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Situation So Far With FAA In Venezuela  
User currently offlineBA747 From Venezuela, joined Sep 2005, 107 posts, RR: 1
Posted (8 years 7 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3468 times:

I heard this morning on the news that VH already past the test regarding all the checks that the FAA did on them. Tomorrow is Conviasa´s turn. Let´s keep our fingers cross that everything comes out with flying colors for the Venezuelan airlines and hopefully we will get back to Category 1. I´ll try to keep everyone updated.

Saludos desde CCS

Alex


The World`s Favorite Airline
33 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLamedianaranja From Venezuela, joined Nov 2004, 1246 posts, RR: 20
Reply 1, posted (8 years 7 months 20 hours ago) and read 3430 times:

I personally believe the outcome is already known: the FAA is just doing these inspections as not to loose face and will of course give Venezuela its CAT1 status back, deserved or not.
Commercial interest for the American carriers about to be banned banned is just too big. Political games and nothing else  yuck 



I wish that all skies were orange and blue!!
User currently offlineMiamiair From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (8 years 7 months 16 hours ago) and read 3399 times:

Quoting Lamedianaranja (Reply 1):
Political games and nothing else

It is not political games. I was consulting with Colombian carriers when they were seeking CAT 1. I do not believe that CAT 1 should be issued so easily. Safety is something that should not be compromised, and until it clearly demonstrated, keep things the way they are.


User currently offlineMarcoT From Italy, joined May 2005, 253 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 7 months 16 hours ago) and read 3398 times:

Quoting Miamiair (Reply 2):
It is not political games. I

The problem is that many substains (and I'm inclined to believe) that Venezuela ending in Cat II was first and foremost political, so it is plain old karma at works  Smile



Too short space for my favorite hopelessly long winded one liner
User currently offlineCivilav From Mexico, joined Oct 2004, 391 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (8 years 7 months 14 hours ago) and read 3366 times:

Quoting MarcoT (Reply 3):
Venezuela ending in Cat II was first and foremost political,

Marco, maybe you are a little unfamiliar with the history of civil aviation in Venezuela but, for your information, Venezuela was downgraded to Cat. III (that existed in those days) in November 1995 after the country's civil aviation became a mess. This was exacerbated by a traffic controllers' strike in the first quarter of 95 which led to the sacking of them all and their replacement with unprepared and understaffed Air Force personnel.

The long list of near-misses, lack of supervision, faulty or non-existent airport security, missing data from registers, unrepaired communications equipment, etc., etc. would be too long to highlight here in this forum. Suffice it to say that at least 2 Avensa Boeing 727-200 planes were stranded at Miami airport and unable to depart after being found to have missing seat belts and life jackets, Zuliana de Aviación DC-9s and B-727s were impounded with drug hauls and severe corrosion problems. An FAA inspection in August 1995 determined the country was totally unfit to remain in Cat. 1 and, once the summer season was over, the official announcement came. It was so severe since it called for the immediate banning of any Venezuelan aircraft into US airports. Diplomatic channels were opened, as ever, and the country was modified to Cat. 2 which meant that existing airlines could continue to operate the routes authorised at that time but no new airlines would be allowed and no further routes flown.
When Viasa, Avensa and Servivensa all disappeared, this Cat. 2 in effect has meant that any new Venezuelan operator has been allowed in to the States provided they fly US planes with US cockpit crews.

I hope you understand now that the downgrading was definitely not politically motivated. It should be noted, too, for the sake of accuracy, that Venezuela has been so inefficient and sloppy in dealing with this problem that it has taken the country a whole decade to bring legislation, procedures and train people up to the required minimum standards. It would be no exaggeration to state that it is a disgrace that a country should take that long to do so relatively simple a job if there were the will to fix it.

Greetings from Cancun


User currently offlineLamedianaranja From Venezuela, joined Nov 2004, 1246 posts, RR: 20
Reply 5, posted (8 years 7 months 12 hours ago) and read 3337 times:

Quoting Civilav (Reply 4):
It should be noted, too, for the sake of accuracy, that Venezuela has been so inefficient and sloppy in dealing with this problem that it has taken the country a whole decade to bring legislation, procedures and train people up to the required minimum standards.

What do you think, personally, Civilav? Are they ready for it? And not only the airlines, but the airports?



I wish that all skies were orange and blue!!
User currently offlineCivilav From Mexico, joined Oct 2004, 391 posts, RR: 12
Reply 6, posted (8 years 7 months 10 hours ago) and read 3305 times:

Quoting Lamedianaranja (Reply 5):
Are they ready for it?

Wilma,

In all fairness, yes I think Venezuela deserves to be back on Cat. 1.

There is still a lot to do but remember that this whole issue of FAA categorisation is based on ICAO guidelines and Venezuela now is comfortably above the minimum. I have a feeling civil aviation is "on the mend" in the country after the ghastly years of the 80s and 90s.

Please also bear in mind that, for a very long, long time, Avensa used to be "King". Its having been created with Pan American funds and management criteria in the 40s meant that they had a lot of weight at the then Ministry of Communications (which used to handle civil aviation) simply because it was Pan American and they had a lot of prestige. Caracas Maiquetia airport was built by Pan American and many of its procedures and professional guidelines were adopted and adhered to. In short, in the 1940s, 50s and 60s, Venezuelan Civil aviation worked and was respected because it had a lot of proper training and behind-the-scenes prodding from the FAA indirectly via Pan American. This is the truth even if it hurts patriotic feelings in Venezuela ! No surprise, then, that VIASA became what it did in that era...

When Avensa itself got partly nationalised in 1976 (the Government took a 30% shareholding as Pan Am withdrew fully) along with the remaining 49% of VIASA, then civil aviation in Venezuela steadily became a joke: everything was "pally".... Linea Aeropostal Venezolana was 100% a government body, VIASA was 100% government owned and Avensa was now 30% in the hands of the State. Politicans called the shots and civil aviation began to fall into a state of disrepair in which control, supervision, etc., etc. were all part of the political dealing and wheeling which you see in Congress, for instance. Ghastly things hushed up, pilots' Unions became all-powerful (remember the 1976 pilots' strike over a lunch allowance) and fines or warnings ignored. Complacency set in and there were was now no foreigner snooping, so to speak !!

The first devaluation (that marked the slow but ever-continuing, down glide of the Venezuelan economy as a whole) of February 18th, 1983 set a trend that has been difficult to arrest: in the face of an ever-constant loss of value of the currency, taxes are unable to keep pace with the foreign exchange denominated cost of equipment, technology and training that a properly run civil aviation body requires. The irresponsible award of a 60% wage increase to traffic controllers in September 1993 by the government of the day which passed the buck to the incoming administration, which simply ignored the award and forgot about funding its commitments, led to the strike that put the country on the spotlight. That there were so few fatal air crashes in Venezuela between 1987 and 1999 is a tribute to the dexterity and professionalism of Venezuelan pilots but never to the readiness of the government authorities to provide for safe conditions, state of the art equipment in good working condition, or an honest and dedicated supervisory staff to comply with the safety issues so critical to this activity.

Only now, paradoxically, when the country is awash temporarily with petrodollars, but with a very inept and anarchic government, is civil aviation being taken seriously and properly funded to do a decent job !!

Greetings from Cancún


User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5504 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (8 years 7 months 1 hour ago) and read 3248 times:

I expect face-saving on both sides. Assuming nothing really horrible is found in the compliance area, I can see the FAA giving a "provisional" CAT I, subject to reinspection in 6 months to ensure positive trends continue - or something like that.

I don't agree with previous posters who said that the CCS routes are vitally important to US carriers. MIA-CCS is, or at least used to be, a very high traffic segment; but it still uses only 3 or at the most 4 aircraft out of AMR's fleet of 600-some and even less out of any other US airlines' capacity. These aircraft could be profitably redeployed instantly.



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlineCCSLSP From Venezuela, joined Apr 2006, 51 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3098 times:

hey everyone.....
I wanted to know what was going on with the Venezuelan situation....?
any recent news?



Saludos from Venezuela



Planes are soooo sexy, that I dont want to have sex in a plane, but with a plane...!!!!!
User currently offlineLuisde8cd From Pitcairn Islands, joined Aug 2004, 2574 posts, RR: 31
Reply 9, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3088 times:

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 7):
I don't agree with previous posters who said that the CCS routes are vitally important to US carriers. MIA-CCS is, or at least used to be, a very high traffic segment; but it still uses only 3 or at the most 4 aircraft out of AMR's fleet of 600-some and even less out of any other US airlines' capacity. These aircraft could be profitably redeployed instantly.

Venezuela is AA's most important S. American market and second most important in Latin America after Mexico.

With 5X dailies to MIA from CCS and MAR, 1X daily to DFW, 1x daily to SJU and the 4X weekly to JFK, it's a significant part of their Latam market.

It isn't AA's most important market but you can't also underestimate it.

Quoting CCSLSP (Reply 9):
hey everyone.....
I wanted to know what was going on with the Venezuelan situation....?
any recent news?

No news... the media went silent after the FAA mission left the country. The FAA guys turned in their report about Venezuela and the big-guys calling the shots in Washington are currently deciding what to do with Venezuela's CAT. The new deadline is April 25th, lets wait a couple of weeks to know what's gonna happen.

Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis


User currently offlineCayMan From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 905 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3054 times:

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 10):
Venezuela is AA's most important S. American market and second most important in Latin America after Mexico.

I don't think so. You can't look at just frequency. Much of the Vzla business is very low yield.

I am sure that EZE GRU SCL GIG and perhaps even BOG are far more important routes in terms of yield and other factors.

Also the Veneuzela-US market is fading and will continue to fade. Despite booming oil business the regime in Vzla has scared away huge amounts of business travel to Vzla, as is the case with non business travel. As for Venezuelans travelling to and from the US that market will continue to recede as it becomes more and more difficult for Venezuelans to obtain or even apply for US entry visas. It's already extremely difficult to get one in Vzla and as the 'Cubanization' of Vzla continues it will only get more so, most unfortunately.


User currently offlineTope98 From Venezuela, joined Dec 2005, 83 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3032 times:

Quoting CayMan (Reply 11):
I don't think so. You can't look at just frequency. Much of the Vzla business is very low yield.

AA´s market in Venezuela in not low yield. MIA is just 3 hours away and tickets are sold for no less than 450 uss. SJU is an hour and a half and each ticket is about same price as above, just to give some examples.

And most of the time flights are always full... I dont know whether is or not the most important market right now but certainly it has always been a big one, and they dont want to lose it so easily.


User currently offlineLuisde8cd From Pitcairn Islands, joined Aug 2004, 2574 posts, RR: 31
Reply 12, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3003 times:

Quoting CayMan (Reply 11):
I don't think so. You can't look at just frequency. Much of the Vzla business is very low yield.

I am sure that EZE GRU SCL GIG and perhaps even BOG are far more important routes in terms of yield and other factors.

I'm sorry but that's isn't true. None of markets you mentioned are more important for AA in S. America. The fact that Venezuela's is AA's strongest S. American market is well known by everyone and AA always says it.

Also how can you dare to say that the Venezuelan market is low yield when you have USD 700+ fares in a 1.5 hour flight between CCS and SJU? Or 500+ in a 3hour flight to MIA? I don't even wanna mention the MAR-MIA nonstop and the JFK one.

Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis

Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis


User currently offlineCCSLSP From Venezuela, joined Apr 2006, 51 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 2983 times:

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 12):
I'm sorry but that's isn't true. None of markets you mentioned are more important for AA in S. America. The fact that Venezuela's is AA's strongest S. American market is well known by everyone and AA always says it.

Also how can you dare to say that the Venezuelan market is low yield when you have USD 700+ fares in a 1.5 hour flight between CCS and SJU? Or 500+ in a 3hour flight to MIA? I don't even wanna mention the MAR-MIA nonstop and the JFK one.

Totally agree.....

Hey on a different note what happen to AA's plans to add Valencia to their network I know that San Juan-Porlamar was denied by the Venezuelan government... but I never knew what happen to the Valencia rumours...

And does anyone know why the Fort Lauderdale flight was cancelled???



Planes are soooo sexy, that I dont want to have sex in a plane, but with a plane...!!!!!
User currently offlineLuisde8cd From Pitcairn Islands, joined Aug 2004, 2574 posts, RR: 31
Reply 14, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 2962 times:

Quoting CCSLSP (Reply 13):

Hey on a different note what happen to AA's plans to add Valencia to their network I know that San Juan-Porlamar was denied by the Venezuelan government... but I never knew what happen to the Valencia rumours...

The SJU-PMV denial was a strong signal by the INAC to American carriers telling them to restrain from asking for new routes. This was a signal of what was going to happen in Feb 2006. If the FAA upgrades us to CAT I, I'm sure we'll see both SJU-PMV and VLN-MIA flights by AA.

Quoting CCSLSP (Reply 13):
And does anyone know why the Fort Lauderdale flight was cancelled???

Despite strong loads, yields were too low for the flight to be considered a success. It also stole pax from their MIA flights, so the decision was taken to cancel it. Maybe if we get CAT I and Venezuelan airlines start flooding the S. Florida market, the FLL flight might become a good option for AA. I know people who took that flight because FLL was closer to Weston, thus easier to fly to. Also Inmigration and Customs at FLL was more relaxed that MIA.

Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis


User currently offlineCCSLSP From Venezuela, joined Apr 2006, 51 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 2943 times:

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 14):
I know people who took that flight because FLL was closer to Weston, thus easier to fly to. Also Inmigration and Customs at FLL was more relaxed that MIA.
Yeah mi family........ I never got to see how the loads where but I assume that there were really good to bad it was cancelled... hope to see this whole situation with the FAA resolving very soon... Is anybody else getting worry after this weeks of silence??? I can only imagine the fares on CCS-MIA if this measure takes place... 900$ even 1000$ round trip....



[Edited 2006-04-12 20:13:41]

[Edited 2006-04-12 20:14:37]


Planes are soooo sexy, that I dont want to have sex in a plane, but with a plane...!!!!!
User currently offlineLuisde8cd From Pitcairn Islands, joined Aug 2004, 2574 posts, RR: 31
Reply 16, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2918 times:

Quoting CCSLSP (Reply 15):
Is anybody else getting worry after this weeks of silence??? I can only imagine the fares on CCS-MIA if this measure takes place... 900$ even 1000$ round trip....

To be honest, I ain't worried. I think the tactic used by the INAC is going to work. We'll be CAT I soon... there's too much money involved.

By the way CCSLSP, didn't you get my private message welcoming you to the forums?

Now I'm off to the beach and to do some CCS spotting  Smile

Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis


User currently offlineCayMan From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 905 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2916 times:

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 12):
I'm sorry but that's isn't true. None of markets you mentioned are more important for AA in S. America. The fact that Venezuela's is AA's strongest S. American market is well known by everyone and AA always says it.

I see no basis in fact to support that. EZE and the others appear to be far more important. I think you drastically over-estimate the importance of Vzla as a market for AA or Us customers.


And there is no question Venezuela is a fast fading market. With things going as they are there will be few if any Vzlans who are permitted to or can practically travel to the US.


User currently offlineLuisde8cd From Pitcairn Islands, joined Aug 2004, 2574 posts, RR: 31
Reply 18, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2910 times:

Quoting CayMan (Reply 17):
I see no basis in fact to support that. EZE and the others appear to be far more important.

Please show us with hard numbers and AA financial data that EZE is far more important than Venezuela.

Quoting CayMan (Reply 17):
think you drastically over-estimate the importance of Vzla as a market for AA or Us customers.

I ain't over-estimating the Venezuelan market, it's simply the reality whether you like it or not.

The Venezuelan market is the most important in S. America for AA (American Airlines), I never said US Customers so with all due respect I'd appreciate if you stop putting words in my mouth  Smile.


Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis

[Edited 2006-04-12 21:13:43]

User currently offlineCayMan From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 905 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2903 times:

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 18):
Please show us with hard numbers and AA financial data that EZE is far more important than Venezuela.

This comes up all the time on a.net. Someone makes a bold statement and then when someone else questions that they simply demand "hard numbers" as if to imply that challenge itself proves something. I never purported to have hard numbers I am not an executive with AA and if I were I would not post them here.

By way of observation EZE, for example is a considerably more premium market that CCS is. CCS does not even receive first class service on AA just business and I have flown the EZE flight and it apears to do very well in premium traffic.

I would invite you to produce evidence of when and where AA has said that Vzla is its "strongest S American market." Kindly back that statement up.

I note you have not bothered to respond to my assertion, well supported by fact, that even if Vzla were "the most imprtant S American market for AA" it surely will not be for long. It will become nearly impossible for Vzlans to travel to the US and it is already increasingly difficult or impractical.


User currently offlineRICARIZA From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2393 posts, RR: 26
Reply 20, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2881 times:

Quoting CayMan (Reply 10):
I am sure that EZE GRU SCL GIG and perhaps even BOG are far more important routes in terms of yield and other factors.



Quoting CayMan (Reply 17):
I see no basis in fact to support that. EZE and the others appear to be far more important. I think you drastically over-estimate the importance of Vzla as a market for AA or Us customers

I don't know the numbers, maybe Venezuela is the strongest market, I don't know, but consider that AA flies not only twice daily to BOG, but also daily to MDE and daily to CLO.



I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25785 posts, RR: 50
Reply 21, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2871 times:

While Venezuela might be large market volume wise as evident by the flight frequencies, I would hardly term it as AA's best Latin market.

As such I would believe the deep South America service to places like Brazil and possibly Argentina and Chile would be more profitable and important to AA in the bigger picture of its Latin American network.

Also dont forget Venezuela is basically a stagnant if not declining market particularly business wise due to the current political situation, while other AA Latin America destinations serve markets that are growing steadily.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineTope98 From Venezuela, joined Dec 2005, 83 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2857 times:

I do think that possibly Brazil is a more profitable market, they have multiple flights down there with lots of premiun passengers. Regarding SCL and EZE i dont think are stronger than Venezuela, they have less flights and even they have premiun passengers as well i think numbers are not much better than Venezuela, but i dont have numbers here

However i just wanted to make sure above that Venezuela is not a low-yield market. Also they dont fly to more cities in Venezuela because they didnt get permission from INAC not because they dont want to.

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 21):
Also dont forget Venezuela is basically a stagnant if not declining market particularly business wise due to the current political situation, while other AA Latin America destinations serve markets that are growing steadily.

Sadly is true. But amazingly traffic between this two countries is still very strong. Hope someday good days come back.

Saludos


User currently offlineSOUTHAMERICA From Colombia, joined Dec 2003, 2497 posts, RR: 10
Reply 23, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2825 times:

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 18):
The Venezuelan market is the most important in S. America for AA (American Airlines)

Luis, I also consider this to be a pretty risky statement which you have repeated with vehemence. I respectfully invite you to re-consider, for instance, importance should be understood as what? Net Revenue? Profits? Passengers Moved? Yields? Cargo performance? It sounds as if you were assuming that Venezuela was the South American leader in all these aspects, which I, once again, consider to be off the mark.

Don't get me wrong, I am not denying Venezuela's importance as the market it is, and one would have to be blind to underestimate Caracas relevance as one of AA's most active stations in the continent, if not the most active. But it is always healthy to remind that just below us we have a powerful monster called Brazil, for instance.

Quoting RICARIZA (Reply 20):
I don't know the numbers, maybe Venezuela is the strongest market, I don't know, but consider that AA flies not only twice daily to BOG, but also daily to MDE and daily to CLO.

Simply based on numer of flights, it isn't hard to imagine that Venezuela tops Colombia off in terms of general revenue and passengers moved for AA. It is hard to obtain information about yields though, but it is said that the highest yielding station for AA in Colombia is Cali, though Bogota obviously brings in more overall revenue.



SOUTHAMERICA


User currently offlineCCSLSP From Venezuela, joined Apr 2006, 51 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 2805 times:

Just to be fair i think that in terms of passengers and yields Venezuela and Colombia "Se dan duro" But still I think that Venezuela is stronger for AA than Colombia... Take note that I'm saying AA's network is stronger in Venezuela, because if we count all of the airlines of both country's then Colombia with Avianca alone will definitely kick our butts... Maybe this will change after the Cat 1 for Venezuela and will have a strong Venezuelan flag carrier like Colombia...

A question for Colombians, any news or rumours of new Avianca international routes???

[Edited 2006-04-13 00:30:54]


Planes are soooo sexy, that I dont want to have sex in a plane, but with a plane...!!!!!
25 Avianca : EZE is a very strong AA station. the total revenue for AA in Venezuela should be higher than in Colombia as they are offering more seats to Venezuela
26 SOUTHAMERICA : Just as a disclaimer, my last post was never intended to specifically compare Colombia with Venezuela; but instead, Venezuela's case with the rest of
27 Luisde8cd : A couple of months ago in a thread, we started a discussion about AA in Latin America. A couple of respected a.netters from the US, who always provid
28 SOUTHAMERICA : That's precisely why I wanted to call your attention Luis. There's basically no point in making such a rigid judgement, or even worse, assuming such
29 Post contains images Luisde8cd : Good point SA. The thing is that people started posting that AA's station in Venezuela was "insignificant" out of a 600 plane-fleet. Then another use
30 Avianca : Wow I can imagine the caos in the morning at these counters, It was already a horror in the morning without VH.... But really great that there is now
31 MAH4546 : The importance of Veneuzela to American Airlines' network is not being doubted, but Sao Paulo and Buenos Aires are AA's two most important South Amer
32 Luisde8cd : I stand corrected then. Interesting plans, looks like they'll go directly after VH. Saludos desde Caracas, Luis
33 CCSLSP : Very good news I really hope that everything works out soon... And maybe we'll go back to Venezuela golden era??? When Viasa Avensa and Aeropostal (No
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