Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Should Delta Buy The 717? Yes....or No?  
User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8507 posts, RR: 12
Posted (14 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2933 times:

I think that the 717 would be perfect for Delta. All the short haul routes out of Atlanta would be well served with it. Hopefully, they'd replace the MD-88s to HSV with 717s, rather than with the world's worst short haul aircraft, the 737-800. The MD-88's glass cockpit makes retraining current MD-88 pilots easier and less costly. Powerful but fuel efficient engines, simple systems, a new wing, and a comfortable interior loved by passengers would make it a winner. I say have Delta order and option 100 like TWA.

N863DA, or another one of you than can use Photoshop, would you mind creating pictures of a 717 in Delta's old widget colors and the newest colors also? Thanks very much.

24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineN863DA From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 48 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (14 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2781 times:

I will sure give it a try right now. I will post if I get one done!

But for what it's worth, the 717 would only have limited use with Delta - but maybe they could replace the 737-200s???

And I know I would sure rather have Delta flying into my home airport again (Panama City, FL) with the 717, like they did with the DC-9, rather than having to rely on the world's most on-time airline, Atlantic Southeast.

FLY DELTA JETS and sail UNITED STATES LINES



N 8 6 3 D A


User currently offlineILUV767 From United States of America, joined May 2000, 3141 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (14 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2760 times:

The 737-300/500/600 would serve that market just as well, and the 737 offers much more range, than the 717, so you are not as limited to the routes that you can fly.

User currently offlineKALB From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 573 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (14 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2748 times:

I don't think you will see Delta with the 717. Comair, ASA and SkyWest all use the CRJ which is in the role the 717 would be in.

User currently offlineTWA717_200 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (14 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2739 times:

I think everyone should have at least ONE 717...

But, that's just me.


User currently offlinePeter From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 570 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (14 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2733 times:

I think that Delta would buy the 737-600 instead of the 717. the 737-600 would be more like Delta's 737-800s. I would rather see Delta get the 717, though.

User currently offlineBlink182 From Azerbaijan, joined Oct 1999, 5482 posts, RR: 15
Reply 6, posted (14 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2709 times:

don't look for delta or AA to buy the 717,if one of them were,i would say delta since AA has the fokker-100 that basically is the 717 but for delta,the 717 would be a good replacement for the aging 737-200's
blink182



Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8507 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (14 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2712 times:

There are a couple of compelling reasons for the 717.
1. The 737-600 isn't as much of a moneymaker!
On the HSV-ATL route that's about 30 min. in the air by MD-88, the 717 would be more efficient.
2. The CRJ seats 50. The 717 seats 106. Do the math!
The 717 would likely gross more profit on a route than 2 CRJs would. It's got a first class, and is a real Delta jet, not a commuter.

Thanks N863DA!


User currently offlineCba From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 4531 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (14 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2711 times:

I don't see much of a future for the 717. I love the 717, and I would love to see more airlines operate it, it's a great replacement for the DC-9. Here's the problem: The 717-200 holds 106 passengers. The 737-500 and -600 both hold 110 passengers. About the same capacity. But those 2 737's have a lot more range than the 717, so operating the 737-600 or -500 makes more sense. I would love to see more 717's though.

User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8507 posts, RR: 12
Reply 9, posted (14 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2705 times:

Do you people not understand that the 717 costs less per hour to operate than the 737?! I don't mean to be offensive, but the extra range of the 737 isn't all that much of an issue. The 737-800 can fly nearly 3,000 nm, so it really is a good replacement (size-wise, at least), for the 727 (as well as supplementing the 757 on shorter, less densely traveled routes than the 757).

Heck, I'm rooting for American to buy 717s to replace their Fokker 100s. Not that I honestly think that's going to happen anytime soon.


User currently offlineTWAneedsHELP From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (14 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2677 times:

Yeah I agree I don't see any 717s in DL paint. It's not a good replacement for the Express 732s because of the range issue. 717s couldn't make FLL-BDL, or FLL-BOS, or some of the midwest routes from MCO. I think those hardworking 732s are going to be around for awhile. I'm still curious about the outcome of the Air Alliance crash investigation in western India.

User currently offlineStarship From South Africa, joined Nov 1999, 1098 posts, RR: 14
Reply 11, posted (14 years 1 month 1 week 6 days ago) and read 2659 times:

Should Delta buy the 717 ? Yesssssssssss !!!!


Photo: Boeing



Behind every "no" is a "yes"
User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8902 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (14 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2644 times:

Delta is going to buy the 737-600, but only for the express routes. The 717s for Delta would be good though to maybe put a larger plane on ASA routes.

Jeff


User currently offlineTEDSKI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (14 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2624 times:

This aircraft would be perfect to replace the 737-200s used by Delta Express.

User currently offlineDexter From Austria, joined Jul 2000, 261 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (14 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2618 times:

I would rather expect the Delta Connection carriers to buy more of the larger CRJs (CRJ900) than Delta itself to order the 717s. Those CRJs have a similar seating capacity to the 717 (90 pax vs 100). Furthermore, the DL Connection airlines (Comair, ASA) have already got experience with Bombardier aircraft. The DL Express 737-200 will probably be replaced with -600s.

User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8507 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (14 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 2579 times:

The CRJ900 hasn't even been launched yet. Has it? The 717 is a substantially bigger aircraft. Not only does it hold 106 compared to 90, but it also has a first class, while the CRJ900 doesn't.

Now listen closely:
Delta has been operating DC-9s and their derivatives since April 20, 1967! They have operated every major model except the 717.

When Delta started flying DC-9s, Comair didn't even exist! I'm ROTFLAMO when you say that, "the DL Connection airliners (Comair, ASA) have already got experience with Bombardier aircraft."


User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 8018 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (14 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2565 times:

I think Delta may buy the 717-200 for this reason: they already have a substantial MD80/MD90 fleet and converting these pilots to fly the 717-200 will be relatively easy to do. Especially when experience has shown the 717-200 to be a better performer than the original manufacturer specs.

User currently offlineN-156F From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (14 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2560 times:

If Boeing were to make a 717-200ER which held the same 106 pax, but could make FLL-BOS runs (I believe the longest DL Express route), DL might have an interest in them. However, seeing as how they already operate large numbers of 737s and are considering a large order for -800s, I feel that we would more than likely see the 736 in DL Express colors, and on some regular DL routes.
The 717 is a long-shot for DL's future needs, and while I give a DL order for them a chance in the 0.01 to 0.1% range, it can't be ruled out entirely.


User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8507 posts, RR: 12
Reply 18, posted (14 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2557 times:

FLL-BOS is just over 1000 nm. Easily within the 717's range of 1375 nm, and even more so within the HGW's 1875 nm. Not a problem at all.

User currently offlineDexter From Austria, joined Jul 2000, 261 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (14 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2538 times:

I know that the CRJ900 hasn't been launched yet, but it will be.
I also agree with you that it has a smaller seat capacity than the 717. Onthe other hand: "The CRJ900 will have the lowest operating costs in its class" (Bombardier), which is a strong argument in favor of CRJ900.

Now you listen closely:
The 717 doesn't have cockpit commoniality with ANY other aircraft type, including DC9, while CRJ900's cockpit will probably be very similar to CRJ700's (and other CRJs too) which has already been ordered by DL Connection carriers. The 717 has no sisters at the moment in fact. The 717-100 and 717-300 are both paper planes right now, and God only knows if they're ever going to fly.

So you shouldn't be ROTFLAMO when I say that, "the DL Connection airliners (Comair, ASA) have already got experience with Bombardier aircraft", bacause it's slightly more important than the fact that DL operates old DC9s.

I like the 717 a lot, but I just don't think DL will order it.


User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6608 posts, RR: 24
Reply 20, posted (14 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2514 times:

The 717 is not a good replacement for the MD88 or 737-800 on routes like ATL-HSV. The 717 only seats 110 while the MD88 seats 142 and the 737-800 seats 154. So if they replaced those planes with the 717 people in HSV would see a pretty dramatic drop in capacity.

I do think that the 717 could work on some Delta routes however. For example, ATL-VPS (Ft. Walton Bch) and ATL-GPT (Gulfport-Biloxi). Currently, those routes are served by about 7 ASA flights a day on either ATR's or RJ's. You could upgrade those cities to 717's which would also make DL more competitive with Airtran, who also serves those cities. Unfortunately, DL management is unlikely to do this because the 717 would be a mainline jet and they would have to pay mainline wages. ASA pilots are a lot cheaper.

DL Express will probably end up with 737-600/700.


User currently offlineWjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5163 posts, RR: 22
Reply 21, posted (14 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 2486 times:

According to Boeing, both versions of the 717 can reach any city in Florida from Boston; indeed, the longer-range version can reach as far as Dallas from Boston (an endurance of over 4 hours). So...according to one poster's theory, DLX should want them.

--Bill


User currently offlineAdria From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (14 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2465 times:

I think that the best aircraft for Delta would be an Airbus A318. It's range is better and the comfort in the Airbuses is only the best( wider seats and bigger cabin makes a more comfortable felling). But it would be a big surprise if Delta would buy Airbuses. They are heading only for Boeing.

User currently offlineN-156F From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (14 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2441 times:

Adria- I talked with a Delta flight engineer in MSP who worked the B727s. He said that DL was trying to retire its older planes while shifting to an all-Boeing fleet. Thus, the L-1011s are first to go, replaced by B777s and B764s.
We were at a general consensus when the issue shifted to Airbus- the A310s of the early '90s were probably the only Airbus jets that DL will ever operate. The A318 is actually fairly heavy for a short-haul jet, and its wing was designed originally for medium-haul A320 work. A future Airbus purchase can't be ruled out entirely, however with DL's already strong commitment to B767-400, B777-200ER, and B737-800, plus the lack of a need for an A3XX in DL's fleet, Airbus would have to make the mother of all offers to get a DL order for anything.


User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8507 posts, RR: 12
Reply 24, posted (14 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2441 times:

Not many airlines have ordered it with the full EFIS suite, but the MD-90 and 717 could be ordered with the same cockpits. Delta chose the MD-88 style system for it's MD-90s, though. I'm not certain, but I believe only Saudi Arabia ordered it. Still, retraining times for pilots are lowest with the MD-88/MD-90, a little higher with the other MD-80s and DC-9. and highest for pilots without any DC-9 type rating. I'm talking about days worth of time.

While Delta would have to pay it's pilots more to fly the 717 than Comair would (of course, the 717 is a bigger airplane anyway), it's revenue potential is higher. Passengers expect to pay less when flying on a commuter airline like Comair than on a major airline like Delta.

The 717 is very efficient, has great performance, is highly popular with passengers, has windows you can actually see out of, has lower maintenance costs, and has both limited cockpit and parts commonality with Delta's 150 (or so) strong MD-88/MD-90 fleet.


Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
BA & The A380: Yes Or No? posted Thu Jul 13 2006 12:33:50 by Scotron11
USAirways-A332's Yes Or No? That Is The Question. posted Fri Nov 3 2006 19:09:54 by Jlbmedia
767-400 For American? Yes Or No posted Mon Apr 18 2005 07:17:58 by Capt.Fantastic
753 In/out Of DCA: Yes Or No? posted Tue Dec 7 2004 07:37:52 by September11
SAS Eurobonus FFP ... YES Or NO? posted Wed Jul 14 2004 06:00:57 by Airbear
Glasgow Prestwick Is A Glasgow Airport Yes Or No? posted Thu May 6 2004 23:39:50 by Bmi330
Air Marshals. Yes Or No? posted Fri Feb 6 2004 00:30:47 by ScottishLaddie
Air Canada 340-500 PTV= Yes Or NO posted Mon Jan 26 2004 01:30:24 by Mckennasmall
100-Seat Aircraft Market, A Yes Or A No? posted Thu Oct 9 2003 16:55:09 by GoAibusGo
US Airline Re-Regulation: Yes Or No? posted Fri Jan 31 2003 19:06:37 by Cerulean