"Boeing is in final negotiations with Emirates for up to 50 787-10s, which will become the fourth model of the fastest-selling twin-aisle aircraft in history."
NASOCEANA From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 291 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 10870 times:
Good news for EK!
What is EK going to do with 93 aircraft in the 8,000 nm range?
(50 B787 & 43 A380)
Great news for Boeing!
I think SQ or BA will be the next to announce an order!
Planetime From Singapore, joined Mar 2006, 719 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 10840 times:
EK has been pushing Boeing to develop the 787-10 for a long time. And them being a launch customer for it makes sense. Also Boeing did a smart move by them cannabalizing the 777-200ER than let Airbus doing it.
CWFan From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 83 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 10814 times:
That's pretty amazing. If EK does order the 787-10, who else will, do you think? Is this going to be a one-airline plane?
And EK's claim that the -10 would have 80% MORE cargo space than an A380 almost defies belief. How's that possible? Jesus.
Cruiser From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 998 posts, RR: 8 Reply 5, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 10798 times:
Quoting CWFan (Reply 4): And EK's claim that the -10 would have 80% MORE cargo space than an A380 almost defies belief. How's that possible? Jesus.
800 people have a lot of luggage
But in reality, since EK held off in Paris from ordering the A359, we have all known that this was a serious possibility. It will be interesting to see which other airlines are interested in it.
James
Leahy on Per Seat Costs: "Have you seen the B-2 fly-by at almost US$1bn a copy? It has only 2 seats!"
NASOCEANA From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 291 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 10736 times:
Quoting Planetime (Reply 3): Also Boeing did a smart move by them cannabalizing the 777-200ER than let Airbus doing it.
Absolutely, this is called Erosion. And it is always better for a business to erode their own product than to let a competitor do it for them!
It may eat into the sales of the B777-200ER, however if you look at the larger picture the combination of both the B777-200ER and the B787-10 will add more value to the company as a whole!
In return Boeing is "Maximizing Shareholder Wealth"
Kaitak744 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 2208 posts, RR: 3 Reply 7, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 10707 times:
Quoting NASOCEANA (Reply 1): What is EK going to do with 93 aircraft in the 8,000 nm range?
(50 B787 & 43 A380)
Well, I have a better question. What is EK going to do with so many aircraft?
That's like 50 or so new 777s.
50 787-10s.
possibly 20 787-9s to replace A330s.
43 A380s.
plus all those extra A340-500/-600s which don't have a definite future.
That's ALOT of aircraft.
Quoting Cruiser (Reply 5): 800 people have a lot of luggage
Well, one thing about the A380, is IT DOES HAVE LESS CARGO SPACE. Its obvious simple physics, regardless of what Airbus says. You have 2 passenger decks (one the size of a 773, the other the size of an A333) and one cargo deck (about the size of a 773). So, if you calculate how much baggage the people on an A330-300 have, and subtract it from the cargo space of a 777-300, you get the total cargo space of the A380, which is alot less than any 400+ seater I have ever seen.
One advantage for the 747-8, its cargo deck is almost equivalent to the passenger deck, which is a good ratio.
Jrlander From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 1097 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 10691 times:
I think airlines like Delta, if it survives, might be a good candidate for the 787-10. Delta is an airline which could order large numbersof 787's to replace an aging 767 fleet. They need a larger plane, a role currently filled by the 777-200ER, but a 787-10 operated alongside 787-8's and 787-9's would be much more efficient than a large number of 787's and 8 777's. NWA might also be a good possibility, if they survive. I could also see Continental making a similar decision. That's just in the US! Other airlines which need a larger plane, but can't afford the costs of adding an entirely new family to the fleet will also look seriously at this plane.
CX747 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4385 posts, RR: 5 Reply 9, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 10635 times:
If EK orders the 787-10, I think that the older A330 and 777s will be replaced by it. This will allow EK to operate 1 aircraft and cockpit type where 2 used to be needed. Overall, I think that the future will see the majority of the A330 and 777-200ER fleet being replaced by the 787. I do not see the A340s lasting that long either. IF the 787 turns out to be as good as predicted, then the A340s will be replaced by it also. In my opinion the future EK fleet will look like this
787-10 and other variants.
777-300ER
A380-800
747-400F
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
AirFrnt From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2775 posts, RR: 43 Reply 10, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 10548 times:
Good for EK, but they asked Boeing to develop the 787-10. That kind of put them on the spot for having to buy it once it was actually developed. I remain skeptical of EK's business plane, but I think it is much more do-able with 787 sized aircraft then 777/380 as the backbone for their fleet.
Jacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 61 Reply 11, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 10519 times:
Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 7): Well, I have a better question. What is EK going to do with so many aircraft?
That's like 50 or so new 777s.
50 787-10s.
possibly 20 787-9s to replace A330s.
43 A380s.
plus all those extra A340-500/-600s which don't have a definite future.
That's ALOT of aircraft.
Quoting CX747 (Reply 9): . Overall, I think that the future will see the majority of the A330 and 777-200ER fleet being replaced by the 787.
that's what it seems as if they are going to be doing, certainly replacing the older 777's with the 787-10.
Quoting CX747 (Reply 9): 787-10 and other variants.
777-300ER
A380-800
747-400F
add the 777-200LR, the 777-200F and add the two A380F's...
Airwave From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 1117 posts, RR: 3 Reply 12, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 10465 times:
Well that was fast, lol. We only just heard from Boeing that they were going to go ahead with the -10, and we turn around and find out that they're in final negotiations. I'm surprised they wedged them so close together; I thought it was better to spread it out and extend the PR hold.
Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 7): Well, I have a better question. What is EK going to do with so many aircraft?
That's like 50 or so new 777s.
50 787-10s.
possibly 20 787-9s to replace A330s.
43 A380s.
plus all those extra A340-500/-600s which don't have a definite future.
That's ALOT of aircraft.
Note:
Quoting CX747 (Reply 9): Overall, I think that the future will see the majority of the A330 and 777-200ER fleet being replaced by the 787.
That makes the most sense, especially a decade out from now. But EK'll still have a pretty sizable fleet mix. And who knows what they'll decide to do next, lol.
Quoting NASOCEANA (Reply 6): Absolutely, this is called Erosion. And it is always better for a business to erode their own product than to let a competitor do it for them!
I thought that was called "planned obsolescence"? Or, no, maybe "cannibalism"? Or are they one and the same? Lol.
At any rate, congrats to Boeing and EK--and all you BA shareholders, lol. This should help send the price up even higher.
Airwave
When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.
Airwave From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 1117 posts, RR: 3 Reply 13, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 10451 times:
Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 11): Quoting CX747 (Reply 9):
. Overall, I think that the future will see the majority of the A330 and 777-200ER fleet being replaced by the 787.
that's what it seems as if they are going to be doing, certainly replacing the older 777's with the 787-10.
Erp. You beat me to it, haha. Did the same quoting, too. Now people will think I'm just a copy cat. Lol.
Airwave
When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.
Kaniksu From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 202 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 10451 times:
Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 10): Good for EK, but they asked Boeing to develop the 787-10. That kind of put them on the spot for having to buy it once it was actually developed
Isn't that what they wanted? Wouldn't that be like ordering a meal at a restaurant and then when it arrives telling them you no longer want to eat it or pay for it? I don't understand why EK would want to do that?
PlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4543 posts, RR: 28 Reply 15, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 10387 times:
Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 10): Good for EK, but they asked Boeing to develop the 787-10. That kind of put them on the spot for having to buy it once it was actually developed.
Quoting Kaniksu (Reply 14): Isn't that what they wanted? Wouldn't that be like ordering a meal at a restaurant and then when it arrives telling them you no longer want to eat it or pay for it? I don't understand why EK would want to do that?
I disagree. "This is what we want - now see if you can do it" is a lot different than "If you do it, we will sign". While EK may be ready to sign, they may also be waiting to see what Airbus comes back with again. Better A350 design? Better price? Etc.
Just because Boeing has relented doesn't mean that EK wouldn't still consider an Airbus alternative if it presented itself. IMHO, of course.
Zvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 65 Reply 16, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 10354 times:
Quoting CWFan (Reply 4): EK's claim that the -10 would have 80% MORE cargo space than an A380 almost defies belief. How's that possible?
1. Because the WhaleJet has such a large cross-section, the portion which tapers at the nose and tail is much longer than on an aircraft like the B787. The tapered part can't accommodate containers.
2. The WhaleJet's undercarriage consumes more than a usual length of the lower deck.
Taken together, this means that (running from the nose aft toward the tail) the WhaleJet's forward cargo hold starts later and ends sooner, then the after cargo hold starts later and ends sooner.
Zvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 65 Reply 18, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 10309 times:
Quoting Lordanmol (Reply 17): Boeing seriously needs someone else to order the 787-10
Boeing only announced yesterday, informally, that they will build the B787-10. Have a little patience. I'm sure we'll see orders other than just EK before the end of the year. Anyway, it's 6.5 years from EIS.
Jacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 61 Reply 19, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 10309 times:
Quoting Airwave (Reply 13): Erp. You beat me to it, haha. Did the same quoting, too. Now people will think I'm just a copy cat. Lol.
lol..don't worry, I've been pipped to the most on many occasions...
by they way, welcome to A.net..........
Quoting Lordanmol (Reply 17): But Boeing seriously needs someone else to order the 787-10
" It is understood that Singapore Airlines and British Airways are among the carriers keen on the version."
Jet-lagged From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 850 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 10108 times:
Did I miss something? Other than the first line of this article, is any information quoted from Boeing, or other sources, that EK is actually going to place an order?
I'm questioning ATW, not the thread starter.
Not saying it won't happen, but how does ATW know this? ATW were on the same call as many other media, but nobody else has been so definitive . . . .
Astuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 9142 posts, RR: 96 Reply 23, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 10056 times:
Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 15): While EK may be ready to sign, they may also be waiting to see what Airbus comes back with again. Better A350 design? Better price? Etc.
Quoting Jet-lagged (Reply 22): is any information quoted from Boeing, or other sources, that EK is actually going to place an order?
That was my question too. I think it's great that Boeing are commiting to the 787-10 (it sounds like a seriously capable aircraft ), and it wouldn't surprise me if EK did order, but nothing that I read in the article said that EK had actually made the commitment to the 787-10.
Will EK wait and see what Airbus do with the A359HGW?
Pavlin From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 24, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 10031 times:
Anyway 777-200ER is more than 10 years old and is not selling so well. Like 747-100/200/300 it will need a succesor
25 MrComet: ATW is jumping the gun big time. Here is the same from another account: "One potential customer is Emirates, the Middle Eastern airline that has been
26 Keesje: from the ATW article: Mike Bair, VP and GM of the 787 program, told media yesterday in a global conference call, "It's not a matter of if but when we
27 Leelaw: I have to agree with Keesje on this one. Concluding that Boeing and EK are in final negotiations based on the gravamen of Mr. Bair's comments does re
28 Tifoso: Well, later in the article, Geoff Thomas does use some information from EK sources. So, his interaction with EK staff may have contributed to making t
29 OyKIE: The article says 80% more REVENUE cargo space than the A390. That does not mean that the cargospace it self is 80% larger than on the A380. I agree w
30 Leelaw: Then, IMO, he should lead-off the article by writing something like: Sources at EK report/confirm that the airline is in final negotiations... Howeve
31 Zvezda: No one has suggested that GT concludes this based on Bair's comments. I'm quite sure GT has sources in EK, including Tim Clark.
32 Georgiabill: Good news for both Boeing and Emirates. Perhaps Oman Air will order the 787-10. Most likely carrier after Emirates to order the 787-10 would be Singap
33 Mptpa: I would guess and say EK, SQ, LH, QF, AC, CO, NW even JL and NH as candadates for 787-10. The carriers that have ordered 787-8/9 have a truckload of o
34 Leelaw: Oddly, I'm agreeing with Keesje and at odds with Zvezda this time, a strange day indeed. IMO, if the source of the fact that the parties are in "fina
35 Stitch: While it is true there is no hard data on an EK order (or any other order, for that matter), I tend to think Boeing would not launch the 787-10 withou
36 Lumberton: I agree with the skeptics. Don't forget that the aborted ports deal still chafes with the al Maktoums.
38 Planetime: Well EK has shown lots of intrest in this aircraft, and they were the frontrunners in making this happen if it does happen. Well it is Bair's job to
39 Trex8: an a380 carries 38 LD3, a 772 32, a 773 44, the 787-10 is probably somewhere between a 772 and 773 in length so maybe 38 LD3 also in the 787-10 like t
40 FSPilot747: Why would they replace an airplane as new as a 777? Or maybe I'm just getting old. I remember watching one of the first ones being built. Wow that was
41 Zvezda: The B787-10 will carry 44 LD3s. (The B787-3/8 will carry 28 and the B787-9 will carry 36.)
42 BoeingFever777: Fly to new destinations. Hopefully start flying to the N. America other than JFK. I think you mean when! Good news for Boeing, EK and any other carri
43 Jacobin777: SFO, LAX, ORD is high on their list.....I think they will leave IAH for now and codeshare it with CO........
44 Trex8: is that because the wingbox is much smaller than a 777s?
45 Atmx2000: The -10 will be longer because it is designed to seat a similar number of passengers in 8Y as the 772, thus it has more cargo space. But Boeing has i
46 Zvezda: The main reason is lower operating costs. Greater range/payload performance is also sometimes a consideration. That's part of it. The B787-9 is nearl
47 FRAspotter: Does anyone know that average age of the older 777s in the EK fleet? I know 6 years from now when the 787-10 enters service the "older" triple 7's wi
48 Jacobin777: right now, I think the 777-200's are 6-7 years old......they are the same ones since I've been flying on them with EK back in 2000........ here's a l
49 BlueSky1976: The funniest thing to me right now is, when three or four months ago I predicted that EK would most likely launch 787-10, just about everyone flamed m
50 CX747: I think that some of us pay to close attention to the meaning of sentences etc!!!! If we take a step back and see the forest through the trees, we can
51 Lightsaber: This would be interesting if EK does enter the US at other airports. Your list is the logical list. But I see most of these being used to open up mor
52 Keesje: I think the A350-900 is putting the 777/787 long term product planning in the blender. Unscheduled
53 N1786b: Don't you think the 787/777 also put Airbus' long term product planning in the blender?
54 Starrion: Yeah Keesje, forcing Boeing to innovate even faster than planned and challenging their logistics to keep up with all the orders for the 787-10 is a gr
55 Leelaw: It's always nice to see what the party line on Planet Airbus is from a reliable source.
56 OyKIE: According to ATWonline, the 788 and 7810 hav about the same range.
57 Jacobin777: IIRC reading an interview with Emirates CEO, Clark, he was mentioning sending some of the -200LR's to SFO and LAX....but it would seem that the 787-1
58 AviationAddict: Not to sound really ignorant, but what does "dash" mean?
60 AviationAddict: Well what does it mean in the above story?
61 Zvezda: You mean the article quoted in the OP? After 60 replies we're still on topic? There must be something wrong today. In the 3rd paragraph of the articl
62 AviationAddict: What crawled up your butt? I understand that it means B787, I'm not dumb, I figured that out, I just wanted to know if there was any sort of signific
63 DfwRevolution: Excellent observation... The future of the B777 and B787 will be delicious for Boeing!
64 Leelaw: Stylistically it's better to use alternative nomenclature to desribe the same thing multiple times in a single sentence or short paragraph.[Edited 20
65 Zvezda: Sorry, I didn't realize that you already knew the answer to the question you asked. I was just trying to be helpful. No offense was intended.
66 JAL: Great news!!!!!!!!! Can't wait for the announcement!
67 Stitch: As DfwRevolution noted, whatever concoction Boeing is blending seems to be a hit with customers, so I imagine Boeing should send a thank you note to
68 Centrair: EK is pushing the 787-10, but I bet many carriers that currently operate that 772ER would line up to buy it, if it will save on fuel and maintainance.
70 Kaitak744: And LCAL, which are the only ones listed as firm on Boeing site. Also, won't the 787-10 potentially eat 777-300 sales as well? The 787-8 is supposed
71 OyKIE: According to ATWonline today the order are expected to be signed by Farnborough Airshow in July.
72 LAXDESI: Great. One aircraft type covering the 220 to 350 seat range. Boeing should now work on a single aisle, 120-200 seat range, aircraft family.
73 Kaitak744: Well, yes of coarse, but I mean, the 777-300 and -300ER is still pretty new. The 787-10 in a 3-3-3 config could kill that.
74 Zvezda: Boeing have already more than recouped their investment in the B777. If they can make more money selling B787s than B777s, what's wrong with that?
75 Ap305: With Ek seemingly headed for the -10 Airbus needs to widen the the cross section asap- the nine abreast option on the 787 appears to have changed the
76 Ikramerica: For an explanation of the 80% cargo claims, it's spelled out clearly by me in the 787-10 vs. A380 thread. Highlights: After baggage, 787-10 has 34LD3
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