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RJ Landing Gear Not Retracted At DCA Today?  
User currently offlineGeorgetown From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 243 posts, RR: 1
Posted (8 years 9 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4771 times:
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Hey all,

I was walking along the waterfront in Georgetown today around noon and noticed an RJ departing from DCA up the Potomac with its landing gear down (long after it should have been retracted). As it was well past Rosslyn, I couldn't tell if it was an ERJ or CRJ, nor the airline. There's no way that its gear should have still been down at that point unless something was wrong. Did anyone else see this or hear anything about it? Thanks!


Let's go Hoyas!
26 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 9 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4747 times:

Landing gear is sometimes left extended for a period of time, but it's much more common to see that with longhaul widebodies than it is for a RJ.

Another possibility, somewhat remote, is that the aircraft was a gear down maintenance ferry, going from DCA to the airline's facility...


User currently offlineSkyexramper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (8 years 9 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 4633 times:

I once watched one of our B1900Ds depart MKE and climb out of sight (well over 5000') with its gear down, this was a revenue flight...crew forgot to raise the gear..oopps...

User currently offlineB6JFKH81 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2902 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (8 years 9 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4622 times:

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 1):
but it's much more common to see that with longhaul widebodies than it is for a RJ.

I saw a 747 depart JFK yesterday and it didn't bring up its gear all the way until it was out of sight..then I am hoping it retracted its gear!



"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6428 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (8 years 9 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4613 times:

Quoting Skyexramper (Reply 2):
I once watched one of our B1900Ds depart MKE and climb out of sight (well over 5000') with its gear down, this was a revenue flight...crew forgot to raise the gear..oopps...

Should be readily apparent when they trim out for cruise and can't reach the correct indicated airspeed...
 Wink



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineAvConsultant From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1360 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (8 years 9 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4613 times:

I now the CRJ has a problem if the towbar is not disconnected properly. The nose gear will not retract. Then agian, it could have been a "gear-down" maintenance ferry.

User currently offlineJsposaune From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 293 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (8 years 9 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4510 times:

I suppose it could also have been a "go-around". (missed approach) In that airspace, I could see how a crew could be distracted and forget the gear until a bit later.


There are no stupid questions....only stupid people!!!
User currently offlineUAL Bagsmasher From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 2148 posts, RR: 10
Reply 7, posted (8 years 9 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4473 times:

The BTMS may have been MEL'd, requiring the gear to be left down for a bit before retraction to ensure cool brakes.

User currently offlineL1329II From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 9 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4363 times:

Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 5):
I now the CRJ has a problem if the towbar is not disconnected properly. The nose gear will not retract

This has to do with not removing the nose gear pin. This particular pin is about 1/4 in diameter and about 8" long.

Having worked at an FBO I saw a VERY embarrassed CL-600 pilot taxi back to the ramp after getting a call from the tower that another A/C noticed the red remove before flight flag flapping in the wind.


User currently offlineErjdrvr From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 2 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 9 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4303 times:

sometimes we leave the gear down when the brakes are hot, once they cool the gear is retracted. we don't like hot things near the fuel tanks. why do you guys always asume we are screwing up  Smile

erj 170 Capt. Shuttle America


User currently offlineMrMcCoy From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 377 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (8 years 9 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4285 times:

Quoting Erjdrvr (Reply 9):
why do you guys always asume we are screwing up

Welcome to a.net.. It's one of the unfortunate sides of a forum like this, but the benefits outweigh the drawbacks.  Smile



It only takes five years to go from rumor to standard operating procedure.
User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8956 posts, RR: 60
Reply 11, posted (8 years 9 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4279 times:
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Quoting Erjdrvr (Reply 9):
why do you guys always asume we are screwing up

Just taking the FAA's lead....  Wink




2H4





Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlineErjdrvr From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 2 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 9 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4262 times:

and here to help, right?

User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8956 posts, RR: 60
Reply 13, posted (8 years 9 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4251 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR




Quoting Erjdrvr (Reply 12):
and here to help, right?

Of course! Fast, friendly, streamlined efficiency...

Anyway, welcome to a.net, and thanks for bringing some flight deck insight to the forums.  Smile




2H4





Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlineGeorgetown From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 243 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (8 years 9 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 4193 times:
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I'll take hot brakes as an answer....I didn't even consider a screw up as an option, I'd trust a pilot more than a brain surgeon as his/her life is as much on the line as mine is!


Let's go Hoyas!
User currently offlineSkyexramper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 9 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4094 times:

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 4):
Should be readily apparent when they trim out for cruise and can't reach the correct indicated airspeed...

Damn it F/O why aren't we excelerating past 120kts...what the heck! Since when did the 1900 fly like a J31.  airplane   Silly

[Edited 2006-03-30 16:37:33]

User currently offlineLapper From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2002, 1568 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (8 years 9 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4083 times:

Quoting UAL Bagsmasher (Reply 7):
The BTMS may have been MEL'd

Can I get a translation on that please?


User currently offlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6120 posts, RR: 14
Reply 17, posted (8 years 9 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4057 times:

Quoting Lapper (Reply 16):
Can I get a translation on that please?

Brake Tempurature Monitoring System.

The MEL (A deferred maintainance item per the Minimum Equipment List) in question requires that the landing gear be left in the down position for 10 minutes after departure—regardless of time on the ground— and the aircraft must be able to fly in clear air (no visible moisture, to prevent ice build up) in order to facilitate the proper cooling of the braking elements on the wheels prior to being retracted into the wheel well. This is done due to the possibility of the wheels catching fire due to overheating. If the BTMS is inoperative, then the crew would have no way of knowing that the wheels are indeed too hot to retract into the wheel well, and this alternate procedure is applied to meet the requirements of that MEL.



Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31712 posts, RR: 56
Reply 18, posted (8 years 9 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4044 times:

I'd vouch for Hot brakes too.Cooling using Relative Wind  Smile
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1938 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (8 years 9 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3988 times:
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Quoting L1329II (Reply 8):
This has to do with not removing the nose gear pin. This particular pin is about 1/4 in diameter and about 8" long.

I only can speak for Delta COnnection, and we don't use steering bypass pins for CRJ's they disconnect something in the back (I don't know what because I have never done it before) and when pushback is finished they reconnect it.



The only valid opinions are those based in facts
User currently offlineLapper From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2002, 1568 posts, RR: 7
Reply 20, posted (8 years 9 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3979 times:

Thanks Goldenshield. Does that mean then on a wet day, the plane has to be taken above the clouds before the landing gear can be retracted?

User currently offlineLapper From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2002, 1568 posts, RR: 7
Reply 21, posted (8 years 9 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3963 times:

Thanks Goldenshield. Does that mean then on a wet day, the plane has to be taken above the clouds before the landing gear can be retracted?

User currently offlineApodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4317 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (8 years 9 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3947 times:

Quoting Lapper (Reply 21):
Thanks Goldenshield. Does that mean then on a wet day, the plane has to be taken above the clouds before the landing gear can be retracted?

No, what it means is on a wet day the plane is parked until the problem is fixed.



Quoting UAL Bagsmasher (Reply 7):
The BTMS may have been MEL'd, requiring the gear to be left down for a bit before retraction to ensure cool brakes.

If it was from DCA there was a good chance it was a ZW plane. IIRC, we had one plane with the main landing gear bay overheat mel, which also requires the gear to be down for ten minutes after takeoff.


User currently offlineL1329II From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (8 years 9 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3917 times:

Quoting FlyDeltaJets (Reply 19):
I only can speak for Delta COnnection, and we don't use steering bypass pins for CRJ's they disconnect something in the back (I don't know what because I have never done it before) and when pushback is finished they reconnect it.

Interesting. Of course I was referring to the corporate version of the CL-600. 600, 601, 604 etc.

Thanks for the info.


User currently offlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6120 posts, RR: 14
Reply 24, posted (8 years 9 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3912 times:

After reviewing the MEL's, the Gear bay overheat is the most likely cause, and not the BTMS (I never said that it was in my originaly post. I was just clarifying.) If GBOH and BTMS are inop, then the flight must be flown gear down the whole flight, which means a slower airspeed and low altidude, and there are few carriers that I know of willing to provide that high of a fuel burn to get the customers to their destination.


Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
25 A10WARTHOG : On the CRJ's the torque links are disconnected. On ERJ's there is a switch that can be used on the outside of the aircraft to disable the steering or
26 Post contains images IAHFLYR : You want to be leading the FAA? mmmm
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