ERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6626 posts, RR: 19 Reply 1, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4030 times:
Looks like "Compass" will only be flying 76 seat aircraft.. Wonder if that means NW will be ordering the E-175 or the CR-705?.. neither of which, NW nor NW Regional partnershave at the moment, do they?
Pretty cool.. And they will start flying in June of this year? Hmmm..
UPS707 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 354 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4020 times:
Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 1): Looks like "Compass" will only be flying 76 seat aircraft.. Wonder if that means NW will be ordering the E-175 or the CR-705?.. neither of which, NW nor NW Regional partnershave at the moment, do they?
Reading through the document, it looks like it's between the EMB-175 and the CRJ-900 (possibly both) and the decision is due April 2006. Interesting approach, I'll be curious to see how this pans out.
RoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 8741 posts, RR: 52 Reply 3, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4020 times:
Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 1): Looks like "Compass" will only be flying 76 seat aircraft.. Wonder if that means NW will be ordering the E-175 or the CR-705?..
This is just a conjecture, but is it also possible that these 76 seat regional jets could be the Avros that Meseba operates on behalf of Northwest. They currently have a large first class section and are limited in the seats they can have due to a labor contract with mainline pilots. If Compass flew these planes with furloughed mainline pilots, then that could be an explanation.
Of course there also rumors going around about Northwest starting a new large RJ subsidiary with the Independence Air certificate.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
MalpensaSFO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 4, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4006 times:
Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 1): Looks like "Compass" will only be flying 76 seat aircraft.. Wonder if that means NW will be ordering the E-175 or the CR-705?.. neither of which, NW nor NW Regional partnershave at the moment, do they?
Lets hope it doesnt suffer the same fate as the original Compass..
ERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6626 posts, RR: 19 Reply 5, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3971 times:
Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 3): but is it also possible that these 76 seat regional jets could be the Avros that Meseba operates on behalf of Northwest.
I checked it out.. the avros seat 69.. 16 F/ 53 Y.. but I suppose they could reconfigure them.. but aren't they a bit of a gas guzzler?
Mikey711MN From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1380 posts, RR: 8 Reply 6, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3938 times:
Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 5): I checked it out.. the avros seat 69.. 16 F/ 53 Y.. but I suppose they could reconfigure them..
They are currently configured artificially low (69 seats) to accomodate their scope clause with the pilots, but they could easily get another row or two in there.
If "Compass" plans on flying 76-seat jets in 6/06, then surely it would have to begin with the Avros until the newly-ordered jets get delivered.
RoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 8741 posts, RR: 52 Reply 7, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3938 times:
Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 5): I checked it out.. the avros seat 69.. 16 F/ 53 Y.. but I suppose they could reconfigure them.. but aren't they a bit of a gas guzzler?
They may be older planes, but they are some of the only jets that can operate in to certain airports like Aspen. It is just a possibility, but I would expect that NW would want mroe seats on those planes if they could. 16 first class seats are a lot for a regional jet. This number is artificially lower than ideal, so I would guess that more economy seats would come if possible.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
Mikey711MN From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1380 posts, RR: 8 Reply 8, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3923 times:
As a follow-up...
Quoting Mikey711MN (Reply 6): If "Compass" plans on flying 76-seat jets in 6/06, then surely it would have to begin with the Avros until the newly-ordered jets get delivered.
The footnote in page 2 (page 3 of the PDF file itself) clearly states that this is, in fact, the case.
ERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6626 posts, RR: 19 Reply 9, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3923 times:
Then I say pretty darn cool... The avros are cool.. And since they picked up the DH/ACA certificate, does this mean they can get the Dornier's they used to fly for DL and UA?
PVD757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3375 posts, RR: 18 Reply 10, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3816 times:
After reading the filing, it is clear that Compass would be operating CRJ-200s at first (possibly made up of some of DHs old birds as well as exisiting leased airframes already under the NW Airlink banner) then later obtaining the NEW 76 seat craft.
They also said in a footnote that Compass is designed to REPLACE Avro flying and upgrade certain CRJ flying later on.
M404 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2214 posts, RR: 5 Reply 11, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3620 times:
Does anyone have another link to this report? I'm not getting anything even after long normal PDF wait times. Would very much like to read this.
Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
Corey07850 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2519 posts, RR: 5 Reply 13, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3595 times:
Well according to the PDF page 5, "Compass" will also start using Independence's CRJ's and still be based at IAD and fly to MSP.... Followed by using the Avro's, followed by "another" type of aircraft of which the amount depends on the manufacturers (I guess what kind of deal they can get)
ERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6626 posts, RR: 19 Reply 14, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3595 times:
all of FlyI's A319 were sold off. NW has some in storage, but in the Docket, it says they will not be using any A319 from DH. I think the Airline is supposed to be a 76 seat airline only..
Added information:
In case anyone is wondering, the first route is MSP-IAD.
Malaysia From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 3184 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3572 times:
Derik737 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 331 posts, RR: 4 Reply 16, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3389 times:
If you read through the paperwork, they will not be flying Avro's. They will be flying ONE, yes one CRJ-200 back and forth twice a day between MSP and IAD for one year until the 76 seaters show up. This is to keep the certificate alive.
From the filing:
Fleet Information
As illustrated in the attached chart, Compass Airlines, Inc. plans to take delivery of one 50-seat Bombardier CRJ-200 aircraft in May, 2006. Subject to receipt of all required regulatory approvals, the CRJ-200 will begin operating revenue service in June, 2006. The CRJ-200 may possibly be sourced from former Independence Air aircraft which will be leased to Northwest Airlines and subleased to Compass. This will be a short-term arrangement and Compass anticipates that operation of this aircraft will be phased out during the last half of 2007.
Subject to receipt of all required regulatory approvals, Compass plans to take delivery of seventy-six (76) seat regional jet aircraft beginning in March, 2007. These aircraft will be the Bombardier CRJ-900 and/or the Embraer EMB-175. Final selection is expected to be made in April, 2006. Compass anticipates taking delivery of one aircraft per month in March, April and May, 2007, and taking delivery of two aircraft per month thereafter. By the end of 2010, Compass anticipates it will have taken delivery of at least thirty-six (36) seventy-six seat regional jet aircraft. Initially, these aircraft will be leased to Northwest Airlines and subleased to Compass. However, it is anticipated that Compass will eventually be able to obtain its own financing for these regional jet aircraft. Financing will be obtained at the best available terms.
Note: It most likely won't be 7 days a week as the monthly block hours stated equal around 25 days of service a month. You have to have some time off for the small staff required! For that stated amount of block hours, I would think it would take around 4 crews (8 pilots).
Flyibaby From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1015 posts, RR: 6 Reply 17, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3349 times:
I am actually surprised more than anything that Compass will take over both FLYi's HDQ and MX Hangar at IAD. Additionally, many of the top Flight Operations guys will be sticking around in similar positions at they had at FLYi. Makes me wonder if my old job will be available again?!?!
Derik737 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 331 posts, RR: 4 Reply 18, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 3214 times:
I missed that in the filing (taking over hangar and HDQ). There was a list of assets that Compass was purchasing which included training manuals, computer servers along with their software and the certificate of course. I'll have to read it again to see where they mentioned the hangar.
It's best to keep the same personnel during a certificate transfer as this makes the process a lot smoother. Once the certificate has been transferred, changes can be made. I wouldn't be surprised to see Compass move operations in the future and attempt to move the certificate to the MSP CMO instead of the MSP FSDO if they move to MSP.
Goaliemn From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 463 posts, RR: 3 Reply 19, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 3161 times:
Quoting Flyibaby (Reply 17): I am actually surprised more than anything that Compass will take over both FLYi's HDQ and MX Hangar at IAD.
They are required to, if they want it to happen before the certificate goes stale. If you don't fly for 6 months, the certificate goes stale, then you have to start over.
In the certificate, certain maintenance records are mentioned, as well as where they are kept. In this case, it mentions the IAD hangar, and the computer software used to maintain them. I'm sure they'll convert over to another system, but for speeds sake, you keep the current stuff in place for now.
Quoting Derik737 (Reply 18): It's best to keep the same personnel during a certificate transfer as this makes the process a lot smoother.
Certain key personel are part of the certificate. They are mentioned by name/position. otherwise, I'd be shocked if any other positions become open from the old FlyI
Compass to start flights in June from a base at Washington Dulles Airport with a single CRJ-200...
The airline is targeting placing 76-seat planes into service during the first full year of operations, "under a tentative growth plan forecasting operation of at least 36 such aircraft in domestic markets in five years." The carrier noted those planes are replacing Avro RJs flown by partner Mesaba.
...the carrier wants to take delivery of larger planes, starting in March 2007. "These aircraft will be the Bombardier CRJ-900 and/or the Embraer 175," Northwest said. "Final selection is expected to be made in April 2006."
Compass would fly the -900s with 12 first-class seats and 64 in coach, while the Embraer 175s would be configured for 11 first-class seats and 64 in coach class.
[Edited 2006-03-29 20:27:50]
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KAUSpilot From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 1955 posts, RR: 37 Reply 22, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2855 times:
Sounds like another Frank Lorenzo-style strategy by Northwest to start an alter ego and further disenfranchise the employees of Northwest airlines, Mesaba, and Pinnacle.
AirTran737 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3639 posts, RR: 12 Reply 23, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2842 times:
What does Compass mean for Mesaba and Pinnacle? Doesn't it kind of back them into a corner?
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
Malaysia From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 3184 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2705 times:
Oooooh I want to apply for Compass Air
They should use Compass Air in Asia for some NW routes that may need just a E-190
[Edited 2006-03-30 02:29:15]
There Are Those Who Believe That There May Yet Be Other Airlines Who Even Now Fight To Survive Beyond The Heavens
25 CIDflyer: Very interesting! Which one will NWA order? The Embraer would be cool, although the CR9 would have the commonality factor with the exisiting CRJ's. I
26 JetBlueGuy2006: I think that if everything goes according to what they want Compass can be successful. I just hope they don't rush it. I found that that is what happe
27 KAUSpilot: Exactly...however, there's talk of staffing compass with furloughed Northwest and Mesaba pilots, which I suppose is fine if it's true. Still, it seem
28 Ejmmsu: It is my understanding that Compass will basically be the long-term DC-9 and avro replacement (along with more Airbii at mainline). Therefore, NW wil
29 Mexicana757: Here is a follow up on Compass Airlines and what NW has planned for them. I just saw this news report on the local news but found this online. NW expe
30 AMFAproud: And look who NW pick to head the new spin off: www.amfa33.org/mr_bankruptcy.htm "The apple doesn't fall far from the tree"
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