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Pan Am In Cleveland  
User currently offlineJetpixx From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 870 posts, RR: 2
Posted (8 years 9 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3241 times:

Besides JFK - what cities did PA serve? IIRC, they had continuing flights to CVG and IND. Was this always 727 service? Or did they use any other type of aircraft?

Also, I remember DL had L-1011 service from CLE-DTW-LGW briefly...was this a carryover from when DL took over PA's European routes - and did PA ever have CLE-DTW-London service, perhaps on the 310?

I have several old PA timetables, but just shows JFK and CVG service...

On a side note - remember when a lady went crazy on a PA 727 and this was a national news story? Any additional details on this is helpful, too...(edited to include -- ) I found out it was PA588 from CLE-JFK - a hijacker demanded to be taken to South America. The plane was stormed and the standoff ended without injuries. The aircraft was the one below....N4746


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[Edited 2006-03-23 12:27:00]

14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineMats From Israel, joined Jul 2003, 637 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (8 years 9 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3217 times:

Delta actually flew CLE-DTW-LGW with an A310. Pan Am didn't serve that route.

Pan Am did, however, fly from Cleveland to Miami with a 727.

Their ground operations in Cleveland were handled by American Airlines.


User currently offlineBernard Shakey From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 560 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (8 years 9 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3177 times:

Toward the end, Pan Am briefly served CLE-JFK with a 737-200 (after they were brought back over from Germany). As mentioned, the DTW/LGW service was with A310 equipment. The standoff did not end without injury as a USAir agent was shot and needed treatment at Southwest General Hospital where she was treated and released.


Mindless drifter on the road, Carries such an easy load
User currently offlineJoeman From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 786 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 9 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3148 times:

Quoting Mats (Reply 1):
Delta actually flew CLE-DTW-LGW with an A310. Pan Am didn't serve that route.

I believe Pan Am actually began this route with the A310. Mayor White at the time made much publicity of the new service. The route and A310 equipment was sold to Delta during the demise of Pan Am.


User currently offlineKkfla737 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1033 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (8 years 9 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3148 times:

Quoting Mats (Reply 1):
Pan Am did, however, fly from Cleveland to Miami with a 727.

Yes the route was added towards the end starting in 1990 IRC. Cleveland was one of the few major US cities served by PA that never saw Miami nonstop service during the 1980s.


User currently offlineChrisjake From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 879 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (8 years 9 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3100 times:

that JFK - CLE service also continued on to MSP at one point along with CVG and IND. i want to think it continued on to MCI at one point also, but i may be wrong on this. it seemed that the continuation city would change every now and then.

Quoting Jetpixx (Thread starter):
On a side note - remember when a lady went crazy on a PA 727 and this was a national news story? Any additional details on this is helpful, too...(edited to include -- ) I found out it was PA588 from CLE-JFK - a hijacker demanded to be taken to South America. The plane was stormed and the standoff ended without injuries.

this happened on Jan 4 1985. its been awhile, but i thought i recalled the female hijacker was shot in the shoulder when the plane was stormed. just a typo correction, the flight was PA558.

chris



Well nothing's dead down here, just a little tired
User currently offlineTOLtommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3308 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (8 years 9 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2991 times:

Quoting Joeman (Reply 3):
I believe Pan Am actually began this route with the A310. Mayor White at the time made much publicity of the new service. The route and A310 equipment was sold to Delta during the demise of Pan Am.

Correct. I flew over on the 310 after DL took over the route, it was a PanAm aircraft, not one of the newer ones they eventually replaced the PA equipment with. But I do believe the DL L1011 did fly the route at one point.

NW was nasty about it. They thought the route should have been theirs. They would station an agent with a counter right at the gate. You could hear it clicking as you boarded. DL eventually sold the route authority to NW.


User currently offlineIsitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 23
Reply 7, posted (8 years 9 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2986 times:

The "REAL PAN AM" never served CLE. They did fly DTW-London, sometimes with a stop at BOS. The DTW trip continued to MSP with a NW crew but the plane in PAN AM colors....I flew it in 69, MSP-DTW. It was flight 54 eastbound and flight 55 westbound.
The REAL PAN AM was prior to the merger with National..it all started downhill afterward. PAN AM NEVER turned an annual profit after 1980.
safe  dollarsign 



If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
User currently offlineINTENSS From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 317 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (8 years 9 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2904 times:

Quoting Isitsafenow (Reply 7):
The REAL PAN AM was prior to the merger with National..

Some would argue it was long before that. But semantics aside, the original ended in 12/91....so let's not confuse everyone around here.  Wink


-Rich


User currently offlineIsitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 23
Reply 9, posted (8 years 9 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2871 times:

Yep...that is the correct day of demize. I was preached to that the REAL PAN AM ended when they bought National and they should have merged with TWA and the USA would have one powerhouse of experiance in world travel. After de-reg, we saw the other carriers get into service to Europe and dabble in the orient(except NW who have been there since 1948) and South America.
They were rookies at large scale international travel. Pan AM and TW wrote the book at it as far as the USA was concerned.
 yes 
safe



If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
User currently offlineBOAC911 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 454 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 9 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2825 times:
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Actually Pan Am inaugurated JFK-CLE service with a 727-100 in December 1983. It was upgraded to a 727-200 fairly quickly, and sometimes the flight continued on to either Cincinnati, Indianapolis, or to Miami (under a different flight number).
In the late 80s Pan Am had up to a total of three daily departures to JFK, and one to either IND, CVG, or MIA. Starting in 1987 the route was briefly served by its 737s. CLE-DTW-LGW was served only very briefly, and was subsequently dropped by Delta.

CLE was primarily added to incresase feeder service for its transatlantic/caribbean departures out of JFK. Other US destinations for this purpose included MSP, PIT, BNA, etc. THe CLE-JFK service was in direct competition to its archrival TWA.


User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 9 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2794 times:

Quoting Jetpixx (Thread starter):
Also, I remember DL had L-1011 service from CLE-DTW-LGW briefly...

It was an A310, not L-1011.

Quoting Mats (Reply 1):
Delta actually flew CLE-DTW-LGW with an A310. Pan Am didn't serve that route.

PA flew the route first, and after they tanked, DL took it over, and ran it for a brief time, but not very long.


User currently onlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5222 posts, RR: 21
Reply 12, posted (8 years 9 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2763 times:

Quoting Isitsafenow (Reply 9):


PAN AM ended when they bought National and they should have merged with TWA and the USA would have one powerhouse of experiance in world travel.

They still would have been a 1 domestic-hub carrier...though thought of STL being the domestic lynchpin feeding JFK/MIA/LAX/SFO IS intriguing, considering the state of STL today.



The best IFE: A window seat and a good book.
User currently offlineDc863 From Denmark, joined Jun 1999, 1558 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (8 years 9 months 23 hours ago) and read 2685 times:

I flew CLE-JFK on PA several times in 'June '83, June '84, June '85, 87, 88. They had one small check-in desk very close to where the AA desks are now. My June '83 flight was delayed several hours owing to a mx problem. The flight was flown on a 727-21 that had Northeastern tail and fuselage markings. The cheatline was PA blue and the interior was all Y class with PA furnishings.

User currently offlineJetpixx From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 870 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (8 years 9 months 23 hours ago) and read 2685 times:

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 11):
Quoting Jetpixx (Thread starter):
Also, I remember DL had L-1011 service from CLE-DTW-LGW briefly...

It was an A310, not L-1011.

I've seen the L-1011 at Concourse B - including all of the London posters inside the terminal. However, just curious when it ended...I know it was short-lived and understand they had the 310 service, too, for a few months.


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