Ba777-236 From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 673 posts, RR: 5 Posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 5665 times:
Last year there was an article in a Toronto newspaper about the crash of Air Canada flight 621 on July 5, 1970 at YYZ. The flight crashed after premature spoiler deployment on approach to the airport. The article stated that there was a book to be publised about the accident.
Does anyone know if this book has been published or have any information on it. There is a old thread (Air Canada Flight 621: 34 Years Later) here on Airliners.net about the crash that is very informative and detailed. It even has eyewitness accounts from people who witnessed the accident that day.
I like British Airways! I'm not sure why, but I do! ;-)
Dc863 From Denmark, joined Jun 1999, 1554 posts, RR: 2 Reply 1, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 5573 times:
Should be an interesting book when it come out. The pre-mature landing tore off one engine, then during the go around phase, two explosions from one of the DC-8-63's wing tanks ripped the right wing off. Routing was Montreal-Toronto-LAX.
JetCaptain From Canada, joined Dec 2000, 234 posts, RR: 1 Reply 2, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 5511 times:
The Toronto Star has an archive page on their website that you can use to look at old papers (all the way back to 1894). If you seach for "Flight 621" you'll find over 75 pages covering this accident. It costs a few bucks, but it's worth checking out.
BOAC707 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 278 posts, RR: 2 Reply 3, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 5349 times:
I knew the co-pilot of this flight while growing up in Montreal. Sad mistake by him cost so much. The place of the crash is currently being turned in to a new housing subdivision.
It was this construction that brought the flight details back into the news, as crews starting unearthing all kinds of stuff from the accident.
Swissy From Switzerland, joined Jan 2005, 1734 posts, RR: 5 Reply 4, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 5305 times:
[quote=BOAC707,reply=3]I knew the co-pilot of this flight while growing up in Montreal. Sad mistake by him cost so much. The place of the crash is currently being turned in to a new housing subdivision.
It was this construction that brought the flight details back into the news, as crews starting unearthing all kinds of stuff from the accident.
Yes you are right, I have vistied the site and there is still (was) a lot left and
not just aircraft parts....... Never understood why they did not clean it up better.............
BOAC707 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 278 posts, RR: 2 Reply 5, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5137 times:
The CTSB said that it was cleaned up to the best level technology of the day allowed. no one really seemed concerned about the bone fragments found on site....
I guess if all the relatives had closure so there was no need to go further...
Cedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 7712 posts, RR: 55 Reply 6, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 5113 times:
The CVR of this accident is probably the most horrific I've come across. The shock and remorse in the co-pilot's words is palpable even on the page. Things get worse and worse, first there's the impact with the runway, then it transpires that number 4 is gone. They ask to come back on the same runway (32) but ominously, the controller tells them the runway is closed - it's covered in debris. It's not stated, but the debris belonged to their aircraft. Then it's number 4 and number 3 that have been lost ("The whole thing is jammed"), followed by "[crackling sound] What was that? What happened there, Peter?" Then things completely unravel: "[loud sound of explosion] Pete sorry." And still the CVR keeps recording after that.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
Cedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 7712 posts, RR: 55 Reply 9, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4774 times:
Quoting Dc863 (Reply 8): I'm shocked that developers would build houses over hallowed ground.
Oh for god's sake. You're seriously saying anywhere where a human has died is "hallowed"?! And by "hallowed", you mean, land that is thereafter not allowed to be built on? Can I walk on it? Look at it?
Hallowed my arse. Build on it, go nuts. Why the hell not? Are we doomed to live in a museum of the past because over-coddled twits can't get their head around the fact that death is part of life?
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
Boeingguy1 From Ireland, joined Jan 2006, 415 posts, RR: 1 Reply 10, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 4755 times:
Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 9): Oh for god's sake. You're seriously saying anywhere where a human has died is "hallowed"?! And by "hallowed", you mean, land that is thereafter not allowed to be built on? Can I walk on it? Look at it?
Hallowed my arse. Build on it, go nuts. Why the hell not? Are we doomed to live in a museum of the past because over-coddled twits can't get their head around the fact that death is part of life?
While you could have put it a bit nicer, I agree with you... its Canadian Govt's fault for not sending in some type of clean up operation... why werent the bodies recovered in the first place?
OPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 11, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 4747 times:
There was a book published in the mid-1970s (after the THY DC-10 crash near Paris) called "Destination Disaster" as its main title. In the course of backgrounding the events leading up to the DC-10 accident, they went back into Douglas history and found issues with both the DC-6 and DC-8, the latter of which involved the design of the spoiler handle. IIRC from the book, its design was such that it was very easy to deploy the spoilers when one only meant to arm them (for automatic deployment once the aircraft was on the ground), and the Air Canada flight was not the only accident.
The book is long out-of-print, but I'm sure you could probably find one on eBay.com or bookfinders.com if you were interested..
BA747YYZ From Canada, joined Mar 2006, 377 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 4658 times:
My father was a police officer in Peel at the time, and said that they had lobsters being shipped on the flight, and hot summer, smelt terrible. I think he might find that book interesting, but i also believe it was on the same runway as the Air France crash, which i saw from the 401, bad runway.
PanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 10 Reply 13, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 4653 times:
This is always a great place to start with any questions you have about aircraft incidents and accidents. We all wish it didn't have to exist, but knowledge is power, and learning from past mistakes is, in my humble opinion, the most dignified way to honor those who have given their lives.
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
Tribird1011 From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 183 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 4562 times:
Quoting BA747YYZ (Reply 12): but i also believe it was on the same runway as the Air France crash, which i saw from the 401, bad runway.
No. It had it's hard touchdown (early spoiler deployment) on runway 33 (now 33R), where I believe engine #4 separated from the a/c (the FOD that closed the runway) They were circling for 24L (now 24R) when it exploded.
Air France ran off the new 24L which was built only a few years ago (around 2000 or so)
Swissy From Switzerland, joined Jan 2005, 1734 posts, RR: 5 Reply 15, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4449 times:
Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 9): Hallowed my arse. Build on it, go nuts. Why the hell not? Are we doomed to live in a museum of the past because over-coddled twits can't get their head around the fact that death is part of life?
I guess we can expect some respect here.........
The problem I have is the on going "mess" with finding all these body parts (bones) and yes this is a place were unfortunately over 100 people vanished and it is a big deal for some people.
Connies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 3857 posts, RR: 13 Reply 16, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4401 times:
My dad worked in MX for AC at the time, knew Pete Hamilton pretty well,
so the accident was pretty personal for him.
That said, clean up the place as well as is _practical_ , declare it greenfield,
and redevelop. If you think about it, there are lots and lots of places where
bodies are parked underneath existing real estate. After all, billions of people
have been on this planet for a long, long time.
If you declare every accident site (aircraft, train, ship, car) a reserved 'special' location, pretty soon you're going to run out of turf.
Apologies if that seems cold, but we only have so much usable land. I figure,
actually, by the time I have to go, that either we'll be buried vertically to save space, or the law will say up the chimney. But that's probably another idea for another discussion group.
Cedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 7712 posts, RR: 55 Reply 17, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 4289 times:
Quoting Boeingguy1 (Reply 10): While you could have put it a bit nicer, I agree with you...
True. I'm trying to give up smoking and it's turning me into a complete arsehole.
Quoting Connies4ever (Reply 16): If you think about it, there are lots and lots of places where bodies are parked underneath existing real estate. After all, billions of people have been on this planet for a long, long time.
Grumpy or not, I stand by what I said. I would be horrified if just cos I die in a certain spot, it means that place can never be used again by the living. It's an absurd proposition actually. Like I said. Go nuts, build stuff.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
LongHauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4281 posts, RR: 36 Reply 18, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 4251 times:
Oddly enough, it is not all that uncommon to not completely clean up a crash site. When the cause is immediately apparent, as was the case here, there is no need to recover all the wreckage.
You only need to completely recover the wreckage if the cause is not apparent, and a complete investigation is in order, SR111 and TW800 for example.
It is much like the mid air collision of the TW L1049 and UA DC-7 to the east of the Grand Canyon in 1956. It was very quickly obvious what the cause was, so no need to do total wreckage recovery. There are only certain times of the year that that particular wreckage site is accessible, but having been there, I can tell you .... everything is still pretty well there!!!
Also, with regard to the AC DC-8-63 in 1970, a lot of the wreckage and remains ended up very deep in the soil. A product of both the soft soil (it was farmland) and the airspeed at impact. It seems, that over the years with frost heaving, it has only been in the last decade or so that these things started to appear. I walked through there a few years ago, and found an Air Canada "California Galaxy" First Class candy dish!
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