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Delta Builds Critical Mass In New York  
User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 11684 times:

Delta Air Lines executives say that their massive build up of a hub at New York’s JFK, along with the creation of a domestic feeder network, will make it the largest US-flag carrier on the North Atlantic.

http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...lds+critical+mass+in+New+York.html

129 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTWA902fly From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 3125 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 11670 times:

Is Delta not already the largest transatlantic carrier? i was under that impression.

'902



life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
User currently offlineDL787932ER From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 597 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 11593 times:

They're the largest U.S. - based transatlantic carrier currently. The new flights starting this summer will make them #1 overall.


F L Y D E L T A J E T S
User currently offlineTWA902fly From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 3125 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 11524 times:

Who is the largest transatlantic non-US carrier that is the #1 overall transatlantic carrier? or would that include all routes to the carribean and south america? in which case it would make sense if it were something like BA or AF or KL. My guess is BA, is that right?

'902



life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
User currently offlineMalpensaSFO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 11524 times:

Quoting TWA902fly (Reply 3):
My guess is BA, is that right?

Estimation, as a Guess

1/ British Airways
2/ Lufthansa
3/ Air France
4/ KLM


User currently offlineKYAir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 362 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 11505 times:

"#1" using what measure? Number of flights, number of seats, destinations served, passengers carried - what? Also, the above-linked article mentions that including ATL they will have capacity "near" the equivilent to LH - that sounds like LH will have more capacity!

Also, on another current thread there's a list of BA flights to JFK and they include 4 744's, 2 777's and a 763. That's A BUNCH of capacity to overcome, but I guess once all of DLs European flights are counted they could beat that.

BA Using 767's To EWR! (by BHXDTW Mar 24 2006 in Civil Aviation)
reply #13.



Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened - Dr. Seuss
User currently offlineMalpensaSFO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 11467 times:

With Continental and Delta nearly matching European routes 1 for 1, are things going well in Sky Team?

User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 11434 times:

Interesting article.

Quote:
Bob Cortelyou, Delta vice-president for network, said the European strategy will make many interior US cities reachable by a one-stop journey instead of the two-stop or worse itineraries now required because most competitors have limited domestic network feed.

So this means DL is going to try and build up JFK as a hub again?

Quote:
And he is not worried about competing with JetBlue Airways on domestic routes to JFK since “people are going to fly where they can get connections and frequent-flyer points to go international”.

Uh-huh...and people are going to choose tickets based on service, not cost. I have serious doubts about DL's ability to make JFK a domestic hub.

Quote:
Cortelyou said Delta is using widebodies that flyers prefer to the narrowbodied fleet that Continental uses heavily on its European network from Newark/Liberty, a rival New York City-area airport.

VERY misleading...757's are perfect for the smaller European cities where a 767 is too much capacity. And CO does use 767's and 777's on key routes.

Quote:
Delta’s SkyTeam alliance will have about one-third of transatlantic capacity, ahead of Star and oneworld with about 26% each, Fernandez said.

Isn't CO a member of Sky Team? First fellow member CO is knocked for not having wide-bodies on all the routes, but then CO's partnership is gratefully acknowledged when it comes to comparing percentages of trans-Atlantic travel.

I think clarification is needed.



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineDL787932ER From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 597 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 11392 times:

Quoting KYAir (Reply 5):
"#1" using what measure?

http://news.delta.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=10140

Quote:
With the July 2006 schedule, Delta will be the world’s No. 1 airline in terms of departures, destinations and available seat miles between the United States and destinations across Europe, India and Israel.

Looks like DL will have the most flights, most destinations, and most capacity.



F L Y D E L T A J E T S
User currently offlineKYAir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 362 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 11351 times:

Quoting DL787932ER (Reply 8):
Looks like DL will have the most flights, most destinations, and most capacity

Thanks DL787932ER!  bigthumbsup 



Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened - Dr. Seuss
User currently offlineMalpensaSFO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 11351 times:

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 7):
I have serious doubts about DL's ability to make JFK a domestic hub

Yes, they are going to try and lure people to a bankrupt airline that may or may not remain in New York...  sarcastic 

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 7):
So this means DL is going to try and build up JFK as a hub again?

For what? The third time?

When are they going to get the memo that not one airline, will ever match the power that was TWA and Pan Am at JFK...  sarcastic 

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 7):
Isn't CO a member of Sky Team?

Yes, and offers a far more superior product than Delta on both domestic and international flights.


User currently offlineFantasticFlyer From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 57 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 11317 times:

They're taking the 767's off of the Domestic routes?  Sad I love those planes, they may not be the best for domestic travel in November or something but when I travel (July) they always seem to be packed

User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 11214 times:

There is more than enough room for two large international US carriers in NYC. I expect it will be DL at JFK and CO at EWR. DL will make serious inroads in CO’s international dominance from NYC before CO gets enough aircraft to respond.

Unlike the usual airplane fights from NYC, DL is concentrating its growth largely on ethnic markets that have usually been served either by small flag carriers in the destination country from JFK or via codeshare on the big western European flag carriers. DL is developing markets that US carriers have only toyed with and never really developed. At this point in the world, there is more than enough room for US carriers flying to dozens more countries around the world than are currently served by US carriers. DL will cement itself in the NYC market because it is NOT trying to fly to every little city in western Europe from NYC but instead picking those markets that have value and flying them from ATL where DL has the reach to serve all of the US except the NE. Believe it or not but people connect in ATL flying from Europe to all but NYC and New England.

The only Europe must have that DL doesn’t have is London from JFK. I fully expect that DL will make a move to resolve the issue one way or the other in the next year.

I don’t think JFK-GRU is the last Latin American route you will see DL fly from NYC. If only because DL is using about 6 aircraft on transatlantic routes for summer seasonal service, they have to go somewhere so I expect you will be seeing announcements of JFK-S. America service soon. DL may not be able to serve Argentina by treaty but there are many other options available.

Beyond the six or so 767 aircraft flying seasonal summer service, DL has another 8 which can be deployed to int’l routes, many of which could be from JFK. The number of redeployable aircraft could be even higher if DL can replace its 764s flying from the west coast and SLC with something else – like non-ER 763s or ETOPS 757s, freeing up another half dozen 764s.

DL tried to serve JFK-NRT just before 9/11 w/ an MD11 and could easily reinstate it w/ a 777 esp. now that NW is not flying JFK-NRT; NW wasn’t a DL partner in 1991 when DL flew JFK-NRT. I wouldn’t be surprised if DL makes its next application for China service to be from JFK. DL’s new JNB service and possibly its TLV service could be switched back to 767s freeing up the 777s for New York-Asia.

As for the domestic flights at JFK, JetBlue is pulling back from its market share strategy which is losing money for them. DL is adding first class which is what they need to do to get connecting Business Class passengers to fly through JFK. NYC pricing will become much more rational. B6 just raised fares again.

CO very much feels threatened by DL’s international growth as evidenced by the rumors (likely true) that CO is shopping for short-term widebodies. AA is really threatened because they have very little expansion capability and AA will only have serve JFK markets that DL doesn’t serve to London, EZE, ZRH, and NRT. DL could shorten that list pretty quickly.

Don’t kid yourself about DL and CO cooperating out of NYC just because they are in Skyteam. CO has no place to go for another alliance as long as US stays in Star but if anything changes in alliance world, CO and DL could go their separate ways. And it should be apparent now that DL and CO will never merge because of their extensive NYC overlap.

DL will succeed very well in NYC and NYC will figure prominently in how the industry shakes out in the future. AA, CO, and DL have NYC. UA and NW largely do not and US only has a fragile domestic position.


User currently offlineMalpensaSFO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 11104 times:

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 12):
. I expect it will be DL at JFK and CO at EWR.

Rethink that one to AA/B6 at JFK and CO at EWR...

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 12):
, DL is concentrating its growth largely on ethnic markets that have usually been served either by small flag carriers in the destination country from JFK or via codeshare on the big western European flag carriers.

Yeah that is why they have not touched places like Limassol, Karachi, Islamabad, Bratislava, Amman, and Beirut...  no 

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 12):
I don’t think JFK-GRU is the last Latin American route you will see DL fly from NYC.

GRU via JFK from Delta, give it a year at best...

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 12):
DL tried to serve JFK-NRT just before 9/11 w/ an MD11 and could easily reinstate it w/ a 777 esp. now that NW is not flying JFK-NRT;

With what money?

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 12):
NW wasn’t a DL partner in 1991 when DL flew JFK-NRT.

2001...  wink 

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 12):
CO very much feels threatened by DL’s international growth as evidenced by the rumors (likely true) that CO is shopping for short-term widebodies.

Is that why Continental has such a supeior product to Delta Airlines?
Is that why CO got China over Delta?
When was the last time Business Elite one an award?

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 12):
DL will succeed very well in NYC and NYC will figure prominently in how the industry shakes out in the future.

How will they fight of AA and CO in the long term... Cash is short!

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 12):
Believe it or not but people connect in ATL flying from Europe to all but NYC and New England

Yes so many people in California love the bowels of the toilet known as ATL.. sarcastic 

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 12):
DL could shorten that list pretty quickly

With what money?

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 12):
I fully expect that DL will make a move to resolve the issue one way or the other in the next year

With what money?


User currently offlineJFKLGANYC From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3450 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 10991 times:

AA will never beat DL at JFK in terms of European destinations served!

You have to understand, in terms of hubs, AA is not CO and it's not DL.

CO and DL put NYC ahead of most other cities in the US in terms of importance of int'l flights. For int'l flights only ATL is bigger for DL. Nothing is bigger than EWR for CO.

For AA, the emphasis will always be ORD, MIA, and DFW when looking to grow. JFK gets the 'important' routes and the scraps left from three other hubs.

DL and CO continue to place utmost importance on new routes from JFK and EWR respectively.

Even for all of DLs build ups and cutbacks at JFK; one can not fault them for trying. It shows that they really want JFK to work. And for the most part, they do make it work.

For each build up and subsequent cutback, JFK has gained more service than it lost and even before this next build up, JFK has never been bigger for DL.

AA, despite its $1billion terminal, just doesn't have the flight commitment to JFK that DL has.

Don't know why, they inherited TWA just as DL inherited Pan Am.

PJ


User currently offlineFewsolarge From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 409 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 10892 times:

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 13):
Yes so many people in California love the bowels of the toilet known as ATL..  

Way to tie poop into the discussion. Bonus points.


User currently offlineD950 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 493 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 10860 times:

Would it not be smart, since they want to expand JFK again, to cosolidate the LGA operation into JFK and perhaps if possible to,sell or lease the LGA gates to generate some revenue, or are they able to do that??


Resting on your laurels is a synonym for flirting with disaster
User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 10827 times:

few,
there are people who try so hard to deny the truth. They are the ones that are the most fun to watch when they are proven wrong. Yes, it's possible a route or two from JFK won't work but you can be sure those planes will be redeployed someplace else... maybe even AMM, BEY, or KHI, although KHI looks a little tenuous politically. How about PRG instead of BTS?

And don't forget that AA will have costs on the upper end of the spectrum...right up there w/ UA... once DL and NW get out of BK.


User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4898 posts, RR: 25
Reply 18, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 10827 times:
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Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 10):
When are they going to get the memo that not one airline, will ever match the power that was TWA and Pan Am at JFK...

Usual fallacy - DL's presence at JFK (# of flights, # of destinations served) even now (before the upcoming summer expansion) is bigger than TW or PA's ever were during their heyday. Just because TW and PA are JFK icons doesn't mean they were powerful and large (yes, large in the symbolic sense but not in the physical sense). Even without the new summer flights, DL has over 90 daily flights out of JFK (this will go up to over 135 dailies this summer); PA at its peak in the late eighties had only about 60-70+ daily flights. PA of course served more international destinations out of JFK than DL currently does (the difference being some Carribean destinations; Europe they're pretty equal) but DL certainly offers more domestic destinations and frequency than PA ever did.


User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 10797 times:

...and there was no such thing as alliances in the current sense in PA's days. Because PA never flew the 767 and basically only used the 747 for longhaul flights, DL's 767s will push DL's reach from NYC much farther than PA DL. TW used the 767 successfully from NYC but it was already too late for serious market development.

User currently offlineJFKLGANYC From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3450 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 10757 times:

Lest we forget that from 1998- the end, TWA was had a pathetically small operation at JFK. They were a shell of their former self. It was sad to watch.

I remember them ending service to:

CLE
DTW
ORD
BOS
DCA
TPA
FLL
PBI
MXP
FCO
MAD
BCN
ATH

All within like 2 years.

PJ


User currently offlineDb373 From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 238 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 10664 times:

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 13):
Rethink that one to AA/B6 at JFK and CO at EWR...



Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 13):
GRU via JFK from Delta, give it a year at best...



Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 13):
With what money?



Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 13):
Yes so many people in California love the bowels of the toilet known as ATL..

Wow. Someone's going through their monthly cycle....



Keep Delta My Delta
User currently offlineCOERJ145 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1421 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 10587 times:

If CO wanted to expand, why not merge with AS? CO could use some west coast/pacific NW service/hubs, and AS needs east coast service. Also, with AS going all 737, it would fit in nicely with CO's large 737 fleet. With both airlines offering similar products, I see a win-win situation with a CO/AS merger. Also, with the AS 739s and 738s, CO could possibly free up some 752s for international service.

[Edited 2006-03-25 00:11:22]

[Edited 2006-03-25 00:19:16]

User currently offlineIncitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4009 posts, RR: 13
Reply 23, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 10449 times:

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 12):
DL will cement itself in the NYC market because it is NOT trying to fly to every little city in western Europe from NYC but instead picking those markets that have value and flying them from ATL where DL has the reach to serve all of the US except the NE.

Delta is not cementing itself in Western Europe simply because it cannot compete with the likes of Continental, American, British Airways and even its partner Air France. So it has to go look for "ethnic" markets, a.k.a., less competitive.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 12):
I don’t think JFK-GRU is the last Latin American route you will see DL fly from NYC.

It is unlikely that Delta can make money on JFK-GRU, much less JFK-EZE or JFK-GIG.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 12):
AA is really threatened because they have very little expansion capability and AA will only have serve JFK markets that DL doesn’t serve to London, EZE, ZRH, and NRT. DL could shorten that list pretty quickly.

Whether Delta can serve those markets profitably is another story entirely.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 17):
there are people who try so hard to deny the truth.

 checkmark 

Good luck to Delta on its nth effort to expand in NY.



Stop pop up ads
User currently offlineMarkATL From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 539 posts, RR: 8
Reply 24, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 10399 times:

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 13):
Yes so many people in California love the bowels of the toilet known as ATL..

Who pissed your Wheaties today? As someone who was born and raised in San Francisco (well born in Redwood City and raised in Palo Alto and San Francisco) I gotta tell ya....San Francisco ain't all it cracked up to be. Also, Atlanta where I live, now is a much more livable place than the Bay Area. I meet lots of California refugees all the time who all say the same thing..."thank god we got out of there" and "great place to visit, lousy place to live". So tell me since your such an expert. How well do you know Atlanta?



"...left my home in Georgia, 'n headed for the "Frisco" Bay...
25 FlyPNS1 : No they couldn't. Without access to LHR, DL has no real chance at the London market unless they want a bunch of low-yield tourists going to STN. Ther
26 Post contains images WesternA318 : Amen! Preach on Malpensa! Correction: DL did not inherit PA, they took over what was left. Why would we need a hub that far up in the northwest?
27 Gift4tbone : Well, personally I'm looking forward to this JFK domestic expansion. I do believe they will have to pick which cities to serve from, particularly big
28 RwSEA : Off topic, but I hope AS is not acquired by CO. Every other airline based on the west coast has had their route network decimated when being bought o
29 MalpensaSFO : What Delta says and what Delta does are two different things..
30 Dallas74 : Given the fact that the Delta Pilots Union is calling for a "practice strike" next week most of what is being discussed here could become rather moot.
31 WesternA318 : Umm, just to clarify, DL didn't really dismantle Western's SLC hub, just turned over A LOT of the regional routes to Skywest/ASA.
32 Incitatus : Delta has a small presence in the main transatlantic routes out of JFK. For example, how is it that DL only has one daily JFK-CDG and one JFK-FRA?
33 JetBluefan1 : You mean Larnaca? Limassol doesn't have an airport. In any case, if any airline offered service from JFK/EWR to LCA at a reasonable rate (~$800 r/t),
34 Gift4tbone : I would agree with you, except one thing, Well I don't remember PA's BK, but I do remember TWs, and it was much more widely broadcast, even 2 sec blu
35 RwSEA : Who said anything about SLC? I was referring to LAX.
36 COERJ145 : Yea, uncertainty made me switch from DL to AA from BOS to SAN and back, over april break. It also convinced me to exchange my NW award ticket from TU
37 WesternA318 : By October 1986, when DL purchased Western, WA was slowly eliminating flights (aside from Mexico, Hawaii, Alaska) and moving everything, including HQ
38 WorldTraveler : It is possible that DL added SAT as a "preventive measure" in the event that someone else might have added it from JFK. Since "someone else" hasn't ad
39 Alitalia744 : Speaking of building critical mass in NYC, has everyone seen the new OOH advertising that DL has been using? Personally, I find it quite nice - gives
40 Planetime : What international routes did Pan Am have from JFK?
41 Post contains images AAden : delta does appear to be on it's way out. thats right AAs got the cash
42 WorldTraveler : it would seem it's time for AA to pay down some debt... holding that much cash is very costly in interest payments. Unless it wants to go out and buy
43 Gigneil : They're not even close. They may serve a large number of destinations, but AA's transatlantic RPMs are almost twice Delta's. N
44 DL787932ER : I posted my source in reply 8 of this thread. If you have a contradictory source, would you care to post it, and explain why it should be believed an
45 Post contains images MalpensaSFO : Delta The Bankrupt Airline? The Suddenly International Airline? The Pilot Union Issue Airline? The Bankrupt Airline? The Identity Crisis Airline? The
46 MarkATL : MalpensaSFO, We get the point, you hate Delta. I've never understood how people get so emotional about they're favorite/unfavaorite airlines. They're
47 Aisak : mmm... CDG could be a sort of agreement between AF and DL. Notice there are 4 AF and 1 DL for CDG-JFK and there are 4 DL and 1 AF for ATL-CDG It's ea
48 DL787932ER : What a silly post. Yes, DL is bankrupt, just like NW, like UA just was for three years, just like CO and US twice each. Yes, they have issues with th
49 Gigneil : Actually I was wrong. While AA and UA both have over twice as many international RPMs and ASMs, DL, AA, and UA are almost identical in terms of trans
50 Panamair : What a ridiculous statement...Small presence compared to who? JFK-CDG is split between DL and AF. DL had (until today) two JFK-CDG dailies - same as
51 AAden : what are they????[Edited 2006-03-26 03:47:27]
52 WesternA318 : RPM = Revenue Passenger Mile.
53 WorldTraveler : in regard to DL's number of CDG flights, it should be obvious that DL's strategy is to feed only those passengers to AF than DL cannot carry to their
54 Post contains images MalpensaSFO : The strongest identity? Where? In regards to international.... Take a seat in the back... American, Northwest, Continental, TWA, Pan Am, Braniff and
55 Alitalia744 : Don't take something out of context to prove your point, the Deltaflot was started solely in regards to the livery so I'm calling BS here
56 MesaMXORD : Its not only International at JFK they contracted us (MESA) to fly DASH-8's up there to the smaller cities. Is this to take a bite out of B6 before th
57 Post contains images MalpensaSFO : To many it is a reference to the service in-flight at Delta seldom provides..
58 DL787932ER : Umm...anywhere south of Kentucky and east of Texas, for starters. "Airline of the South" since the 1940's or so. They're the only real game in town a
59 FlyPNS1 : This was true in 1986, but in 2006 that is not DL's reputation. Most people know DL for ONE thing and ONE thing only....they're "that airline with a
60 Panamair : For that matter, most US carriers are considered by Europeans to be low-end budget carriers they are forced to take either because of the prices offe
61 Post contains images MalpensaSFO : Really? Tell Continental that.. Really? Where did Delta fly 30 years before Continental did outside of the U.S. borders.. Insert.... friendly, bankru
62 Post contains images DL787932ER : Cuba, Haiti, and other places in the Caribbean, as well as South America, starting in 1953. Looks like CO's first international services started in 1
63 Bucks918 : The JFK buildup, which starts this month, has as a key goal the more profitable utilisation of aircraft such as its larger Boeing 767s by taking them
64 DL4EVR : Is that all you can say about Delta? Bankrupt airline? That seems to be included in most of your posts about DL. There was a whole post in av prefs a
65 FlyPNS1 : Very true. Although I think DL is viewed as even more of a budget airline because of the large focus on Florida. Granted DL is now trying to de-empha
66 WorldTraveler : The value airline reputation may well stick and it will be because DL will match or undercut the lowest fares because DL will have the lowest costs an
67 RwSEA : Dude, we get it. You hate Delta. Now why don't you take your anger somewhere else, so those of us who want to have a constructive conversation can do
68 FlyPNS1 : Just because you have the lowest costs doesn't mean you can make money. DL already has costs lower than AA or CO, yet AA and CO are both predicted to
69 Post contains images MalpensaSFO : Prefs dont make an airline.... Fortunately for a good many people... Delta is not anywhere on or in their travel plans... Lucky lot!
70 DAL767400ER : Just a few friendly words to the three of you: Just ignore MalpensaSFO/Kahala777/LHR001/whatever else identity he had. All he is trying is to stir th
71 Post contains images MalpensaSFO : Delta, Northwest, US Airways... Most Europeans look at them for the bucketshop fares Yet another person who thinks that bankruptDelta and bankruptNor
72 Avi8tir : what reason is that? do you even know? it was becuase the "Wavy Gravy" livery resembled that of aeroflot. no other reason than that.
73 USPIT10L : While I'm glad to see DL taking JFK seriously as a transatlantic and regional hub, the Dash 8s that they want to use to ALB, BWI, PVD, etc. may well b
74 BigGSFO : AA hasn't developed JFK into a major, international hub, nor have they announced they would do so. So to compare them to DL's operations is apples to
75 Panamair : As mentioned many times before, most people do not know what type of a/c they are going to fly on, let alone decide on whether to take a flight based
76 Jbmitt : what qualfies you to speak for the Europeans? I would like to know your credentials. Based on my experience living in the Netherlands, I found the Du
77 Panamair : You forgot to mention that aside from their own countrymen, many Europeans also look to IB, EI, AZ, and even KL, AF, VS, and BA for bucketshop fares
78 WesternA318 : Umm, Continental had the Air Micronesia service since 1973/4, when the DC-10's started rolling out (although Air MIke used 727-100's). Then when Texa
79 Alitalia744 : Euro airlines offering cheap fares? Never! *Sarcasm* What's the european airline, who offer $99-199 o/w fares between JFK-LHR in the winter months? O
80 Post contains images WesternA318 : Laker SkyTrain??
81 Willyj : ATL is Atlanta's airport, not the city itself. Most people making connections through ATL don't get to go into the city, so that's not really relevan
82 Post contains images MarkATL : MalpensaSFO....You are the Bill O'Riley of this board.
83 Gigneil : Now now... #1 US airline to Europe. Both Air France and BA beat DL soundly... BA with almost 3,000,000 RPMs. N
84 WesternA318 : Now now, let's not involve Ol' Bill into this, hell, I listen to him almost daily!
85 DL787932ER : I understand it can be rude to quote oneself, but it's easier than retyping what I posted at the very beginning of this thread. As of today, March 27
86 DL787932ER : Thanks; I recognize that now, and it appears he's not the only one. I'll restrict future replies to such people to refuting with proof any factually
87 WesternA318 : Amen DL787932ER, welcome to my RU list!
88 Post contains images Vegasplanes : DL has a bunch of domestic flights to/from LGA, what would be the simple solution is a "behind security" Skytram from LGA to JFK and vice versa that
89 Post contains images DAL767400ER : That would probably also cost quite a bit . Reducing Florida flights, reducing CVG flights, increasing aircraft utilization by another 30-60 minutes
90 USPIT10L : I hate to repeat myself, but if DL is serious about building up JFK as a hub, they need to get more gates there and bigger aircraft. A CRJ-200 is just
91 JFKLGANYC : "I hate to repeat myself, but if DL is serious about building up JFK as a hub, they need to get more gates there and bigger aircraft. A CRJ-200 is jus
92 Post contains images DAL767400ER : Of course, and you know that a 70-seater is better suited than a 37-seater because ? As per Bombardier, baggage space on the DHC-8-Q400 is 502 cubic
93 USPIT10L : I do know that the CR7 has more space and can take more bags. We used to get them around noon from ATL for about two months. Much nicer plane than the
94 MalpensaSFO : Well since I am a second generation with loads of family in Europe that fly KLM, Air France, British Airways, and Lufthansa... I have the right to...
95 Jbmitt : Last time I checked.. your family would be a secondary source..not quite as good as a primary one, nonetheless a source. I can argue politics, and Eu
96 Post contains images MalpensaSFO : That would depend on income level and social standing.. Air France had one major accident in the past two decades... due to the failure of Continenta
97 DeltaSFO : Anyone who says DL has no international history obviously doesn't know the history of the U.S. aviation industry. Delta was doing business in South Am
98 Luv2fly : And the recent accident in YYZ was on which airline again! Think before you post would you.
99 USPIT10L : Agreed. Very good read. Probably the best book on DL out there. I even flew on DL's 75th Anniversary. Couldn't get to Hangar One for the celebrations
100 InTheSky74 : Honestly, what does everyone think about Delta's LONG TERM chances of surviving??? They are losing TONS of money every month - do you think they will
101 Jrlander : Darn good question- but United was in deep trouble a few years ago, and now they are predicting a profit this year. Delta has some very good assets- a
102 MalpensaSFO : Loss of life? Yes, bleeding more and more cash... And the JFK/ATL Euro expansion will have made them sorry they ever tried it..
103 WesternA318 : INEPT SAFETY PRACTICES? ARE YOU INSANE??? I know several DL, CO, AA and US mechanics and pilots, to them safety ALWAYS comes above anything else! Its
104 Vegasplanes : DTW Dec. 7th or 9th 1991. A NW 727 tried to land on a departing NW DC-9, who was on the wrong runway, during the daylight hours, I heard it on the ra
105 Gigneil : Simple. Your source is a press release with no information in it except a marketing claim. My source is easily accessible traffic reports which are p
106 USPIT10L : Take his advice.
107 WesternA318 : Amen, USPIT10L. It's also very irritating when all thes epeople work so hard to make the airlines the safest in the world and he just comes on and una
108 JFKLGANYC : "American Airlines, Delta, Northwest, United, and US Airways Safety Records have less than anything to be desired.." I'm sorry . . . are you a f**king
109 MalpensaSFO : Yes, it can be said that more things may happen.. as theory may have. Although one cannot turn a blind eye to any accident. One accident is to many.
110 WesternA318 : Delta has always been one of the safest according to the FAA, so has American, Continental, Frontier, Mesa (I can't believe it though), and a whole sl
111 MalpensaSFO : Mesa, and Frontier I will hand to you, as they have had a good run so far.. AA, CO, DL, US, UA, NW... Read the reports..
112 WesternA318 : I will agree with you that Western and PSA were great airlines in their day, BUT, DL did not squander WA's system. I have mentioned this in other thr
113 Gigneil : Which is it? Do you even know? I have. The accident rate for US airlines is consistent with the best from around the world. Accidents, btw, are measu
114 MalpensaSFO : Ignore the facts, and face the same failures over again..
115 BestWestern : Largest carriers based on weekly ASK capacity for April 2006 BA LH AA DL UA AF CO VS NW AC
116 Gigneil : Suggesting that these airlines are doing nothing to ensure safety is not only ludicrous, its insulting to everyone including yourself. British was in
117 Luv2fly : It was still an accident! Are they currently flying the said aircraft!
118 Post contains images OlegShv : Since MalpensaSFO's relatives (and himself) are renowned experts in aviation flight safety, let's write a petition to FAA to hire them all as FAA con
119 Post contains images WesternA318 : LOL, better yet, let the NTSB hire thewhole lot of them. Cause of next accident? Malpensa: It was a US airline, therefor shoddy in maintenance upkeep
120 MarkATL : Why is everyone giving this guy (MalpensaSFO) the time of day? He is obviously is getting off on everyone arguing with him. Everytime someone responds
121 JFKLGANYC : Here we go: Airline Accident Rates for the US and Canadian Airlines Accident Rate; Flights ; FLE*; Events ; Last Accident Air Canada 0.33 4.75M 1.58 3
122 JFKLGANYC : Here's Europe: Accident Rate; Flights ; FLE*; Events ; Last Accident Aer Lingus/Aer Lingus Commuter 0.00 1.20M 0.00 0 - Air France/Air France Europe 0
123 JFKLGANYC : Delta Accident Rate: .16 Continental Accident Rate: .18 NW Accident Rate:.28 United Accident Rate: .37 USAirways Accident Rate: .35 Air France Acciden
124 USPIT10L : I wholeheartedly agree. See post 106. Same thing.
125 JFKLGANYC : Unfortunately for those who claim European airlines are safer than there US rivals, the stats speak for themselves. Turkish, KLM, Olympic, TAP, Swiss,
126 JFKLGANYC : And one more thing: "Why is everyone giving this guy (MalpensaSFO) the time of day? He is obviously is getting off on everyone arguing with him. Every
127 LOT767-300ER : I dont think thats true, and Im speaking to you as a European. I enjoy flying UA, AA over the pond much more than say Alitalia, Iberia or LH. But ple
128 Post contains links MarkATL : Quoting JFKLGANYC (Reply 126): You be the gentleman and prove him wrong in an educated discussion. He doesn't respond to facts, why waste your time? S
129 Panamair : I cross the pond every other week (sometimes every week) and must say that you are more of an exception. I have many Swiss, French, and German collea
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