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Dog Dies On AA Transcon Flight; Lawsuit.  
User currently offlineFXramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7247 posts, RR: 85
Posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 10469 times:
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Pretty sad...cute dog.  

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,189643,00.html



RIP Willie.  tombstone 

[Edited 2006-03-30 19:57:27]

44 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMrMcCoy From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 377 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 10450 times:

I'm sure there's much more to this story than what's been published by Turner's media machine. Wonder if the pet-sicle switch was activated in the cockpit..  duck 


It only takes five years to go from rumor to standard operating procedure.
User currently offlineAbirdA From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 290 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 10450 times:

That story doesn't even make much sense. The dog didn't come when called? I'm having trouble understanding why the airline should have been intervening with medical care at that point. It makes it sound as if the owner came into contact with the dog after the flight. Why not just take it to a vet yourself? I wouldn't wait on the airline to call someone, especially if i was arriving in my home town, which is unclear from the article. No doubt the owner is pained by this incident, but the word frivalous comes to mind.

User currently offlineFlyboy_se From Sweden, joined Feb 2000, 812 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 10407 times:

at least they didnt do the same misstake as KLM groundcrew in AMS a while ago.
A swedish lady was travelling to Nice with her dog. Sadly the dog died while she was on vacations in Nice.So she transported the dead dog home to ARN.
When she was connecting at AMS the ground crew thought the dog died in flight.Thinking it was airlines fault they went to the petstore nearby and got a lookalike dog and replaced teh dead one with it.When the lady arrived at ARN and recieved her cage with the now alive dog, she almost had a heartattack.
It was a huge problem.The lady decided to keep the dog and got some pretty nice benefits from KLM. amazing.

back to the story. poore dog. i am sure there is more to the story then the news says.



I prefer to be crazy and happy rather than normal and bitter
User currently offlineFXramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7247 posts, RR: 85
Reply 4, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 10407 times:
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Quoting Flyboy_se (Reply 3):
i am sure there is more to the story then the news says.

 checkmark 

sorry about the news link.  ashamed 


User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13073 posts, RR: 12
Reply 5, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 10280 times:

This occured Aug. 2, 2005 on a JFK-SFO flight, so heatstroke could have caused this dog's death. The main arguement by the owner is that AA apparently didn't call a vet promptly or even at all after it arrived in SFO. The owner didn't even get told the dog had died until hours (5?) after he arrived at SFO. It is possible that the dog was dead already upon arrival, but still AA should have had a vet come in or take the dog to one nearby to verify it, or to try to save the dog if it wasn't dead yet. I would suggest that there is a case to persue here, that in the discovery process perhaps what happened where and how can be determined.

User currently offlineGQfluffy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 10208 times:

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 5):
This occured Aug. 2, 2005 on a JFK-SFO flight, so heatstroke could have caused this dog's death.

There are limits to flying with animals, at least with my airline. If it's 32 degrees F (or colder) at the originating airport, any stops along the way, or at the destination, that pooch...(or kitty) don't fly. At the other end of the spectrum, I believe (I kinda forgot) it's around 90 degrees F.


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26426 posts, RR: 76
Reply 7, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 10208 times:

Quoting MrMcCoy (Reply 1):
I'm sure there's much more to this story than what's been published by Turner's media machine.

Um, this wasn't from a Time Warner media outlet. This was from Murdoch's media machine.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineBAxMAN From St. Helena, joined May 2004, 671 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 9911 times:

Firstly, I would like to pay my respects to poor little Willie. May he RIP in Doggie Heaven.

Anyhows, it seems like possibly all parties are slightly culpable in some way. I know that BA refuse to carry all breeds of 'snub-nosed dogs' because of the risk of respiratory problems. As a bulldog, Willie would have fallen into this category.
http://www.britishairways.com/travel/pet/public/en_gb#7

I'm no veterinarian, but to me it seems like AA are taking undue risk in transporting animals that have an increased chance of being adversely affected by air travel, and Willie's owner should also accept some responsibity himself in letting his at risk breed of dog travel. If the owner did not realise the potential risks for Bulldogs, it his responsibility to have researched this beforehand.



I need to get laid
User currently offlineMrMcCoy From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 377 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 9909 times:

Pardon for stepping off-topic for a moment, but you do all recall that Airline episode when the fellow showed up with a cat IN his bag? What's worse is that he'd told the ticket counter staff that he'd flown all around the country with a cat in his cargo bag and nobody ever knew about it. Poor pussy!


It only takes five years to go from rumor to standard operating procedure.
User currently offlineTinkerBelle From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 9854 times:

Quoting Flyboy_se (Reply 3):
A swedish lady was travelling to Nice with her dog. Sadly the dog died while she was on vacations in Nice.So she transported the dead dog home to ARN.
When she was connecting at AMS the ground crew thought the dog died in flight.Thinking it was airlines fault they went to the petstore nearby and got a lookalike dog and replaced teh dead one with it.When the lady arrived at ARN and recieved her cage with the now alive dog, she almost had a heartattack.

 rotfl   rotfl   rotfl   rotfl   rotfl   rotfl 

Oooh boy, Haven't laughed that hard in a while.


User currently offlineGolftango From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 314 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 9757 times:

Poor Willie, RIP buddy. As a former English Bulldog owner (and just like the brindle guy above), these dogs require more attention than normal canines because EBs can overheat quite quickly. Although AA may be partially responsible, I personally would never put my expensive English Bulldog in the belly of a/c.

[Edited 2006-03-31 02:53:32]

User currently offlineKLMyank From Netherlands, joined May 2004, 172 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 9747 times:

Shame you can't buy a dog in a petshop in the NL, but nice story...

User currently offlineFreakyDeaky From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 132 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 9713 times:

I always wonder why pet owners think it's a good idea to ship animals as cargo.

They're better off putting them in the pet container and setting them out on the side of the highway in middle of summer. At least out there, someone would rescue the poor thing quickly and give it a new home with hopefully more intelligent owners.

 thumbsup 



"Finish each day and be done with it. You have done what you could."
User currently offlinePhuebner From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 244 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 9696 times:

I would never fly one of my pets in cargo on an airplane. When I read the story it made me very sad. I am a Dog and Cat lover and I hate it when I read things like this. If I am able to bring my pet inside the airplane in a suitable case than I would do that, if not then bowser won't come with me.


Remember this, Your Body is a temple Not a pull toy!
User currently offlineFlyboy_se From Sweden, joined Feb 2000, 812 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 9662 times:

Quoting KLMyank (Reply 12):

well the store where you get your dogs...lol

still have hard time believing this story myself, but since i heard it from the guy at KLMs airport office maybe its true.



I prefer to be crazy and happy rather than normal and bitter
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 16, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 9645 times:

Quoting FreakyDeaky (Reply 13):
I always wonder why pet owners think it's a good idea to ship animals as cargo.

I had brought my 4 ft. iguana on ORD-SFO last year  biggrin .......there were no problems...AA does a good job transporting pets..

my iguana had full checkups and everything else before she flew....and I made sure that it was all within AA's animal guidelines....



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineAJMIA From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 733 posts, RR: 15
Reply 17, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 9566 times:

Quoting Flyboy_se (Reply 3):
at least they didnt do the same misstake as KLM groundcrew in AMS a while ago.
A swedish lady was travelling to Nice with her dog. Sadly the dog died while she was on vacations in Nice.So she transported the dead dog home to ARN.
When she was connecting at AMS the ground crew thought the dog died in flight.Thinking it was airlines fault they went to the petstore nearby and got a lookalike dog and replaced teh dead one with it.When the lady arrived at ARN and recieved her cage with the now alive dog, she almost had a heartattack.
It was a huge problem.The lady decided to keep the dog and got some pretty nice benefits from KLM. amazing.

It is an urban legend.....
See Snopes.com for another version

http://www.snopes.com/horrors/gruesome/deadair.asp

AJMIA



Lady it's a jet... not a kite.
User currently offlineABpositive From Australia, joined Nov 2005, 226 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 9540 times:

My friend's dog (rottweiler) died on a trip from MEL to LHR. The cause of death was DVT. I didn't realise till then that dogs can suffer from it too.

User currently offlineCorey07850 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2527 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 9406 times:

Quoting BAxMAN (Reply 8):

Anyhows, it seems like possibly all parties are slightly culpable in some way. I know that BA refuse to carry all breeds of 'snub-nosed dogs' because of the risk of respiratory problems. As a bulldog, Willie would have fallen into this category.
http://www.britishairways.com/travel/pet/public/en_gb#7

That was my first thought... I ship my dog using CO and everytime I make a reservation for him they distinctly ask for the breed to make sure they aren't in the "snub nose" category... It's on their website as well, but I'm not sure if they refuse to ship them or just provide an explicit warning.


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21507 posts, RR: 60
Reply 20, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 9372 times:

I read a different story and it makes it pretty clear that AA was negligent.

The dog did not die "on AA Transcon Flight". The dog became ILL on, before or after the flight. When they brought the dog to the owner, it was ill, but it was not dead. They owner begged for AA to call a vet, and they claimed they did, but one never arrived. This was an emergency, and the airport should have a vet on call 24/7. After the vet never arrived, AA took the dog to a secure area without letting the owner come, and 5 hours later, told the owner the dog had died. Emergency vets did arrive in that amount of time, but the exact time is not clear. But those vets could not help the dog at that point and told the owner that they likely could have saved the dog had they been brought in sooner.

That's how the story I read went. Very different than some of the snap judgments some people made here. But it is also still unclear if that account is accurate.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineBAW716 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2028 posts, RR: 27
Reply 21, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 9244 times:

Very sad news for the dog....my condolences to the owner.

Unfortunately, the lawsuit is also dead on arrival. Unless the owner can prove malicious intent on the part of the airline (very hard to do), the contract of carriage of animals falls under cargo and is therefore not subject to the same conditions as a passenger ticket.

baw716



David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
User currently offlineKITH From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 378 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 9078 times:

How badly do people need their dogs to travel with them? I travel a lot and our 4 year old Golden stays at a local kennel where the kennel owner loves him more then we think we do! (Just kidding, but we sometimes worry if we'll get our Golden back). -Matt in KITH

User currently offlineTbear815 From United States of America, joined Jun 2003, 704 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 8765 times:

IF I were to travel with a pet (I don't have one now), that pet (DOG!) would be in a First Class seat next to me. Otherwise, the pet would be left at home in scrupulously safe and loving care. If that were not possible, I would get myself a terrific DVD about the places I'd like to visit. The welfare of any pet I would have takes priority over most anything. If something happened to "my best friend" while traveling, I couldn't live with myself. And no, I'm not over-exagerating.

User currently offlineDarrenthe747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 8748 times:

Quote:
Quoting KITH Reply 22
How badly do people need their dogs to travel with them? I travel a lot and our 4 year old Golden stays at a local kennel where the kennel owner loves him more then we think we do! (Just kidding, but we sometimes worry if we'll get our Golden back). -Matt in KITH

Maybe he was moving...

Quote:
Quoting Jacobin777 Reply 16
I had brought my 4 ft. iguana on ORD-SFO last year .......there were no problems...AA does a good job transporting pets..

my iguana had full checkups and everything else before she flew....and I made sure that it was all within AA's animal guidelines....

Their policies may be "safe," or as safe as they can possibly be...
I used to work ramp crew and worked plenty of commercial flight movements. We had very strict policies regarding movement of animals, but even still I always hated doing this part of the job. We would take them out of the cargo bays even if the plane was down for like 2 hours for a fuel stop (obviously so they wouldn't cook alive or freeze to death). But these animals would be literally shaking in the backs of their cages sometimes even in a mess of their own feces, urine and vomit. And we were all extremely careful all the time of course. Flightlines are extremely loud, with APU's running and other heavies taxiing around the ramp. No matter how well you treat them, it's a horribly traumatic experience for your pet, period. I would never put my cats through it.


25 PanHAM : Itb was probably the same store that was shown on Monthy Python whereb the guy bought the Parrot. ...well, it just moved....no, it didn't..... Anyway
26 Post contains images Bohlman : We call the cargo outflow valve the puppy snuffer here at Purdue . Heartless I know, and this is still a very sad story, as I know I would be absolut
27 Post contains images Jacobin777 : interesting....thanks for the info.. oddly enough, we would never put our cat through it either, as we feel it would be too traumatic for her, but my
28 DL787932ER : It's certainly sad for one's dog to die, whether or not it was AA's fault. But what is the matter with people who have to take their pets with them wh
29 Ibhayi : My gf's father was cargo master at JNB for LH, in the 70's. They often flew the combi to JNB, and moved a lot of live cargo, and a lot which never mad
30 CVGpilot : - Agree, either way this does not happen often and it would only make AA look even better to express sympathy and some "at-least" minor compensation.
31 Jumpseat70 : This may be why Delta has a pet embargo in place, for pugs. They have problems breathing in hot weather. I don't think we in MCI have a VET on hand. W
32 LTBEWR : Airlines transport million dollar race horses and zoo animals safely with little difficulty every day, but that is under very controlled conditions. T
33 Noelg : The pets travel in the cargo hold whether they are carried on as baggage, sent as airfreight or sent by a pet travel company. Some airlines let you c
34 Post contains images KaiGywer : " target=_blank>http://www.snopes.com/horrors/grueso...r.asp Or just wait a few more replies, till somebody doesn't read the thread
35 AJMIA : Traveling in cargo is a rough experience for pets no matter what the airlines try to do to minimize it. At AA we have very strict temperature restrict
36 Lincoln : That gentleman realy didn't seem to get it, did he? The agents were trying to be patient with him and explain in small words "Cat in soft bag = Squis
37 Post contains images B777A340Fan : Oh my God! This story is too funny, yet sad at the same time. That could've happened when the dog was being transported from the hangar to the plane.
38 TheSorcerer : I wonder if the dog was sedated. Dominic
39 Post contains links Boeing747_600 : I think demonstrably well-behaved dogs should be allowed in the pax cabin on a window seat if the owner pays full fare or maybe even a slight premium.
40 Post contains images B777A340Fan : Heck, create an entire new airline...I'll be the first one to sign up!
41 Jacobin777 : one of the more sensible comments on A.net!
42 Noelg : I would gladly pay for another seat if our dog was allowed to travel with us. I would feel a lot safer and it would guarantee me flying with them. It
43 Post contains links and images Boeing747_600 : Ask, and you shall receive!
44 AR385 : I don't know about the zoo animals, but million dollar horses go on special freight charters with their vet, their handler, their rider and sometimes
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