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Nursing College: A380 Will Need Full-time Medic  
User currently offlinePlaneHunter From Germany, joined Mar 2006, 6945 posts, RR: 77
Posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 11250 times:

Article on scotsman.com:

http://news.scotsman.com/scitech.cfm?id=450062006


THE next generation of super jumbo jets will need a full-time medic on board, the Royal College of Nurses said today.

Rita Mody, a committee member of the college's In-flight Nurses Association, said the move is needed to make sure people who fall ill can get care immediately.

Ms Mody said the high numbers of passengers that can be carried on Airbus A380s will lead to a "high probability that someone will fall ill".



PH


Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
85 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21590 posts, RR: 59
Reply 1, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 11229 times:

I guess nobody has really scheduled 12 hour flights with 500 pax before, but there are 747 configurations with over 400, so why does the extra <100 make it so critical? 747s occasionally stop to get people help, so do other jets.

Sounds more like a vested interest trying to force airlines into hiring their profession.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineAlaskaqantas From New Zealand, joined Dec 2005, 906 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 11219 times:

why not train certain Flight attendants. I mean they would be on the aircraft doing the job of a flight attendant, but if something happened then they would be qualified to be a medic.
This way the airlines save money. Cause we all know that the planes don't fly with out  dollarsign   dollarsign   dollarsign   dollarsign   dollarsign  !!!!!!!



to some people the sky is the limit, to aviation enthusiasts, its home!
User currently offlineAlexchao From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 688 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 11196 times:

It's an interesting point. Most airports are capable of handling the 747, but will all airports be able to handle the A380?

Then again, we have planes flying across hours of ocean without any problems.


User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8483 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 11196 times:

It is probably a good time to have some one sit down and work the numbers for the various long haul flights. The frequency is one factor, the other is the severity of conditions encountered. EMTs or Nurses might be attractive to the airlines if the stats show risks. The one time I was on a flight with a medical problem the flight (BA's HKG - LHR) returned after 5 hours of flying, had to overnight and put everyone up at the Airport Regal Hotel. Throw in all of the extra costs of that and medical experience on board can be very handy.

The other option is to provide large discounts to EMTs and Nurse (especially ICU nurses) if they agree to be available if needed. Docs would fly free under the same conditions.


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20822 posts, RR: 62
Reply 5, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 11151 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 1):
Sounds more like a vested interest trying to force airlines into hiring their profession.

Or just returning to their roots.

http://www.united.com/page/article/0,6722,3211,00.html



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineAOMlover From Singapore, joined Jul 2001, 1308 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 11151 times:

Corsair sends 747-400s with 590 pax on board for 11+ hours flights to La Réunion island. Corsair 747-300s with more than 580 seats also used to fly from Paris Orly to Tahiti via Oakland. It was a pretty long stretch.

User currently offlineEmiratesA345 From Canada, joined Jun 2003, 2123 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 11019 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 4):
The other option is to provide large discounts to EMTs and Nurse (especially ICU nurses) if they agree to be available if needed. Docs would fly free under the same conditions.

I don't think so. When there is a crisis onboard the crew will generally call out to ask for the assistance of any medically trained professionals.

If I was a doctor and someone was ill on the flight that I had been travelling on, and the cabin was paged for medically trained professionals, I would feel pretty damn shitty about myself for not offering my services.

I'm not certain but I think you can even get in trouble with the law if you fail to provide assistance. I heard from a nurse here in Ontario, Canada that if you see a car crash or someone in need in public and you don't offer your assitance, that decission can cause you trouble.

Mark



You and I were meant to fly, Air Canada!
User currently offlineManni From South Korea, joined Nov 2001, 4221 posts, RR: 22
Reply 8, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 11014 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 1):
Sounds more like a vested interest trying to force airlines into hiring their profession.

 yes 

Once I was travelling together with my wife on an SQ flight from CDG to SIN. A few hours inflight she felt really ill. I called a flight attendant, who wasn't able to help nor any of her collegeaus. She then made a general call over the PA system, asking if anyone onboard has a medical education. Minutes later, a french docter showed up together with the flightattendant. The doctor asked the flight attendant to get the medical equipment available onboard, and helped my wife.


If you're travelling onboard an A380 mathematically the risk of being encountered with a passenger getting ill is higher, put in similar fashion, chances that a doctor, medic, nurse will be onboard will be higher aswell. If the flightattendant asks for assistance over the PA, I can't imagine that someone who'd qualify to provide assistance would not make her/himself known. And a compensation scheme shouldn't be obligatory...



SUPPORT THE LEBANESE CIVILIANS
User currently offlineGkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24964 posts, RR: 56
Reply 9, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 11000 times:

Quoting Manni (Reply 8):
If you're travelling onboard an A380 mathematically the risk of being encountered with a passenger getting ill is higher, put in similar fashion, chances that a doctor, medic, nurse will be onboard will be higher aswell. If the flightattendant asks for assistance over the PA, I can't imagine that someone who'd qualify to provide assistance would not make her/himself known. And a compensation scheme shouldn't be obligatory...

Aye, the chances are quite good that there is a Doctor onboard anyway



When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineILOVEA340 From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 2100 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 10990 times:

Quoting Manni (Reply 8):
that a doctor, medic, nurse will be onboard will be higher aswell.

I completely agree. There is a MUCH higher likelyhood that there is a doctor (and many at that) on the plane than someone falling so incredibly ill that only immediate attention will save them.

In fact. I bet you can fin a doctor or at least trained professional for virtually every possible problem out of a group of 500 (relatively well educated, as this is the group doing the most flying in A380 countries) people.


User currently offlineGBan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 10990 times:

Quoting Manni (Reply 8):
If you're travelling onboard an A380 mathematically the risk of being encountered with a passenger getting ill is higher, put in similar fashion, chances that a doctor, medic, nurse will be onboard will be higher aswell. If the flightattendant asks for assistance over the PA, I can't imagine that someone who'd qualify to provide assistance would not make her/himself known. And a compensation scheme shouldn't be obligatory...

That's exactly the point. Statistically there is no difference from the perspective of the airline. As a passenger I should feel more comfortable in a 380 since my chance of having a doctor on board if I'm in trouble are higher with more people on board.


User currently offlineCha747 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 788 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 10869 times:

It may be nice to have a nurse or doctor on board, but in reality, there is not much they can do without having a hospital around that a properly trained FA can't do. The new AED's (automatic external defibrillators) "speak" the instructions for advanced cardiac life support and at 35000 feet, there's very little you can do in addition to that. They tell you to connect the electrodes, they analyze the rhythm, they advise shock, tell you when to check for a pulse, and tell you to continue CPR. That's about all I as an Emergency Physician could ask anybody to do and now we put machines on planes that do a great deal of the thinking for you.

Many times physicians on board don't do much, but they provide re-assurance and can make some simple suggestions that alleviate the pt's pain and/or anxiety.

Sure, there have been anecdotal cases of chest decompressions and airway management with the tube of an ink pen, but nurses and basic EMT's won't be doing that kind of stuff on a regular basis (many general doctors and specialists [read: non ER doctors]) would crap their pants if they had to do emergent airway or cardiac management at 35000 feet with minimal equipment.



You land a million planes safely, then you have one little mid-air and you never hear the end of it - Pushing Tin
User currently offlineMadairdrie From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2006, 119 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 10848 times:

A number of years ago late 90's I was flying Laker (silly me) from LGW to Florida (the whole flight was another very long story) anyway we had to make a fuel stop after the fuel stop a passenger collapsed (which later I discovered was dehydration) and the Flight Crew made an appeal for anyone with medical knowledge to come forward we ended up with 3 doctors and 6 nurses, who looked after the man very well until the FA decided they needed the Medical teams credentials - which ended up causing all sorts of problems. As did the Paramedics when we landed who would not accepts a British Doctors summing up of the events and they got very annoyed when a British Nurse injected the patient with what he needed, then finally to take the biscuit they would not let him go to hospital as he had not filled out his landing and immigrations cards!

My point in reference to this is to agree with everyone above that the more passengers you have the more chance you have of having a medic on board, and so I am unsure if there is a real need to have a specific nurse on board.

However if the Royal College of Nurses want to try and work out some facts and figures that might suggest to the airlines that it will be worthwhile as they wont be making as many diversions then I am sure they will take this on board. You could end up with a high qualified nurse on board with various things that handle the common medical requirements onboard and then if someone does take ill they will be able to get to their destination which keeps their fellow passengers happy and also might be even more beneficial for the ill person as well as there is more chance they will have family or at least some form of arrangements for their destination rather than end up at a diversion point that is unknown to them. Basically I think it is up to the Royal College of Nurses to prove the need and if they do I am sure the Airlines will take it on board.

Kenneth


User currently offlineMarkHKG From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 960 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 10758 times:

I am curious to what the article means to as "medic"...

In the United States, "medic" usually refers to a paramedic or flight nurse that are able to utilize and interpret EKGs, start IV or IO lines, administer advanced medications, defibrillate manually, intubate (put tube in throat)...some states even allow paramedics to administer thrombolytics to dissolve clots in heart attacks.

But in the EU, the term "medic" is sometimes used to discuss a wider array of healthcare professionals from a GP doctor to an Accident and Emergency Nurse.

The difference between a doctor and paramedic are actually quite far apart, so I am curious to what the In-flight Nurses Association is actually suggesting?

I have looked through some of the medical training flight attendants do, and rather sadly, it is rather lacking. Someone taking a 5-day advanced first aid course will probably cover the same material. (However, some F/As have the additional training with how to use medical direction programs like MedAire which boosts their capacity as emergency responders!)

Additionally, you can never be certain that healthcare professionals will volunteer on the flight. I know of quite a few HCPs who refuse to participate because of liability concerns, founded or unfounded...



Release your seat-belts and get out! Leave everything!
User currently offlineTjc2 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 141 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 10683 times:

Quoting AOMlover (Reply 6):
Corsair sends 747-400s with 590 pax on board for 11+ hours flights to La Réunion island. Corsair 747-300s with more than 580 seats also used to fly from Paris Orly to Tahiti via Oakland. It was a pretty long stretch.

Isn't a 747 with 590 pax on board filled to capacity in Economy? So If an A380 is fitted entirely Economy then isn't it around 800 pax?

Hiring a Nurse just to be a nurse on a flight is a good idea. However, what I think people should take into consideration is the fact that for the many cases, flights go over thousand miles of ocean with ~400 pax many times a day, everyday. The large majority of these flights are completed with out medical incident. When there is such an incident the chances are high that there is a medically qualified person on board who can assist.

What I'm trying to say is that although Air safety records are quite high in today's world, could it be a risk to have a highly qualified nurse on board who for most of time is not being put to the best of use, when he/she could be practising his/her profession in an area where they are more likely to get more frequent opportunities? Then of course, if you have ~150 A380 (with hopefully more to come in the future) flying around the skies, that is ~150 nurses who could be doing better things with most of this time?

I think training FA's would be better use of time and money...

just my  twocents 
Coops



The only time I made a mistake was when I thought I was wrong...
User currently offlineAMSSpotter From Netherlands, joined Feb 2005, 271 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 10662 times:

Quoting PlaneHunter (Thread starter):
Ms Mody said the high numbers of passengers that can be carried on Airbus A380s will lead to a "high probability that someone will fall ill".

There seems to be this human tendency, some sort of conservatism I guess (no pun intended), to draw a certain, imaginery, line and everything that crosses that line (usually in terms of size) is considered a reason to significantly change current regulations.
In this case, the line is the B747 and through the years, we've become used to and grown comfortable with it's dimensions and the number of passengers it can carry. Now that something even bigger (in terms of passenger-potential) is on the horizon, some people almost seem to "freak out" just because of that. The line they've drawn has been crossed and this almost seems to mean "total psychological chaos" to them. What they don't realize is that, in case of the A380:
the newcomer still fits in the 80x80 meter box,
that not every 747 carries the same amount of seats and
that the debute version of the A380 will not carry that many more passengers than the current 747's.
I guess people equally "freaked out" when Boeing introduced it's Queen of the Skies since in those days, they were used to the B707.

Besides "freaking out", a lot of people have all kinds of hidden agenda's that make it very convenient to freak out (as was mentioned earlier in this thread).  Wink


User currently offlineBoeingguy1 From Ireland, joined Jan 2006, 415 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 10584 times:

Quoting Tjc2 (Reply 15):
Isn't a 747 with 590 pax on board filled to capacity in Economy? So If an A380 is fitted entirely Economy then isn't it around 800 pax?

...Just dont let Corsair get a hold of one of these things... because you would see it!



Gatwick South! Id rather crash in Brighton!
User currently offlineTGV From France, joined Dec 2004, 874 posts, RR: 20
Reply 18, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 10539 times:

As mentioned above the chance of having a doctor (or a nurse) on-board goes up with the number of passengers on the flight.
On all my travels I have been on 4 flights during which the call for a doctor was made. In each and every case there was, at least, one doctor. In one case I was seated just behind the person with a chest pain, and they even had to select the more appropriate doctor, as they were 3 on-board (and it was an A340 with around 250 passengers).

I spoke once with an AF FA who told me that they usually had not any problem to find a doctor. The flights to/from the US being the most problematic due to the fear of some doctors to be sued after their intervention !



Avoid 777 with 3-4-3 config in Y ! They are real sardine cans. (AF/KL for example)
User currently onlineMEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4360 posts, RR: 35
Reply 19, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 10297 times:

Still I think airlines should offer some compensation for doctors who help out.
I heared about a doctor on board a BA flight who planned to sleep during the flight, lost 8 hours of rest due to assisting a sick passenger, and was so tired he had to cancel a day of paying patients after arrival. But he didn't even receive a thank you card or flowers from the airline, let alone payment or travel/upgrade credits! BA came with the excuse they didn't want people just cash in on passengers mysery.
I can understand if a doctor doesn't identify himself next time, for him it's a job.



nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
User currently offlineMarkHKG From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 960 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 10254 times:

Perhaps you should read this story about another doctor and see if your feelings about compensation don't change just a little...  Sad


BMJ 1998;317:701 ( 12 September )
News


Doctor demands payment for helping airline passenger

Clare Dyer, legal correspondent, BMJ

A doctor who answered an emergency call on a transatlantic flight will break new legal ground next month when he goes to court in a bid to force the airline to pay for his services.

John Stevens, a consultant psychiatrist and psychotherapist, was returning with his family from a holiday in California in January 1997 when the call for a doctor went out over the American Airlines jet's public address system.

Dr Stevens, who divides his time between Springfield Hospital in south London and Surrey Oaklands Hospital in Redhill, said that he was initially reluctant to respond to the call, which came just 20 minutes into the flight. "I sat on my hands because I felt the best doctor would be one who deals with emergency medicine all the time. Then I heard a kerfuffle a few rows behind, so I couldn't ignore it. The second call went out, and I felt impelled to act."

He said that the passenger, a former nurse from the Republic of Ireland, "looked grim [and] had chest pains and breathlessness." She had a history of repeated leg thromboses and had been taking anticoagulants, but the treatment had been stopped.

Dr Stevens believed she had had a pulmonary embolism as she was boarding the aircraft. She was given oxygen and initially rallied, but when she had a further attack, he advised an emergency landing for hospital treatment in Chicago, rather than risk a long flight over the north Atlantic, where landing would have been impossible.

At the end of the flight, Dr Stevens was presented with a bottle of "cheap champagne" by the crew, and he said that a $50 (�30) travel voucher, excluding all the main holiday periods, arrived a month later. The airline says that the voucher was for $250, but Dr Stevens, who took a photocopy before returning it to the company's solicitor, insists it was for only $50.

In the meantime, he sent the airline a bill for �540, charging for four and a half hours of his time at �120 an hour. The airline refused to pay, claiming that it was not company policy, so Dr Stevens, with advice from legal friends, brought a small claims action in Central London County Court.

The airline tried to have the claim struck out, but a judge ruled that it could go ahead. The hearing is set for 7 October. Under the small claims rules, Dr Stevens will not be liable for the airline's costs if he loses.

A spokeswoman for American Airlines said: "We have a strict company policy that we don't pay doctors in circumstances such as this. Our position is that it's a matter between the doctor and the patient, and the fact that treatment was on our aircraft is incidental."

But Dr Stevens points out that his services were sought by the crew rather than the patient, who told him she was not consulted before the call for a doctor was broadcast. He says that had anything gone wrong, he could have faced a large malpractice claim for which he had since learned he would not have been covered.

The BMA, which wants to clarify the position of doctors who give in-flight help, has had informal discussions with several airlines and hopes to raise the issue with an international aviation advisory body, a spokeswoman said.



Release your seat-belts and get out! Leave everything!
User currently offlineBoomBoom From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 10166 times:

Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 19):
BA came with the excuse they didn't want people just cash in on passengers mysery.

Funny, considering airlines have been cashing in on passengers misery for years...


User currently offlineB6JFKH81 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2902 posts, RR: 7
Reply 22, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 10114 times:

Quoting Alexchao (Reply 3):
It's an interesting point. Most airports are capable of handling the 747, but will all airports be able to handle the A380?

Then again, we have planes flying across hours of ocean without any problems.

This is an interesting point Alexchao. This may be why they have to do this. If there is a Medical Emergency onboard, how many airports can the A380 divert to at this point in time? JFK isn't even finished prepping for it.



"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
User currently offlineA319114 From Netherlands, joined Aug 2004, 541 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 9683 times:

Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 22):

This is an interesting point Alexchao. This may be why they have to do this. If there is a Medical Emergency onboard, how many airports can the A380 divert to at this point in time? JFK isn't even finished prepping for it.

*sigh* The a380 can land at EVERY airport which can support a 747, it just will have a hard time taxiing here and there.



Destruction leads to a very rough road but it also breeds creation
User currently offlineCRJ900 From Norway, joined Jun 2004, 2234 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 9617 times:
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Quoting Cha747 (Reply 12):
Sure, there have been anecdotal cases of chest decompressions and airway management with the tube of an ink pen, but nurses and basic EMT's won't be doing that kind of stuff on a regular basis (many general doctors and specialists [read: non ER doctors]) would crap their pants if they had to do emergent airway or cardiac management at 35000 feet with minimal equipment.

Exactly. I am studying to become a nurse and work in a hospital. We have had several discussions in class about what to do if people need help on a plane, train or bus etc... many lecturers (MDs and nurses) said that they avoided saying they were health care pros, as they hadn't been in contact with ER situations for years. Many MDs and senior nurses do office work only. Me, working at the gastro surgery division, would be hesitant if someone has a heart attack, because I haven't dealt with any patients that have had one and would be unsure of what to do...

Quoting MarkHKG (Reply 14):
Additionally, you can never be certain that healthcare professionals will volunteer on the flight. I know of quite a few HCPs who refuse to participate because of liability concerns, founded or unfounded...

I think we'll se more of this. We hear so many horror stories from the US where patients scream "I'll sue your ass off if I don't get well again!" and it's coming to the rest of the world too... HCPs are simply scared of helping, as it may cost them their career (and everything else that matter)...

I support ER-experienced crew onboard, if there are to be any HCPs employed.



Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
25 Post contains images RichM : I think the logical answer would be to make F/A's do first aid training, training specifically designed for offering in-flight first aid. Perhaps they
26 SCEagle : Offer incentive pay to FA's who qualify for medical certification. Simple.
27 BoomBoom : A very expensive proposition...
28 Post contains images Lightsaber : But maybe this will be a return to the days when F/A's were certified nurses. Naa... Won't happen. By US law, a doctor (or anyone) performing "good i
29 PA201 : Putting medical professionals on-board long haul flights doesn't seem a practical use of thier skills nor the airlines money. Think about it - what co
30 Post contains images ChiGB1973 : It is probably fear of not knowing what to do. As Cha747 said, most doctors (no ER's docs ) would crap themselves if something serious were to arise
31 PositiveETCO2 : I am an anesthesiologist. I often wonder what exactly is onboard as far as emergency drugs, IV and airway equipment. The Defib. is great, but what els
32 Post contains links and images MarkHKG : PositiveETCO2 (are you a colormetric or digital capnometer? Well regardless I've sure you verify that you got into the trachea... ) Emergency Medical
33 Mudboy : Although I have no idea what is currently carried on airliners in the form of an Emergency Medical Kit, given the right advanced medical training of
34 GeorgiaAME : Um, yes, but... My first in flight call, and I have had several, was above the Atlantic on a packed Swissair 747. 4 others responded, 2 psychiatrists
35 PositiveETCO2 : Digital of couse! EBBS (equal bilateral breath sounds) Thanks for the interesting list of equip/meds. I'd like even more. BTW I always tell my wife h
36 Ikramerica : Best point made. Not just 150 nurses, try 1200 at least. One would assume that 1 plane would need at least 8 nurses available to have 1 able to cover
37 CcrlR : mabye SQ could try it out with their A340-500's and see if it works and they could be able to use it on the A380 once they start using it. How long h
38 ChiGB1973 : The one I saw had endotracheal intubation equipment. Meds have expiration dates. Most of the stuff never gets used, except for the occasional band-aid
39 Post contains links Pmg1704 : I think you are wrong. Considering the extreme shortage of nurses, they don't need more places to find extra vacancies. See: Nursing shortage fact sh
40 Post contains images Okelleynyc : Here's my two cents worth..... I get approached all of the time on international flights whenever a passenger gets sick, but unfortunately for them, I
41 AirTranTUS : I think the A345 and 772LR qualify for this more than an A380. 747's have never needed an onboard medic. The A380 can't fly that much farther so IMO i
42 LTBEWR : Many workplaces in the USA are now required to have some people trained in first aid, including CPR training. To me at least one f/a with such trainin
43 Post contains images Redngold : I haven't read any of the other responses, but here's my take on it: The A380 was originally envisioned as an airliner that could provide luxury servi
44 VV701 : Otherwise why would a professional body,whose raison d'etre is to promote the profession, even think of such a thing? When I was young I knew a young
45 Mudboy : I would like to make something clear to those out there that are misinformed about nurses. NURSES ARE NOT TRAINED TO WORK IN SITUATIONS LIKE THIS!! B
46 Madairdrie : Just a little question that I have just thought of from reading the above - maybe I should start another thread but if someone Can answer it here then
47 Aa757first : If you don't know basic First Aid for a heart attack, you should not be a nurse. Already done. A doctor? No way, that would be too expensive. A nurse
48 Manni : Any airport that can take the 747 should be able to take the A380, atleast as far as landing and take off goes, aswell as tarmac strenght. When an air
49 Centrair : My father is a doctor (specialist) and my mother is a nurse (now teaching). My father even though he is 66 years old, responds to what his hospital te
50 Ikramerica : They can land just like everyone else. Just because they fly longer doesn't mean they fly further from land than other planes. Anywhere a 345 can go
51 GeorgiaAME : You assume that cardiac arrest is the only life threatening situation on board. While they happen, they are the exceptions, and in 20+ years of minis
52 Post contains images MarkHKG : Hrm...I think the EEMK have epi-pens (for adults) but both the EEMK and EMK carry one ml 1:1000 adrenalin in 1ml/1mg which can be used as an IM injec
53 Post contains images Mudboy : You get in front of the patient and face them, invert the Laryngoscope and insert it into the patients mouth using your right hand instead of left an
54 Redngold : Then you said... Flight nurses are trained in acute management (think medical evacuation services.) Nurse practitioners may be trained in acute manag
55 Post contains images MarkHKG : Mudboy, you are such a pre-hospital medicine stud. After you do that procedure, I hope you get indecent proposals of marriage.
56 Post contains images Thegooddoctor : I'd agree with this - but I'm pretty sure Great Britain is about as short-staffed on nurses as we are - and that's pretty damned short... At this poi
57 ChiGB1973 : It's the same thing, just mixed differently. 1:1,000 sub-Q, 1:10,000 IV. If the patient is that bad, there is nothing wrong with giving IV 1:10,000 e
58 Post contains images Mudboy : I do not dispute that in any way. Several friends of mine from nursing school have pursued acute care jobs and are good at what they do. My point was
59 ChiGB1973 : I started working a rural Alabama, where transport times could have been up to 45 minutes. This was once we left the scene. I also had many transfers
60 Post contains images MarkHKG : Actually, Mudboy, I was trying to say that if I saw you do that intubation I would offer my fictious daughter or pretend sister to marry you. I mean,
61 Post contains images Mudboy : This is the exact uneducated rhetoric that I have been talking about this entire post!
62 ChiGB1973 : You beat me to it. This is very true. It was explained to me like this, paramedics are taught a whole lot about very little and nurses are taught a v
63 Post contains images Mudboy : [quote=ChiGB1973,reply=62]This is very true. It was explained to me like this, paramedics are taught a whole lot about very little and nurses are taug
64 YULWinterSkies : Aren't flight attendants trained for emergency medical situations anyway? Well, that report seems to be one more anti A380 bullsh1t... That would be a
65 MD11Engineer : Most German airlines carry a standard first aid kit to be used by a flight attendant (plus often also an automatic ECG /defibrillator with the fight
66 Thegooddoctor : Hmmm... I wouldn't call my rhetoric uneducated - but it does come from a different point of view than yours does. I've actually spent years in all th
67 Mudboy : Being that I hold both flight nurse and a flight paramedic certifications, I can clearly say, a critical care certified flight paramedic would be the
68 Aa757first : Obviously a specially trained RN is the best person to stick on an A380, or any airplane for that matter. Perferably, she would have earned her BSN,
69 Thegooddoctor : Finally, someone with some sense!
70 ChiGB1973 : An MSN can go all the way through school without working in a acute care setting. There will be clinicals and maybe programs require a bit of experie
71 PositiveETCO2 : I have sat in ACLS watching an ED resident teach attending anesthesiologists how to intubate. Its the nature of the course. The teacher is not necess
72 Ikramerica : Shouldn't be flying to begin with. I know it's PC to let everyone with every disease do anything, but honestly, why was this person employed in a job
73 ChiGB1973 : I just came from a place that paramedics make a difference every day and are not taken for granted. I shouldn't even say that, they are taken for gra
74 Aa757first : The RN on the plane would, of course, have ICU/ER/flight nurse experience. RNs, especially those with a BSN or better, don't perform at a technican l
75 GeorgiaAME : Be scared. Be VERY scared. That is called experience. If I had to, I would dump the epi down an airway, but that 1000 dilution factor makes a hell of
76 Cha747 : @ ChiGB1973 - rural Alabama...just curious, was Erlanger in Chattanooga the tertiary care facility you went to? They get a lot of northeastern Alabama
77 PositiveETCO2 : Roger that, GeorgiaAME. I remember my attending telling me that the first thing I should do when called to a Code Blue is take my own pulse. Cheers
78 Post contains images Cha747 : @ Positive ETCO2 - hey now...one of you got that from The House of God. @ GeorgiaAME - what is your specialty? What is the best way to become an AME?
79 Post contains images PositiveETCO2 : I hate to admit I never read the book. Lots of my classmates did, but I figured I could get jaded all by myself. Now I know where he got the quote. T
80 ChiGB1973 : I was in SW Alabama, so generally MOB, MGM or PNS. All three were about equal distance from MVC. On occasion, BHM and once I went to DHN. I have a fr
81 Post contains images Thegooddoctor : Actually not true in all places - in order to continue to an MSN, in AZ at least, you must have the equivalent of something like a year or two in the
82 GLAGAZ : Both GLA and PIK can handle 747's. PIK is the more obvious as its a big cargo operation, but GLA has 2 outbound 747 departures a week to SFB in the S
83 Post contains images Alaskaqantas : I understand that. The only problem is that an airline that is tight on money, or any airline for that matter, wouldn't want to pay a nurse/doctor to
84 Thegooddoctor : Yes, Sh#& does happen when you least expect it... However, I guess I'm of the oppinion that if you're going to employ someone as a healthcare provide
85 Post contains images TheSorcerer : Yeah, every Doctor is expecting a medical emergency when they're travelling on a plane. Dominic
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