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Why No N. American Carrier To DXB?  
User currently offlineBoeingFever777 From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 409 posts, RR: 53
Posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 8669 times:

Why does no N. American carrier ie: "AA, CO, DL, NW, US, or UA" fly direct from America to DXB? Is it due to laws or something or just not enough traffic to fly direct to the UAE from say JFK, ORD, EWR, ATL, or MIA?



EWR-DXB =5962 nm
JFK-DXB =5951 nm
MIA-DXB =6817 nm
ORD-DXB =6297 nm
ATL-DXB =6603 nm

All can be done with a 772ER it looks like w/o payload restrictions.


Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
70 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFxramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7359 posts, RR: 85
Reply 1, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 8608 times:
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I'd vote for an AA flight doing ORD-FRA-DXB on 763. Are there to many European carriers going to DXB already?

User currently offlineIberiaA319 From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 574 posts, RR: 38
Reply 2, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 8600 times:

It seems that Delta used to operate to Dubai a few years ago. Press conference five years ago found on the Internet:

Delta Air Lines, America's leading transatlantic carrier, touched down for the first time at Dubai International Airport, in the United Arab Emirates, this evening marking the entry of the only US airline to directly serve the UAE market.

The UAE now becomes the 67th country on Delta's extensive worldwide network. Flight DL 120, which left New York JFK with a full passenger load, arrived at Dubai International Airport's state-of-the-art Sheikh Rashid Terminal, via Cairo, to a water-cannon salute and a VIP reception with His Highness Sheikh Ahmed bin Saeed al Maktoum,President, Department of Civil Aviation, Government of Dubai and Chairman of the Emirates Group heading the welcomingdelegation.

HH Sheikh Ahmed boarded the state-of-the-art, long-range MD-11 aircraft to personallywelcome to Dubai, a Delta delegation which included the airline's President and Chief Operating Officer, Frederick W. Reid and its Chief Financial Officer, Michele Burns.

"Delta's arrival is a major milestone in Dubai's rapidly evolving aviation history," said HH Sheikh Ahmed. "Dubai International Airport is now served by 95 carriers but Delta is the only American airline to offer a direct route to New York JFK.

Source: http://www.dubaiairport.com/NR/rdonl...AA06-28D0FBD87786/0/archives_6.pdf


User currently offlineANother From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 8582 times:

That was shortly before 11 September 2001, and operated one-stop via CAI.

User currently offlineFXramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7359 posts, RR: 85
Reply 4, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 8571 times:
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Quoting ANother (Reply 3):
That was shortly before 11 September 2001, and operated one-stop via CAI.

They think ATL-JNB is gonna be more profitable...what a gamble for a carrier having such problems already.  Sad


User currently offlineBicoastal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 8556 times:

Think about it. Given the unfortunate presence of radical terrorists in the Middle East who hate any and all things American, then American carriers might as well paint a big target on their aircraft should they decide to fly to that region. Insurance costs and common sense will keep American airlines away from the region for years to come.

Maybe North American carriers from Canada and Mexico should fly the route.

[Edited 2006-03-28 19:42:18]

User currently offlineLufthansa747 From Philippines, joined May 1999, 3201 posts, RR: 34
Reply 6, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 8531 times:

Quoting Fxramper (Reply 1):
Are there to many European carriers going to DXB already?

Many? Just about everybody flies there at least daily.



Air Asia Super Elite, Cebu Pacific Titanium
User currently offlineFXramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7359 posts, RR: 85
Reply 7, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 8531 times:
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Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 5):
Think about it. Given the unfortunate presence of radical terrorists in the Middle East who hate any and all things American, then American carriers might as well paint a big target on their aircraft should they decide to fly to that region. Insurance costs and common sense will keep American airlines away from the region for years to come.

CO does two daily flights to TLV... confused 


User currently offlineB777A340Fan From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 775 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 8499 times:

Quoting Lufthansa747 (Reply 6):
Think about it. Given the unfortunate presence of radical terrorists in the Middle East who hate any and all things American, then American carriers might as well paint a big target on their aircraft should they decide to fly to that region. Insurance costs and common sense will keep American airlines away from the region for years to come.

That could understandably be a reason, but UAE is a safe country. It doesn't have an anti-American approach like, let's say, Iraq or Iran. I just think it's more of a business decision. I don't know if the market is demanding enough to justify flying from the US to DXB. Even if there were, it would only be available at limited quantity. Most US airlines serve DXB through alliances and partnerships, so indirectly, they do serve DXB. So far, it's been working for them.


User currently offlineFXramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7359 posts, RR: 85
Reply 9, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 8486 times:
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Quoting B777A340Fan (Reply 8):
US airlines serve DXB through alliances and partnerships

I guess the EI flight that started today will give AA a flight to DXB.


User currently offlineDeltaSFO From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2488 posts, RR: 22
Reply 10, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 8469 times:

Quoting FXramper (Reply 4):
They think ATL-JNB is gonna be more profitable...what a gamble for a carrier having such problems already.

It will. Also, in case you didn't notice, every U.S. carrier is having problems right now.

Besides, Delta going back to the Middle East soon is not too farfetched.



It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
User currently offlineBoeingFever777 From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 409 posts, RR: 53
Reply 11, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 8442 times:

I thought the UAE was a safe country for westerns and tourism and that the government actively promoted tourism and travel to their country. That's is crazy about DL though flying to DXB, what metal were they using??? I would think that once EK starts flying LAX, SFO, and IAH in the feature that some N. American carriers would start flying to DXB. Does not have to be the airports I stated as JFK, ORD, EWR, MIA, or ATL. I also thought maybe IAD-DXB.

[Edited 2006-03-28 20:09:27]


Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
User currently offlineIberiaA319 From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 574 posts, RR: 38
Reply 12, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 8416 times:

Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 11):
what metal were they using???

MD-11, as stated above.

Interesting this part of the press conference, what HH Sheikh Ahmed mentioned when the first DL flight arrived at DXB

"The USA is now a key target for various industries within Dubai. We are looking to bring more American tourists here and to enlist major US corporations into the growing number of multi-nationals operating regional headquarters here, particularly those from the I.T. and media sectors, which would be ideally located in the Technology Free Zone. "We look to Delta to assist in building awareness of Dubai and the UAE throughout the USA and the launch of this service will play a major role in creating a closer two-way relationship."


User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 8240 times:

Leaving aside security issues, DXB has always been easy to access through European or Middle Eastern carriers. I would guess that even prior to 9/11, American carriers were content to route passengers to/from the Middle East via Europe as a matter of simplicity.

The only exception being Israel, but even now CO and DL are just beginning service there.

Logistically, it's a fair distance, and it seems to me that setting up a new station AND competing against carriers in your alliance might be a little self-defeating unless there is a HUGE demand all of a sudden. Let us also remember that UA, DL, and CO have a limited supply of wide-body airplanes, which could be another hindrance.



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User currently offlinePositiverate From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1590 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 8222 times:

Quoting DeltaSFO (Reply 10):
Besides, Delta going back to the Middle East soon is not too farfetched.

Not too farfetched at all, as evidenced by the TLV service they are just starting.


User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4973 posts, RR: 25
Reply 15, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 8162 times:
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Quoting FXramper (Reply 4):
They think ATL-JNB is gonna be more profitable...what a gamble for a carrier having such problems already

JFK-DXB will be difficult for Delta to restart since EK has double daily nonstops now anyway (not to mention the myriad number of connecting options through Europe). With JNB, Delta got a headstart through the codeshares with South African - they have gained significant operational insight into the market these past few years with SA and will have less competition also.


User currently offlineSllevin From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 3376 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 8138 times:

I think US airlines don't operate to DXB for the same reason that European airlines don't fly to HNL -- there are simply the same opporunties (nice resorts, shopping, etc) that are much, much closer to home. An airline like EK flying into NYC has the ability to take on traffic that is headed beyond DXB -- a US carrier (for practical purposes) can't.

Steve


User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 8109 times:

Quoting FXramper (Reply 4):

They think ATL-JNB is gonna be more profitable...what a gamble for a carrier having such problems already.

If SA wasn't having practically full loads on that flight, DL wouldn't be jumping onto the route once SA pulls up stakes. The flights have had very good loads throughout the 6+ years SA has flown into ATL, and also have been a moneymaker cargowise as well.

As for DL returning to DXB, who really knows. Their 777 fleet is pretty much stretched thin and the only other choice would be to route it through a European city much like they've done their flights to India.


User currently offlinePlanespotting From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3539 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 8080 times:

FedEx goes there...my uncle used to overnight there all the time after taking the A300 through...his crew base was Paris and often times he'd go through ATH before hitting DXB.


Do you like movies about gladiators?
User currently offlineDeltaSFO From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2488 posts, RR: 22
Reply 19, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 8080 times:

Based on the comments of Delta executives so far, I would be very surprised if Delta did not take delivery of the two B777s scheduled for early 2008 delivery. Until then, B767 routings via European cities can be used for market entry and a holdover until more suitable aircraft are on property.


It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
User currently offlineB777A340Fan From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 775 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 8001 times:

Quoting FXramper (Reply 9):
I guess the EI flight that started today will give AA a flight to DXB.

Sure thing, count BA/CX (members of the One World Alliance alongside AA), LH/OS (members of the Star Alliance alongside UAL, US), AF/KL (members of the SkyTeam alliance alongside DL and NW), to name a few.

[Edited 2006-03-29 00:15:27]

User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 21, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 7958 times:

Quoting B777A340Fan (Reply 8):
. I don't know if the market is demanding enough to justify flying from the US to DXB.

EK flies 2 A345's JFK-DXB, of which one of the A345's is being switched to the 777-300ER......EK's Clark has also mentioned about sending the A380 to JFK....

Quoting Sllevin (Reply 16):
An airline like EK flying into NYC has the ability to take on traffic that is headed beyond DXB -- a US carrier (for practical purposes) can't.

that might be one issue for United States carriers to deal with...unless they can get some freedom rights to or through DXB/AUH, it might be difficult for them to be successful......



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineKLM685 From Mexico, joined May 2005, 1577 posts, RR: 18
Reply 22, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 7939 times:

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 5):

Maybe North American carriers from Canada and Mexico should fly the route.

Awww this would be fantastic!!



KLM- The Best Airline in the World!
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14139 posts, RR: 63
Reply 23, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 7927 times:

UPS flies there as well with the MD-11

Jan


User currently offlineAlitaliaMD11 From Spain, joined Dec 2003, 4068 posts, RR: 13
Reply 24, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 7882 times:

Continental code-shares with Emirates on EWR-MAN-DXB. (Continental EWR-MAN, Emirates MAN-DXB)

[Edited 2006-03-29 01:18:11]


No Vueling No Party
25 Sllevin : I actually thought DXB gave everyone 5th freedom rights. Even with that, I don't think anyone would want to play in that particular playground, espec
26 BA : Correct. The United Arab Emirates and Lebanon are the only countries in the Middle East with a complete open skies policy which automatically grants
27 Mah584jr : While UAE might be a safe country, not many Americans are aware of that, nor could many even locate the country on the map. 9/11 changed many America
28 SESGDL : ATL-JNB was one of SA's most profitable routes. DL's ATL-DKR-JNB will be a moneymaker without question. Jeremy
29 BA : Let me add that while I'm sure North American airlines have been keeping a close eye on Dubai, I think they are also keeping a close eye on other unta
30 Jacobin777 : thanks for the information.....with EK gangstering all the routes out of DXB and NA citizens to much of a scared/paranoid scardy whimps, I guess EK w
31 EK156 : I am sorry but your statement reeks with ignorance!!!! If you are talking about Iraq, Iran and maybe Saudi Arabia then these are only 3 countries amo
32 AirCanada014 : Well if you asking for North America why is AC not mention in the first thread? I know AC will be flying there as soon as they get their 777s and 787s
33 Ttango : Continental has seriously considered the EWR-DXB route before (around 2002/2003). This was when they were actually looking to NOT accept their 18th 77
34 Bahadir : Ignorance of Americans about Dubai amazes me. That might be the major reason why there are no American carriers serving the market. The closest secon
35 Post contains images Jacobin777 : I think CO would do well on their own...I don't know how that would affect their codesharing with EK however... would that be a Canada-DXB-Canada rou
36 Drinkstrolley : Everybody?
37 BoeingFever777 : Would CO ever consider flying this route? EWR-DXB or IAH-DXB on a daily basis? I know they still have some 772ER's on order to make that route a possi
38 DesertJets : W/ DXB granting 5th freedom rights to all carriers would it be possible for an American airline to operate a US-DXB-India flight w/o any restrictions?
39 AirxLiban : Actually I was under the impression that the DXB-JFK routing had proven troublesome even for the 772ER. IIRC MH was operating DXB-EWR with the 772ER
40 DLPMMM : There is very little reason for a North American carrier to fly to Dubai. Dubai's location is close to ideal for a hub between Europe and Asia. N.A. a
41 Ttango : Well....they have considered it before. Read reply 33.
42 Tzadik : rolling into Tel Aviv is vastly different then heading deep into the middle east. I can't imagine what routes would be taken... I certainly don't see
43 DLPMMM : I have been in American commercial aircraft overflying Iran and Iraq before. Flights from the USA to India that stop in Europe (such as DL via CDG an
44 EurostarVA : I'm sorry but you are either disconnected from the reality of American interests in the Gulf or you seem to base your opinion solely on the fact that
45 MarkATL : The region does have some trouble spots but Dubai is by no means one of them. I would think the Philipines or Columbia would be far more dangerous th
46 Skyguy : The US airlines are in the doldrums, they want to fly to new cities and on new routes but don't have that much spare capacity on their long haul aircr
47 Behramjee : DXB-JFK sees good loads for EK in J class but very low yielding in Y class. The route breaks even due to the massive yield on cargo gained as the carg
48 BA : AC has quite a few Middle East destinations in mind including CAI, BEY, THR, and DXB. Yes. I agree with you. DXB is not yet a popular tourist destina
49 DLPMMM : I doubt this projection on your part. The reason is explained by you in your own words: And the prices for Americans with respect to shopping are hig
50 EK156 : Do you really live in bahrain or are you just pretending? Your argument is completely off track. Cause if it is majorily true about the American Airl
51 Phuebner : I think the issue is all about Code sharing. All the major carriers code share with an airline that already flies into Dubai. They don't want to comp
52 SJCRRPAX : I think the reason is simple, the demand is not really there. The Arab Population in the U.S. is not as large as some of you imagine, and the U.S. is
53 Ctbarnes : I can't imagine there would be enough O&D traffic to support a US carrier flying into DXB. As others have mentioned above, USA-DXB is already well ser
54 AirxLiban : In addition there aren't any Arabs in Dubai! Well not any Emirati Arabs anyway - they constitute something like 15 or 20% of the population. Can anyo
55 LH455 : My friend, many more in the USA have these sentiments. My partner just the other day spoke with a co-worker (and this is at a large U.S.-based TNC) w
56 HoosierCFI : I think that this is a pretty good reason why the N American airlines are avoiding this route. Emirates has a superior product, and most American car
57 Bond007 : That's your answer! It's no more complicated than that! It might be different if their were many other middle-eastern airlines flying the route - but
58 Phuebner : I think that the Middle East needs to help out in this area. How many times do we have to hear on the news "Death to America" "Death to Christians" (
59 Jacobin777 : as I previously said, paranoid American people......
60 EurostarVA : Yes I do live in Bahrain and yes I'm a frequent visitor to Dubai, and yes, I'm Arab and Palestinian. Now...if you think you've got everything figured
61 Jacobin777 : salaam.. unfortunately, I think you are correct.......it would be nice to see more NA-based carriers in the middle east, however, until there is more
62 BHMNONREV : While I would agree with your assessment of safe streets in Dubai, I would not in reference to security at DXB or any other airport in the Middle Eas
63 Post contains links BA : I don't think it's fair to say security in all Middle East airports is lax based on experience in a few of them. In my recent travels through Cairo a
64 StarGoldLHR : America has thousands of troops in the Gulf, who are regularly going to / from the states and there not always going by Military transports. Thousands
65 Post contains links EurostarVA : Highly relevant to this topic: Dubai International Airport budgets US $ 360 for security for FY 2006/2007 http://www.zawya.com/Story.cfm/sidZA...DC642
66 ZRH : I think many Europen airlines fly to DXB. Since Swiss is now a Star Alliance member UA has a code-share on the daily flight from ZRH to DXB (LX 242/U
67 DLPMMM : United, Delta, World and others. There are military charters by the DoD for troop positioning. The question was not whether there are thousands of Am
68 Ezra : Assuming a 763 could do the JFK-DXB or ATL-DXB run (this I don't know), would DL consider routing it's India flying through Dubai? How much French O&D
69 Post contains images Jsnww81 : In my personal opinion (not rooted much in fact) there are no US carriers at DXB for a number of reasons, most of which have already been said: 1.) No
70 IberiaA319 : A 777-200ER is the most suitable aircraft for a non-stop flight, as the 763ER has just a range of 6,105 nm, according to Boeing's website. There are
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