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Maximum Engine Power On A330  
User currently offlineBjornstrom From Australia, joined Jun 2005, 329 posts, RR: 1
Posted (8 years 6 months 20 hours ago) and read 2742 times:

I have been reading about 777 vs A330/A340 in endless threads and decided to look further into the technical differences.

I've tried to search for a answer and if this has been discussed & explained earlier im sorry. My questions are:

- Why is it not possible to fit larger & more powerful engines to the A330 without all the modifications that the new A350 will provide?

- Why did Airbus build the A345/A346 but not a similar A335/336 upgrade?

I put together this simple table with specifications from Airbus & Boeing homepages that clearly displays how much larger and more powerful the 777's are.

A332 - MTOW 233 tonnes - 2x72k lb thrust - 6750nm range
A333 - MTOW 233 tonnes - 2x72k lb thrust - 5650nm range

B772 - MTOW 247 tonnes - 2x77k lb thrust - 5210nm range
B772ER - MTOW 298 tonnes - 2x94k lb thrust - 7730nm range
B772LR - MTOW 347 tonnes - 2x110k lb thrust - 9420nm range
B773 - MTOW 298 tonnes - 2x93k lb thrust - 5955nm range
B773ER - MTOW 351 tonnes - 2x115k lb thrust - 7880nm range


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6 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 84
Reply 1, posted (8 years 6 months 20 hours ago) and read 2735 times:

Quoting Bjornstrom (Thread starter):
Why is it not possible to fit larger & more powerful engines to the A330 without all the modifications that the new A350 will provide?

What would that accomplish? Engine power doesn't create range.

Quoting Bjornstrom (Thread starter):
- Why did Airbus build the A345/A346 but not a similar A335/336 upgrade?

Again, what would that accomplish? The market for the 350 seat medium haul plane was already well covered by he 777-300A and there was little room for growth in that space, so no need for a larger A330. I'm not sure what an A335 would be.

N


User currently offlineBjornstrom From Australia, joined Jun 2005, 329 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (8 years 6 months 20 hours ago) and read 2708 times:

My guess was that more engine power gave opportunity for larger fuel tanks and a longer fuselage.


Eurobonus Gold | BMI Gold | http://my.flightmemory.com/bjornstrom/
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 84
Reply 3, posted (8 years 6 months 20 hours ago) and read 2708 times:

You would need significant modifications to the plane for both of those things... a la the A350.

Otherwise, it'd just be an A340-500 or A340-600 with two engines.

N


User currently offlineBjornstrom From Australia, joined Jun 2005, 329 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (8 years 6 months 19 hours ago) and read 2679 times:

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 3):
Otherwise, it'd just be an A340-500 or A340-600 with two engines.

Thats part of my point - why not a A340-500/600 with two (larger) engines instead of four? Isn't that what the 777 is all about?



Eurobonus Gold | BMI Gold | http://my.flightmemory.com/bjornstrom/
User currently offlineBoeing767-300 From Australia, joined Sep 2001, 659 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 6 months 9 hours ago) and read 2516 times:

Quoting Bjornstrom (Reply 4):
Thats part of my point - why not a A340-500/600 with two (larger) engines instead of four? Isn't that what the 777 is all about?

Because its too late and too expensive to do that, anyhow the horse (772ER 773ER and 772LR) has well and truly bolted. Airbus may as well close the stable door and work on a replacement for A340/A330. The A350 will be competition for 787 and some models of 777 (namely 772 and some 772ER missions) but won't be able to compete with the 77X versions (77W 77LR) for sheer capacity (weight) and range.

To be fair to Airbus when the A330 and A340 were developed (Several years before B777 both models were relying on the biggest engines that were available at the time. The 340 was let down by the cancelling of the 'superfan' project and had to rely on the extreme upper limits of CFM development. The 330 was constrained to the upper limits of CF6 PW and Trent engines of around 68 - 72K.

The B777 initially had engines of around 77K but quickly grew to 85K then 90-98K and finally the GE90-115B (at 115,000K) which has become 'legendary' on the long range derivatives of 77X.

Things could have been different for Airbus had these power plants been available several years earlier. This of course is not predudicing A's clear preference then of 4 engines instead of 2.

Its not a simple case of bolting on larger engines to a330 either. Imagine the re engineering required to mount the larger 777 engines to A330s wing!!!

As I have said before Boeing took a punt on the 'Very Large Twin' on both being reliable and acceptable to the market and this relied heavily on the engine makers providing the high thrust engines 90K + that at that time had not been developed. The reliability and economics of these engines and the acceptance of ETOPs has paved the way for the success of the B777 that you have seen. The irony of all this is that is was Airbus who began the widebody twin in 1972 but later abanded that theory for 'four engines for long haul'

We all know what happened to that and now you have Airbus following Boeing with the A350 which will have its work cut out in the 787/777X combo.l


User currently offlineBjornstrom From Australia, joined Jun 2005, 329 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (8 years 6 months 6 hours ago) and read 2431 times:

Thank you for taking your time to put together this extremely good answer!


Eurobonus Gold | BMI Gold | http://my.flightmemory.com/bjornstrom/
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