FlyBoeing From United States of America, joined May 2000, 866 posts, RR: 2 Posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3754 times:
Just read about the helicopter ferry to JFK being restarted - pretty neat, IMO but $115 is a little spendy. OTOH the alternative is two hours on the annoying Van Wyck. Yech.
I think he masses deserve a better way of getting to JFK. How come nobody seems to have tried a high-speed ferry? Looking at the satellite maps on Google Earth it seems that a hydrofoil would have a lot of advantages - no traffic, and since it lifts itself out of the water it probably wouldn't have too much effect on the wildlife refuge. If the chopper gets you there in 15 minutes, I bet the ferry could do it in 30 minutes for a lot less.
Micstatic From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 762 posts, RR: 1 Reply 2, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3722 times:
Quoting FlyBoeing (Thread starter): OTOH the alternative is two hours on the annoying Van Wyck. Yech.
Dartland From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 637 posts, RR: 2 Reply 3, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3683 times:
AirTrain is decent, but takes an hour from midtown by the time you take the Sybway or LIRR out to Jamaica. Still, it's a reliable hour, as compared to going by car which is more expensive and could take well more than an hour with traffic.
Ferries are risky for a few reasons:
1) The distance is pretty far since you have to go around Brooklyn (especially from midtown, downtown is obviously better).
2) There actually is a fair amount of traffic in those waters. Obviously not like the Belt Pkwy, but you still couldn't go THAT fast.
3) Bad weather can easily hamper service if high winds
4) The waters in Jamaica bay are likely not navigable
5) Even if you did get into Jamaica bay, where are you going to dock? They'd have to build a facility and a way to transfer pax across the runways.
Not impossible, but the investment required and the risks involved would rule out pursuing it as an option, especially now that the AirTrain is running providing a "reasonable" mass transit alternative.
Bobster2 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 4, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3481 times:
Instead of google maps, try a google search. NYC is working on the possibility of high speed ferries to the airports. Some have been tried and failed. There are problems listed in this article:
LTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 12365 posts, RR: 12 Reply 5, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3469 times:
A number of years ago, as helicopers became pricy and riskier, there were attempts to connect Manhattan with LGA, but it didn't last long.
Okelleynyc From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 219 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3447 times:
Quoting Zvezda (Reply 6): $115 is only twice the cost of a taxi.
Not if you're going to Manhattan from the airport. Isn't it $35 plus tolls and tip? Granted your trip out there might be more.....
Just give me my Vario, my Ozone Mojo and a gorgeous day of soaring.
JFKLGANYC From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2706 posts, RR: 5 Reply 8, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3403 times:
Actually, the Port Authority announced new service from the World Trade Center site to both LGA and JFK with new high speed ferry service like 2 years ago.
LGA was supposed to start last summer. JFK was supposed to start a few months later. LGA was supposed to get a new ferry terminal behind the Marine Air Terminal.
But in Port Authority fashion, nothing gets done. And when it does get done it's a day late and a dollar short.
-Infrared Decicing facility at JFK ...just completed: one year late and after the winter season
-AirTrain JFK . . . 30 years late:
Originally proposed as a one seat ride to LGA and Manhattan with a terminal at the old Alexander's Dept Store Building on 57 street. Doesn't provide a one seat ride anywhere.
-JFK 2000 . . . a massive new central terminal at JFK linking to airsides with trains (like MCO): Never Built.
Baggage Tunnel for terminal was built . . . dubbed tunnel to nowhere.
-Central Terminal Building at LGA . . . Remodeled over a DECADE! 1992-2000. Proposed Concourses never built. Pending yet another study.
-New hotel within Central Terminal Area at JFK: Proposed with JFK 2000. Never Built.
-New Control Tower at LGA: Proposed since mid 90s. Federal funding secured. Federal funding withheld when Mayor Guiliani almost tossed Port Authority as manager of airports pre 9/11. Status: Old tower with no view of apporoach end of runway is still in use.
-Freedom Tower and Office Buildings at the World Trade Center:
Site plan approved for two years. Tower plan approved for 1 year. Port Authority still is discussions with lease holder Larry Silverstein on who builds what and when. Trade Center still a hole in the ground.
-Gothels Bridge replacement: first proposed in the 90s. Yet another environmental study underway a decade later.
Truth is, the Port Authority is one of the worst-run government agencies in the world. Their airports are a mess, their bridges are outdated/overcrowded and in a constant state of disrepair, their train system has never turned a profit, and the Crown Jewel of their Empire, the WTC, is still a hole four years after 9/11.
Rudy Guiliani wanted to kick them out as managers of JFK and LGA in the lat 90s citing breach of contract due to the constant state of disrepair that the airports were/are in.
He even went to contract with BAA to operate both airports. But after 9/11 and the heavy PA losses at the WTC coupled with the heavy losses of the NYPD and FDNY, a spirit of togetherness ensued and a new contract with the Port Authority for the airports was signed.
Truth is, feelings of partiotism and togetherness after 9/11 aside, the PA should have been thrown out. They are the epitome of a bloated, inept, government agency.
N1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 25869 posts, RR: 79 Reply 9, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3403 times:
Quoting FlyBoeing (Thread starter):
Just read about the helicopter ferry to JFK being restarted - pretty neat, IMO but $115 is a little spendy. OTOH the alternative is two hours on the annoying Van Wyck. Yech.
You left out trains, which will eventually go direct from JFK to NYP
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
D950 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 493 posts, RR: 2 Reply 10, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3385 times:
"You left out trains, which will eventually go direct from JFK to NYP"
You can post the same quote in 2014 when the ground is finally broken for the link to JFK
Resting on your laurels is a synonym for flirting with disaster
CRGsFuture From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 536 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3366 times:
A high speed ferry to JFK from WTC, UNHQ, or any other side on the west side makes no sense. JFK is well served by the Air Train and Subway systems, plus NY Bus and the LIRR.
A AirTrain to NYP make no sense as the system will completely rule out why they went to Jamaica in the first place, as it was built for a medium for Long Islanders and people from the city. The A train serves Brooklyn and Queens very well, and the Bronx is again served by Subway.
Now a ferry from Staten Island would make sense but the problem is that I read somewhere a good percentage of them go to EWR instead. A ferry to LGA would make more sense but I don't think that will happen.
Flying you to your destination; your girlfriend to her dreams.
D950 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 493 posts, RR: 2 Reply 12, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3351 times:
What would make sense is to extend the Airtrain from Jamaica to LGA, for connections, (UA still shuttles people between LGA and JFK) and long term parking, as LGA has very limited parking for the long term, and charges a HUGE premium over JFK.
Resting on your laurels is a synonym for flirting with disaster
Willyj From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 467 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3351 times:
Quoting FlyBoeing (Thread starter): Just read about the helicopter ferry to JFK being restarted - pretty neat, IMO but $115 is a little spendy. OTOH the alternative is two hours on the annoying Van Wyck. Yech.
The normal time from manhattan to JFK by car is about 45 minutes. 2 hours would be a worst case scenario.
Quoting Okelleynyc (Reply 7): Not if you're going to Manhattan from the airport. Isn't it $35 plus tolls and tip? Granted your trip out there might be more.....
the fare has been raised to $45, and tolls are about $5. Tip should be at least $5, which totals to $55 - about half of $115. however, 3 or 4 people can fit in a taxi, and that gets you anywhere in manhattan. the helicopter is $115 per person, and you land all the way downtown, so you'll have a $20 cab ride to midtown or the upper east side.
TK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4114 posts, RR: 13 Reply 14, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3318 times:
Quoting Willyj (Reply 13): the helicopter is $115 per person
Not for too long, they said they are going to raise to $159. Still very reasonable if you are flying with AA.
JFKLGANYC From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2706 posts, RR: 5 Reply 15, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 3169 times:
I think the chopper service is a good idea.
But I lived in NY my whole life and have spend countless time on the Van Wyck Expwy going between Whitestone and Howard Beach, Queens.
So let's gets some travel times straight:
LGA-JFK 15 minutes
In worst case traffic scenario 30 minutes. Never, ever anything more than that short of a major roadway closure.
Manhattan-JFK 30 minutes
In worst case scenario 45-60 minutes.
I don't know how it has become commonplace to say it take 2 hrs to get from Manhattan to JFK. Unless ur cabbie drops dead en route and hits a light pole closing down two lanes of the road . . . THERE IS NO WAY IN HELL IT TAKES 2 HRS TO GET FROM MANHATTAN TO JFK..
Tornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 16, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 3153 times:
I've asked this numerous times about the chopper and never got a response...
If JFK is in IMC, and in the requisite ground stop for flow control caused by the reduced approach capacity in IMC:
1) Can the helicopter still fly? I realize choppers fly IMC often, but what will the mins be for it to land at JFK since it's not actually taking an "approach" to JFK, but landing near a terminal/AA gates.
2) Will the helicopter be subject to the JFK Flow Control, therefore being delayed for an hour or two?
JFKLGANYC From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2706 posts, RR: 5 Reply 18, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 2996 times:
"I wish I could see a map of this tunnel...Is it used for anything at all now?"
No. It's used for nothing.
"1) Can the helicopter still fly? I realize choppers fly IMC often, but what will the mins be for it to land at JFK since it's not actually taking an "approach" to JFK, but landing near a terminal/AA gates.
2) Will the helicopter be subject to the JFK Flow Control, therefore being delayed for an hour or two?"
Well to answer #2 first, JFK rarely has a ground delay program in effect. The weather has to be very, very wicked for it to happen. Totally different scenario than EWR and LGA, which routinely have 2hr delays.
As for ques#1, I asked the NY Chopper Capt who was flying a few days ago.
He seemed to think they would always go VFR and just stay lower. When I asked what would happen in low IFR, he wasn't too sure. It was only their first day of ops.
RayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 7713 posts, RR: 5 Reply 19, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 2967 times:
In my opinion, a high-speed catamaran ferry service from Manhattan to LGA makes FAR more sense than ferry service from Manhattan to JFK. The reason is simple: it's far easier to build a ferry terminal at LGA. Also, with AirTrain now in service, JFK is accessible from downtown Manhattan by either the NYC subway system or the Long Island Railroad.
Dallas74 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 95 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 2913 times:
Quoting JFKLGANYC (Reply 15): I don't know how it has become commonplace to say it take 2 hrs to get from Manhattan to JFK. Unless ur cabbie drops dead en route and hits a light pole closing down two lanes of the road . . . THERE IS NO WAY IN HELL IT TAKES 2 HRS TO GET FROM MANHATTAN TO JFK..
Don't let my Username fool you - I grew up in Flushing and now live on Long Island and I can tell you how these 2 hour trips make the rounds. It is because of Livery Drivers playing games and the Port Authority not stopping them. Let me offer a real life example. Last year I had business associates coming into NYC for the first time. I told them about the Airtrain, but they decided to cab it. Instead of taking a Yellow Cab they hired one of those "friendly guys" who offer their services around baggage claim. Although I warned them not to do this they did it any way.
This guy then proceeds to take them via the Belt Parkway to NY at 4PM. He takes them all the way around to the Williamsburg Bridge and then drives them up to the NY Hilton for the bargain price of $175. Total trip time 2 hours 15 minutes.
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