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Frank Lorenzo Blacklisted?  
User currently offlinePhuebner From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 244 posts, RR: 5
Posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 8275 times:

I just recently found out that Frank Lorenzo and Carl Icahn were blacklisted from ever operating an airline again. How about that?


Remember this, Your Body is a temple Not a pull toy!
101 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDLKAPA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 8269 times:

Blacklisted from operating, but from what I heard Lorenzo still enjoys rather cushy flight benefits on CO.

User currently offlineJetdeltamsy From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2987 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 8258 times:

I don't know about Icahn, but Lorenzo was deemed by an act of Congress to be incompetent at running an airline.

He is forever banned from the business.

The prick ruined a lot of lives. I can't imagine he'd ever show his face on any Continental flight, free seat or not.



Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
User currently offlineGSPITNL From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 374 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 8258 times:

As far as im concerned that is the best thing for these 2 people. They are sick persons who like to see airlines fumble and fall. SICK!!!

I think CO should kick Lorenzo's A$$ off the flights and make him buy freakin tickets!



Fly Delta - The Only Way To Fly! Silver Medallion Baby :)
User currently offlineThomasphoto60 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3958 posts, RR: 22
Reply 4, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 8219 times:

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 2):
I don't know about Icahn, but Lorenzo was deemed by an act of Congress to be incompetent at running an airline.

I knew that he was banned (I thought it was a banishment by the industry itself), but how much of a menace to a given industry does one have to be to have Congress step in and make it the law of the land?

Indeed there is likely a special place in Hell for Ican, Lorenzo

Simply amazing,

Thomas



"Show me the Braniffs"
User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 5, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 8219 times:

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 2):
The prick ruined a lot of lives. I can't imagine he'd ever show his face on any Continental flight, free seat or not.

I recall that Frank Lorenzo was actually on board CO's inaugural flight EWR-HKG, and in Business Class.

Quoting GSPITNL (Reply 3):
I think CO should kick Lorenzo's A$$ off the flights and make him buy freakin tickets!

Or just have him non-rev in cattle class or in the cargohold.  Wink

I have to agree about Frank Lorenzo. From what I've heard, the guy has done nothing but damage the aviation industry with his involvement at EA and CO most of all. For me, he should just be banned from flying forever.


User currently offlineGSPITNL From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 374 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 8196 times:

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 5):
I have to agree about Frank Lorenzo. From what I've heard, the guy has done nothing but damage the aviation industry with his involvement at EA and CO most of all. For me, he should just be banned from flying forever.

Props to you mate! I agree 100% with that statement! Frank Lorenzo was nothing but a F&$K up from the day he was born! Nothing good came from anything he has done in thie industry! Worse yet, everything he has done, has hurt the industry badly!



Fly Delta - The Only Way To Fly! Silver Medallion Baby :)
User currently offlineType-rated From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 8170 times:

Does anyone know where he resides? I have heard that he lives on a ranch in New Mexico and I have also heard that he is still in Houston.
Personally, I despise what he did with CO & EA, but there ARE people out there who look at him with great respect!
And I found that to be just amazing!


User currently offlineMrMcCoy From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 377 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 8149 times:

He blew it, no doubt about it. Frank is a scourge on the airline industry, but don't think for a second that given the chance that someone else in his position would do the same thing.. this world is chock full of scumbags.


It only takes five years to go from rumor to standard operating procedure.
User currently offlineLetsgetwet From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 609 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 8023 times:

Dispite all the bad feelings toward him, Frank Lorenzo regularly (and often) takes advantage of his non-rev in B/F, benefits with CO. But from what I've been, told refuses meals.

User currently offlineHighguy76 From United States of America, joined Jun 2003, 184 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 7974 times:

I had he (Lorenzo) and his wife on a flight a few weeks ago. They sat in BFirst, and believe it or not ate a full meal.
It took every ounce of restraint I had not to (oopps) spill hot coffee in his lap (which has happened more than once on CO flights.) I remained professional through the flight, and the Lorenzos were cordial.
Highguy76


User currently offlineUAL#1fan From United States of America, joined May 2001, 88 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 7816 times:

At least Continental survived the bankruptcies. It seems to me that he caused more damage at Eastern, basically taking a prosperous carrier from the Frank Borman days and running it into the ground.

He will forever be the archnemesis of any airline union anywhere.



United Air Lines -Mainliners Coast to Coast
User currently offlineApodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4280 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 7804 times:

Doug Steenland is well on his way to joining Lorenzo and Icahn in my opinion.

User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 7770 times:

Quoting Highguy76 (Reply 10):
basically taking a prosperous carrier from the Frank Borman days and running it into the ground.

At the time Frank came to Eastern, it was no where near being a "prosperous" carrier.

Quoting Highguy76 (Reply 10):
It took every ounce of restraint I had not to (oopps) spill hot coffee in his lap (which has happened more than once on CO flights.) I remained professional through the flight, and the Lorenzos were cordial.

I did have the opportunity to "spill" some red wine on him on a LGA-BOS flight!  Smile


User currently offlineJcavinato From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 520 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 7747 times:

Type-Rated, The only people who look at him/them with respect are pure financial types who look at companies as things to manipulate for personal gain. And, the people in them are expendible in order to show short term cost reduction gain to other financial types. There is nothing in these types of people who build, construct, create, or build as value for consumers, citizens, or society as a whole.

Do I sound like I have an opinion on this? It's from decades of observing economies, markets, and businesses.


User currently offlinePhuebner From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 244 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 7633 times:

Quoting Apodino (Reply 12):
Doug Steenland is well on his way to joining Lorenzo and Icahn in my opinion

Okay, educate me, who is Doug Steenland?



Remember this, Your Body is a temple Not a pull toy!
User currently offlineBoeingguy1 From Ireland, joined Jan 2006, 415 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 7620 times:

Quoting Phuebner (Reply 15):
Okay, educate me, who is Doug Steenland?

CEO of NWA.



Gatwick South! Id rather crash in Brighton!
User currently offlineAirScoot From United States of America, joined May 2005, 688 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 7620 times:

Quoting Letsgetwet (Reply 9):
But from what I've been, told refuses meals

Do you blame him? I wouldn't either if I were one of the most hated men in aviation history.

Quoting Phuebner (Reply 15):
Okay, educate me, who is Doug Steenland?

CEO Northwest Airlines.


User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 7620 times:

Quoting Phuebner (Reply 15):
Quoting Apodino (Reply 12):
Doug Steenland is well on his way to joining Lorenzo and Icahn in my opinion

Okay, educate me, who is Doug Steenland?

http://www.nwa.com/corpinfo/peopl/senior/senior.shtml#steenland


User currently offlineMalaysia From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 3354 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 7580 times:

I have a feeling that a new Frank Lorenzo will show up and create an Airline Purge. But this time it will be beneficial and a birth of a new Airline Industry era.


There Are Those Who Believe That There May Yet Be Other Airlines Who Even Now Fight To Survive Beyond The Heavens
User currently offlineJcavinato From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 520 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 7555 times:

I'm not sure a new Lorenzo will show up. What Icaan and Lorenzo did was to go after carriers that had profit margins from the actual flights, but the losses were from the overheads of the businesses and cumbersome processes. They slashed and burned with a barbarian approach that included making everyone in the organiztion feeling like they were absolutely worthless. That was their major sin, IMO.

But, they were after an inherent cash flow that was usually always positive with the carriers. It is more difficult to make that happen in the U.S. airline industry today when the pricing and top line revenue is internet transparent, prices are fluxed continuously, and there isn't a tolerant business traveler who is willing to pay Y class fares in the chance of getting an upgrade. What I notice is the lack of very senior management travelers in first class anymore. They are on private jets, NetJets, and travel in ways that we don't see in the regular terminals anymore.


User currently offlineMrMcCoy From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 377 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 7512 times:

Quoting Malaysia (Reply 19):
I have a feeling that a new Frank Lorenzo will show up and create an Airline Purge. But this time it will be beneficial and a birth of a new Airline Industry era.

Right along with the moon turning blue, flying swine, and the nether-regions of the earth freezing over.  Smile



It only takes five years to go from rumor to standard operating procedure.
User currently offlineLatinAviation From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1276 posts, RR: 15
Reply 22, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 7460 times:

He now runs a Houston-based private equity firm called Savoy Capital.

User currently offlinePhuebner From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 244 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 7374 times:

I do understand that he has attempted to get back into the industry a few times and was turned down.


Remember this, Your Body is a temple Not a pull toy!
User currently offlinePope From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 7361 times:

can anyone point me to the act of Congress that blacklisted Lorenzo?

25 Pgv : You ever wanna see ALPA and IAM come out of the weeds like a pack of killer bees...just let Lorenzo even think about starting an airline. They will s
26 Phuebner : You're right about that, I understand what you're saying fully.
27 Post contains links Dtwclipper : September 8, 1993, an administrative law judge recommended that DOT deny the application of Friendship Airlines, later renamed ATX, founded by former
28 B757capt : Please add Robert Brooks. Current owner of PAce/Hooters AIr to this list.
29 ATCRick : No better words have ever been spoken, sir.
30 Phuebner : I am curious, why do you say this?
31 Post contains images UAL#1fan : I am amazed he can still fly Continental. After what he did to them in the '80s, if I were a veteran CO employee from that period I'd do my best to re
32 Post contains images PanAm747 : In the United States, we have had our share of very wealthy men - Andrew Carnegie, the Rockefellers, J.P. Getty - who for the most part, put some of t
33 Post contains images Piercey : I wonder why....... You can add Leo Mullin to that list as well. How bad can you F*** up one airline? If he is allowed by some stupid reason, tell hi
34 767-332ER : Sir, I couldn't have said it better myself. I just pray that Delta has the same outcome that Continental has had after surviving Ch.11. Regards
35 N1120A : They can't. He can sue them for it.
36 B757capt : Casue he is a great example of how you take a great airline and run it into the ground.
37 Boeingguy1 : True, but... at the ticket desk: "Lets see... Non-Rev for Mr. Lorenzo... Ah, yes. Here is your reservation! Seat 23B, youre sitting next to an immens
38 AirCop : Is there room for Stephen Wolf on that list also?
39 Piercey : I don't know.... he wasn't that bad at UA and has reedemed himself outside of Aviation (allthough he did screw up US)
40 Dtwclipper : Question: Continental was on the verge of bankruptcy prior to the take over by Texas International, in fact, TI was the surviving airline, they chose
41 Hiflyer : Frankie's training and education was to break unions...his antics with CO forced a rewrite of both bankruptcy and labor laws...but he got away with it
42 Post contains images Piercey : don't even mention that b******, he cost me my college and flight school money........ Godspeed TWA. At the same time, though, as crazy as it sounds,
43 Dtwclipper : Another educated response from a 13 year old
44 Post contains images Clipper707 : Let's not forget ED Acker, The SOB That killed the greatest airline to ever fly! ( PAN AMERICAN WORLD AIRWAYS ) Clipper707
45 Dtwclipper : I remember being in HQ during the stike with people outside yelling "jump Acker, Jump"!
46 KAUSpilot : If Lorenzo did such a great job at Continental, why did they need to declare bankruptcy again in the early 90's? Lorenzo crushed employee morale and
47 Post contains images Piercey : I'M 15 and a freshman in HS. I appologize, dear adult, if I said something offensive. He saved CO by doing what he did best - F****** up an airline.
48 TVNWZ : Actually, yes. Saviors are often crucified. The job is messy and a lot of people get hurt. Somehow our memories are often only of what we would like
49 TWAMD-80 : I couldn't agree more; out of the two, Icahn was definitely the bigger dirtbag. Given the alternatives, I think AA's takeover of TWA was the best opt
50 Post contains images Rdwelch : You my dear friend, are the ultimate professional. Freedom of expression at it's best. Gus
51 AirCop : Right; try telling that to the employees and shareholders of Flying Tigers, Republic, United and US Airways. Paint the planes in new colors, blame th
52 MD11Engineer : In 19th and early 20th century Germany we had the Krupps and Thyssens (of steel fame), Borsig (engineering) and Siemens (electrics) as well as the AE
53 MajorNelson : For sure! I'm surprised it took as long for this airline-breaker to be mentioned. He left a trail of destroyed airlines behind him (in order that the
54 WDBRR : I never knew that CO flew between LGA-BOS unless this was the Eastern Air Shuttle in the late 80's....
55 Antoniemey : After two bankruptcies CO was still heading down, and fast. That's not a set up for success for anyone but someone who REALLY likes a challenge. Inse
56 ATCRick : I knew his name would come up eventually. What about Hap Perritti? The man made all companies go to outsourcing 401k plans. He ruined lives at Presid
57 Dtwclipper : Think New York Air!
58 AirScoot : I realize that there will always be an apologist in the room regardless of subject.. but I have to draw the line at any sort of respect for either Lor
59 ATCRick : Bingo, I will not step foot in Icahns Casinos in Vegas because this man owns them. He ruined too many lives to deserve a dime of my money. And Frank
60 JayDavis : I know all you union loving people are going to hate me for this, but I agree 110% with what Lorenzo did at busting up Eastern. For a janitor, who was
61 N328KF : Steenland merely broke a union. In this case, a great many (if not a majority) thought that this particular union was exhibiting a great deal of intr
62 Airzim : Spot On. The man was an a #1 a**hole to work for, no doubt, but CO would not be around today without him.
63 AirScoot : I think if you take a closer look at exactly what Lorenzo did, it wasn't just union busting. If it were just that I doubt the laws would have been spe
64 Slider : I've seen a captain suddenly get "sick" on a flight he had Lorenzo come onboard on, and I've seen flight crews be amazingly cordial to him. It's a bi
65 Letsgetwet : It all runs in cycles. Right now unionism is still on the decline. There will come a point when the working man will be so raped and demoralized when
66 Post contains images IslandHopperCO : All the hatred toward Lorenzo comes from the coddled union workers who "lost" unrealistic and unsustainable pay, job security, and benefits. He came a
67 ATCRick : He owns the Stratosphere and both Arizona Charlies properties. And may he rot in hell.
68 TVNWZ : I don't think any of those properties existed when Ichan owned TWA and effected Karibu. Karibu was just another way for Ichan to squeeze more money f
69 JayDavis : I disagree about unions coming back again. I think there have been WAY TOO MANY bad circumstances with unions ruining great companies. Face it, the Un
70 Swissy : [quote=IslandHopperCO,reply=66]All I know is that without Lorenzo, my favorite airline wouldn't exist today. Dare I say he's my hero? I do not take yo
71 Piercey : My very bad, I completely spaced out on Flying Tigers and Republic. *feels like idiot*
72 CXA330300 : Besides him being a complete @$$H0L3, didn't Frank Lorenzo also get arrested for DWI sometime in the 90s?
73 Bobnwa : The employees of Republic all got taken aboard by Northwest and the Republic stockholders made out very well in the stock sale to Northwest. The Repu
74 747400F : well that in it self makes him respectable in my eyes. hmmm I seem to remember a certain bomb going off over Scotland having quite a lot to do with i
75 Post contains images Dtwclipper : Just to get some of you guys really upset, here is a shot of Frank and me from last nights 25 Year New York Air reunion....i will put on my flame suit
76 KAUSpilot : I knew we'd have our share of Lorenzo apologists on this board. The man is "unfit to run an airline" for a good reason. He simply treats his employees
77 TVNWZ : Not apologizing for anyone. And I could personally care less about Lorenzo. But, without his actions, both good and bad, there would be no CO today.
78 Malaysia : Ed Acker just went down as a member of the board of another airline this year (Flyi)
79 WesternA318 : Not to mention NWA '05? Mechanics? Also, at the Univ. of Utah, and UCLA, there is a group of about 50-55 (at Univ. of Utah, that I know of) law stude
80 MD11Engineer : What the F#ck do law students know about engineering? They should go back to their books and keep to their own trade. Jan
81 WesternA318 : That's what I thought when I first heard about it. LOL, that is their trade, being in Labor/Corporate Law. I do wish them the best though.
82 PGV : Nothing...it's just that their profession breeds a system where they are always needed. Sue someone...it becomes law, then 500 other people need lawy
83 N766UA : What the hell is he doing? Looks like a crazy man!
84 Goingboeing : Lorenzo has been out of the industry for how many decades now? Eastern wasn't prosperous at all under Borman...their precarious financial situation w
85 UAL777 : Lorenzo was not incompetant at all....quite the opposite actually, he was smart. However he is a corporate raider. His biggest partner was/is in fede
86 Slider : Thanks for the info...I'll scratch the Stratosphere off my list. And yes, may he rot in hell.
87 Goingboeing : I dunno...at least he made no bones about not caring for the employees. Seems to me, the bankrupt airlines are giving back to their managment things
88 AirframeAS : I'm prepared to be flamed for asking this but I don't give a hoot anyhow...... Can we add AS CEO Bill Ayer to the list? I think he is a prick with his
89 DeltaL1011man : Malaysia "I have a feeling that a new Frank Lorenzo will show up and create an Airline Purge. But this time it will be beneficial and a birth of a new
90 N1120A : I am betting his contract has him fly positive space Ask a UA flight attendant how "good" he was at UA Not only did CO have to reorganize a second ti
91 ATCRick : I'm missing your point. Ir doesn't matter whether or not they existed then. All I am saying is that I wont go in them because Icahn owns them. Now I
92 USPIT10L : I wondered what happened to Phil Bakes! He got a lifetime ban from airlines too. Not surprised he ended up in jail for his workings with junk bonds.
93 Slider : To be fair, Allen's Leadership 7.5 was ahead of its time and was necessary. Just horribly executed. Destroyed a lot of the old DL culture. But cuttin
94 WesternA318 : LOL, I'd rather spend a night under an I-15 overpass in LAS than stay at his places. After youre done dancing, may I piss on his grave and paint his
95 Slider : There will be plenty of celebrations to go around, I'm sure.
96 WesternA318 : You know it. A few pilot friends of mine at TWA have comitted suicide when AA completed their deal.
97 Pgv : I am definitely interested in hearing you expand on the terms "most unionized" and "most profitable" and how you see them connected in regards to an
98 Goingboeing : Two words...Southwest Airlines.
99 Pgv : Yeah, I figured that was going to be the example thrown out there. This is kinda like comparing Jimmy Hoffa to a basket weaving union. As a long-time
100 Goingboeing : I'm not apologizing for the guy...but how is he any different from the CEO's of at least 4 other airlines who are in or have been in bankruptcy court
101 AirframeAS : I thought those NW mechanics fired themselves when they walked off the job last year....Are the replacements represented by AMFA while on probation??
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