to drift off cenerline very early in the takeoff. Can't tell what the alieron and rudder positions were to determine if he was using proper crosswind techniques but you can assume by the result he was not.

When attempting a short/soft field takeoff it is important that you stay within ground effect (1'~2') until you gain enough speed for Vx (best angle) climbout.


User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5122 posts, RR: 28
Reply 12, posted (8 years 9 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 32916 times:

Unable to see it either. Looks like the link is broken.


I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineAeroflot777 From Russia, joined Mar 2004, 3015 posts, RR: 26
Reply 13, posted (8 years 9 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 32885 times:

My computer shut down by itself when I opened this video! Quite weird and sudden..

Aeroflot777


User currently offlineJsqvl1 From Colombia, joined Mar 2005, 36 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 9 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 32772 times:

Quoting FlightShadow (Reply 9):
That download doesn't work for me...I mean I can download it, but then can't play it. Something about "error downloading codec"

Try using a different player.

For those who use Windos Media player, when you start downloading, it looks like the computer is freezed, but it's still working



"SAM hace amigos volando", o al menos solía hacerlos...
User currently offlineJsqvl1 From Colombia, joined Mar 2005, 36 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 9 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 32631 times:

...anyway

I put it on YouTube to avoid problems playing the file

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZWC2XJYgcJU

Hope it helps



"SAM hace amigos volando", o al menos solía hacerlos...
User currently offlineHighFlyer9790 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 1241 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 years 9 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 32582 times:

It looked like the C172 was way over its Max t/o weight...

[Edited 2006-03-22 03:41:32]


121
User currently offlineLuisca From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (8 years 9 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 32512 times:

Interesting that the pilot tells the lady to not touch the pedals, seems like the plane is slipping to the right, could it be that the lady, who seemed really freaked out slammed the right pedal?

User currently offlineCOERJ145 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1421 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (8 years 9 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 32381 times:

Quoting HighFlyer9790 (Reply 16):
It looked like the C172 was way over its Max t/o weight...

Same here, it also looked like the a/c didn't gain enough speed for the t/o.


User currently offlineRedneckslim From Congo (Brazzaville), joined Sep 2005, 97 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 9 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 32365 times:

Time the take off roll.... a classic stall with poor W/B as well. WTF did you see the jerks standing right in front of the strip? Who ever allowed a plane in the hands of incompentant fools like this? In avation, it's a time honored law, fate does not suffer lighty the hands of fools.

User currently offlineLuisca From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 9 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 32310 times:

Quoting COERJ145 (Reply 18):
Same here, it also looked like the a/c didn't gain enough speed for the t/o

He was performing a typical SOFT FIELD TAKEOFF Procedure

From the Cessna Manual
Flaps 10, do rolling takeoff and slowly accelerate to full power, full back pressure, once the nose of the plane lifts off maintain constant back pressure until airplane lifts off, lower nose and accelerate to Vx while staying on ground effect. Once over 200 feet retract flaps and accelerate to Vy.

Quoting Redneckslim (Reply 19):
Time the take off roll.... a classic stall with poor W/B as well. WTF did you see the jerks standing right in front of the strip? Who ever allowed a plane in the hands of incompentant fools like this? In avation, it's a time honored law, fate does not suffer lighty the hands of fools

slow down and get your facts straight before you make accusations

The airplane seemed to be slipping to the right, if the airplane slips to the right the increased drag will not allow it to accelerate to Vx and it will slow down so much that ground effect will not be enough to keep the airplane airborne, if you look at the rudder closely the rudder seems to be deflected, hence my suggestion, read reply 17.


User currently offlineBravo45 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 2165 posts, RR: 11
Reply 21, posted (8 years 9 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 32208 times:

Quoting Luisca (Reply 20):
He was performing a typical SOFT FIELD TAKEOFF Procedure

I thought a being mildly critical of their accusations without knowing the facts will be enough for them, certainly I was wrong. Lets see if your post does anything.

You guys can say all you want, I am glad they don't let just anybody write the conclusive reports.
Again I would wait for the investigation reports before even thinking of blaming anyone.

Quoting Redneckslim (Reply 19):
Time the take off roll....

There is a shift in the camera that we are getting the footage from, it doesnot show the complete roll so you CANNOT time the takeoff roll acurately. Secondly there is NO calculation for the time it takes to takeoff.


User currently offlineLuisde8cd From Pitcairn Islands, joined Aug 2004, 2575 posts, RR: 31
Reply 22, posted (8 years 9 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 32110 times:

Quoting Luisca (Reply 17):
Interesting that the pilot tells the lady to not touch the pedals, seems like the plane is slipping to the right, could it be that the lady, who seemed really freaked out slammed the right pedal?

Could be the reason, but couldn't the pilot use his pedals to counter the lady's actions ?

Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis


User currently offlineLuisca From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (8 years 9 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 32096 times:

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 22):
but couldn't the pilot use his pedals to counter the lady's actions ?

If you are really strong enough you will not be able to counter it, it comes down to basically a battle of the wills, whoever has the strongest legs wins.


User currently offlineJsqvl1 From Colombia, joined Mar 2005, 36 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (8 years 9 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 31727 times:

It has been reported by RCN that the pilot just died...


"SAM hace amigos volando", o al menos solía hacerlos...
25 Alberchico : don't want to sound too cruel but with 95% of his body horribly burned mabye it was for the best that his troubles have finally ended.....
26 Post contains images AR1300 : Holly f***ing shit!!!It made me cry.It looks like it was overwight to me, but again, I'm just a humble PPL with not to many hours....And the comments
27 Post contains images CO7e7 : I totally agree. May he RIP
28 757MDE : I'm sorry for the Patrulla Aérea and all the people that receive its services (anyboby saw the Pirry program on them? - Colombians or people who get
29 Fly727 : Quiet a shocking video. Any way to save it to my hard disk? (From the link on YouTube provided) I'd like to show it to some colleagues... That yaw aft
30 Salukipilot : I dont know if it matters much but it looks to me like its a Cessna 182 Skylane and the pilot attemped a soft field departure w/o leveling off in grou
31 757MDE : He died tonight (March 21st night)
32 Rdu777 : It looks as though the plane is overweight for takeoff. As said earlier the pilot seems to be doing a soft field takeoff which all seems right. That w
33 AEroc : We might never know what caused this, but maybe something happened in the cabin.....ie...things not tied down right and a shift in CG or someone other
34 JBirdAV8r : That's a 182 Skylane. I have most of my hours in one. Flaps appear to be set to 20 for a soft-field takeoff. The engine sounds like the stock O-470,
35 Lamyl_hhlco : The plane was fully loaded adding an big oxygen tank on the back . A soft field take off on that situation was not recommended due to an aft CG.(if yo
36 Stealth777 : once he noted that the aircraft was veering to the right quickly, i assume he was not able to just put the plane down back on the runway since he was
37 F9Animal : I wont try to come up with causes, but did it look like the prop blade was sluggish? Could be the camera, but even during startup, it seemed like it w
38 Legacy135 : Very very sad, such things always touch me emotionally. They all wanted to help and it resulted disastrous. There is nothing wrong of getting the plan
39 Mika : That is perhaps the most tragic thing i ever saw captured on video..very very sad. My thoughts are with the family and friends of the ones lost in thi
40 We're Nuts : It was a foregone conclusion anyway. Using the simple equation (burn area + age = n%), you can get a generally accurate measure of the odds of death.
41 Treg : Just out of curiosity: Where did it happen? (i.e. what place?) R.I.P.
42 Tavong : If you put it in a way simple word the survival rate of a burn it's inversely proportional to the % of burned skin, it really was extremely difficult
43 Bongo : He already died.
44 Iluv2pilot : No doubt about it, it was over it's Max Wt.
45 DTW757 : Very sad indeed and horrible to watch. As a pilot with time in 172's and 182's it appears to me that the right corrections were not made for some reas
46 Post contains links and images DTW757 : I've thought about that as well. This aircraft appears to be a 182 like the one pictured below. I have only flown a new 182 with a 3 bladed constant
47 Nworlnsbearcub : God awful.... It made me cry a bit. RIP Michael Austin, TX
48 Crash65 : How much do you think that oxygen tank weighed? There could have been more equipment and luggage on board that we can't see. Definitetly looks more l
49 ManuCH : My opinion: I don't think an overweight plane or one with an aft cg would yaw so abruptly to one side. It would have stalled, but more straight ahead.
50 Bohlman : Some of the people mentioning CG and weight as an issue. Well, maybe, sure, but none of us can be sure just from looking at it. Of the people who have
51 Rolfen : Former Lebanese minister Fleihan was riding with Hariri when his car was bombed about a year ago. Fleihan survived with burns over 95% of his body. H
52 Post contains images Boo25 : Shocking, so sad Rest In Peace There seems to be alot of drift after rotation, and i'm guessing that holding the nose high, dropped the already precar
53 RichM : That's a terrible accident. Does anyone happen to know what the news report was about? Obviously, it wasn't about the crash.
54 Lockheed : Pretty obvious that he was stalling from lift off until crash…
55 Luisca : They were documenting the flight for a TV program, that is why RCN had a camera man on location.
56 Post contains links RICARIZA : It was in a very poor zone in the south west of Colombia between the states of Narino (border with Ecuador) and Cauca. They were trying to take the l
57 Post contains images RICARIZA : A map of the trip they intended to make and the place of the accident: As I said before, this is in the south west of Colombia, near Ecuador. These s
58 Bohlman : And it's pretty obvious you didn't read any of the posts in this thread.
59 Post contains images FLY2HMO : Unless you have a C182 with a 14 cylinder P&W radial engine up front with a 100" prop, what you said is incorrect. In the C172 (which I fly very ofte
60 Rolfen : I think that for some reason the plane found itself veering to the right as soon as it was airborne, which forced the pilot to gain altitude to avoid
61 RICARIZA : I guess we will, that's what investigations are for.
62 Post contains images Fly727 : Quiet a shocking video. Any way to save it to my hard disk? (From the link on YouTube provided) I'd like to show it to some colleagues... RM
63 Post contains links 757MDE : I don't know about that exact one, but you can save the extract from the RCN news footage, just use a download manager and use as URL: http://noticias
64 Post contains images Legacy135 : Ok Arturo, I see, you flew much more C172 than me. What ground rolls do you normally anticipate? At what speed do you normally rotate? Did you ever f
65 JBirdAV8r : If you reread my post carefully, you'll see that I clearly pointed out my assumptions (and I even called them "assumptions") based on hundreds of hou
66 Skippy777 : He should have aborted take of while still on the runway. To much weight was there, also a lot of medical equipement was onboard and that can be very
67 RiddlePilot215 : May God bless those in that crash...But there's a part of me that's slightly unsympathetic towards that pilot...call me heartless.. I noticed a few t
68 Post contains images Legacy135 : Very good post! Thank you for the input. Cheers Legacy135
69 Post contains images Treg : Thank you! I visited Colombia last year. What an amazing country. Sad to hear that these things happen to the people trying to help others
70 Onetogo : You say this after claiming you have over 3000 hrs? Yikes!!
71 JBirdAV8r : Riddle, That looks exactly like 20 degrees of flap, which is generally recommended for soft-field takeoffs in a 182. The airplane is a 182, not a 172
72 RiddlePilot215 : A) I noticed it was a 182 as soon a I watched the video again. B) You have to be a pilot, because only pilots live in a world where airplanes fly wit
73 Post contains images Luisca : Aren't riddle guys geniuses!
74 Miamiair : Your comments and observations have been on the money, along with those of Legacy135.
75 JBirdAV8r : I'm not sure what you meant by that statement, but I'm going to pretend it wasn't an insult. Yes, airplanes are built with a margin of error--but why
76 Texfly101 : When my father taught me to fly (he was an instrument flight instructor at Wright Pat), short field takeoffs were early in the instruction regime. And
77 757MDE : There's no such a thing as a prosecution to a dead Pilot because of an Accident in Colombian law. Should they unbury him and cut his fingers or what?
78 RobertS975 : Burns that extensive are generally fatal 100% of the time... just a matter of time, unfortunately.
79 Rolfen : I never flew an airplane but I have the feeling that this flight was pretty much doomed from the moment the aircraft banked to the right. What a trage
80 FSPilot747 : Here's what I notice just from looking at it. Take it as you wish. If he was performing a soft-field takeoff, based on what I could see, it didn't loo
81 FSPilot747 : Considering the nature of the accident, this doesn't really matter, but that airplane is not 20 years old. I fly those things on a weekly basis and i
82 Bohlman : I don't believe I quoted directly, nor did I in any way intend to "poo-poo" your views or speculation at all. You made educated guesses, one of which
83 Legacy135 : I know, by watching this video such a judgment is quickly made. But please remind, this poor guy lost his live as well, The way I would not even like
84 Baw716 : It's always hard to hear that an aircraft has gone down; worse still to watch it (again and again on video). There have been many plausable theories a
85 Post contains links and images JBirdAV8r : Aw, FSP, I know you love to take issue with everything I say but I'm right on this one. Sure, the performance decrease SHOULD be negligible, but who
86 Post contains links and images Legacy135 : Colombia is a civilized and well organized country. If you once go there, you might be living this "aha effect" as you find many things look pretty m
87 RCS763AV : Wow. Terrible. Also coming from a very poor town....i say its horrible but those things happen all the time. May they RIP.
88 RICARIZA : Thank you Legacy.. Count on it..
89 BAW716 : Legacy135, There was nothing in my post that intimated that Colombia would not conduct an investigation or impugned the investigative abilities of the
90 FSPilot747 : I stand corrected on the age of the airplane (looks can be decieving), however I challenge your statement that the age of the airplane makes a differ
91 JBirdAV8r : Your statement is of course valid. I suppose I was thinking in terms of engine performance; we don't know if he had full rated power available or not
92 757MDE : I'm not speaking on behalf on Legacy135. Most of we Colombians are just tired to see replies that make us think like what is quoted on my reply being
93 LN-ATC : The aircraft registration appears to be HK-2067. According to a non-official aircraft register site HK-2067 is (or was...) a 182Q, cn 182-65867. Proba
94 FSPilot747 : Well I wasn't trying to dispute you to start with, just stating that airplane age shouldn't be a factor. Even if we did know that the engine power av
95 Bohlman : Um... while your overall point is valid, your specifics in the first part of the sentence are a little misleading. An airplane with a thrust-weight r
96 Post contains images Legacy135 : I am sorry David, if you got me wrong on that. The idea was never to mark you as what you describe as "a stupid American". I do apologize if I made y
97 RiddlePilot215 : If the pilot was still alive, yes. The accident could have CLEARLY been avoided if there wasn't a case of gross negligence involved. If air traffic c
98 DTW757 : This can be done depending on the size of the people. It's all in weight and balance. I've personally flown a new 182 with 4 men in it. Now I wouldn'
99 FSPilot747 : I did write it a little confusingly, sorry. The basic point is that the engines overcome the weight of the airplane. Or, High Thrust to Weight Ratio-
100 RiddlePilot215 : When I mean people, I mean like full grown adults, anywhere from 180-230 pounds...not including their crap
101 Post contains links Bohica : All I get is this: Bandwidth Limit Exceeded The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to the site owner reaching his/her bandwidth
102 Post contains links Jsqvl1 : Try: http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZWC2XJYgcJU
103 JBirdAV8r : Whoa, battle of egos! You'd think we'd have a battle of CFI's with a private thrown in to stir the brew. No, Bohlman, I didn't see that you'd written
104 Post contains links Bohlman : Airbus procedures are significantly different, and have nothing to do the aerodynamics, but rather their flight control systems. An Airbus aircraft h
105 JBirdAV8r : Then you have my apologies, Bohlman! I was wrong and I'm sorry. (and the ego battle thing was a joke as well, sorry I forgot the "winky" face).
106 Post contains images Rolfen : " target=_blank>http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZWC2XJYgcJU I never had the chance to thank you for posting this. Thanks
107 Post contains images Bohlman : Possibly the most frequently ommited item on this site! I also forgot my smily face on my post saying that I'd brought up the age issue too .
108 RiddlePilot215 : I've flown airplanes with 3 other people in it. I'm just very sketchy doing it because whenver you add more people in those things, out comes more ga
109 FSPilot747 : Yeah I'm aware of FBW and how it's different. But, imminent stall recovery in a jet (any jet) does not mandate nose down pitch. It's the same thing i
110 Bohlman : But again you run into the issue that it's not that you have to pitch up in a jet to recover from a stall, which is what you were suggesting. I can g
111 FSPilot747 : I thought you were trying to argue you need to go to negative pitch. In that case. I was trying to argue that negative pitch is against procedure for
112 Luisca : Is the God like complex course standard in the Aeronautical Science curriculum at Riddle? or did you take the elective. If you can make a full accide
113 Bohlman : I can understand where the confusion has come from, but keep in mind that a literal nose down pitch is not required on a piston either (especially a
114 FSPilot747 : It's alright, I'm glad we got the confusion straightened out.
115 BAW716 : Legacy135, Apology accepted, and your last point is well taken. Thanks baw716
116 Post contains links RICARIZA : A follow up article unfortunately only in Spanish: http://portal2.semana.com/wf_InfoArticuloNormal.aspx?IdArt=93501 It is a tribute to both brigadiers
117 Post contains images Rolfen : Uhm just for the record, what I meant is I never piloted an aircraft. Actually I did hold the controls of a cessna 152 for 15 minutes in flight and l
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