Londonlady71 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2006, 152 posts, RR: 2 Posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 5446 times:
the more and more passengers I check in each day with connections to LAS and it really makes me wonder why there isnt a direct flight out of LHR.
I am sure united could make it work, so many people say they dont want to fly virgin through a bad experience or cant handle the trek to gatwick etc just wondered why there isnt a direct one, anyone have any reasons why it maybe wouldnt work for any of the major handlers?
I think it would be a nice money spinner personally as I am sure more would be inclined to use it if it was there etc! let alone all the people who otherswise have connections...
British767 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 284 posts, RR: 23 Reply 3, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5305 times:
Quoting Londonlady71 (Reply 2): I wondered if there was a reason....as a dumb female (my blonde highlights get to me) can you explain more to me about the bermuda thing?
Basically only certain airlines can fly between the US and LHR. BMI is not allowed at the moment, and all the airlines that fly between LGW and the US probably do so because they can't fly from LHR. There are also some destinations that airlines can't fly to from LHR, like ATL, IAH (not direct anyway) and so on.
StarGoldLHR From Heard and McDonald Islands, joined Feb 2004, 1529 posts, RR: 1 Reply 4, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5246 times:
it's an agreement signed in the 1970's allowing only 6 airlines to fly between the UK and the US.
In the UK these are:
VS and BA
in the US these are:
(TWA and PA) replaced by AA and UA.
Additional to this Air India and Kuwait Airlines have grandfather rights to fly from LHR to JFK (thus making up the 6).
The Agreement also restricts destinations in the US which these airlines can fly.
The theory behind the agreement is that the UK needs two airports for flights to the US, LHR and LGW.
If this was unrestricted, all the US airlines would converge all their flights on to LHR, and the amount of competition would put UK airlines out of business and Gatwick airport as a complete backwater airport.
The agreement therefore forces US destinations to be split between LHR and LGW, and restricts competition against UK airlines by limited US carriers per airport each.
It so fell that LGW serves "secondary" and "holiday" US destinations, and LHR "business" US destinations.
The Actual number of flights is also restrictive, which is why BA concentrates so much on JFK, they have more flights than destinations, and cannot economically fill them to all destinations, so concentrate on the busiest.
Although I'm not exactly sure but there was some clause about Concorde flying into IAD and JFK in the agreement, and I believe it is the cessation of concorde which could allow some of the rules to be changed.
I'm not an expert but there are many on here who will probably be able to fill in the gaps a bit better.
So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
United have no feed of their own at LAS. They would have to rely on code-shares with US, which now have a hub at LAS as a result of acquiring America West. At LHR, UA also have no feed of their own and would have to rely on feed from Star Alliance carriers, some of whom refuse to code share with UA because of the disparity in service standards.
Given that LAS is a leisure market with little business traffic, I'm not at all sure it would work.
LAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5085 posts, RR: 48 Reply 10, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5031 times:
Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 4): Additional to this Air India and Kuwait Airlines have grandfather rights to fly from LHR to JFK (thus making up the 6).
Don't the Indian private carriers, Jet and Sahara, get the rights to fly from JFK too under the new India-UK bilateral?
LAX2IADandORD From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 44 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5018 times:
Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 4): Additional to this Air India and Kuwait Airlines have grandfather rights to fly from LHR to JFK (thus making up the 6).
I believe Air New Zealand flies LAX to LHR which can be purchased as a separate leg (as it is a continuation of their flights from New Zealand onto England).
The question was for clarification purposes. I *thought* that the VS service to LAS operated out of LHR. Clearly the concept of a clarifying question was too complex for you...
Alphascan From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 936 posts, RR: 14 Reply 13, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4949 times:
There is only one carrier that offers "direct" flights to LAS from either London airport, and that is US Airways out of LGW. However, considering the US Airways "direct" flight involves a change of gauge at PHL, many connecting flights are just as competitive and convenient out of both London airports.
If you are meaning "nonstop" flights, there are none offered by scheduled carriers.
"To he who only has a hammer in his toolbelt, every problem looks like a nail."
UAL777UK From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3355 posts, RR: 1 Reply 14, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4928 times:
Quoting Zvezda (Reply 8): United have no feed of their own at LAS. They would have to rely on code-shares with US, which now have a hub at LAS as a result of acquiring America West. At LHR, UA also have no feed of their own and would have to rely on feed from Star Alliance carriers, some of whom refuse to code share with UA because of the disparity in service standards.
Given that LAS is a leisure market with little business traffic, I'm not at all sure it would work.
Sorry thats not correct, United, whilst it does not have the feed of a hub city, it has loads of connections on TED out of LAS to SFO, LAX, DEN and if you really want to go back on yourself, ORD and IAD.
I would say UA could easily work a 767 into LAS from LHR, post Bermuda II albeit that I doubt F would be needed only an upgraded J product and Y.
Having been in LAS over two weeks ago connecting through SFO on UA, let me tell you they have a busy operation down there, flights on both TED legs where packed.
IFEMaster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 15, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4912 times:
Quoting Alphascan (Reply 13): There is only one carrier that offers "direct" flights to LAS from either London airport, and that is US Airways out of LGW. However, considering the US Airways "direct" flight involves a change of gauge at PHL, many connecting flights are just as competitive and convenient out of both London airports.
If you are meaning "nonstop" flights, there are none offered by scheduled carriers.
That's inaccurate. VS offer a direct, non-stop service LGW - LAS.
Alphascan From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 936 posts, RR: 14 Reply 16, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4849 times:
Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 15): VS offer a direct, non-stop service LGW - LAS.
I stand corrected. Virgin does have a "nonstop" (VS 043/044) but I didn't see any "direct" flights offered.
"To he who only has a hammer in his toolbelt, every problem looks like a nail."
Zvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 66 Reply 17, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4819 times:
Quoting UAL777UK (Reply 14):
Sorry thats not correct, United, whilst it does not have the feed of a hub city, it has loads of connections on TED out of LAS to SFO, LAX, DEN and if you really want to go back on yourself, ORD and IAD.
UA have nonstop service to LHR from SFO and LAX, so changing planes at LAS is not an advantage for either UA or for passengers. From SFO and DEN, LAS is way out of the way as place to connect on the way to LHR, compared to ORD or even IAD.
Quoting UAL777UK (Reply 14):
I would say UA could easily work a 767 into LAS from LHR, post Bermuda II albeit that I doubt F would be needed only an upgraded J product and Y.
B767 CASM is too high for a leisure market like LAS. You expect UA to use the MD configuration LAS-LHR?
Cadet57 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 9081 posts, RR: 34 Reply 19, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 4599 times:
Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 4): it's an agreement signed in the 1970's allowing only 6 airlines to fly between the UK and the US.
In the UK these are:
VS and BA
in the US these are:
(TWA and PA) replaced by AA and UA.
Uhhh, what? idk what you are taling about because US air flies quite a few flights to LGW from PHL and CLT
N1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 25852 posts, RR: 80 Reply 21, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 4586 times:
Would be pretty much impossible for them to make it work.
Quoting Zvezda (Reply 8): They would have to rely on code-shares with US, which now have a hub at LAS as a result of acquiring America West.
America West acquired USAirways, not the other way around. In any case, given where most of that feed would be coming from, United may as well fly them on their own metal from there and connect through LAX
Quoting LAX2IADandORD (Reply 11): I believe Air New Zealand flies LAX to LHR which can be purchased as a separate leg (as it is a continuation of their flights from New Zealand onto England).
Yes, they can and do
Quoting UAL777UK (Reply 14): Having been in LAS over two weeks ago connecting through SFO on UA, let me tell you they have a busy operation down there, flights on both TED legs where packed.
That is because you were at a United hub city getting on an O&D heavy flight, not because everyone was connecting from London
Quoting Zvezda (Reply 17): B767 CASM is too high for a leisure market like LAS. You expect UA to use the MD configuration LAS-LHR?
DE uses a 763ER on FRA-LAS all the time. The issue is UA's lack of feed and presence in the market. LAS is all Ted now and focused on O&D. The people flying United to Las Vegas are not people from there, they are people going there
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
StarGoldLHR From Heard and McDonald Islands, joined Feb 2004, 1529 posts, RR: 1 Reply 23, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4461 times:
Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 19): Uhhh, what? idk what you are taling about because US air flies quite a few flights to LGW from PHL and CLT
But not from LHR they dont...
So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
If arrogance is knowing the routes then I apologise
25 StarGoldLHR: Personally I dont get the LHR obsession the Americans have. LGW doesnt have the crowds, you can get there just as quick from central london, has lower
26 Sllevin: As others have said, LAS is not a uber-high yield O&D market. It also faces the issue of density altitude during the summer, which can restrict the wi
27 Cadet57: right but you said that there are only 6 airlines that can fly between the us and the UK..
28 IFEMaster: Knowing the routes isn't arrogant. Assuming someone hasn't read the thread title is. Any idea what the VS load is like? And don't they vary the frequ
29 Iowaman: Don't forget the FAT and PSP UA EMB-120 flights to LAS. Even if loads are great, LAS yields are generally poor.
31 Planetime: In the days of open skies suprising that US and Uk who always potray themselves as one is so childish in the aviation agreement between them.
32 Wdleiser: OOOOO please wait til tomorrow when I am done with my Senior Research paper on the Bermuda II treaty and why I believe it should be done away with. I
33 QXatFAT: Yes...thank you! The great America West acquired USAirways. Thank you America West
34 Siromega: Given that VS has added more flights over the past few years, I would assume the loads are excellent. FWIW, when I'm down on The Strip I do run into
35 Vegasplanes: As N1120A Said: Seems like the yields are not bad either, I priced out a flight a few months back for a May trip, VS was a couple hundred more than w
36 Hawk44: I dunno I was just in LAS and seams to me that conventions are kind of a big deal. More then half the people around me waiting at the security check
37 UAL777UK: Well if you have any sense you will avoid LGW at peak times like the plague otherwise assuming your traveling by car/coach you will be stuck on the M
38 N1120A: You ever check out that hole most of the US carriers and the charters go from? Makes LHR look like BUR Actually, from Europe, LAS is a high yield des
39 BCAL: Bermuda II is an agreement that in simple terms imposes a limit on the number of entry points ('gateways') in the USA that can be served from London,
40 Myt332: Plus the North West as in Manchester. For shame on you.
41 N1120A: Ah yes, where you must fend off pikey pub owners and chavs in liquor stores
42 BNE: I found this article written by Sean Mendis on a.net about 3 years ago and thought it was the best explanation of Bermuda II. You might find it with a
43 747uk: Average load factor for the month of April is 93% (LGW-LAS) which is excellent as it does not include last minute bookings so that load can only go u
44 StarGoldLHR: Dzien Dobry, Between LHR and the US I meant to add. besides it's 7 anyway... oh whatever. I also said I wasnt an expert
45 StarGoldLHR: My company does it's conventions in Las Vegas.. Usually 90% are from the US 10% from across the globe... and in that 10% it equates to 90% of the des
46 StarGoldLHR: Gatwick actually has the best rail connections of all the Airports in the country Central London, All of the south east, Access to all of the north.
47 StarGoldLHR: At least the chavs are in the bars not protesting on the street and shutting down the country. anyway how is this relevent to the topic ? ah yes.. Ho
48 UAL777UK: Hmm, are you sure?.........How does one get on a train at Gatwick and say for instance go to Birmingham.....Yes thats right, you would need to go int
49 IFEMaster: And it's becoming a bigger deal. There are a lot of businesses moving divisions, large operations, or even the entire headquarters to some of the gro
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