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Compass To Take Over Independence Certificate  
User currently offlineNKMCO From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 96 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 6220 times:

Joint application of Independence and Compass (new? subsidiary of Northwest Airlines) for certificate transfer:

http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf95/391613_web.pdf

[Edited 2006-03-28 17:41:41]

30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6778 posts, RR: 17
Reply 1, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 6200 times:

Looks like "Compass" will only be flying 76 seat aircraft.. Wonder if that means NW will be ordering the E-175 or the CR-705?.. neither of which, NW nor NW Regional partnershave at the moment, do they?

Pretty cool.. And they will start flying in June of this year? Hmmm..



Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineUPS707 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 360 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 6190 times:

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 1):
Looks like "Compass" will only be flying 76 seat aircraft.. Wonder if that means NW will be ordering the E-175 or the CR-705?.. neither of which, NW nor NW Regional partnershave at the moment, do they?

Reading through the document, it looks like it's between the EMB-175 and the CRJ-900 (possibly both) and the decision is due April 2006. Interesting approach, I'll be curious to see how this pans out.


User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9671 posts, RR: 52
Reply 3, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 6190 times:

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 1):
Looks like "Compass" will only be flying 76 seat aircraft.. Wonder if that means NW will be ordering the E-175 or the CR-705?..

This is just a conjecture, but is it also possible that these 76 seat regional jets could be the Avros that Meseba operates on behalf of Northwest. They currently have a large first class section and are limited in the seats they can have due to a labor contract with mainline pilots. If Compass flew these planes with furloughed mainline pilots, then that could be an explanation.

Of course there also rumors going around about Northwest starting a new large RJ subsidiary with the Independence Air certificate.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineMalpensaSFO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 6176 times:

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 1):
Looks like "Compass" will only be flying 76 seat aircraft.. Wonder if that means NW will be ordering the E-175 or the CR-705?.. neither of which, NW nor NW Regional partnershave at the moment, do they?

Lets hope it doesnt suffer the same fate as the original Compass.. wink 


User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6778 posts, RR: 17
Reply 5, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 6141 times:

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 3):
but is it also possible that these 76 seat regional jets could be the Avros that Meseba operates on behalf of Northwest.

I checked it out.. the avros seat 69.. 16 F/ 53 Y.. but I suppose they could reconfigure them.. but aren't they a bit of a gas guzzler?



Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineMikey711MN From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1400 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 6108 times:

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 5):
I checked it out.. the avros seat 69.. 16 F/ 53 Y.. but I suppose they could reconfigure them..

They are currently configured artificially low (69 seats) to accomodate their scope clause with the pilots, but they could easily get another row or two in there.

If "Compass" plans on flying 76-seat jets in 6/06, then surely it would have to begin with the Avros until the newly-ordered jets get delivered.

-Mike



I plan on living forever. So far, so good...
User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9671 posts, RR: 52
Reply 7, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 6108 times:

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 5):
I checked it out.. the avros seat 69.. 16 F/ 53 Y.. but I suppose they could reconfigure them.. but aren't they a bit of a gas guzzler?

They may be older planes, but they are some of the only jets that can operate in to certain airports like Aspen. It is just a possibility, but I would expect that NW would want mroe seats on those planes if they could. 16 first class seats are a lot for a regional jet. This number is artificially lower than ideal, so I would guess that more economy seats would come if possible.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineMikey711MN From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1400 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 6093 times:

As a follow-up...

Quoting Mikey711MN (Reply 6):
If "Compass" plans on flying 76-seat jets in 6/06, then surely it would have to begin with the Avros until the newly-ordered jets get delivered.

The footnote in page 2 (page 3 of the PDF file itself) clearly states that this is, in fact, the case.

The conjecture would be then for how long...

-Mike



I plan on living forever. So far, so good...
User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6778 posts, RR: 17
Reply 9, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 6093 times:

Then I say pretty darn cool... The avros are cool.. And since they picked up the DH/ACA certificate, does this mean they can get the Dornier's they used to fly for DL and UA?


Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlinePVD757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3414 posts, RR: 16
Reply 10, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5986 times:

After reading the filing, it is clear that Compass would be operating CRJ-200s at first (possibly made up of some of DHs old birds as well as exisiting leased airframes already under the NW Airlink banner) then later obtaining the NEW 76 seat craft.

They also said in a footnote that Compass is designed to REPLACE Avro flying and upgrade certain CRJ flying later on.


User currently offlineM404 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2227 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 5790 times:
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Does anyone have another link to this report? I'm not getting anything even after long normal PDF wait times. Would very much like to read this.


Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
User currently offlineDelyan From Bulgaria, joined Jun 2005, 46 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 5774 times:

What about the A319s?

User currently offlineCorey07850 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2528 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 5765 times:

Well according to the PDF page 5, "Compass" will also start using Independence's CRJ's and still be based at IAD and fly to MSP.... Followed by using the Avro's, followed by "another" type of aircraft of which the amount depends on the manufacturers (I guess what kind of deal they can get)

User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6778 posts, RR: 17
Reply 14, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 5765 times:

Quoting Delyan (Reply 12):
What about the A319s?

all of FlyI's A319 were sold off. NW has some in storage, but in the Docket, it says they will not be using any A319 from DH. I think the Airline is supposed to be a 76 seat airline only..

Added information:

In case anyone is wondering, the first route is MSP-IAD.

[Edited 2006-03-29 02:15:03]


Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineMalaysia From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 3364 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 5742 times:

Quoting Delyan (Reply 12):
What about the A319s?

They are long gone, sent to other airlines, cause they were on lease. and an A319 is a full mainline equipment anyway. would not work with Compass.



There Are Those Who Believe That There May Yet Be Other Airlines Who Even Now Fight To Survive Beyond The Heavens
User currently offlineDerik737 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 333 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 5559 times:

If you read through the paperwork, they will not be flying Avro's. They will be flying ONE, yes one CRJ-200 back and forth twice a day between MSP and IAD for one year until the 76 seaters show up. This is to keep the certificate alive.

From the filing:

Fleet Information

As illustrated in the attached chart, Compass Airlines, Inc. plans to take delivery of one 50-seat Bombardier CRJ-200 aircraft in May, 2006. Subject to receipt of all required regulatory approvals, the CRJ-200 will begin operating revenue service in June, 2006. The CRJ-200 may possibly be sourced from former Independence Air aircraft which will be leased to Northwest Airlines and subleased to Compass. This will be a short-term arrangement and Compass anticipates that operation of this aircraft will be phased out during the last half of 2007.

Subject to receipt of all required regulatory approvals, Compass plans to take delivery of seventy-six (76) seat regional jet aircraft beginning in March, 2007. These aircraft will be the Bombardier CRJ-900 and/or the Embraer EMB-175. Final selection is expected to be made in April, 2006. Compass anticipates taking delivery of one aircraft per month in March, April and May, 2007, and taking delivery of two aircraft per month thereafter. By the end of 2010, Compass anticipates it will have taken delivery of at least thirty-six (36) seventy-six seat regional jet aircraft. Initially, these aircraft will be leased to Northwest Airlines and subleased to Compass. However, it is anticipated that Compass will eventually be able to obtain its own financing for these regional jet aircraft. Financing will be obtained at the best available terms.


Proposed flights for the first year:

IAD-MSP Departs 7:47 am - Arrives 9:32 am
MSP-IAD Departs 10:10 am - Arrives 1:32 pm
IAD-MSP Departs 2:15 pm - Arrives 3:58 pm
MSP-IAD Departs 6:55 pm - Arrives 10:25 pm

Note: It most likely won't be 7 days a week as the monthly block hours stated equal around 25 days of service a month. You have to have some time off for the small staff required! For that stated amount of block hours, I would think it would take around 4 crews (8 pilots).

[Edited 2006-03-29 05:58:11]

User currently offlineFlyibaby From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1017 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5519 times:

I am actually surprised more than anything that Compass will take over both FLYi's HDQ and MX Hangar at IAD. Additionally, many of the top Flight Operations guys will be sticking around in similar positions at they had at FLYi. Makes me wonder if my old job will be available again?!?!

User currently offlineDerik737 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 333 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5384 times:

I missed that in the filing (taking over hangar and HDQ). There was a list of assets that Compass was purchasing which included training manuals, computer servers along with their software and the certificate of course. I'll have to read it again to see where they mentioned the hangar.

It's best to keep the same personnel during a certificate transfer as this makes the process a lot smoother. Once the certificate has been transferred, changes can be made. I wouldn't be surprised to see Compass move operations in the future and attempt to move the certificate to the MSP CMO instead of the MSP FSDO if they move to MSP.


User currently offlineGoaliemn From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 463 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 5331 times:

Quoting Flyibaby (Reply 17):
I am actually surprised more than anything that Compass will take over both FLYi's HDQ and MX Hangar at IAD.

They are required to, if they want it to happen before the certificate goes stale. If you don't fly for 6 months, the certificate goes stale, then you have to start over.

In the certificate, certain maintenance records are mentioned, as well as where they are kept. In this case, it mentions the IAD hangar, and the computer software used to maintain them. I'm sure they'll convert over to another system, but for speeds sake, you keep the current stuff in place for now.

Quoting Derik737 (Reply 18):
It's best to keep the same personnel during a certificate transfer as this makes the process a lot smoother.

Certain key personel are part of the certificate. They are mentioned by name/position. otherwise, I'd be shocked if any other positions become open from the old FlyI


User currently offlinePlanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6281 posts, RR: 34
Reply 20, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5175 times:

Here's a link to the Compass story in Aviation Now...

http://www.aviationnow.com/avnow/new...omm_story.jsp?id=news/COM03296.xml

Compass to start flights in June from a base at Washington Dulles Airport with a single CRJ-200...

The airline is targeting placing 76-seat planes into service during the first full year of operations, "under a tentative growth plan forecasting operation of at least 36 such aircraft in domestic markets in five years." The carrier noted those planes are replacing Avro RJs flown by partner Mesaba.

...the carrier wants to take delivery of larger planes, starting in March 2007. "These aircraft will be the Bombardier CRJ-900 and/or the Embraer 175," Northwest said. "Final selection is expected to be made in April 2006."

Compass would fly the -900s with 12 first-class seats and 64 in coach, while the Embraer 175s would be configured for 11 first-class seats and 64 in coach class.


[Edited 2006-03-29 20:27:50]


Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlineTOLtommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3301 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5083 times:

Quoting Derik737 (Reply 16):
If you read through the paperwork...

Thank you for saying that. So much speculation from people who didn't bother to even read it.


User currently offlineKAUSpilot From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 1959 posts, RR: 32
Reply 22, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 5025 times:

Sounds like another Frank Lorenzo-style strategy by Northwest to start an alter ego and further disenfranchise the employees of Northwest airlines, Mesaba, and Pinnacle.

User currently offlineAirTran737 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3705 posts, RR: 12
Reply 23, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 5012 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

What does Compass mean for Mesaba and Pinnacle? Doesn't it kind of back them into a corner?


Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
User currently offlineMalaysia From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 3364 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4875 times:

Oooooh I want to apply for Compass Air

They should use Compass Air in Asia for some NW routes that may need just a E-190

[Edited 2006-03-30 02:29:15]


There Are Those Who Believe That There May Yet Be Other Airlines Who Even Now Fight To Survive Beyond The Heavens
25 Post contains links CIDflyer : Very interesting! Which one will NWA order? The Embraer would be cool, although the CR9 would have the commonality factor with the exisiting CRJ's. I
26 JetBlueGuy2006 : I think that if everything goes according to what they want Compass can be successful. I just hope they don't rush it. I found that that is what happe
27 KAUSpilot : Exactly...however, there's talk of staffing compass with furloughed Northwest and Mesaba pilots, which I suppose is fine if it's true. Still, it seem
28 Ejmmsu : It is my understanding that Compass will basically be the long-term DC-9 and avro replacement (along with more Airbii at mainline). Therefore, NW wil
29 Post contains links Mexicana757 : Here is a follow up on Compass Airlines and what NW has planned for them. I just saw this news report on the local news but found this online. NW expe
30 Post contains links AMFAproud : And look who NW pick to head the new spin off: www.amfa33.org/mr_bankruptcy.htm "The apple doesn't fall far from the tree"
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