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LaGuardia Rwy 31 Approach Question  
User currently offlineCpos From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 31 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3518 times:

Just landed at Laguardia this morning on DL1907 from BOS. I've done this trip about 50 times in the last 15 months and always had the same question when landing on rwy 31. Never got a chance to ask the flight crew.

Is 31 visual only or is it ILS? It seems like the gear go down around 1800ft but then there is a sweeping left turn at about 1000 or so. If it is an ILS approach, when do you actually hit the localizer? Prior to, during, or after the turn?

Thanks

15 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4750 posts, RR: 45
Reply 1, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3487 times:

i think you're talking about the expressway visual.

when they're using the localizer, you usually fly right over LGA and make a series of right turns over the sound and line-up for a straight-in 31 approach.

i could be wrong tho



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineFlyHoss From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 598 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3483 times:

The approach you're describing sounds like the "Expressway Visual" to runway 31. Runway 31 also has an instrument approach; it's a localizer approach (an ILS without the glideslope component).

When flying the Expressway Visual to 31, I always to tune in the localizer to 31 as a back-up reference to the final portion of the approach, but rarely notice it, as the approach often demands nearly full visual attention outside (to line up with the runway centerline and to (visually) acquire the VASI (Visual Approach Slope Indicator lights)).



A little bit louder now, a lil bit louder now...
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3463 times:

http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0603/00289EXPRESSWAY_VIS31.PDF

User currently offlineJumbojet From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1159 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3413 times:

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 1):
i think you're talking about the expressway visual.

when they're using the localizer, you usually fly right over LGA and make a series of right turns over the sound and line-up for a straight-in 31 approach.

i could be wrong tho

thats exactly right. it seems the localizer is used when the winds are above a certain speed


User currently offlineVEEREF From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3390 times:

Quoting Jumbojet (Reply 4):
thats exactly right. it seems the localizer is used when the winds are above a certain speed

Generally more to do with ceiling and visibility than windspeed. Done both with winds gusting to the 30's.


User currently offlineJFKLGANYC From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3508 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3332 times:

Yeh, localizer is used for wind only.

They hate , repeat, absolutely hate using it.

As for delays, the minute the switch to the Rwy 31 LOC, you are looking at an EDCT (Expect Dep Clearance Time) wherever ur coming from.

If the winds are strong enough and they switch to LOC 31 and departures of 31 as well, you are looking at 2-4 hr delays!! Minimum!

Now if they are using Exp Visual 31, and the visibility drops, they will switch to the ILS 4 circle to land 31.

Basically the same thing. When u hit the tanks u hang a right until Flushing Meadows . . . the a diving left.

Love the Expwy Visual Approach.


'LaGuardia Tower, Eagle 4801 over the Tanks'


 Smile

PJ


User currently offlineN864DA From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 259 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3306 times:

As mentioned, there are two approaches to 31. The first is the the Expressway visual, which is used when the winds are not that strong (or else the approach is too dangerous). It follows the LGA VOR at R-225 degrees until the DIALS intersection then turns in the direction of the Long Island Expressway (hence the name) at about 85 degrees, then over the little inlet starts turning left to line up with the runway. By the time the runway heading is reached, the plane is almost at the touchdown point. It is a strictly visual approach.

The second approach is used when the crosswinds are too strong for the first approach to be safe, but runway 31 is the only option to land. It follows the sound, then makes a series of right turns, the last one a very steep 180-degree turn to line up with the runway, about 11nm away. I experienced that approach this month and I can see why pilots hate using it. The winds combined with the steep turns make it unpleasant to anyone on board.

N864DA


User currently offlineJumbojet From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1159 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 3237 times:

Quoting JFKLGANYC (Reply 6):
Yeh, localizer is used for wind only.

They hate , repeat, absolutely hate using it.

if your lucky enough to be on the left side of the plane and have a window seat you get great overviews of JFK airport on the localizer apprch.

Quoting JFKLGANYC (Reply 6):
Love the Expwy Visual Approach.

you can say that again, it gets me excited  Smile


User currently offlineFirstclasser From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 116 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 3185 times:

I noticed an approach over the Cross-Island Expressway, in which the aircraft went north (just to the East of JFK), and then turned left to land on 31 left. Is this a derivative of the Expwy Visual?

User currently offlineSoBe From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 256 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 3185 times:

Quoting JFKLGANYC (Reply 6):
Love the Expwy Visual Approach.

I've only been on it once. It was awesome.

Sorry for plugging my own photo.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Michael Lowing



User currently offlineBeertrucker From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 403 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 3160 times:

here u go i will see if i can find a better one while i post this one.

http://www.flightlevel350.com/video_streaming.php?id=4604

here is a wild one of a 737. they had to make a s- turn to avoid departing traffic.
http://www.flightlevel350.com/video_streaming.php?id=1851

[Edited 2006-03-29 00:07:52]

[Edited 2006-03-29 00:08:57]


Fly HI
User currently offlineSpikebe90 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 29 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 3126 times:

IT's even fun in a King Air!!!!!!


keep it in the middle of the road
User currently offlineDallas74 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 95 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 3047 times:

Quoting SoBe (Reply 10):
Sorry for plugging my own photo.

That is a great photo! Plug away!  Smile


User currently offlineDallas74 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 95 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 3042 times:

Quoting Beertrucker (Reply 11):
here is a wild one of a 737. they had to make a s- turn to avoid departing traffic.

Thank you for sharing those videos. They are great. I was on a flight that did one of those S-turns. It is quite a ride! The pilots who go in and out of LGA really do earn their pay.


User currently offlineJFKLGANYC From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3508 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 3016 times:

"The pilots who go in and out of LGA really do earn their pay."

Do we? Thank you sir!

Now being LGA based, can you please tell management that?!?!?!?

hahahah  Smile

PJ


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