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Who's Profitable At Lax?  
User currently offlineAAden From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 835 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2464 times:

out of the U.S carriers does anyone make money there besides southwest.

14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineJetdeltamsy From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2987 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2436 times:

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$Southwest for sure.


Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
User currently offlineQXatFAT From Israel, joined Feb 2006, 2405 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2431 times:

UAX and AE do pretty well out of LAX am I correct?


Don't Tread On Me!
User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4836 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2411 times:

Not USA, but NZ and QF make money out of LAX


56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25532 posts, RR: 50
Reply 4, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2364 times:

There are plenty of opportunities to make money out of LAX. Not only is it a huge O&D market there are several high yielding domestic markets besides the many international opportunities.

For instance according to DOT reports United reports an incredibly strong yield of 37.23 cents to SFO, 21.91 to SMF, 21.83 to OAK, 18.48 to DEN plus off course all the premium business traffic destined to places such as the East Coast including the carriers special JFK p.s. product.

In addition LAX provides large volume of feed into most carriers hubs and beyond services.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineTxAgKuwait From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 1803 posts, RR: 42
Reply 5, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2307 times:

>>For instance according to DOT reports United reports an incredibly strong yield of 37.23 cents to SFO, 21.91 to SMF, 21.83 to OAK, <<

I believe it was Liz Taylor in "Cleopatra" who said that things are not always how they appear.

It is true that UA enjoys a yield of 37.2 cents to SFO.
It is also true that the LAX-SFO market has shrunk to 1931 psgrs per day, and UA only carries 61% (1178 pax).

The yield to Sacramento is 21.91 cents, but UA only has 14% of that. 1891 psgr/day market (WN has 84% market share)..

Oakland? It's a 3331 passenger per day market, but United does not even show up as a player - WN has a 96% market share.

I won't address the preimum service international routes since I have no certain knowledge of what they add or fail to add to United's profitability. Suffice it to say if they are expecting SFO, OAK, OR SMF to make them some money they are seriously in a world of hurt.


User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25532 posts, RR: 50
Reply 6, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2282 times:

Quoting TxAgKuwait (Reply 5):

My point being that Los Angeles besides being a huge O&D market is far from being a bottom feeder low yield market. I can site such yield reports for other airlines, but picked United solely as they happen to be the number one airline at LAX.

While airlines might slug it out on the micro level on a specific routes, at the macro level there is plenty of passengers and money to go around to the multiple airlines that have large presence at LAX.

Further helping LAX is the lack of viable large alternative airports in the region and that it sits in a metro area that continues to see population and industry growth.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinePlanetime From Singapore, joined Mar 2006, 719 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2152 times:

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 4):
JFK p.s. product

UAL for all said must be making a good profit out of LAX. All the far East and S.Pacif operations and along with PS product which is basically 2/3 of the plane premium passengers must be high yielding. Ted and rest of domestic must be bleeding money though only to be covered up by the international.


User currently offlineAnthsaun From Mexico, joined Apr 2004, 544 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 2096 times:

You can not go in general terms for an entire airline. There are some very profitable routes and some not so. For instance, Delta gets good numbers on the LAX - SLC.


Over 80 years in business say a lot about success
User currently offlineUSPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3295 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 2028 times:

UA and AA do really well, but the transcon yields aren't quite what they used to be. MAH4546 and Commavia can enlighten you on AA's loads. MAH might even know CO's and NW's.


It's a Great Day for Hockey!
User currently offlineASFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1175 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 1993 times:

Alaska is doing well at LAX

User currently offlineFLYYUL From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 4983 posts, RR: 51
Reply 11, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 1988 times:

Laxintl,

Yield must also be looked as a function of stage length. The shorter the stage length, the higher the CASM. On a route like LAX-SFO, the average fare is $125, which is quite low.


User currently offlineQxq400 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 255 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 1907 times:

AS/QX is doing well not only in LAX but in BUR,SNA,ONT.


Welcome baby Madison Renee
User currently offlineTxAgKuwait From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 1803 posts, RR: 42
Reply 13, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 1901 times:

For everyone's enjoyment, here are the latest DOT domestic O&D numbers along with fares & yields (in/out of LAX) [top 100 markets in/out of El Lay]


city pair - distance - pax/day - avg fare - lgst carrier -mkt share - other carrier -mkt share -yield

LAX NYC 2475 7322.85 291.9 AA 38.72 DL 19.47 11.79
CHI LAX 1750 4423.95 184.06 AA 33.22 WN 26.12 10.52
LAS LAX 236 3825.6 84.08 WN 50.11 UA 21.14 35.63
LAX OAK 337 3330.54 94.24 WN 96 WN 96 27.96
LAX WAS 2311 2526.59 245.07 UA 47.76 AA 22.08 10.60
LAX PHX 370 2452.08 81.26 WN 72.35 WN 72.35 21.96
LAX SEA 954 2441.2 161.24 AS 54.58 WN 11.21 16.90
ATL LAX 1946 2157.25 208.93 DL 58.89 FL 14.97 10.74
LAX SJC 308 2030.1 94.5 WN 83.92 WN 83.92 30.68
LAX PHL 2401 1977.14 179.69 US 39.92 WN 18.35 7.48
LAX SFO 337 1931.09 147.41 UA 61.29 AS 10.03 43.74
DFW LAX 1246 1910.65 181.23 AA 55.31 FL 12.72 14.54
LAX SMF 373 1891.42 91.85 WN 83.86 WN 83.86 24.62
DEN LAX 862 1851.75 190.14 UA 44.39 AA 24.58 22.06
BOS LAX 2611 1818.24 253.44 AA 42.89 HP 14.57 9.71
HOU LAX 1390 1795.6 175.28 CO 64.25 WN 20.8 12.61
LAX MCO 2217 1632.19 188.11 DL 43.58 DL 43.58 8.48
LAX MSP 1536 1533.84 180 NW 69.6 SY 14.62 11.72
DTW LAX 1979 1481.53 204.67 NW 64.21 NK 17.28 10.34
LAX PDX 834 1301.53 155.16 AS 44.95 UA 34.33 18.60
LAX SLC 590 1282.08 106.41 DL 48.62 WN 48.5 18.04
FLL LAX 2342 1190 186.16 AA 45.42 DL 35.42 7.95
BWO LAX 2329 1056.81 206.19 UA 37.88 WN 32.7 8.85
LAX TUS 451 916.26 78.54 WN 97.2 WN 97.2 17.41
LAX MIA 2342 901.97 257.44 AA 78.88 HP 3.67 10.99
LAX STL 1593 901.53 192.08 AA 64.91 WN 18.72 12.06
MCI LAX 1363 890.76 155.05 WN 54.42 YX 17.78 11.38
IND LAX 1814 888.9 145.51 TZ 36.8 TZ 36.8 8.02
LAX MSY 1671 788.02 208.96 UA 47.46 WN 19.21 12.51
LAX TPA 2158 786.7 179.09 DL 76.03 DL 76.03 8.30
ABQ LAX 677 674.72 146.45 WN 88.46 HP 7.24 21.63
LAX RNO 390 653.51 103.72 WN 64.2 AS 31.96 26.59
AUS LAX 1242 578.02 189.65 AA 63.15 WN 22.92 15.27
LAX BNA 1797 573.84 200.47 WN 44.82 WN 44.82 11.16
CLE LAX 2053 573.84 228.19 CO 69.18 DH 1.37 11.11
LAX PIT 2136 515.6 202.88 US 49.82 UA 20.01 9.50
LAX MKE 1756 460 177.83 NW 43.5 NW 43.5 10.13
CLT LAX 2125 451.2 240.78 US 52.92 AA 15.7 11.33
CMH LAX 1996 443.84 192.76 DL 28.54 DL 28.54 9.66
LAX RDU 2239 410.76 201.58 DL 24.95 US 10.64 9.00
LAX SAT 1210 388.13 186.8 WN 51.89 UA 11.29 15.44
BDL LAX 2527 386.81 215.28 UA 26.87 WN 11.84 8.52
CVG LAX 1900 377.58 258.5 DL 80.15 NW 4.83 13.61
ELP LAX 714 313.62 151.4 WN 82.13 HP 14.33 21.20
LAX MEM 1619 308.46 265.02 NW 49.02 AA 17.63 16.37
DAY LAX 1925 285.93 164.43 DL 45.38 DL 45.38 8.54
LAX PVD 2592 283.4 189.18 WN 27.18 WN 27.18 7.30
JAX LAX 2153 271.42 194.7 DL 55.82 DL 55.82 9.04
LAX GEG 945 260.43 161.97 AS 64.17 WN 18.52 17.14
LAX ORF 2371 259.34 198.94 DL 25.93 US 12.37 8.39
LAX OMA 1330 254.83 170.68 UA 31.73 F9 16.55 12.83
BOI LAX 674 246.37 154.49 AS 44.64 AS 44.64 22.92
BUF LAX 2217 228.13 198.63 UA 20.9 US 13.19 8.96
LAX SDF 1842 211.75 213.66 DL 22.72 WN 21.84 11.60
LAX MHT 2587 198.02 187.67 WN 27.91 NW 10.65 7.25
LAX OKC 1187 190.32 196.51 UA 25.05 DL 14.14 16.56
ALB LAX 2467 190.32 185.03 DL 21.53 CO 19.97 7.50
LAX PBI 2330 162.3 203.23 DL 49.83 CO 19.9 8.72
LAX TUL 1283 161.75 184.61 WN 26.63 DL 12.5 14.39
BHM LAX 1815 143.73 214.73 WN 26.6 CO 14.9 11.83
LAX RIC 2305 141.31 262.32 DL 31.8 AA 17.41 11.38
LIT LAX 1494 140.65 210.8 AA 29.37 WN 25.93 14.11
GRR LAX 1874 135.16 221.38 NW 49.18 UA 23.57 11.81
EUR LAX 577 134.61 122.27 QX 74.53 QX 74.53 21.19
GSO LAX 2172 134.39 228.08 DL 34.01 US 21.83 10.50
LAX ROC 2272 133.73 227.87 UA 32.62 DL 11.99 10.03
RSW LAX 2238 125.27 198.42 DL 48.24 CO 24.47 8.87
LAX SYR 2351 123.73 227.34 UA 26.99 US 16.34 9.67
LAX MED 630 121.09 180.62 AS 71.96 UA 15.42 28.67
EUG LAX 748 113.95 167.71 AS 67.02 AS 67.02 22.42
KNO LAX 1949 108.35 228.74 DL 44.62 AA 15.21 11.74
CHS LAX 2206 107.58 236.13 DL 51.78 US 13.27 10.70
LAX MAD 1687 101.97 240.29 NW 46.22 NW 46.22 14.24
JAN LAX 1642 101.86 223.01 WN 27.83 WN 27.83 13.58
FYV LAX 1371 100.98 238.16 AA 86.61 UA 3.15 17.37
DSM LAX 1447 97.03 227.39 UA 46.43 AA 21.17 15.71
HSV LAX 1803 92.19 259.19 DL 39.57 CO 12.15 14.38
LAX PNS 1837 85.49 227.87 DL 53.21 DL 53.21 12.40
LAX SAN 109 82.74 172.19 AA 90.7 UA 2.65 157.97
LAX SAV 2151 81.97 224.2 DL 64.07 DH 1.2 10.42
GNV LAX 2057 77.91 233.62 DL 41.6 NW 11 11.36
LEX LAX 1904 76.04 227.58 DL 60.26 DL 60.26 11.95
LAX RED 501 72.63 124.17 QX 84.72 QX 84.72 24.78
LAX ICT 1203 71.53 215.83 UA 45.16 DL 10.13 17.94
CAE LAX 2130 71.53 223.22 DL 45.92 US 13.82 10.48
BTR LAX 1609 66.15 184.32 DL 30.06 DL 30.06 11.46
LAX SBN 1823 65.82 186.74 DL 44.4 UA 43.73 10.24
LAX PWM 2643 63.51 241.58 DL 32.35 DL 32.35 9.14
FNT LAX 1964 63.51 161.11 DL 46.53 DL 46.53 8.20
BTV LAX 2500 62.41 235.88 UA 41.54 DL 11.44 9.44
LAX MLI 1606 61.31 181.33 NW 41.75 NW 41.75 11.29
COS LAX 833 60.32 235.05 UA 44.8 HP 40.8 28.22
MDT LAX 2320 59.89 277.08 UA 38.71 DL 16.33 11.94
CDR LAX 1551 54.94 260.13 UA 39.8 AA 35.4 16.77
LAX MFE 1318 52.85 208.27 CO 62.78 AA 32.22 15.80
LAX MYR 2257 50.32 229.64 US 35.15 FL 15.72 10.17
FAT LAX 209 49.01 177.62 AA 87.44 AA 87.44 84.99
GPT LAX 1731 45.82 237.44 CO 37.41 DL 27.81 13.72
CRP LAX 1310 44.94 200.47 WN 38.63 WN 38.63 15.30
GRB LAX 1767 44.5 199.2 UA 43.95 UA 43.95 11.27
HRL LAX 1349 44.5 194.39 WN 77.03 WN 77.03 14.41


User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25532 posts, RR: 50
Reply 14, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 1876 times:

Quoting FLYYUL (Reply 11):
Yield must also be looked as a function of stage length

I'm well aware of that. As I've mentioned I just picked some random markets.

Similarly from the DOT reports for instance with AA, LAX-DFW yields 18.11, LAX-JFK 13.15, LAX-STL 10.99, LAX-MIA 10.94.

Quoting FLYYUL (Reply 11):
LAX-SFO, the average fare is $125, which is quite low.

Actually $125 is great revenue. That means the average fare is $250/rt for a 55minute flight each way. As you can tell there is no Southwest style dilution of $39 fares in the LAX-SFO market.

Markets in the US that consistently yield so high are far and few in between, and mainly fall into ones such as into the Northeast as ORD-LGA/DCA and the LGA-BOS/DCA shuttle style routes.


My point and trying to answer the original topic as to "Who is profitable at LAX", I would say most carriers are. LA is a huge O&D market, and at the same time in not a low yield slouch having a good mix of tourism and premium demand.

Lastly while LAX has always been competitive, one rarely sees suicide type fare pricing from exception of the odd ball carrier like FLYi. Pricing while competitive tends to remain sane and in a general range for most routes.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
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