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BA Club World - If You Are Lucky  
User currently offlineTLVFred From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 156 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6018 times:

We booked a family of 5 LHR-TLV in J class for June 05. All great until we learn a few days before that Club wasnt Club on our flught as they were using the Shorthaul config 767 with only 32in seat pitch and no beds. Having spent £6k we changed to LY and moved our BA flights to Feb 06.

Upon arriving in TLV, for the return leg guess what! Shorthaul Plane. £6k on what is basically an Economy seat. No PTV, No 6ft beds, we would have paid £1k and sat in Y like everyone else. In fact the cabin was full of Y people. Compensation? £100.

Anyone any ideas? BA keep doing this on TLV, downgrading Club World passengers by changing planes and giving them £100. This has got to stop. What can we do to get our money back?

19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineIFEMaster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5936 times:

I don't think there is much you can do. BA have the right to substitute aircraft and product as part of the contract of carriage. However, keep pestering them. You might get lucky. My sister did...

She was due to fly in BA's Club World about two years ago...I forget the route...but essentially her aircraft got swapped from a 747 to a 767 with an inferior cabin product on both the outbound and inbound legs of the journey.

When she get back, she complained and got the stock £100 compensation. But then she kept complaing and kept complaing and kept complaining. She got my step-mum involved who is a litigation lawyer to write a letter. Long story short was that after annoying the heck out of BA for quite a while, they refunded the difference between what she paid, and the average price paid for a Y ticket on her flight.


User currently offlineRaffik From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 1718 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 5841 times:

£100 is not enough, considering the lack of amenities on offer, and the outrageous leg room!! Keep bothering them!


Happy -go- lucky kinda guy!
User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8171 posts, RR: 54
Reply 3, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5775 times:

I would go nuts if that happened to me. Btw I thought all J class tickets were refundable, why not cancel your J class tickets on the spot and buy new ones in Y class, maybe for the following day if the Y class ticket on the day is stupidly expensive. Absolutely outrageous though, if I paid £6k to go on a four hour flight and got an economy seat, I would literally self combust on the spot. I thought BA were above such behaviour.


fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineJouy31 From France, joined May 2003, 447 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5717 times:

Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 3):
Btw I thought all J class tickets were refundable,

J class tickets are refundable. But there are also restricted fares for the J cabin, which are not refundable, such as I class fares. The current fully flexible J fare for LHR-TLV is about 1,655 GBP, so unless I am mistaken, 1K GBP is not a fully flexible fare.


User currently offlineFbgdavidson From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 3713 posts, RR: 28
Reply 5, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5676 times:

Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 3):
Btw I thought all J class tickets were refundable, why not cancel your J class tickets on the spot and buy new ones in Y class, maybe for the following day if the Y class ticket on the day is stupidly expensive.

Well depends if the OP means J fare class or Club World/Club Europe. If it is Club World/Club Europe then it is not necessarily refundable. You can buy discounted non-changeable tickets in CW/CE too. They book into I Class.

I have to say BA seem to be messing with the TLV route and it is causing a lot of problems. On the BA website it says TLV earns 120 tier points each way suggesting it is a longhaul and therefore Club World route:


I ran a booking quote through for TLV and it came up with the following which is an interesting observation. It suggests I can upgrade to First, so therefore infers a longhaul config. The hyperlinks you can see also load up a 'Club World' flash demo  thumbsdown 
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v42/fbgdavidson/TLVscrenshot.jpg

But then I ran a booking through for CPT to compare and it does specifically mention a 6ft flatbed as part of the package.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v42/fbgdavidson/CPTbooking.jpg

This is compared to the following for LHR-CDG where the relevant hyperlinks do click through to a Club Europe flash demo
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v42/fbgdavidson/CDGbooking.jpg

BA are only confusing people with these mixed messages. Heck I'm pretty au fait with BA's route network and I wouldn't know what to expect!  Sad

I think a lot depends on what you were shown on the screen at the time of booking. If it said 6ft flatbed and you bought it, then a CE configured 767 turns up you have a case. If it said Club Europe then a CE configured 767 turns up you are being greedy  Wink The kicker is of course who takes a screenshot of the booking quote?  Sad

Here is an interesting thread on Flyertalk on compensation on the TLV route.

My view is it is shabby on the part of BA to alternate between two wildly different configs  thumbsdown  and if in your shoes I'd push for some semi-decent compensation. Trying to get a resolution based on the high price alone may not work as LHR-DME runs in a CE config for the best part of £1700 return  Sad

Good luck!



"My first job was selling doors, door to door, that's a tough job innit" - Bill Bailey
User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9670 posts, RR: 31
Reply 6, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5457 times:

I just again paid about € 850 return FRA/LHR this week, one of the flights was in a 763, and that is a little over one hour. Do you really need the Club World flat bed on a 4-5hour flight? I mean, the European config of the 763 gives you enough space to endure this short flight. Many European carriers operate their standard equipment on this route, LX has a comfy 343 on the day flight and a not so comfy 320 on the night flight.

The only exception, besides LY, is LH which operates 744/330 on all lfights with the long hauls biz class seats.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineRedChili From Norway, joined Jul 2005, 2302 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5434 times:

Quoting TLVFred (Thread starter):
Upon arriving in TLV, for the return leg guess what! Shorthaul Plane. £6k on what is basically an Economy seat.

This is really horrible, and I can understand that you're not so happy with BA.

Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 3):
Btw I thought all J class tickets were refundable, why not cancel your J class tickets on the spot and buy new ones in Y class,

The fare may be refundable, but not if you have already used a part of what you're paying for. If you have already enjoyed the shorter lines of Club check-in, and if you have already enjoyed the lounge, and you find out about the inferior product when boarding the airplane, it's not much you can do.

Quoting Fbgdavidson (Reply 5):
I think a lot depends on what you were shown on the screen at the time of booking.

The bookings screens you're showing clearly state:

"Whilst British Airways will make every reasonable effort to prodive you with the products listed above, for operational reasons, we may not be able to provide all of them."

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 6):
Do you really need the Club World flat bed on a 4-5hour flight?

If it's the day flight, it may not be so important. But if it's a night flight leaving LHR at 22:00 and arriving in TLV at 05:00, then a flat bed is far better than a regular seat.



Top 10 airplanes: B737, T154, B747, IL96, T134, IL62, A320, MD80, B757, DC10
User currently offlineFbgdavidson From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 3713 posts, RR: 28
Reply 8, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5197 times:

Quoting RedChili (Reply 7):
If you have already enjoyed the shorter lines of Club check-in, and if you have already enjoyed the lounge, and you find out about the inferior product when boarding the airplane, it's not much you can do.

No reason why you can't cancel the ticket whilst in the lounge. I know a number of people who travel this way.

Quoting RedChili (Reply 7):
The bookings screens you're showing clearly state:

"Whilst British Airways will make every reasonable effort to prodive you with the products listed above, for operational reasons, we may not be able to provide all of them."

Good point Big grin



"My first job was selling doors, door to door, that's a tough job innit" - Bill Bailey
User currently offlineAerofan From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1517 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 5045 times:

Fgbdavidson wrote , "No reason why you can't cancel the ticket whilst in the lounge. I know a number of people who travel this way"

Ok I don't understand this. Do you mind shedding some light


User currently offlineCarduelis From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2001, 1586 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 5004 times:

TLVFred

Rather than going through the same exercise in Feb06 as you did in June05, with the same result, why didn't you switch to the one of more convenient daylight flights of the daily BA 777 flights with F/J/W/T?

Or am I missing something?



Per Ardua ad Astra! ........ Honi Soit Qui Mal y Pense!
User currently offlineBHXFAOTIPYYC From Portugal, joined Jun 2005, 1644 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 4944 times:

Those 767's pop up now and again. Found one on the LHR EWR the other day, so ensured my J pax wasn't on that one. Have also found them on LHR NBO too, but I'm taking scheduled services here, not replacement equipment. There is nothing worse, from an agents point of view, than this type of equipment change because I can guarantee my client will be back in, and believe me a GBP100 refund doesn't do the job. Why the heck they don't offer a free upgrade voucher - this would solve a lot of our complaints paperwork.


Breakfast in BHX, lunch in FAO, dinner in TIP, baggage in YYC.
User currently offlineTrekster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 4938 times:

Passengers are also advised in plenty of time if the flight on that route is going to be changed to a shorthaul product, and advises passengers at time this happens what they can do.

If it is full J, you cn just cancell if you so wish, or move to another flight, we have 2 i think, but not looking at the sched so dont know.


User currently offlineMason From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 748 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 4488 times:

Question: Why would you spend 6 thousand pounds for a 5 hour flight? Y class on BA isn't that bad, plus when your trip is over, you have FIVE THOUSAND extra pounds to screw around with. Sounds like a no-brainer to me. Lesson learned.

User currently offlineDangould2000 From UK - Scotland, joined Dec 2005, 172 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 4389 times:

oh good lord, sweeties, why don't you all just fly first class, i never have any problems like that with first class,

you'd never get any problems either, i mean, the last thing BA want is to upset their high class passengers,


chookers,



Next Flights:- wherever the airline sends me
User currently offlineDangould2000 From UK - Scotland, joined Dec 2005, 172 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 4389 times:

well, maybe, just maybe, you might consider not flying with BA at all?

[Edited 2006-03-25 00:05:23]


Next Flights:- wherever the airline sends me
User currently offlineFbgdavidson From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 3713 posts, RR: 28
Reply 16, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 4352 times:

Quoting BHXFAOTIPYYC (Reply 11):
Those 767's pop up now and again. Found one on the LHR EWR the other day, so ensured my J pax wasn't on that one. Have also found them on LHR NBO too, but I'm taking scheduled services here, not replacement equipment. There is nothing worse, from an agents point of view, than this type of equipment change because I can guarantee my client will be back in, and believe me a GBP100 refund doesn't do the job. Why the heck they don't offer a free upgrade voucher - this would solve a lot of our complaints paperwork.

Except those are longhaul 767s with Club World flat beds! If one of those turned up there shouldn't be any complaints....unless you were booked in First that is Big grin



"My first job was selling doors, door to door, that's a tough job innit" - Bill Bailey
User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 4288 times:

Quoting TLVFred (Thread starter):
Anyone any ideas?

If you paid with a credit card, dispute the charges. The card company will fight for you if you have not been received what you paid for.


User currently offlineTLVFred From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 156 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (8 years 8 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4101 times:

Many thanks for all the great advice.

To answer a few people:

Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 1):
I don't think there is much you can do. BA have the right to substitute aircraft and product as part of the contract of carriage. However, keep pestering them. You might get lucky. My sister did...

OK - I accept that, but compensate me for the difference. If I ordered a Jaguar and got delivered a Mondeo, give me the difference.

Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 3):
would go nuts if that happened to me. Btw I thought all J class tickets were refundable, why not cancel your J class tickets on the spot and buy new ones in Y class, maybe for the following day if the Y class ticket on the day is stupidly expensive. Absolutely outrageous though, if I paid £6k to go on a four hour flight and got an economy seat, I would literally self combust on the spot. I thought BA were above such behaviour.

Bought I Class so couldnt. Offered to move to any other flight out of TLV. They wouldnt do it. Offered to move to LY. 'No relationship'. Asked for BA tel no in London. Refused it - had to call my dad in London and he looked it up!

fbgdavidson - As usual you went to extraordinary efforts! Much appreciated. TLV is Long Haul Club World as they use 777/767 and when I booked it said 6ft beds.

Quoting Carduelis (Reply 10):
Rather than going through the same exercise in Feb06 as you did in June05, with the same result, why didn't you switch to the one of more convenient daylight flights of the daily BA 777 flights with F/J/W/T?

777 only started today! with new summer timetable. Both were 767 prior to this.

Quoting Trekster (Reply 12):
Passengers are also advised in plenty of time if the flight on that route is going to be changed to a shorthaul product, and advises passengers at time this happens what they can do.

We were advised at check in!

We are complaining and complaning and speaking to the Consumer Assoc (Which) for advice.

My lawyer says they cant take the lowest price C class and give you the difference with the highest price Y. Its either both highest or both lowest.


User currently offlineFbgdavidson From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 3713 posts, RR: 28
Reply 19, posted (8 years 8 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 4004 times:

Quoting Aerofan (Reply 9):
Ok I don't understand this. Do you mind shedding some light

What is there to say? You've checked in for the flight but haven't boarded. You can cancel the ticket whilst in the lounge.

My father travels regularly on business within Europe and although it doesn't often happen he has had no problems getting his tickets refunded whilst in the lounge and going home / back to the office. Has happened due to clients being ill, last minute cancellation, problems with people getting to office etc etc.



"My first job was selling doors, door to door, that's a tough job innit" - Bill Bailey
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