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Lloyd Aéreo Boliviano Ordered To Return Its 767s  
User currently offlineLuisca From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 6236 times:

A US court has ruled that by march 29th 2 Boeing 767-300s that were leased from Pegasus aviation should be returned because the airline has not payed 26 million dollars in fees. The airline has cancelled the Madrid and Miami flights because of this.

The transport minister of Bolivia has warned that the airline may collapse becomes these routes represent more than 50% of LAB's revenue.

La Prensa in Spanish Only

81 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLeoDF From Mexico, joined Aug 1999, 359 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 6221 times:

Ohh no! So the rumours were true! LAB has got deep financial troubles! Anyway they can appeal to this decision and continue operating their 767's?

If LAB does collapse, there go 81 years of history! And Aerosur, well, they are not merely what LAB is. Damn the bad administration at LAB!!

Surely 123 has got further info that I would gladly like to read!

A. De Leo
"PiloT"



Lloyd Aereo Boliviano
User currently offlineJuventus From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2835 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 6191 times:

WOW, these news surely suck for LAB. What now, fly to the US with 727s and a tech-stop somewhere? Without the MIA route, they are going to be hurting. I hope things workout for LAB.

Why is it that only AA flies to Bolivia? Without LAB, could DL support a flight from ATL or CO from IAH?


User currently offlineMarcoT From Italy, joined May 2005, 253 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 6182 times:

Quoting LeoDF (Reply 1):
Ohh no! So the rumours were true! LAB has got deep financial troubles! Anyway they can appeal to this decision and continue operating their 767's?

Maybe the equivalent, if any, of an US chapter 11 procedure?

Anyway this confirm, on a different scale, the old saying: if you owe 1000$ to the bank, you're in trouble; if you owe 1,000,000$ to the bank, it's the bank that's in trouble...



Too short space for my favorite hopelessly long winded one liner
User currently offlineLuisde8cd From Pitcairn Islands, joined Aug 2004, 2570 posts, RR: 31
Reply 4, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 6152 times:

At least one of the 763s will go to Santa Barbara AL in Venezuela. Pegasus was the lessor of Santa Barbara ex-DC10s. When the DC10s were banned by the authorities because of constant tech diversions, they were returned to Pegasus and Pegasus told Santa Barbara that they would replace them with LAB's 767s.

Santa Barbara currently wet-leases a pair of 763s from Icelandair for their MAD and TFN routes but one of them (TF-FIA) will undergo heavy maintenance between early-april and mid-may. THis makes sense that the 763s (at least one of them) will fly VVI-CCS to get a Santa Barbara livery.

Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis

[Edited 2006-03-27 16:58:07]

User currently offlineRICARIZA From Colombia, joined Apr 2005, 2382 posts, RR: 26
Reply 5, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 6082 times:

That is really bad. I hope LAB finds a way to get around this issue. It will suck for Latin American aviation to lose LAB.


I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
User currently offlineLuisca From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 6060 times:

Quoting Juventus (Reply 2):
WOW, these news surely suck for LAB. What now, fly to the US with 727s and a tech-stop somewhere? Without the MIA route, they are going to be hurting. I hope things workout for LAB.

Why is it that only AA flies to Bolivia? Without LAB, could DL support a flight from ATL or CO from IAH?

They used to fly to MIA via PTY, they even had 5th freedom rights, maybe they will do this again. The MIA route is the cash cow for LAB, without it, there can be no LAB.

BTW If they do start MIA-PTY again I will be happy, ever since LB, US and IB left the route CM and AA are murdering us with the fares!

Quoting RICARIZA (Reply 5):
That is really bad. I hope LAB finds a way to get around this issue. It will suck for Latin American aviation to lose LAB

They can not get around it, the minute that those planes touch foreign soil on Wednesday they will be seized

IF LB collapses I think JJ, RG, LA and CM will al fight for a piece of the pie on the routes to the US, with the maniac that is running Bolivia now loads on flights to the US are at record levels from Bolivia (especially from Santa Cruz)

[Edited 2006-03-27 17:25:36]

User currently offlineRAFVC10 From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 1980 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5899 times:
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Could LB return to lease the 310's???


El dia que los gilipollas vuelen, no podremos ver la luz del sol!
User currently offlineDesertAir From Mexico, joined Jan 2006, 1457 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5836 times:

I lived in Bolivia for 6 months in 1990. LAB was a great airline. I recall flying from MIA to La Paz on a 727 with stops in Caracas and Manous, Brazil. They need larger craft for their longer international markets. I am sorry to hear they are in crisis.

User currently offlineLindy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5826 times:

LAB is flying everyother night to IAD using 727 in LAB colors, but most of the time its Falcon Air aircraft.

Rafal


User currently offlineA342 From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 4680 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 5688 times:

Quoting RAFVC10 (Reply 7):
Could LB return to lease the 310's???

There are next to none available on the market.



Exceptions confirm the rule.
User currently offlineRICARIZA From Colombia, joined Apr 2005, 2382 posts, RR: 26
Reply 11, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 5660 times:

Quoting Luisca (Reply 6):
They can not get around it

Well, apealing the decision or paying the fees will solve the crisis..

Quoting Luisca (Reply 6):
the minute that those planes touch foreign soil on Wednesday they will be seized

Any foreign soil or just the US' soil? If so, why?



I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
User currently offlineHBIHLtoEZE From Switzerland, joined Aug 2004, 281 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5597 times:

Oh no,

please LAB, stay alive, they must not go under - they are the last airline that has kept the spirit of the first jet generation alive.

I flew them two years ago, Cochabamba - Sucre and La Paz - Cuzco on their worldrecord 727-78 CP-1223, 39 years and 08 months old (it was taken out of service by now):


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Snorre - VIP Vienna International Planespotters




Last September I spotted one of their newly painted 727-200s with winglets in MIA - as one of their 67s had been damaged the week before by Katrina (blown into the airport fence I believe)

Would it be possible to fly a 727 economically for the LPB-VVI-MAO-(CUN-MEX?)-MIA run these days?

Cheers, saludos



Our battered suitcases were piled on the sidewalk again; we had longer ways to go. But no matter, the road is life.
User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5613 posts, RR: 51
Reply 13, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5502 times:

If this does go through with any delay or appeal, would someone confirm that they have certainly departed LPB or VVI?

BN747



"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlineLuisca From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 5452 times:

Quoting RICARIZA (Reply 11):
Quoting Luisca (Reply 6):
They can not get around it

Well, apealing the decision or paying the fees will solve the crisis..

Quoting Luisca (Reply 6):
the minute that those planes touch foreign soil on Wednesday they will be seized

Any foreign soil or just the US' soil? If so, why?

They would have to pay back 26 million dollars plus legal fees and penalties, and then Pegasus still has the right to refuse continuing the lease. Basically LAB voided the contract by not paying their leasing fees.
Also, planes are seized in third countries all the time, i think it can even be seized in Bolivia, a plane that cant fly anywhere except Bolivia is useless for LAB and they will just be accumulating more and more debt if they don't return the plane.

An appeal would take a lot of time and even that cant stop the seizing of the plane. LAB didn't pay, what is there to appeal? A contract is a contract, the US court will not let LAB keep the plane out of sympathy.


User currently offlineGhost77 From Mexico, joined Mar 2000, 5214 posts, RR: 51
Reply 15, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 5430 times:

Stay LB stay!!! Very unfortunately, since the last strike LB has several delayed flights and I think they aren't doing that right. Hopefully they stay!

ghost77 APM



Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
User currently offlineRawch From Switzerland, joined Feb 2006, 17 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 5260 times:

There was another article this morning from "La Prensa" regards LAB. Here is the link, but unfortunately it is only in Spanish:

http://www.prensa.com/hoy/negocios/547464.html

It basically states that there is maneuvering between the workers, the administration & the state to try and save the company. There is a labor dispute as well between current management & the workers, plus it states that the airline has a debt of roughly 160 million dollars. The government is trying to mediate, but there is bad blood between the parties involved.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32599 posts, RR: 72
Reply 17, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 5211 times:

Quoting Juventus (Reply 2):
Why is it that only AA flies to Bolivia? Without LAB, could DL support a flight from ATL or CO from IAH?

Because a good 95%+ of US-Bolivia traffic is to/from Miami and Washington, D.C.



a.
User currently offlineLVZXV From Gabon, joined Mar 2004, 2041 posts, RR: 37
Reply 18, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 5179 times:

I am very sad to read this, LAB is just one of those airlines that is hard not to be fond of. They seem to have been doing a fair amount of downsizing in the last couple of years:


  • A310-300 CP-2232
  • B727-100 CP-1223
  • B727-200A CP-2427
  • B727-200F CP-2428 (opb. LAB Cargo)
  • B727-200A CP-2463 (opb. Ecuatoriana)
  • B737-300 CP-2391
  • F27-200 CP-2013

    That's about half the fleet. The make-up of LAB's fleet after the departure of the 767s would be:

    1 x B727-100 (CP-861)
    7 x B727-200A (CP-1276/1366/1367/2324/2429/2455/2464)
    1 x B737-300 (CP-2013)

    I wish LAB the best of luck; without the 767s, they'll be needing it.  pray 

    Saludos,

    ZXV



How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
User currently offlineGeorgiabill From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 577 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 5172 times:
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Very sad news indeed. I hope a solution can be found. LAB was a good airline with good people working there.

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32599 posts, RR: 72
Reply 20, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 5081 times:

From what some Bolivian press is reporting, Madrid and Washington will be suspended, while Miami will continue, albeit most likely with a 727 via Panama City at reduced frequency. Good thing TAM is coming back to MIA-MAO.


a.
User currently offlineRAFVC10 From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 1980 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 5035 times:
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Well, as I can know LB flights from MAD to VVI were always fully booked and the first and the only way to arrive to Bolivia with direct flight from Europe.

Could AR occupy this emptiness?? AR flights from EZE to VVI are well connected with those that come from Europe.



El dia que los gilipollas vuelen, no podremos ver la luz del sol!
User currently offlineAero From Germany, joined Oct 2004, 181 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4972 times:

That would be a lost for the entire Americas.

LAB is AFAIK a state-run airline, i assume the government is not able to place any guarantees for its carrier.

I was thinking that Pegasus could go to court and even retain the 727 fleet arriving at the US, if LAB does not pay the debt. That would be a disaster.

Giving the 767 back is one thing (losing revenues on the route it serves), paying thier debt is another.

I hope we can see LAB flying many many years more.

Rgds,
Aero



LAN...the star of the Latin American skies
User currently offlineMGA From Nicaragua, joined Mar 2005, 726 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4938 times:

Damn, had no clue things were that bad down there.... Hope everything works out ok... Already saw Vasp and Ecuatoriana go down, dont need anothe one in the hole...

Here is an article in English about their financial situation:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/fn/3751008.html

MGA



Que viva el guaro, el dinero y los aviones!!!
User currently offlineAero From Germany, joined Oct 2004, 181 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4914 times:

Correction:

Quoting Aero (Reply 22):
LAB is AFAIK a state-run airline,

LAB was sold from the government to the private hand time ago.
I have read that the government is not willing to "inject" any money in LAB.

http://www.prensaescrita.com/diarios...BOL&pagina=http://www.la-razon.com
(Spanish only)



LAN...the star of the Latin American skies
25 Latinplane : I hope that Evo Morales agrees to nationalize the airline. Otherwise, AeroSur will just take the position of Bolivia's national carrier. I saw one of
26 Luisca : I have a question, if I buy a ticket MIA-PTY with LAB and the airline collapses can I get my money back if I buy it with a US Visa Card or Amex? They
27 Post contains images Boeing747_600 : Jeez ... Would it kill those Pegasus chaps to leave LAB alone for a few years so that the airline can actually MAKE some money and then pay their dues
28 Arcano : Sad news indeed, let's hope a gorgeous airline as LAB can survive this I doubt LA or AR can be real options for Bolivia to Europe or USA. SCL and EZE
29 Luisca : Are you for real? This is the stupidest comment i have read in a long time. LAB signed a contract, LAB agreed to pay x amount of money to Pegasus eve
30 AR385 : I flew LAB, MIA-MAO-VVI in 1998 in C on their A-310's The service sucked, and a lot of passengers from Y started moving to C after takeoff from MIA. C
31 RCS763AV : I dont want to see LAB die. South American aviation will be very boring if this trend continues, dominated by LA, JJ, AV and AR (if RG dissapears)...i
32 Post contains images Luisde8cd : I wouldn't do it. I've just read a quote from LAB's finance chief saying that they don't have the money to refund pax's money, which in my opinion is
33 RICARIZA : That phrase synthesizes everything. I agree with you.
34 Post contains links TACAA320 : Still bad news for LAB. Up-dated bad news for LAB [sorry, only in Spanish] http://www.prensaescrita.com/diarios...&pagina=http://www.laprensa.com.bo "
35 2travel2know : If LB situation gets worse, It'll be awful to see them go. AA leaves ASU, LB has problems with its MIA route because of the leased B767... Where's boo
36 EddieDude : What is the issue at stake that motivated Evo Morales to accuse the Supreme Court (Tribunal Constitucional) of accepting bribes from Asbún (or someth
37 Aero : This is of course a Chance for JJ, LA, CM, AR, LP, LX and AV..but i´d still prefer to see LAB flying around. Remember AeroPerú, Viasa, LAP, etc..?
38 RICARIZA : Hola Eduardo. Question: Why when talking about airports in Bolivia everyone refers to VVI instead of LPB ?[Edited 2006-03-29 22:49:34]
39 Boeing747_600 : Big Deal. All they have to do is work out a negotiated payment plan in court.
40 757MDE : I don't think there's enough traffic from Colombia to Bolivia nor connections to sustain the route baring in mind LAB flies to BOG still (in a very w
41 Post contains images 123 : Hello here I am! I was lost because (almost) all what a.netters mentioned in this forum is regretably true. LB is going down the drain in ever faster
42 Post contains images Legacy135 : One of the main problems with LPB is it's elevation of 13'313ft. Many modern airliners are just not certified to operate at airports of such an eleva
43 LipeGIG : JJ can use Tam Mercosur to fly ASU-VVI-MAO, but they do not have frequencies to MAD (in Brazil, only Varig with 7 and BRA with 10 got the frequencies
44 123 : Dont´forget that in the past - a few years ago - PZ requested open skies to and within Bolivia - rejected due to LB's strength. Respecting LB and th
45 Starrion : LAB has how many employee's? 2200? LVZXV said they have eight 727's, one 737 and (for the moment) two 767's. 200 people per aircraft? Delta, my favori
46 EddieDude : Is BRA using them? Is there any chance JJ can get frequencies to fly to MAD in the near future or does the bilateral agreement between Brazil and Spa
47 Summa767 : Hello there! Thanks for his interesting fact! But does it apply to the Embraers 135/145 only? I ask, as I know that TAME of Ecuador will be getting s
48 Arcano : It hurts when reading, doesn't it? BTW, isn't Sucre the actual legal capital of Bolivia?
49 2travel2know : VVI-BEL-SID-MAD on a B727-200 or B737-300 ?! JJ isn't that lucky with MAO, CM is starting MAO-PTY daily soon with a GOL code share...
50 757MDE : I don't know about the 170 but that 8500 feet figure is only for 135/145, the 170 is a whole new development, still, I don't know the 170 limit. Tame
51 SOUTHAMERICA : You answered your own doubt with the final comment Andres. LAB's schedules to Bogota and Caracas appear as weird at first glance because of very odd
52 Post contains images Legacy135 : Yes, this is ERJ, I don't know what the limitation for the E-Jet is, but I doubt that it could go as high as La Paz. As Tame bought it I am pretty co
53 757MDE : Satena flew to Colombian soccer team to Quito in an ERJ-145 to a match against Ecuador... now I'm wondering what sort of alarms should have been trigg
54 RICARIZA : Thanks for the answers. Learning more and more every day!
55 Post contains links and images TACAA320 : According to Evo Morales, AeroSur is an option for LAB... "Evo busca salidas para el LAB; una opción es AeroSur En una reunión en el Senado con ejec
56 Post contains images TACAA320 : They will need more than good luck. They will need a lot of money. Not easy to get it at this time. It does
57 MAH4546 : And your point is? PTY is out of the way to make a connection to MIA, which is the largest international O&D market for Manaus.
58 Post contains images Legacy135 : I do not doubt this and I am pretty sure, they got the increased operational altitude for. Finally the situation I was telling you about was before t
59 Post contains links TACAA320 : Asbún, the President of LAB is under arrest and the Judge ruled a bail of Bs. 40.000,00 [at exchange rate of Bs.8,07 per US$1,00, is the ridiculous a
60 RAFVC10 : And what about to use the newest aircraft of Conviasa (342) to do VVI-CCS-MAD flights??? I know it could be souns as a crazy idea but an alliance betw
61 Post contains links MGA : Wow, the LAB employees have taken over the airports... This is getting pretty bad... http://www.laprensa.com.ni/archivo/2...0/noticias/ultimahora/1083
62 Luisde8cd : The pax originating in CCS are too many to leave enough empty seats for the extra leg down south to VVI. The A342 offers the exact capacity needed fo
63 Post contains links 123 : Sucre (SRE) is the only city with the title "capital". La Paz (LPB) is the Governmental site (administrative-legislative). Indeed. The situation this
64 Legacy135 : This is so sad. It brings me the memories back of those days, we lost our good old Swissair, with more than 5000 employees losing their jobs. Now Bol
65 123 : That is true, however the grounding of Swissair went peacefully and nowadays many of the 5000 employees have somehow found a new job under LH managem
66 AR385 : I am a pragmatic economist but in this case I won't behave like one. LB is an institution within Bolivia and it cannot be allowed to wither into the w
67 123 : To this I can only reply: "??" Without doubt at all. However, there are only a few with money to do so, and even less with the strength to go against
68 LipeGIG : PZ made a very strong network from ASU with a little number of planes, Bolivia-Brazil flights will be a strong addition to their network. BRA is not
69 Hardiwv : Agree. CM cannot compete with TAM on the MAO-MIA route, simply because TAM has a strong FF base + the advantage of a nonstop service. Rgs,
70 757MDE : As a side note I just saw in the news that Santa Fe soccer team is stranded at VVI as they were in Bolivia for a Copa Libertadores match (South Americ
71 Airportmanager : True, TAME's EMBRAERS I think have the most powerfukllk engines for takeoffs from the most impresive airports. As a mattter a fact, they will be taki
72 Post contains links and images LeoDF : So, if I don't misunderstand what 123 is saying, this was an accident waiting to happen? If since 2001, when LAB was privatized, everything had been m
73 SOUTHAMERICA : Edit: Accidentally posted in the wrong thread. Apologies.[Edited 2006-03-31 23:34:27]
74 AR385 : What I meant was than an intelliegent Evo would bail out LB, just so as not to have the current lovely riots at VVI and LPB. If Evo can get out of th
75 Arcano : What is behind this statement? Although as an economist I don't believe in neationaliziing companies as a way of saving them, how some government man
76 Civilav : AR385, Without venturing into heavy political heavy waters or issues of "intelligence vs. stupidity", the point here is that the losses of LAB are to
77 CityAirline : I hope this will turn out good in some way. It's a shame the MAD-VVI will be suspended, as the others said, its the only n/s flight to Europe from Bol
78 BN747 : So now that the deadline has passed... does anyone know what the latest is? Air the planes gone? Still in VVI or LPB? Where are the two 763s? BN747
79 Post contains links TACAA320 : http://www.prensaescrita.com/diarios...&pagina=http://www.laprensa.com.bo
80 Post contains links RICARIZA : The articles show some kind of intervention in order to save LAB. They don't mention anything about the 767s though. They are proposing to the pension
81 LVZXV : Passing through GIG the other day (April 1 to be exact), I saw one of LAB's 767s from afar parked amid the cluster of Varig aircraft dumped outside t
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