A346 From Germany, joined May 2004, 115 posts, RR: 0 Posted (7 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4369 times:
Recently I heard that Ansett ceased operations. Since I hadn't heard anything about it I just searched google for their homepage. And for my surprise I saw that they ceased operations already in 2004. I mean what the hell happened, I read this forum quite frequently to almost every day and I have been following any Airline news, too. Somehow, these news did pass me.
So my question is why did they cease operations, what happened to the employees and where did all their aircraft go? Wasn't Ansett at some date part of the star alliance? I don't know if I am mixing them up with NZ, though?
DLPMMM From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3537 posts, RR: 9 Reply 1, posted (7 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4334 times:
They went bankrupt, the employees were all fired, the planes were sold off. NZ tried to save them at one point, but they were just losing too much money.
ClassicLover From Ireland, joined Mar 2004, 4528 posts, RR: 25 Reply 3, posted (7 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4286 times:
They were part of Star, they ceased flying on 12 September 2001, were restarted for a bit with A320s in 2002 and that lasted only a few months.
The 767s were sold for scrap I believe, while the rest of the fleet was mostly resold. Some aircraft (Fokkers mainly) went to the desert.
The airline was losing money badly, and had lost market share to Qantas Domestic (formerly Australian Airlines, formerly TAA). The 767s were grounded at one point due to safety issues and this ruined customer confidence in the airline. This was one of many reasons for the collapse... others were the start of international operations being marred by a 747 that landed without nosegear... plus a very diverse and aging fleet.
They were a good airline, but now they're gone.
I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
If you try a search on A.net forum, try the following combination: Civil Aviation (Archived) - Search for word: Ansett - Search date: September 2001 & tick only thread starter. This way, you'll find dozen of thread having any connection (apparently) with the topic Ansett.
Otherwise, if you like books and reading, you may try to find: "Ansett - the collapse" by Easdown & Wilms (ISBN : 0734404441). I found it quit interesting to read. I bought it some two years ago in New Zealand via internet( New Zealand books ). In all, the price, for the book and the shipping fee, was something like 20-22 euros. Cheaper than a traditionnal bookshop in Switzerland for this kind of book!
Bennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 6392 posts, RR: 1 Reply 5, posted (7 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4117 times:
I think that the problem with the B767 related to corrosion on the engine pylons, plus it was just after 9/11, plus I think that they had a lot of hours, plus I think that they had a 3 crew cockpit.
767ER From Australia, joined Apr 2001, 1092 posts, RR: 4 Reply 9, posted (7 years 2 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 3876 times:
Ansetts demise was due to a myriad of events....wrong mix of fleet ie: A320s & 733s. Pilots union insisting that when the 762 was ordered it had to be a 3 crew cockpit. The Pilots Strike in 1989. The 762 corrosion fiasco. Ansett International never made a cent. The list just goes on and on.......
Zkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4740 posts, RR: 10 Reply 10, posted (7 years 2 months 4 weeks ago) and read 3837 times:
NZ wanted to enter the Australian Domestic market. The Australian Government said no and basically forced them to buy 50% of AN if they wanted an Australian feeder. AN was mismanaged well before this, had major union troubles that would probably make DL/NW problems look like mild headaches, (too many staff). They had a mixmatched fleet of many different types, with mx issues. Cost-wise they painted their wings white because it looked nice...never mind the extra cost of doing so, or the extra weight! Back to the union issue... Other 767 operators use 2 tech crew to fly the plane, AN unions forced AN to modify the a/c to fit a 3rd seat in for an engineer! 767s don't need that! AN was losing market share to QF, NZ wanted to get 100% of it to do a clean out of all the issues, refleet it and make a successful airline. BIL (Brierley Intl ltd) was a major shareholder in NZ, with its chairman Sir Selwyn Cushing, they both proceeded to rape NZ and subsequently NZ had no money to fix AN and Sir Selwyn Cushing tried to do a dirty deal with SQ to buy NZ and in turn AN which fell through. By this time AN was bleeding money losing over $1million per day, QF went for the jugular to kill AN and NZ with one stone and managed to get the CASA (Australian Safety Authority) to ground ANs 767s. This of course took massive chunks of revenues etc and was followed by 9/11
Quoting Fbgdavidson (Reply 7): This might sound daft but is it just a coincidence they stopped flying the day after 9/11?
yes it was a coincidence as AN would have gone under anyways, but with the 9/11 event NZ just couldn't be dragged under by AN anymore so they wound the company up and gave it to the receivers. NZ itself then posted the largest corporate loss in New Zealand history (having bailed AN out for so long, yes you people who blame NZ..it was NZ sending money to Australia not the other way around!) NZ then had its shares suspended on the sharemarket, was a day or 2 from being bankrupt when the New Zealand government bought 80odd% of the airline, gave them some cashflow and NZ is where it is now... thankfully with no BIL raping it, and no AN draining it.
Ansetts demise was a combination of its former owners, poor management, out of control unions, mixmatched fleet, and the Australian Government. It was a dog, and NZ inherited it.
Having said that it is a shame, and everyone both in Australia and New Zealand did feel sorry for the people that lost their jobs. The Australian Government should be the one to shoulder the blame. SJ (Freedom Air) would have been operating in Australia years before Virgin Blue, giving QF a run for its money if it hadn't of been for the Australian Government (and QF pulling their strings).
NZ1 From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 2196 posts, RR: 26 Reply 11, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3769 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW FORUM MODERATOR
Quoting A346 (Thread starter): Recently I heard that Ansett ceased operations. Since I hadn't heard anything about it I just searched google for their homepage. And for my surprise I saw that they ceased operations already in 2004. I mean what the hell happened, I read this forum quite frequently to almost every day and I have been following any Airline news, too. Somehow, these news did pass me.
So my question is why did they cease operations, what happened to the employees and where did all their aircraft go? Wasn't Ansett at some date part of the star alliance? I don't know if I am mixing them up with NZ, though?
Any infos about them are apreciated...
I don't mean to be overly rude, but are you for real? If you've kept an eye on this forum as you stated, you couldn't possibly have missed that chapter in aviation. It was big news all around the world.
Wunala From Australia, joined Mar 2005, 940 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3609 times:
Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 12): Ansett: The Collapse by Geoff Easdown and Peter Wilms
I couldn't read that book. Maybe in a few years, but last time I tried reading it I was too emotional, and had to put it down. I have a few like that.
AN should never have gone. I know then had the problems, and we all have our theories as to why they went, but it is history now, we have to look to the future with the current domestic airlines, and any future hybrids that may come out of it.
But in all seriousness, where have you been for the last few years A346?
SA7700 From South Africa, joined Dec 2003, 2930 posts, RR: 20 Reply 14, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 3589 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW HEAD MODERATOR
Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 10): By this time AN was bleeding money losing over $1million per day, QF went for the jugular to kill AN and NZ with one stone and managed to get the CASA (Australian Safety Authority) to ground ANs 767s.
How ironic - time passed by and then QF tried to get in to bed with NZ
Rgds
SA7700
When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud
A346 From Germany, joined May 2004, 115 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 3461 times:
Seriously,
I might have read it somewhere or heard? In 2001 I wasn't as interested in aviation as I am now. Now I read Flight International and now I am an A.net member. I think I did not see it since, I wasn't an A-nut backt at that time
But thanks for all the info, I probably gonna get the book
Cedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 7724 posts, RR: 55 Reply 16, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3416 times:
Ansett was, in the end, one of the worst run airlines on the planet. A small airline, they still managed to have 747s, 737s, 727s, A320s, F28s, you name it. A couple of everything.
A post implied Qantas in the grounding of the 767s. Maybe, maybe not. It can hardly be considered a malicious act though, the planes weren't safe.
And yes, it was a coincidence they shut down on Sep 12. I heard on Sep 10 in London (which I guess was the morning of Sep 11 in Sydney) that they were toast and about to shut down. Man, I was so upset, my first ever flight was on Ansett's 727 VH-ANA.
EK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 3983 posts, RR: 4 Reply 17, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3318 times:
To cut a long story short......
Ansett was milked by the 2 GREEDY shareholders back in the early-mid 70's - 90's....
TNT's Peter Abeles who wanted more aircraft to expand TNT & NEWS Corp Rupert Murdoch who was after one thing & 1 thing only...The T.V network Ansett owned....
Air New Zealand probably just didnt know how deep of a problem Ansett was in when ANZ purchased TNT's 50% share & later on NEW Corps remaining 50% shares....The milking had already been done....
I dont agree what ANZ did was right offloading an Airline to defend for it self & 17,000 employees being left out in the cold with millions of dollars worth of benefits not being paid.....
It was a really sad moment in Aviation history when you take into account that Ansett was even more profitable than the government owned airlines.....
EK413
Qantas and Emirates, connecting the globe 1 stop to 65 destinations
EK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 3983 posts, RR: 4 Reply 18, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 3252 times:
I dont agree what ANZ did was right offloading an Airline to defend for it self & 17,000 employees being left out in the cold with millions of dollars worth of benefits not being paid.....
Just to add to my 1st post... ANZ had no choice in the matter but to do what was right being the Kiwi main carrier & for its survival it had to offload Ansett....
R.I.P Ansett
EK413
Qantas and Emirates, connecting the globe 1 stop to 65 destinations
Zkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4740 posts, RR: 10 Reply 19, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 3244 times:
Quoting EK413 (Reply 20): I dont agree what ANZ did was right offloading an Airline to defend for it self & 17,000 employees being left out in the cold with millions of dollars worth of benefits not being paid.....
What about TNT and News Corp (two aussie companies) offloading AN (at a ripoff price, between them they made off with $1.2billion after not spending a cent on AN for years and taking all the money from AN), or the Australian government for screwing AN. NZ did what it had to do... The Australian government wouldn't let NZ set up its own operation there. Had it been allowed to, it would have most likely meant that AN would have still collapsed, but at least NZ would be there operating and hiring many of those staff!
Fly2CHC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 20, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3132 times:
[quote=StealthZ,reply=15]You on drugs... NZ sold AN assets to pay their own bills then forced AN to lease the A/C back to keep operating!! Allegations of NZ using AN fuel accounts in Aus to fund their operations never really answered.
Yes AN prevented NZ going bankrupt... years earlier, was only the rape and pillage of AN assets that kept NZ afloat during the late '90s
What are you talking about!!!! I can't go into the details of my position at the time, but you are way off mate.
Incidentally, it was the Australian Govt putting pressure on the NZ Govt (though QF pulling the strings) which prevented the next part of the plan coming into place. SQ were supposed to purchased a 40% stake in the resulting Air NZ Ansett Australia Group. If they had been allowed to proceed we would still be seeing Ansett in the airs today (albeit perhaps a severly rationalised version). This would have created one of the 20 largest airline conglomerates in the world and finally provided a real form of competition for QF. This is why I don't really have too much sympathy for QF whinging about EK, and was disgusted to see that they still have such an influence in terms of preventing SQ trans-Pacific access (considering they operate how many flights from Singapore to Europe??).
A346 From Germany, joined May 2004, 115 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3073 times:
Wow, I think discuassion become very kind of emotional right now.
My opinion is that it is very sad that AN dissappeared, but it is funny how the Aussies and the Kiwis (right word for NZ inhabitants?) start bashing each other, that it was their fault. I think the truth lies somewhere in between. And guys don't forget, those managers are all Greedy, no matter if they are Australian, from New Zealand, Germany, or Singapore. No business men would just maintain a business if they wouldn't see a chance to make it profitable again, or without getting something out of it for themselves....
Nzrich From New Zealand, joined Dec 2005, 1488 posts, RR: 1 Reply 22, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3023 times:
Unfortunately there is a lot of emotions on both sides of the tasman there were unfortunately 2 pawns in this argument and realyl they were NZ and AN between both countries governments and both companies previous shareholders the 2 airlines were both at some stage milked (both prior to nz's investment in AN ) AN was in bad shape when NZ took it over and the Virgin and Impulse came and that was the end of AN ...Unfotunately a sad day but NZ had to let it go before both AN and NZ were taken under...As it is NZ just survived and now is in a lean and financially strong state like it always used to be ...
Personally this issue needs to be buried for both sides AN and NZ
BNE From Australia, joined Mar 2000, 3156 posts, RR: 13 Reply 23, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2993 times:
Please keep the language civil and don't resort to personal attacks.
Quoting NZ1 (Reply 11):
I don't mean to be overly rude, but are you for real? If you've kept an eye on this forum as you stated, you couldn't possibly have missed that chapter in aviation. It was big news all around the world.
It was a very big story in Australia and New Zealand and probably only got a minor mention in the rest of the world especially with the September 11 attacks getting the majority of the news coverage at that time.
Reading the book "Ansett The Collapse" is a good start to learn about what happened.
Another good book is "Ansett. The Rise and Fall of Ansett 1936 - 2002"
EK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 3983 posts, RR: 4 Reply 24, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2935 times:
Zkpilot
Had you read my second post you would of saved your self from trying take a bite out of me.... I ADDED to my original "POST" I understood ANZ had no choice BUT to offloaded Ansett & leave it to defend for it self...Probably ANZ wouldn't be operating today if it hadn't offloaded Ansett when it did...
I'm just saying there had to be something ANZ could of done for the 17,000 employees...Give Ex-Ansett employees benefits which up until today are still waiting receive a single cent!!!
A word of advise, check ALL posts before you try & take a go at someone who knows the facts of what happened after all I have read "The story of the rise & fall of Ansett"!
EK413
Qantas and Emirates, connecting the globe 1 stop to 65 destinations
USPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3267 posts, RR: 8 Reply 25, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2884 times:
I have a copy of the last system timetable for AN, dated March 25, 2001. I had only heard about AN's collapse a few months later, partially because of the effect of 9/11 on the US industry. Great network in Australia and New Zealand. Reminds me of US Airways' dense network in the US pre 9/11. Sad to see a great domestic airline fall.
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