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United Summer European Schedules - Too Much Fun?  
User currently offlineTWA902fly From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 3129 posts, RR: 4
Posted (8 years 9 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4003 times:

I noticed that all United flights to Europe have a block time ending in 8 minutes. For example:

UA 941 FRA-ORD 9 hours 08 minutes
UA 959 LHR-ORD 8 hours 38 minutes
UA 949 LHR-ORD 8 hours 38 minutes
UA 909 AMS-ORD 9 hours 08 minutes
UA 947 AMS-IAD 8 hours 18 minutes
UA 935 LHR-LAX 11 hours 18 minutes
UA 943 CDG-ORD 9 hours 28 minutes
UA 901 FRA-SFO 11 hours 28 minutes
UA 951 BRU-IAD 8 hours 38 minutes

SFO-LHR, MUC-ORD flights seem to end in 3 minutes

UA 955 LHR-SFO 10 hours 53 minutes
UA 931 LHR-SFO 11 hours 03 minutes
UA 907 MUC-ORD 9 hours 53 minutes

Somebody in the scheduling department having a bit too much fun?
(yes i know i have too much time on my hands)

'902


life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineNosedive From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 9 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3947 times:

Wow, boredom for $100, Alex!

User currently offlineSwank300 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 49 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 9 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3912 times:

Hey can someone explain why it takes almost the same amount of time to go from LHR-LAX and from Fra-SFO? Shouldn't the london-lax route be shorter?

User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11154 posts, RR: 59
Reply 3, posted (8 years 9 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3893 times:

Quoting Swank300 (Reply 2):
Hey can someone explain why it takes almost the same amount of time to go from LHR-LAX and from Fra-SFO? Shouldn't the london-lax route be shorter?

Los Angeles is more to the south and that's why they are about the same despite Frankfurt being further east than London.

It's a bit difficult to explain, it's because the earth is a globe (specifically an oblate sphere). My suggestion is to get a globe of the earth, get a string and hold one end of the string over Frankfurt and the other over San Francisco, then do the same for London and Los Angeles.

It'll make sense then.

Also, check out this website:

http://gc.kls2.com

You get these numbers:

LHR-LAX 4741 nm
FRA-SFO 4952 nm

The distances as you can see are pretty similar.



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20822 posts, RR: 62
Reply 4, posted (8 years 9 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3833 times:

Quoting BA (Reply 3):
Los Angeles is more to the south and that's why they are about the same despite Frankfurt being further east than London.

That really doesn't make a whole lot of sense, I don't think, since LAX is also about 200 miles east of SFO (draw a line due north from downtown LA, and it'll hit Reno, NV). This is why SF is closer to Hawaii than LA, because SF is so much further west, even though it's north of LA.

The major differences in block times have to do with traffic on the ground and taxi time relative to the time of day and departure point, routing, and plane type. If you notice, UA955 and UA901 are 747's, UA931 and UA935 are 777's, and when UA939 comes onto the schedule with a 767, the block time increases by 20 minutes over the 777 flight.

A lot of variables there.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11154 posts, RR: 59
Reply 5, posted (8 years 9 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3762 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 4):
That really doesn't make a whole lot of sense, I don't think, since LAX is also about 200 miles east of SFO (draw a line due north from downtown LA, and it'll hit Reno, NV). This is why SF is closer to Hawaii than LA, because SF is so much further west, even though it's north of LA.

I'm glad you are thinking, but you are making this more complicated than it has to be. To make it simple, ask yourself. Is Los Angeles more to the east of San Francisco or is it more to the south of San Francisco?

It is more to the south than it is east, so for the sake of simplicity, consider it south.

Because it is further to the south, Los Angeles is farther from Europe than San Francisco is.

Take a look at this map and you will see what I mean:



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20822 posts, RR: 62
Reply 6, posted (8 years 9 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3736 times:

Quoting BA (Reply 5):
but you are making this more complicated than it has to be.

Nah, don't think I am. Remember, you're comparing a 211-mile and 10 minute difference between FRA-SFO (on a 747) and LHR-LAX (on a 777), and trying to justify the difference being due to LA being more southerly, without taking into consideration that there's a 90-mile and 15 minute difference when comparing the same aircraft for LHR-SFO and LHR-LAX.

The difference isn't solely due to LAX being more southerly, is my point.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11154 posts, RR: 59
Reply 7, posted (8 years 9 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3663 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 6):
Remember, you're comparing a 211-mile and 10 minute difference between FRA-SFO (on a 747) and LHR-LAX (on a 777), and trying to justify the difference being due to LA being more southerly

If LAX wasn't as far south as it is, than the difference in distance would actually be more than 211 nautical miles.

To put this in perspective, compare FRA-SFO with LHR-SFO. The difference is 288 nautical miles.

The reason why there is a 77 nautical mile difference is because of Los Angeles' more southern location.

LHR-LAX is farther than LHR-SFO.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 6):
without taking into consideration that there's a 90-mile and 15 minute difference when comparing the same aircraft for LHR-SFO and LHR-LAX.

Yes, again... that's because of Los Angeles' more southern location, therefore LHR-LAX is a longer distance than LHR-SFO.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 6):
The difference isn't solely due to LAX being more southerly, is my point.

Yes, there are many other variables that could be included. Both LHR and FRA are heavily congested airports and thats why there are many delays and long taxi times. However, I am here talking about distance.

LAX's more southern location makes its proximity from LHR/FRA farther than SFO's proximity from LHR/FRA.



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineNorthstarBoy From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1872 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 9 months 23 hours ago) and read 3582 times:
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so why is it then that sfo-syd is actually shorter than Lax Syd, one would thank that since LA is further south, that is it closer to Australia, yet, Sfo-syd is a shorter flight, distance wise


Why are people so against low yields?! If lower yields means more people can travel abroad, i'm all for it
User currently offlineTWA902fly From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 3129 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (8 years 9 months 23 hours ago) and read 3543 times:

you guys start your own topic about why cant you move LA closer to Frankfurt, while my question was light hearted i was sort of actually wondering if theres a reasoning behind the 3 and 8 minute schedules?

'902



life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11154 posts, RR: 59
Reply 10, posted (8 years 9 months 22 hours ago) and read 3473 times:

I must retract a previous statement I made.

LAX is actually approximately 0.3 degrees more to the east of SFO than it is south.

I just ooked up the longitude and latitude coordinates of both and compared them.

Sorry for any misunderstanding or confusion caused.



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21861 posts, RR: 55
Reply 11, posted (8 years 9 months 22 hours ago) and read 3453 times:

You missed the JFK-LHR flights, which are 7:18 going eastbound, and 7:48 going westbound.

That is interesting, I have no idea why they do that.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11154 posts, RR: 59
Reply 12, posted (8 years 9 months 22 hours ago) and read 3439 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 12):
That is interesting, I have no idea why they do that.

My guess is standardization.

They're trying to keep things simple by going with specific intervals ending in 8.

It's easier to read and interpret this way.

Not sure why SFO-LHR and MUC-ORD are exceptions ending in 3 as TWA902fly found out however...



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineBistro1200 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 337 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (8 years 9 months 13 hours ago) and read 3159 times:

Quoting TWA902fly (Reply 9):
you guys start your own topic about why cant you move LA closer to Frankfurt, while my question was light hearted i was sort of actually wondering if theres a reasoning behind the 3 and 8 minute schedules?

Actually the reason is that the block time is now computed to the minute, instead of rounding to the nearest 5 minute mark. This used to give "pretty" departure times (1430, 1805, etc). Most airports are slot-controlled outside the US, and the departure or arrival time in those airports cannot change, thus the US-side of the times changes since most US airports that support UA's international service don't have slots or are not as restrictive. The fact that they all end in :03 or :08 is coincidence.

It is a cost-saving move, since now it has the effect of shortening the block time. Remember the additional minutes were added just make the times end on a :00 or :05. It also has the benefit of a few minutes of additional connecting time.



Measure to the millimeter, mark with a crayon, cut with an axe.
User currently offlineTWA902fly From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 3129 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (8 years 9 months 13 hours ago) and read 3151 times:

Quoting Bistro1200 (Reply 13):
Actually the reason is that the block time is now computed to the minute, instead of rounding to the nearest 5 minute mark. This used to give "pretty" departure times (1430, 1805, etc). Most airports are slot-controlled outside the US, and the departure or arrival time in those airports cannot change, thus the US-side of the times changes since most US airports that support UA's international service don't have slots or are not as restrictive. The fact that they all end in :03 or :08 is coincidence.

You know thats a pretty big freakin coincidence. Plus BRU, MUC etc are not slot controlled. I am not sure i'll go with your answer. LHR i would believe... but the other ones?

'902



life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
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