Argentina From Argentina, joined Aug 2000, 372 posts, RR: 13 Posted (12 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 1108 times:
In a difficult financial situation, as everybody knows, AR is starting new international routes, such as follows:
- Three weekly flights EZE-LAX nonstop using A340-200`s.
- Twice weekly flights EZE-Milan Malpensa (one via MAD and another via GRU-MAD) with B747-200`s
- Five weekly flights EZE-Paris CDG (4 via MAD, 1 via GRU-MAD) with B747-200`s.
- Three weekly flights EZE-LHR (via MAD-GRU) with B747-200`s.
What do you think of these movements? What are they related to?
Lima From Argentina, joined May 1999, 1122 posts, RR: 16 Reply 1, posted (12 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1004 times:
According to what appeared in local newspapers in past weeks (i.e.La Nacion) the Los Angeles route will be flown via Lima not nonstop.
About the other routes...where was this published??
The airline has lost so much market share during the last decade, including its most loyal customers due to bad service, change of aircraft in Madrid for European services (while most European airlines fly nonstop), etc, etc.
Federico From Belgium, joined May 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (12 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 949 times:
Not LAPA I'll say that! I got on that non-stop Buenos Aires-Atlanta again and once again we stopped in Cancun...that's the second time...and if they are trying to be an international airline the "business" service sucked! and needs major improvement. And that f/a could have been from AR cause she was in a bad mood and treating everyone like crap.
I'd like to see Southern Winds become international if any...when in Argentina I always use them...excellent airline...if they keep it together they could be a good replacement for AR. But we will see...nobody really wants to see AR go that would hurt Argentina more than you all realize. Unemployment is really high and adding 6,000+ more people to it, is not what you'd want to do.
I say Iberia needs to pay AR off back to the 0 balance when they bought into it in 91 and get somebody that really knows how to run an airline. Come on...most of you said it at one time "how come they are not making a profit?" We should ask Iberia. They didn't do what they promised. Do you all remember that in the early 90s AR was to have basically a new fleet B737-500s, more MD88s, B767-300ERs etc.....but IB never did that. Instead they kept adding old 737s that are now a maintenance problem as stated on the Airways article (99).
When they had the A310, that was the odd ball of the bunch and expensive to operate. And the 747 are expensive as well. Too many things that were done wrong.
Argentina From Argentina, joined Aug 2000, 372 posts, RR: 13 Reply 6, posted (12 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 931 times:
Well, so many answers. Thanks to all of you.
Concerning AR flight EZE-LAX, it was promoted as EZE-LIM-LAX, but if you check SABRE, you will see they have changed it, who knows why, to the following schedule three times a week:
EZE LAX 1130 2005 340 12.35 6140 miles
ARR-TOM BRADLEY INTL TERM
Argentina From Argentina, joined Aug 2000, 372 posts, RR: 13 Reply 8, posted (12 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 923 times:
These european routes appear in Global Distribution Systems, effective 29Sep2000. CDG and LHR are being flown again, since AR left them some time ago. MXP is completely new to its network. The problem with these routes is that I do not know who is goping to fly them. Would you buy an AR ticket to LHR, for instance, the route being EZE-GRU-MAD-LHR, while BA takes you 5 times a week EZE-LGW nonstop, with BA service?
The same happens to CDG with AF competition, and MXP with AZ. Do the clients for these routes exist? Isn`t this incoherent?
Lima From Argentina, joined May 1999, 1122 posts, RR: 16 Reply 9, posted (12 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 921 times:
About the European routes, the answer maybe in Brazil. They had a market there when they operated via Sao Paulo. They also had fifth freedom rights between MAD-LHR, and MAD-CDG and others flying Europeans between these points.
Last year when they received the A340 Aerolineas started nonstop service to Paris, later these being dropped due to low load factors. Similarly, they later switched to Rome nonstop but apparently this has recently been dropped in favour of the change of aircraft in Madrid.
Argentina From Argentina, joined Aug 2000, 372 posts, RR: 13 Reply 10, posted (12 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 913 times:
I also think Brazil is the point. They want to raise passengers at GRU, but I think to MAD, because to LHR/CDG/MXP, they again cannot compete with european airlines or brazilian airlines flying nonstop to these cities.
However, EZE-FCO nonstop with A340`s has not been dropped, apparently because of good load factor.
Concerning Oneworld, I think the alliance has the member in LAN. AR cannot compete with LAN in the situation it is now.
And who will follow AR if it goes bunkrupt? SW or LAPA? SW has the good service, but lacks fleet and strenght in new markets. LAPA has a fleet even to serve Latin America, but the service is quite bad. They should improve on their weaknesses to be the flag carrier.
Federico From Belgium, joined May 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (12 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 912 times:
Yes SW lacks fleet but that can be taken care of...LAPA yes it is bad service. LAPA is a chater or as they frequently mentioned LAPA = Southwest. And I don't see Southwest going international. LAPA should stick with what it knows and does....nothing more....if it wants to go internatinal they have a lot of work to do or else LAPA will be next to go.
Tailscraper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 12, posted (12 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 904 times:
Mmmmm...So I see AR are back at LHR. The Argentina-UK routes are the ones I take twice a year; at the moment, with BA.
If AR offer cheaper fares than BA to EZE (BA's fares are pretty competitive, excluding Club World and First, which are a rip-off), then they may get good load factors, and good luck to them.
However, my parents expect very good service AND reliability, which they get every time with BA. Let's face it, they're a great airline worldwide. We did try AR once, via Orly, (747SP as a matter of fact-it was leased).
The service was not impressive. The PA system broke down, the IFE (main sceen) broke down 5 hours into the flight, and the FA's were rude.
That was enough; adios AR, hello BA. And we've never changed, they're absolutely fabulous, and always on-time. The BA FA's are mostly Argentine, or Latinas, so it's not that Argentine FA's are rude, they just need good training (BA-say no more).
Everyone I know here flies BA to Latin America. Another fact. Guess what airline the Argentine ambassador to the UK flies home on. You've guessed it, BA (and they upgrade him from Club to First, well they should really).
SO, thanks AR, but no thanks. We're sticking to BA.
Why on earth is an airline on the verge of bankruptcy inaugarating new international routes? Madness!
Derico From Argentina, joined Dec 1999, 4233 posts, RR: 13 Reply 13, posted (12 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 898 times:
I think it's no coincidence that FA's from Argentina are rude...
...who are we kidding?? The fact is Argentinos in general are RUDE, sour people (much more than usual in the latest times), wheather you like to hear this or not. I flew AA once where there were a couple of Arg. FA's, a male and a female. They were both obnoxious as expected, and the female was not even pretty. I don't buy the theory that training makes a difference, weather it's British Airways or Zulu Air, when it's a national behavior (genetic??), there is no cure.
Ever heard of an airline with "self-service" on board???
Maybe they can do this in ARG. Saves money on personel, improves service quite a lot.
My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
Federico From Belgium, joined May 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (12 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 891 times:
Let's not start bashing Argentina or the people because wether you like it or not your statment Derico is flawed. There are "in general" ("much more than ususal in the latest times") rude people in Argentina just like there are rude people in the US, in Europe, the world...so please no bashing my country, my people, because of personal experiences, your own bitterness or sourness...but then again aren't you from Argentina or something like that? Do you consider yourself this way? by your post and user info...sounds like it.
I don't know ...anyone that knows me or my family would tell you that "we" don't fall into this assumption.
Who are we kidding??? At the end yourself really...the true fact is that "in general" Argentinos are good people...If your going to judge the whole country based on experineces with unhappy f/a's then..........so be it.....but...that's not right.
AVIA_ARG From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 15, posted (12 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 885 times:
I told you. Was I right or what? Seems to be an anti-argentina group in this forum. Anytime there is a topic about AR etc....I won't mention members names but people always criticize and make obnoxious comments.
I told you Fede, this is why I hardly ever make any posts anymore or share any info...who wants to deal with such comments.
Argentina From Argentina, joined Aug 2000, 372 posts, RR: 13 Reply 16, posted (12 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 886 times:
Maybe you are right. AR Flight attendants may be rude. Argentinians are very particular people, it is a general thought, probably "sour" like you say, but do you really think it is genetic? Me being an Argentinian, find myself not sour or rude. What do you think? Perhaps it has to do with the education we receive, and that makes people different, even if born in the same country. By the way, where are you from?
Bacardi182 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 1088 posts, RR: 1 Reply 18, posted (12 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 881 times:
well if we are all bashing argentine people, why don't i add my 2 cents.
has anybody in here recieved good service aboard an AR flight? i once had argentine FAs on american airlines and they were also rude as hell (in buisness class may i add!). i flew AR once to miami and that was enough! why fly AR when you could fly AA to the states, LAPA or southern winds domesticaly, pluna to uraguay, varig to brazil, and LAN to chile?
somebody asked why is AR flying to europe even though they will not be able to compete or make money. My answer to that is because of pride. i dont care what you argentines say, but you guys consider yourselfs a part of europe. hell, buenos aires is just like all the european citys mixed into one! so if a country considers itself european, why shouldnt its national airline fly there?
can we expect to see AR un cancleing their order for A340-600s?
Derico From Argentina, joined Dec 1999, 4233 posts, RR: 13 Reply 19, posted (12 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 877 times:
I stand by my comment BTW. Which is my first negative comment EVER about ARG. So don't come to scape goating on me what other posters say about ARG, which I have seen in the past. But maybe I should explain it better. Rudness towards the people that we don't know, in this case, I admit I was rude towards you all, but now it's also the other way around.
I hate to go SO far off topic, but about our 'rudness'. It's simple statistics. Let me give one example. We have over 1,200 deaths per 1 million automobiles in ARG. The next country after us is under 300. Now, you can blame it on the 'bad' roads (not that bad), on the lousy weather, the old cars, the corrupt polititians... but don't you think so many inocent people killing themselves is because of lack of basic respect for others??? The number is in the stratosphere and there is no excuse for it no matter how you look at it. Another example is eating disorders. Again, we lead the world because we are so insensitive to those that are different and that not everyone can look like a top-model. So 1 of 10 teenage girls goes and starves or sicks herself, even to death. Again, lack of respect.
I apologize if I inadvertantly insulted some of you, and perhaps you are all right, and I'm wrong. But it won't change my mind on this particular issue.
I could tell you 10 million things that are good about Argentina, but then again I have sometimes been called an 'arrogant' argentine around here. It seems you can't win! But I don't think I need to list them, most people know them and many have a complex because of it.
My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
Aero_Lima From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 20, posted (12 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 864 times:
Sorry its true I was on a flight LAX LIM......There was about three kids that were airsick OK KIDS!!!! The FA was sooooo sarcastic everytime the poor kid went to the bathroom with his mom....she ran away from them as they were a plauge!!!!!!!! All she said "Ay este nino tiene que estar en el bano no en el avion" what is that Im sorry last time I flew AR also the seats were all worn OUT what Is that Lan Chile flies every day but their seats dont look like they are sat on 24-7
Tailscraper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 21, posted (12 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 862 times:
Hell, I guess we're all argentines here! (well, I'm half, my father is Irish).
I've got to say that I dont think it's the norm for Argentines to be obnoxious or whatever. My family and friends in Argentina are great. But Latinos are naturally passionate and opiniated people (well, we all have an opinion about AR, right?).
The difference between that, and being rude is fairly clear. A truly rude person doesn't need to be provoked into saying/acting in a nasty way. They just are. My personal opinion of their FA's is based only on two flights though. LHR-EZE return, 9 years ago!
They gave the impression they weren't really interested in what they were doing (the FA's). Perhaps this was due to low pay, poor management, or just them hating their job.
But training can make a difference. BA Cabin Crew also have to take a course in psychology. They learn things like "why should I be nice", "how does a smile affect a another person-does it make the pax. feel safer?" etc. etc. It sounds silly, but it sure makes a difference on the flight.
I guess most most people have just lost faith/patience in AR. These are interesting times though...
PS. I am surprised to hear AR are using their 742's for LHR. I suppose there's a reason. What happened to First Class?
PPS. Emirates have just hired two FA's from Argentina, my Mum has invited them for an Asado tomorrow. One is Juanita, the other Maria-Laura, they will both be on the A330 and 777 (all routes). Juanita starts on Saturday, with a 777 flight to Hong Kong!!!!
Aero_Lima From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 22, posted (12 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 849 times:
Look I am sorry but there is FACT and there is FACT Lan CHile for example....okthey say they are the number ! airline in south america...guess what they are!! not because I say so but because they PROVE it....ok argentinas is getting new planes what ever it is not the plane it is the airline! There have increasing amounts of complaints about RUDE FA I witnessed one.....But no one is just bein prejudious just beacause Argentina!!!!! If I were the flag carrier of argentina I would have a little less pride and work on my skills.....look Aero Peru went out of service not because of Service etc because of Fanacial problems due to a crash.......If argentinas were to get new FA with NEW attitudes and looks they would be bbetter off but its too late!! Look at Lan Chile..they didnt have the best seats in the cabin whatever BUT they had FA that cared AR FA make it an obligation to get a glass of wine whatever but it is a duty that they wanted to do is pay is the factor how stupid of them to stay there!! there are many other airlines
Federico From Belgium, joined May 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (12 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 848 times:
Seems like I struck a nerve....I'm not even gonna bother with this no more...say whatever you want to say...if your gonna throw statistics about car accidents and eating disorders...go ahead...I just come to this forum to talk about aviation and whenever there is a topic about argentina people bash it...and talk as if they were experts. It's sick and boreing...and shows the SO CALLED lack of respect...we are talking about. So...not wasting my time anymore with this topic...
Yes Bacardi182 I have experinced good service with AR...before IB got involved and until 91-92 I never had any major problems.
And yes I guess you can't win. I just would like to see less bashing wether it's argentina, airbus-boeing, or whatever topic.
Lima From Argentina, joined May 1999, 1122 posts, RR: 16 Reply 24, posted (12 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 845 times:
Tailscraper, I partly agree about training but for me it deals more on who you hire to be positioned on a customer service position. The person needs to understand that the passengers seated there are paying for their wages somehow and if they like the service and if its of a good quality they will come back. If not they have a wide choice of airlines serving domestic and international routes.
25 NewWorldFlyer: Aerolineas Argentinas got into trouble also because it lost it's sense of purpose. There was no theme, no 'brand recognition' for costumers to return,
26 AVIA_ARG: Tailscraper wrote: ------------------------------- They gave the impression they weren't really interested in what they were doing (the FA's). Perhaps
27 NewWorldFlyer: That's the perfect example of what I mean by brand recognition. Iberia instead of giving AR a distinct look makes the livery a clone of themselves!!!