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AC Announces New Fleet Delivery Schedule  
User currently offlineAc789 From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 11 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 7 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 11432 times:

17 777-200LR delivered in 2007 and 2008
3 777-300ER delivered in 2007
2 777-200F delivered in 2009
21 787-8 delivered in 2010-2011

http://www.aircanada.com/en/about/investor/documents/NBF_060321.pdf scroll to page 35

Interesting to see so many LR's in the 777 order; Looks like an emphasis of frequency over capacity (77W).

A few other interesting tidbits:
- AC claims 77L/77W provides 10% lower fuel and 42% lower mx costs than 343/345
- With 68 E190's in the fleet by 2007, we'll see a lot of new routes open up

96 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTinkerBelle From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 7 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 11383 times:

Woow, that's a lot of LR's in such a short period of time. Can't wait.

User currently offlineCgagn From Canada, joined Sep 2003, 345 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 7 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 11383 times:

Wow, 68 E-190s. Does that mean we will see alot of older A319s/A320s leaving the fleet, or are those new Embraers being used for expansion?

C-GAGN



Widebodies flown on: A330-300,A340-300,A380-800,747-400,767-200ER,767-300ER,777-200A,777-200ER,777-200LR,777-300ER
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21544 posts, RR: 59
Reply 3, posted (8 years 7 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 11365 times:

No 787-9, despite claims by many on these boards that they would be part of the order, not the options. Only 3 787-9s firmed are from LCAL, and they have not customer yet (or at least no engine choice).


Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16307 posts, RR: 56
Reply 4, posted (8 years 7 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 11331 times:

Quoting Ac789 (Thread starter):
With 68 E190's in the fleet by 2007, we'll see a lot of new routes open up

You're reading it wrong. That number is the fleet size of that type in that year, not the number of additions that year. The E190 fleet size will top out at 45 based on current orders.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineBoeingBus From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1597 posts, RR: 18
Reply 5, posted (8 years 7 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 11303 times:

Wow, 17 772LR! Hmm....Interesting how most thought the 772LR was a failure due to dissapointing sales. Again, 2005 was an amazing year for Boeing!

I wonder if 772LR is more econmical than a 772ER for a similar mission? Anyone know?



Airbus or Boeing - it's all good to me!
User currently offlineAc789 From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 11 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 7 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 11287 times:

Thanks Yyz717, I did misread the boxes. So the totals should be

13 777-200LR delivered in 2007 and 2008
3 777-300ER delivered in 2007
2 777-200F delivered in 2009
14 787-8 delivered in 2010-2011

45 is still quite a few E190's. I would expect to see some current A319/320/321 routes replaced by more frequent E190 service, plus new transborder stations (notably DFW, AUS, MSY as mentioned in the link)


User currently offlineTinkerBelle From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 7 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 11202 times:

Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 5):
I wonder if 772LR is more econmical than a 772ER for a similar mission? Anyone know?

It sure is. it's MTOW is higher than that of the 772ER.


User currently offlineOOer From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1482 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (8 years 7 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 11190 times:

Will AC add some transpacific routes?

User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4105 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (8 years 7 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 11146 times:

Quoting Ac789 (Reply 6):
45 is still quite a few E190's. I would expect to see some current A319/320/321 routes replaced by more frequent E190 service, plus new transborder stations (notably DFW, AUS, MSY as mentioned in the link)

Hopefully they'll upgrade their forthcoming SLC-YYZ from the proposed CRJ-700 to an E190 sooner than later. I'd like to see AC succeed in SLC and beyond YYZ add service to YUL.



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13252 posts, RR: 100
Reply 10, posted (8 years 7 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 11112 times:
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Quoting TinkerBelle (Reply 1):
Woow, that's a lot of LR's in such a short period of time. Can't wait.

That will be exciting.

Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 5):
I wonder if 772LR is more econmical than a 772ER for a similar mission? Anyone know?

The break even is apparently 4,000nm per the rumor mill. Sorry, I have no link. Above 4,000nm, the 772LR is cheaper to operate due to wingtip treatments (fuel savings), improved MTOW (payload), and improved crew rest areas (frees up seats for paying pax). Below 4,000 the 772ER's lighter weight and lower purchase price drive to reduce costs below the LR.

Quoting Ac789 (Thread starter):
A few other interesting tidbits:
- AC claims 77L/77W provides 10% lower fuel and 42% lower mx costs than 343/345

I'm shocked on the mx costs. Not that I didn't expect lower, but usually engines are 50% of a twin's mx costs. Thus I expected a figure on the order of 30% lower just due to fewer engines. 42% suggests airframe differences.

45 E190s by 2007 is quite a bit of expansion room.

Is AC done receiving the E175's? How many are in the fleet?

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineCruiser From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 1001 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (8 years 7 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 11112 times:

Quoting Ac789 (Thread starter):
17 777-200LR delivered in 2007 and 2008
3 777-300ER delivered in 2007
2 777-200F delivered in 2009
21 787-8 delivered in 2010-2011

Thats an old slide...AC has since changed the order. They will get 12 x 200LR's and 4 x 300ER's.

James



Leahy on Per Seat Costs: "Have you seen the B-2 fly-by at almost US$1bn a copy? It has only 2 seats!"
User currently offlineTifoso From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 440 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 7 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 11112 times:

Quoting Ac789 (Thread starter):
21 787-8 delivered in 2010-2011

Interestingly, they call it the 787-800 in the presentation.  Smile

Also, looks like AC is going to adopt VS and NZ style business class seats.


User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4105 posts, RR: 11
Reply 13, posted (8 years 7 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 11095 times:

Quoting OOer (Reply 8):
Will AC add some transpacific routes?

They want to add service to Beijing and Shanghai from YYZ and YVR is part of their plan.



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineFLYACYYZ From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 1914 posts, RR: 12
Reply 14, posted (8 years 7 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 10972 times:

Quoting Ac789 (Reply 6):
plus new transborder stations (notably DFW, AUS, MSY as mentioned in the link)

The infamous AUS flight strikes again!! I still remember operating the 319 with an average of 15 customers on board. I see SAT having a greater success factor than AUS.

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 13):
They want to add service to Beijing and Shanghai from YYZ and YVR is part of their plan.

YYZ-PEK has been up and running for well over a year now. YYZ-PVG is being added this summer. Beacuse of aircraft shortages it is operating as a 4/3 weekly split. The arrival of the T-7's will increase that frequency.



Above and Beyond
User currently offline9252fly From Canada, joined Sep 2005, 1396 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 7 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 10952 times:

Quoting OOer (Reply 8):
Will AC add some transpacific routes?

Another interesting one will be YVR-CAN.


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16307 posts, RR: 56
Reply 16, posted (8 years 7 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 10952 times:

Quoting Cruiser (Reply 11):
Thats an old slide...AC has since changed the order. They will get 12 x 200LR's and 4 x 300ER's.

The March 2006 issue of Aviation Letter also reported the switch of 1 772LR to a 773ER.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineFLYACYYZ From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 1914 posts, RR: 12
Reply 17, posted (8 years 7 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 10942 times:

Quoting Tifoso (Reply 12):
Also, looks like AC is going to adopt VS and NZ style business class seats.

Being designed by I believe the same manufacturer--Contour Premium Aircraft Seating in the UK. Enhanced version of the VS and NZ seats.



Above and Beyond
User currently offlineTinkerBelle From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 7 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 10912 times:

Something kinda doesn't make sense. Boeing already delivered the 2 772LR's they were using for tests to PIA (2nd one delivered today and on it's first revenue flight from JFK). I read in another thread they don't even have another 772LR in the pipes right now. Any idea why they are not working their butts off making more of these planes? Maybe if they were AC would have gotten some of their 772LR's this year!

User currently offlineFLYACYYZ From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 1914 posts, RR: 12
Reply 19, posted (8 years 7 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 10906 times:

Quoting OOer (Reply 8):
Will AC add some transpacific routes?

YYZ-LAX-SYD has been applied for in 2007
YVR-CAN is planned for 2007
YVR-NGO will be reinstated pending aircraft availability.
YVR-TPE???
YVR-MNL/BKK/SIN/AKL/MEL have been talked about.



Above and Beyond
User currently offline9252fly From Canada, joined Sep 2005, 1396 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (8 years 7 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 10855 times:

Quoting FLYACYYZ (Reply 19):
YVR-MNL/BKK/SIN/AKL/MEL have been talked about.

The only routes I find potentially interesting are MNL and MEL. I'm guessing that AC has 5th freedom rights from somewhere in Japan and could operate to MNL as an extension of one of their existing flights. I believe that CP used to operate both BKK and MNL as an extension of the YVR-HKG flight. So potentially,they have two possible gateways in Asia to operate to MNL. I doubt you will see BKK/SIN/AKL as they are hubs for Star Alliance partners and they do a lot of code-sharing with AC already. MEL could come back again as it was operated via HNL. Can anyone confirm if AC has 5th freedom rights from Japan? I only suspect it because JL has it for the YVR-MEX route. CX is currently using their rights on the YVR-JFK route daily.

[Edited 2006-03-24 05:05:08]

User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4840 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (8 years 7 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 10855 times:

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 10):
The break even is apparently 4,000nm per the rumor mill. Sorry, I have no link. Above 4,000nm, the 772LR is cheaper to operate due to wingtip treatments (fuel savings), improved MTOW (payload), and improved crew rest areas (frees up seats for paying pax). Below 4,000 the 772ER's lighter weight and lower purchase price drive to reduce costs below the LR.

All depends on a/c configuration. I think you will find for most airlines the figure is more like 5000nm. For NZ's config I believe it is even higher - hence why NZ chose 772ER's rather than LRs. Longterm I think NZ may get a subfleet of 4-8 LRs to service long routes such as AKL-New York (7686nm), AKL-YVR (6139nm), AKL-JNB (6586nm) etc, or they may just swap LR options for more 787 options. When Boeing makes a proper LR version of the 787 I think that will be the first airline to be able to do SYD-LHR/AKL-LHR non-stop in both directions



56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 22, posted (8 years 7 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 10819 times:

Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 5):

I wonder if 772LR is more econmical than a 772ER for a similar mission? Anyone know?

PK, being the first operator of the plane have stated that it will save them approximately 15-20% in operational savings over their existing 777-200ER's....they are using the same configurations if I'm not mistaken

Quoting FLYACYYZ (Reply 14):
. YYZ-PVG is being added this summer. Beacuse of aircraft shortages it is operating as a 4/3 weekly split. The arrival of the T-7's will increase that frequency.

will they be using the -300ER or the -200LR's for that route?



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineFLYACYYZ From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 1914 posts, RR: 12
Reply 23, posted (8 years 7 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 10787 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 22):
will they be using the -300ER or the -200LR's for that route?

From what I've been told, they will operate with the 772LR's. The 773ER's will predominantly operate, routes formerly operated by AC's 744 Combis:

YYZ-LHR
YYZ-FRA
YUL-CDG
&
YVR-NRT



Above and Beyond
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 24, posted (8 years 7 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 10768 times:

Quoting FLYACYYZ (Reply 23):

From what I've been told, they will operate with the 772LR's. The 773ER's will predominantly operate, routes formerly operated by AC's 744 Combis:

YYZ-LHR
YYZ-FRA
YUL-CDG
&
YVR-NRT

sounds reasonable...thanks...

can't wait until I see those 777's in AC colours... bigthumbsup 



"Up the Irons!"
25 FLYACYYZ : Training starts late summer/fall for Cabin crews. Trying to find out seating configuration and capacity. Will pass it on as soon as I hear.
26 11Bravo : Probably because thay are working their butts off building 300ERs for orders placed before the LR slots were sold.
27 SLCUT2777 : Ask anyone at DL how bad they want any of these out of ATL!
28 YULWinterSkies : You did mean YUL-FRA... However I do think they should send it on YUL-CDG too, AF is too strong on this route (although their 773ERs won't operate it
29 Ikramerica : well for airlines internally, it is the 787-8XX where you replace XX with your customer number, so internally it isn't wrong to call it a -800. Kind
30 DavidYYC : So which of these new aircraft will they use on the transatlantic route, specifically YYC-LHR and YVR-LHR? The 772LR?
31 Post contains images Lightsaber : It also depends on the engine choice/discount. So yes, the distance will vary based on configuration. Lightsaber
32 Kiwiandrew : it would seem a bit of a waste to use the LR on such short routes - though I would guess you might see the occassional substitution due to mx issues
33 DavidYYC : Thats what I thought and why I posed the question, because with the delivery list posted in the starter thread the options were either the 772LR or 7
34 Pictues : yeah but AC is only getting the B777-200LR so they will fly both ULH and Long Haul flights that warant the extra capacity over the B767-300's as they
35 Kiwiandrew : why not - the A330s are still relatively young aircraft .... so why not get another 5 years use out of them before the 787s come online in 2010/2011
36 Ikramerica : 772ER is overkill from BOS-LHR too, but airlines still fly it. Can carry tons of cargo and no need to load it full of fuel to do it, so there are some
37 Centrair : 787 or older 767...as long as it has a good connection to other flights. AC actually has cheaper flights from MSP-NGO than NW. But the schedule is ho
38 DYK : Canada does have 5th freedom rights from Japan currently unused. CP did operate YVR-NRT-HKG. i am not sure if the 5th freedom rights are from NRT onl
39 OyKIE : I was just reading roughly down this thread, so I apologize if this has already been discussed, but was Air Canada suppose to get some B777 this year
40 AirCanada014 : They have all 15 E175s. no more delivery and no options to take. AC was suppose to receive their 777s this year but since they had to cancel the orde
41 OyKIE : And after this cancellation allot of people on A.net talked about Air Canada was supposed to lease some 777 as an interim solution this year as an ef
42 FLYACYYZ : Being the last aircraft to go, these routes will see A333's for quite some time & eventually 787's. That was the plan, but given the demand for this
43 Post contains images Glideslope : Wise move by AC. It's the future.
44 JAGflyer : 777F? Freighter? FREIGHTER?!
45 Post contains links KrisYYZ : Quoting OyKIE (Reply 41): And after this cancellation allot of people on A.net talked about Air Canada was supposed to lease some 777 as an interim so
46 OyKIE : Thank you for your clarification. Thank you for an even more detailed clarification. By the way. How many A333 do AC have?
47 Accargo : Yes, Freighters, To replace (or supplement) the current wet-lease operations using World and Gemini MD-11F's.
48 Post contains images Accargo : Lot's of rumours about that but absolutely no hard info. We have been told officially that ACE will have 7 777's by 7 month 2007. Maybe delayed to th
49 Post contains images Lightsaber : When routes are really close to the breakeven point between using one airframe or another, the choice of aircraft to use is based on other route dema
50 Post contains images Bmacleod : So AC is getting 13 777LRs, the equivalent of 13 340-500s of which AC only has two. I guess AC is focusing more on range than capacity? With so many 7
51 LH477 : Wow....alot of 777LR's. I don't think it's for frequency reasons. More likely for opening new routes to South Asia, South East Asia, Australia, Middle
52 Cruiser : There will be no more A343's. They are leaving the fleet as the 777's come online. After all of the planes are delivered (and options taken), AC will
53 LongHauler : It would not be difficult at all to get B777s for this Summer. The big problem was and is getting things ready for their arrival. Management has stat
54 Cruiser : 8 Only 12 x 772LR's...and 4 x 773ER's...and 2 x 772F's. James
55 SunriseValley : In a posting on Nov. 10th 2005 Widebodyphotog states that the -200LR has about a 3% better fuel burn per unit of payload than the -200ER at ranges bey
56 Olympus69 : Do they have a 777 simulator on order, and if so when do they expect to receive it?
57 Bmacleod : Interesting to note as well that AC will be the first North American operator of two Boeing products - the 777LR and the 777-300ER. Usually that honor
58 Post contains images Jacobin777 : Canada being our largest trading partner..
59 Gigneil : What does that have to do with the question? They're 777s. They get built on the lines with other 777s. That just happens to be where AC got slots. H
60 DavidYYC : I suspect that the YYC-LHR and YYC-FRA route will continue to expand and not have enough capacity for the A330 up untill 2010/11. The economic growth
61 USAF336TFS : Congradulations to AC and Boeing. This really does solidify Air Canada as a premier North American carrier, although they've worked hard to achieve th
62 LongHauler : There has been no mention of a B777 simulator, but that does not mean it is not ordered. The EMB 175 Simulator is operational in YYZ now, with the EM
63 JayinKitsap : I think AC is the first airline to realize the 772LR's economics when flying and put it in as the main workhorse of the fleet. This range opens up vir
64 Post contains images Jacobin777 : it wasn't in a link, it was in an aviation magazine...unfortunately, I forgot which issue it was.... maybe PK was the first airline, as they are usin
65 LH477 : It's still ugly. It doesn't have the elegance of a A330, I find the wings of A330 much more pleasing, and the tail looks too thin..... But I am a fun
66 Post contains images Jacobin777 : I can see where you are coming from....as I love the A330's also......but the 777 is the complete package!
67 USAF336TFS : Well Mr LH477, I too have that form over function mentality myself, but on this one, my vote goes for those 777/787s with the Air Canada livery... The
68 LH477 : Well, I don't think anything beats the AC current livery with the A330/340, but thats upto personal taste. But, I have switched sides, I may not like
69 Aerofan : Has VS sold license of their seat to AC as well? Thought they only sold it to NZ
70 Post contains images Thebry : This is crazy --- 777 is one of the cleanest looking aircraft in production. No goofy winglets, symmetrical cross-section, amazing wing and two ginor
71 Ikramerica : It really was designed for carriers in countries like Canada, South Africa, Australia, Singapore, etc. Opens up non-stops that they didn't have to a
72 Post contains links and images Jacobin777 : hey..you dont' have to tell me...my A.net username says it all..
73 Pictues : The A330 will probably leave the fleet before the B787's arrive or not long after. Actualy the A330's will be the last Airbus Widebodies to leave but
74 VonRichtofen : AC doesn't fly into Taipei. And if they did it would be from YVR not YYZ Kris
75 FLYACYYZ : We did operate summer seasonal service to Osaka-Kansai from YYZ pre 9/11. Wonder if that will make a comeback.
76 SLCUT2777 : Joined at the hip and head economically speaking!
77 SLCUT2777 : Just learn how to say AirBus Sucks! & Boeing is Best! Then you'll be a true North American!
78 AirCanada014 : I can't wait to fly those 777s and 787s.
79 OldAeroGuy : Airframe maintenance roughly correlates with weight, something the A345 has plently of. Exactly right
80 LongHauler : Me too, I just put my bid in for the B777. Of course, I don't have a hope in you-know-where of getting it. Left seat that is ... and as right seat B7
81 AirCanada014 : Well good luck, I hope you get your wish. I'm just going in as a passenger non rev. I'm planning to go to Vietnam and Hongkong in 2008 so hopefully t
82 LongHauler : If I understand the comments of our Flight Ops Management, the A340-500s will go almost immediately following the initial delivery of the B777s. The
83 Post contains images AirCanada014 : Cool thanx Longhauler. So now I know I can look forward of flying my first 777 flight to HKG.
84 Cslusarc : In the first three quarters of 2007 AC takes delivery of 4 77Ws and 3 77Ls. I've been under the impression that the A345s will leave the fleet when t
85 AirCanada014 : Yes I hope AC exercise their options for additional 777s plus 787s. I like to see AC get all their 36 B777s and 60 787s including their options. Thats
86 Ikramerica : I think you are right, it really depends on the growth outlook for AC as it moves forward. Projections now and reality then won't coincide exactly, s
87 Cruiser : Its not too far off when you also include the 20 Airbus widebodies. Plus, the new widebodies will be flying a lot of new routes, so I think that ulti
88 DavidYYC : A question for Cslusarc. Will the A330 continued to be used on YYC-LHR and YYC-FRA until the 787 arrives? Does AC not anticipate continued growth on t
89 Cslusarc : I'm guessing that the 333 is the best aircraft (for YYC transatlantic flights) that AC will have in its fleet until the 789 (or 787-10) arrives. I th
90 Post contains links and images Lightsaber : Aaah. I should have realized this with the 787 order too... I too wonder why the 777 production rate hasn't been increased. (Strike while the iron is
91 Post contains images MD90fan : Who will take their A345 when they give them up? It will be sad to see their A333 go, I like them alot in the AC livery
92 AirCanada014 : Thats a good questions who will take the A345s and A333s along with A343s. I know from every post people saying A333s will be the last to go and 343s
93 RJ111 : Lies damn lies and statistics. Not really apples to apples is it? Considering it's massively smaller size and NRT-YVR is A333 territory. Infact i'm q
94 Yulguy : Forgive me if this has been mentioned, but are the E175 and E190 meant to be replacing the A320 and A319 in the AC fleet or are they meant to replace
95 Accargo : The RJ's are being sent to Jazz. The Embraers are for mainline to add new routes and handle existing routes. Jazz will now operate RJ routes. The 319
96 AirCanada014 : If Boeing decide to do B787-10 whats the chance of AC taking the options for 787-10 or 787-9? Since AC was the first customer to chose the mix fleet o
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