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NZ And QF Will Merge Trans-Tasman Operations  
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12082 posts, RR: 18
Posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 8484 times:
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Just heard on One News and several Stuff newspapers will have it on their front pages tomorrow, that QF and NZ are close to merging their Trans-Tasman operations.

Worst affected airports due to less competition will be WLG and CHC

160 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8544 posts, RR: 13
Reply 1, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 8451 times:
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Quoting 777ER (Thread starter):
Just heard on One News and several Stuff newspapers will have it on their front pages tomorrow, that QF and NZ are close to merging their Trans-Tasman operations.

haven't we been here before , at least once ... remember "Air share" ? wonder how long it will last this time , assuming that it actually gets clearance from the Commerce Commission



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User currently offlineSpinalTap From New Zealand, joined Mar 2005, 440 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 8437 times:

CHC would still have some competition on all the Tasman routes except the Gold Coast (DJ to SYD/MEL/BNE and EK to SYD) but WLG would lack competition on all routes except BNE. For this reason I doubt it will get past the NZ commerce commission.


"I get what they call a stipend, a stipend is like money but its such as small amount they don't really call it money"
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12082 posts, RR: 18
Reply 3, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 8408 times:
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Maybe this could encourage DJ to re-enter WLG-SYD and could result in JQ operations from WLG sooner then expected

User currently offlineNzrich From New Zealand, joined Dec 2005, 1521 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 8310 times:

Well IF this did happen it actually wouldnt really impact CHC at all as QF only have a once daily service to SYD and thats it .. rest are operated by JQ syd/mel/bne/ool ..WLG and AKL would actually be hit more than CHC


"Pride of the pacific"
User currently offlineSunriseValley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 4889 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 8259 times:

I can't believe that they are "floating" this again without having run it past the Commerce Commission.
I advocated sometime ago that both carriers should roll their trans-Tasman and Pacific Islands business's into a new low cost company and rationalise the services.
There will still be competition on the main routes; just so long as they do not jack the prices on the less popular routes, and I am sure that the Commission would warn them on that. The price of a ticket from Hamilton to Cairns should not be too much different on a seat mile basis than a WLG-BNE ticket.


User currently offlineMotorHussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 3140 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 8225 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 3):
Maybe this could encourage DJ to re-enter WLG-SYD and could result in JQ operations from WLG sooner then expected

I don't think QF would let JQ take over on the WLG-MEL and the WLG-SYD routes as they're heavy with business traffic, but BNE and the Gold Coast, for sure. And bring back Virgin on the WLG-SYD route (hopefully WLG-MEL too).



come visit the south pacific
User currently offline767ER From Australia, joined Apr 2001, 1092 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (8 years 4 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 8099 times:

Yes that did if from 1990 - 1995/96 when it all fell apart. I recall QF - with NZ codesharing - almost all SYD -WLG - Syd flights. Not sure how they would do it this tiem as QG were flying 763s into WLG in those days.


Aircraft flown:F27,Viscount. EMB120, SAAB340, ATR70, 737-200.737-300,DC8, DC10,747-100,747-200,747-300,747-400, A320, A3
User currently offlineBroocy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 4 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 8064 times:

Given that there is vast over-capacity on the Tasman routes, rationalisation makes sense. The Dom Post quoted Air NZ as saying the over capacity equates to 11 empty A320 flights.

A codeshare between the two airlines is nothing new, so there should be no reason to decline it as there is historical precedence of its existence. Given that out of WLG and CHC there is little real choice in departure times, it's either roughly 6am-7am or 2pm-4pm because the airlines can fit in two round Tasman trips per day on this type of operation, it might open up the chance of more choice in flight times.

The reason that they have not floated it past the Commerce Commission yet is because, according to the media, they are still in the process of finalising the arrangements of how the codeshare operations will work. These arrangements will be part of the submission they make to the Commerce Commission.


User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4807 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (8 years 4 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 7915 times:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=1&ObjectID=10375170

herald article about it.



56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlineAntskip From Australia, joined Jan 2006, 927 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (8 years 4 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 7805 times:

Quoting Broocy (Reply 8):
over capacity equates to 11 empty A320 flights

I suppose they mean in comparison with 100% full capacity? if so the comparison should really be with 75% capacity, as that is NZ's norm across the network. How many flight in total are there across the Tasman? That answer would help to gauge what level of occupancy they're getting at the moment, and what would be a reasonable target.


User currently offlineFlyjetstar From Australia, joined Feb 2006, 951 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 4 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 7676 times:

It seems the way to go. It appears as if there is enough competition for other airlines to negate any concerns on that front.

User currently offlinePulkovokiwi From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 4 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 7662 times:

Glad I don't live in Wellington with just the choice of two very mediocre airlines across the ditch.

User currently offlineAntskip From Australia, joined Jan 2006, 927 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (8 years 4 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 7613 times:

In the SMH today we have the CEO of Pacific Blue coming out against the QF-NZ Tasman plans:
"Tony Marks, chief executive of rival Pacific Blue, said the move would give Air NZ and Qantas an 80 percent share of the market. The airlines were likely to offer fewer, larger flights, lessening competition and making price hikes inevitable. "This particular mechanism has been used before and looks like it is being resurrected from the graveyard," Mr Marks told NZPA."
http://www.smh.com.au/news/business/...lue/2006/03/30/1143441247162.html.

I don't know how a partnership that runs 80% of the Tasman traffic is anything but bad for competion and for passengers. If NZ or QF are running too many empty planes the obvious thing for them to do is to fly fewer planes. They can't blame anyone but themselves...though of course they do. They still want the good old days when they had the Tasman to themselves and charged what they liked and offered whatever level of service they felt like. And we, having no alternatives, had to like it or lump it.


User currently offlinePulkovokiwi From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 4 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 7603 times:

I hope the Commerce commissions of both countries block it. The queues at the EK counter at AKL yesterday afternoon clearly indicates the preference of Aucklanders at least,Trans Tasman is EK.

User currently offlineFlyjetstar From Australia, joined Feb 2006, 951 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 4 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 7575 times:

Quoting Pulkovokiwi (Reply 14):
I hope the Commerce commissions of both countries block it. The queues at the EK counter at AKL yesterday afternoon clearly indicates the preference of Aucklanders at least,Trans Tasman is EK.

The long queues at AKL for EK don't indicate that at all. You can't take what you saw at AKL yesterday and draw a conclusion like that.

Quoting Pulkovokiwi (Reply 12):
Glad I don't live in Wellington with just the choice of two very mediocre airlines across the ditch.

That is your opinion and you are entitled to it. If that is the case then DJ, EK and JQ will jump in and they will have more airlines to choose from. But really if that was the case then they would have already. IIRC DJ in fact dropped some services from WLG. Maybe QF and NZ aren't so mediocre.


User currently offlinePulkovokiwi From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 4 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 7547 times:

I am sure the Christchurch and Wellington City Councils will make every effort to stop this proposed arrangement.

User currently offlineFlyjetstar From Australia, joined Feb 2006, 951 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 4 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 7533 times:

Quoting Pulkovokiwi (Reply 16):
I am sure the Christchurch and Wellington City Councils will make every effort to stop this proposed arrangement.

Because why?


User currently offlinePulkovokiwi From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 4 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 7513 times:

Because its against the interests of their residents and exporters.And I am sure Infratil will jump on the bandwagon in respect of WLG and make active approaches to Jetstar and Pacific Blue. They can forget SJ thats just NZ in drag!

User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8544 posts, RR: 13
Reply 19, posted (8 years 4 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 7497 times:
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Quoting Pulkovokiwi (Reply 18):
and make active approaches to Jetstar and Pacific Blue. They can forget SJ thats just NZ in drag!

if SJ is NZ in drag then surely Jetstar is also QF in drag leaving Pacific Blue as the only independent option



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User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12082 posts, RR: 18
Reply 20, posted (8 years 4 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 7471 times:
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Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 6):
and the Gold Coast

QF don't serve OOL from WLG, only from CHC with JQ

Quoting Pulkovokiwi (Reply 12):
Glad I don't live in Wellington with just the choice of two very mediocre airlines across the ditch.

NZ, QF, SJ and DJ

Quoting Pulkovokiwi (Reply 14):
The queues at the EK counter at AKL yesterday afternoon clearly indicates the preference of Aucklanders at least,Trans Tasman is EK.

That doesn't mean EK is the prefernece, with only one flight to SYD, MEL and BNE it doesn;t really count. If EK had more flights then there would be less queues. Simon obviously by your comments so far today shows your time-out didnt teach you anything

[Edited 2006-03-30 12:16:12]

User currently offlineAerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7172 posts, RR: 13
Reply 21, posted (8 years 4 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 7442 times:

Quoting Pulkovokiwi (Reply 14):
The queues at the EK counter at AKL yesterday afternoon clearly indicates the preference of Aucklanders at least,Trans Tasman is EK.

3 widebody flights departing so close together will always mean queues like EK has, especially at an airport like AKL, which isn't set up for any large numbers of passengers.


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12082 posts, RR: 18
Reply 22, posted (8 years 4 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 7441 times:
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Quoting Aerorobnz (Reply 21):
Quoting Pulkovokiwi (Reply 14):
The queues at the EK counter at AKL yesterday afternoon clearly indicates the preference of Aucklanders at least,Trans Tasman is EK.

3 widebody flights departing so close together will always mean queues like EK has, especially at an airport like AKL, which isn't set up for any large numbers of passengers.

And that is from a member who works in the check-in area at AKL


User currently offlineJoFMO From Germany, joined Jul 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (8 years 4 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 7382 times:

Some days ago I posted the article regarding a possible Tamasek (SQ) stake in VirginBlue.

What effect could that have on a proposed QF/NZ Tasman codeshare?

Why doesn't NZ wait till Tamasak has taken it's stake in VirginBlue and initiate a far reaching codesharing with them over the Tasman and further into Australia?

From my point of view trans Tasman fares are already much higher than other three hour flights in Europe or North America.


User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8544 posts, RR: 13
Reply 24, posted (8 years 4 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 7375 times:
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Quoting JoFMO (Reply 23):
Some days ago I posted the article regarding a possible Tamasek (SQ) stake in VirginBlue.

What effect could that have on a proposed QF/NZ Tasman codeshare?

Why doesn't NZ wait till Tamasak has taken it's stake in VirginBlue and initiate a far reaching codesharing with them over the Tasman and further into Australia?

Hi JoFMO

both NZ and QF are ( if you believe them ) bleeding red ink on the Tasman so they need to do something . As you said the stake is possible . I dont think NZ can sit and do nothing while waiting for a hypothetical stake to happen ( if things are as bad as they say ) - in any case relations between NZ and SQ are distinctly frosty so there is no guarantee that SQ gaining influence with DJ would necessarily work to NZs advantage .



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
25 SpinalTap : Listening to the news tonight it would seem that if NZ/QF come to a deal it will most likely not be blocked by the NZ commerce commission or ASIC beca
26 JoFMO : Well, I even think NZ should ask VirginBlue, whatever might happen with them in regard to SQ. I must say, if NZ really has so much problems over the T
27 Nzrich : Why would CHC worry there is only ONE overlaping flight in CHC as QF has pulled out of chc exc for 1 daily SYD flight rest has gone to JQ Ok we could
28 Antskip : Both EK and NZ, according to their annual reports, have an average across-the-fleet occupancy of 75%. So surely would apply to the fleets in general,
29 Aerokiwi : All of these are essentially correct and I'd say "drag" is the best way of describing it. What I find interesting is how NZ and QF distinguish their
30 Flyjetstar : Mate you can't have it both ways. On another thread you were commenting about taxpayers being shareholders in NZ and spending our money badly now as
31 Post contains links Antskip : The NZ Consumers Institute claims that travel agents, airports and consumer groups are against the NZ-QF trans-Tasman de-facto marriage plan: http://w
32 Aerokiwi : Yes, I can. You're simply confusing the context. The other thread concerns flippant and unnecessary spending during tight financial times. This threa
33 Flyjetstar : But what if they have done that and now there are no options left. NZ have lowered prices for Tasman routes but in a competitive environment there is
34 Aerokiwi : I'm not sure if you can consider a reasoned opinion as extreme in any sense. By definition, any opinion is "extreme" because it adopts one opinion ov
35 SunriseValley : I would argue that this point of view is not necessarily correct. I agree the choice will probably be less but there is no reason why existing fares
36 Aerokiwi : The Canadian market is a hardly a fair comparison, especially the route you are describing. I think a fairer comparison would be US transcon flights.
37 Flyjetstar : I meant that you don't seem to be open to other peoples ideas. I was referring to LCC having a different cost base/market/expectations than a carrier
38 Broocy : Quite easily I believe. When ticket coupons are flown, they can track the revenue per sector. That is how revenue is divided between airlines on mult
39 NZ1 : As were the lines at QF and NZ. Your statement is pointless. I am wondering why you bothered to join the a.net community in the 1st place. Those hemo
40 Antskip : Spot on. They are offering too many seats. The solution is to reduce the number of seats available so that loads improve. They know that if they redu
41 Zkpilot : Er no.... That just indicates that EK uses an external ground handler (Menzies) rather than having their own like NZ does. What it shows is that when
42 Pulkovokiwi : AKL_SIN by NZ has never been a threat to SQ. Never was never will be. Crappy old 767 against 744. The new 772 by NZ may be an improvement but it hasnt
43 Pulkovokiwi : NZ1 you have it so wrong and your pro NZ bias is so obvious. The lines at AKL were just about out the door for EK and TG. Couldnt say the same for NZ
44 Pulkovokiwi : Why is that the NZ staffers on this site cannot take constructive criticism of their employer? I got an email from an a.netter in the USA who had also
45 Post contains images 777ER : Then why are you flying NZ81 to SIN shortly then? Hey guys.....we have an NZ lover here Why don't you get your facts correct before opening your non
46 Zkpilot : and that is why the SQ CEO said that NZ now has the best business class product and that SQ is going to have to do something to beat it!
47 Aerorobnz : Emirates goes at a similar times as our US flights open, let me tell you now, those flights go right out the disney queues daily. I know, because I p
48 ZK-NBT : Not to sure about that, the loads I have heard of late on AKL-SIN for NZ have been good already up quite a bit some days on what they carried on the
49 B744Heavy : I have been reading all of this with much interest. I dont post messages very much but read here daily. Opinions and Views are interesting to read, bu
50 NZ1 : As stated by a fellow a.netter, I am not aircrew. Yes I am bias. I work for a great airline and am proud to say so. I will defend NZ to the hilt, but
51 Post contains images 777ER : Let the war begin
52 Nzrich : One of the Major reasons NZ gets so much of the traffic across the tasman is because it has the quantity of flights it does to offer it passengers an
53 Zkpilot : Yes TG pays for NZ to do their ground handling. They have a minimum level of service agreement, which means a certain # of checkin agents must be the
54 JoFMO : During my last visit at SYD I saw an NZ 744 departing. I akso know that they fly 744 from AKL to MEL and BNE on certain days. So if they cnat fill wid
55 Zkpilot : They are a single flight each with 744s and they are connecting flights coming down LAX-AKL-MEL for example. These flights are actually often full. I
56 JoFMO : If a 744 is full, how can an A320 be so empty that you get an overall load factor of 70%? Can somebody deliver me the math for a route like SYD-AKL wi
57 Nzrich : One reason for using the wide bodies on the tasman is the arrive in from Asia or America in the morning and dont often fly back to America till that
58 Kiwiandrew : perhaps the 744 is full because it is bringing pax from the US and Europe at that time of day while the A320 flights during the rest of the day are r
59 Zkpilot : that is pretty much the exact reason
60 Antskip : Thanks for helpful comments! I can see now why NZ and QF want to merge trans-Tasman more urgently than the rest of their networks. Though it is more
61 Zkpilot : QF has less flights but uses 767. QF gets a lot more J class pax though as they are still full service, NZ gets the Business class pax that a) don't r
62 Antskip : Thanks, Zkpilot! Are there any problems with QF and NZ being part of different code-sharing alliances? If they belonged to the same alliance, the whol
63 Nzrich : NZ went into Star when they owned Ansett What NZ really needs is to be able to code share on a airline in Australia for domestic flights ...
64 Zkpilot : Yeah thats pretty much it, and yes it was to have one in each alliance, although prior to NZ joining Star the stake holders were QF, AA, JL quite fun
65 Planemanofnz : This is all very interesting. Any ideaon a time scale of when this is going to happen. I think this will prove beneficial for both carriers. Would QF
66 Aerokiwi : So then where do they get off bemoaning their low load factors? If they're going to stick such a large aircraft on the route because it's cheaper tha
67 Aerorobnz : The ironic thing is that when all the airlines flying into AKL band together against the AIAL they consider the AIALs monopolistic tactics fine, desp
68 Zkpilot : Somebody woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning.... Of course NZ uses the figures to its advantage... as does every other airline! I bet t
69 777ER : I can't work out why air fares would rise during peak times. More competition at certain times mean cheaper fares as the airlines fight to win your b
70 Post contains links Antskip : The Australian newspaper today reports that the Australian Consumers Association has also come out against the proposal for a Tasman merger between QF
71 Aerokiwi : Ahhh there's that Kiwi attitude of "there must be something wrong with you if you disagree with the official line" that I love sooo much. Awesome. If
72 Zkpilot : I was implying that they would increase in the off peak times, but also in the on peak times as all airlines would have higher load factors in the pe
73 Zkpilot : No, thats the attitude that you should be directing more constructive criticism at this rather than taking on another famous attitude...that of the w
74 Aerokiwi : The "constructive criticism" argument is often that of the timid and rarely achieves anything but stalemate and zero-progress (ever heard of the cons
75 Zkpilot : Back then it was only NZ and QF flying the Tasman... Now there is the global behemoth that is EK, as well as several other airlines with low wage cos
76 Aerorobnz : I can make common sense decisions without their input. The fact is they exist to prevent the gullible & feebleminded members of society from thinking
77 Aerokiwi : I think you may have just contradicted yourself. Aren't you being spoonfed the garbage from the airlines? To denigrate a very worthwhile institution
78 Aerorobnz : No, I've weighed it up based on the facts given from a number of sources, and decided that the best thing for me personally is for my company to make
79 Aerokiwi : I simply disagree with this. This is the attitude that has driven so many legacy carriers in the US into bankrupcy. And as much as NZ behaves like it
80 SunriseValley : I must repeat what I said in an earlier posting, there is absolutely no basis for the argument that fares will rise automatically if QF and NZ get the
81 RichardJF : Perception of choice is a far bigger deal than amount of capacity out of cities like WLG and CHC. If you can run QF,NZ,JQ,SJ and DJ brands you get aro
82 Mr AirNZ : Air fares rise during peak times because more people want to fly (hence peak time). Competition does little (at least at peak times), most peak time
83 ZK-NBT : That makes sense, but i'm sure the traffic SYD/AKL going through to EZE or SCL is quite profitable for both carriers, even though some say its a very
84 Pacific777 : Right now with fuel surcharges going up and the NZ dollar going downagainst the Aussie$ a colaboration of services across the tasman is not something
85 Airnewzealand : Aerobnz i have to disagree with some of your comments... Regarding LA making money across the pond is incorrect.. they are in the red... recently anno
86 AerorobNZ : So you think that when the customer turns up late to their gate/late to check in, and costs the airlines a minimum of $1000 a minute for any delays i
87 ZK-NBT : Ah ok cheers Aerorob! Slots hmm, is it to do with whatever bilateral there is between NZ and Indonesia? Hmm, it sort of doesn't surprise me that to be
88 Simpilicity : if QF or actually Jetstar who operate many of QF's Trans-Tasman services now, codeshared with NZ or Freedom Air, they wouldn't need Commerce Commissi
89 Kiwiandrew : why do you say they wouldn't need approval ?
90 DJ738 : AKL is such a "satellite" operation for DJ with no actual company management based there. Hence I severely doubt that our company's financial informa
91 Post contains images Zkpilot : I agree with most of what you have said except for this... $2million?? where did u get that figure from?? Say on average there are 100-120 pax on boa
92 Nzrich : Totally agree with you the commerce commision is there to make sure the consumer benefits in the end ..Its sole reason is to protect the consumer lon
93 777ER : Considering NZ and QF code-shared back in the 80s and 90s then they wont' need permission, even the commerce commission have said it
94 Kiwiandrew : old permissions are not necessarily 'grandfathered' as circumstances change - any codeshare agreement will be a new agreement and will need if not ap
95 Aerokiwi : I'm not saying the customer isn't annoying, but most of what you point out has to do with airline processes. That's right, the process of online book
96 Zkpilot : I'm sorry but does anyone think that Tasmania is a big tourist destination? (its not btw) That is what New Zealand would end up like if NZ is not aro
97 Aerokiwi : Oh boo hoo. Actually there was a very well reasoned argument back when NZ almost collapsed that New Zealand doesn't really need its own international
98 Antskip : EK does.
99 TG992 : Antskip, you really are a bit of an EK cheerleader aren't you.. Out of interest, what advertising does EK do that promotes NZ as a holiday destination
100 Antskip : I have seen EK promotions for travel to New Zealand in regular newspaper ads, occasional television ads, as well as train stations in Melbourne. I th
101 777ER : EK does with their sponsership of Team New Zealand The airlines could sideline the Commerce Commission ruling and its supporting High Court judgment,
102 TG992 : I would argue that the boats are floating billboards for Emirates, rather than New Zealand.
103 Zkpilot : Yes it was funded by the NZ govt (and airlines such as EK, QF, SQ, etc use it to their advantage since they don't pay towards it). NZ spends its own
104 Aerokiwi : Feel free to point me towards a source that compares the spending with the 100 percent pure campaign. I would be extremely interested to see if Air N
105 Post contains links Flyjetstar : http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3631046a13,00.html Some more thinking on the proposal from The Press
106 Simpilicity : All they have to do is annouce it which NZ have just done apparently, but with no start date mentioned. With the NZ economy & dollar going down the t
107 Post contains links Antskip : Some more: "Air New Zealand aims to conclude a trans-Tasman deal with Qantas this month or it will walk away from talks, says chief executive Rob Fyf
108 777ER : Unless the Australians do what they have recently done with EK by stopping EKs plans about flying PER-AKL. NZ/QF and DJ are in different boats
109 Post contains links Antskip : Expect an announcement from QF and NZ today: http://www.smh.com.au/news/business/...ack/2006/04/11/1144521332541.html.
110 Post contains links Antskip : The agreement has been signed. http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3636038a13,00.html
111 Post contains links 777ER : http://tvnz.co.nz/view/page/411749/700165
112 Planemanofnz : Just saw the documentary about it on Campbell Live, seems like the proposal will be a success for both airlines. How will the deal affect Melbourne an
113 Post contains links ZKNEA : The world is bigger than the east coast of Australia, or Brisbane for that matter. I have seen substantial advertising (substantial considering New Z
114 NZ107 : Well... Air NZ has just started flying there... It's going to be a difficult choice but then again they could just switch passengers to the other fli
115 ZK-NBT : Not anymore they don't, it's now operated by Jetconnect, operating 3x weekly. AKL 0915 ADL 1130-1235 AKL 1915 I've been wondering the same thing, 2 A
116 Simpilicity : Bad news for consumers. Maybe the ACCC will try & stop it, but as usual they r a toothless tiger.
117 NZ1 : I disagree. I think it will be GREAT for the general public. More choice of flights etc. I don't think it has to be approved by the ACCC or the NZ Co
118 Simpilicity : sorry I should clarify. Less flights not more (u add the NZ & QF fligths now & when they codeshare, there will be less, much less) & average fare wil
119 Aerokiwi : While I'm in the camp believing this deal should not go ahead (sooooo many reasons I have already argued above), I have to question your association
120 Simpilicity : whatever, but everyone's talking the economy down in NZ, 20% + fall in growth & the NZD$ is taking a dive at the same time. Eg. We can't believe how
121 Post contains links Antskip : An article in the Melbourne Age newspaper today,,part of which is at http://www.theage.com.au/news/busine...es/2006/04/12/1144521400784.html., gives a
122 Zkpilot : That is actually inaccurate... NZ is repaying QF $98,000,000. When the airlines looked at merging last time QF bought convertable options (time limit
123 Koruman : And suddenly Air NZ's A320s are looking like a white elephant. The 747 and 777 aircraft will still fly the Tasman between their am arrival from SFO, L
124 Zkpilot : Maybe, maybe not. They are still the most cost effective a/c operating across the Tasman. A320s are in high demand around the world, and NZ leases mo
125 Post contains images Kiwiandrew : so long as they keep them at least until Sep 2008 so that NZ can celebrate 40 years of 737 service
126 Antskip : Thanks, Zkpilot, for clarifying things. It is not very good reporting from the Age if they got the figures so wrong. They definitely claimed only 2 l
127 Post contains links SunriseValley : I agree. NZ will need to sub-lease many more than 2 to get the fleet to a size to reflect the proposed reality. As for using them domestically, they
128 Zkpilot : Yeah I'll see if I can get some better figures at work, although obviously at this stage a lot of it is commercially sensitive. That 2 flights for QF
129 Travelin man : I have a simple question: When has two "almost"-monopolistic entities coordinating schedules and pricing EVER benefited the consumer? I can understand
130 NZFan : That's a nice and simplistic way of seeing things but i'm sure there is a lot more to that. Yes you can fly a 747 and you probably have to at peak ti
131 Travelin man : If you can't do it profitably, that's exactly what you do: Let the customers go on your competitor. You are making my point for me. TG, EK, etc etc a
132 Post contains links Antskip : The National paper the Australian also reported the same figures, http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...ry/0,20867,18800124-23349,00.html.
133 Post contains images Zkpilot : As mentioned above by NZFan there are times when 747s are needed due to the demand at peak times... there are 3 daily peaks across the Tasman when ev
134 NZFan : Sure, and at the same time give your competitor the chance to grow bigger than you. That sounds like pretty wise business to me. TG doesn't have the
135 Travelin man : I manage many airline contracts for my company, including a contract with Air New Zealand. I know FAR more about airline schedules and pricing than y
136 NZFan : and that is the exact reason for the arrangment between NZ/QF. keep marketshare and remain profitable. and as ZKPilot said, there competition aplenty
137 ZK-NBT : TG no longer fly across the Tasman. What I heard is that NZ will have 63% more flights with the QF deal but obviously that means less overall flights
138 Flyjetstar : How come this isn't what US carriers do? How many unprofitable airlines are operating in the US only surviving because of Chapter 11 or time in Chapt
139 777ER : The interesting question is, what will happen with the NZ/QF flights out of WLG? Will QF also put JQ in WLG? With airports like WLG with basically no
140 Flyjetstar : The WLG question is an interesting one. I am assuming that there simply isn't the demand for flights from WLG to Australia otherwise DJ, SJ and mayeb
141 AerorobNZ : The interesting thing will be to see what becomes of NZ5/6 & QF25/26 AKL-MEL-AKL. Both 744s stopping over in AKL, one would think that these flights w
142 777ER : When DJ operated daily WLG-SYD flights, those flights were very popular, but DJ axed WLG-SYD so they could start flights from AKL. JQ doesnt operate
143 ZK-NBT : Hmm, QF could make its AKL-LAX flight originate in SYD and maybe take away a couple of the non stop 744's SYD-LAX and put them on additional MEL-LAX
144 Flyjetstar : So can one assume that DJ decided AKL was a more valuble market than WLG?
145 777ER : DJ still has WLG-BNE
146 Zeke : Got this via email from another QF person.... QANTAS AND AIR NEW ZEALAND SIGN TASMAN AGREEMENT SYDNEY, 12 April 2006: Qantas and Air New Zealand today
147 Antskip : The quoted text is just a copy of the news release/spin posted on the QANTAS web site, 12th April.
148 Zkpilot : and once again I will remind you that the services across the Tasman using 747s are usually full or have high load factors. It is the offpeak flights
149 Zkpilot : mostly thru traffic to/from Australia/US (except in NZ6case)
150 Post contains links Flyjetstar : The Sunday Star-Times editorial has a go at the plan today. http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/sundays...rtimes/0,2106,3638319a6619,00.html I don't think it
151 NZFan : Personally, I think that the NZ Herald is pretty hopeless at best when it comes to news and stories, but then when it comes to think of the Sunday St
152 Post contains links Antskip : Wellington airport as well as the Wellington Chmber of Commerece is also arguing against the proposal. The article makes interesting reason. http://ww
153 Flyjetstar : Forgive me for being hard nosed but maybe what WLG experiences is the reality of being a city where no one wants to fly to. Thats isn't a reflection
154 SunriseValley : Mr Draper is the spokesperson for the Airport authority which is controlled by Infrasill (sp) a privately owned company that has created an extravaga
155 Antskip : NZ have said they aim for a 74% load factor for the Tasman with code-sharing, so seeking 80+% is extravagant. NZ's long-haul (not the Tasman) load fa
156 SunriseValley : So let WLG actively court whatever Virgin iteration flies the Tasman and make it attractive for them to fly the route. Why is Virgin not flying the W
157 777ER : Maybe the main reason is because of the stupid runway length. EK was wanting to fly to WLG a few years ago and were even considering using an A332, b
158 Mr AirNZ : Airports make this claim yet I have had no involvement in any aircraft being weight retricted due runway length. Zero Fuel Weight limited heaps of ti
159 Antskip : Noticed a full-page colour advertisement by EK promoting New Zealand as a destination in the Weekend Australian Magazine 29-30 April.
160 Post contains images Zkpilot : wow... that must have cost them lots... guess their loadings must have been dropping...
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