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FRA-LAX, Always Full On LH?  
User currently offlineCityAirline From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 700 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5092 times:

Hey!
Is FRA-LAX always full in all classes on LH? It seems really hard to get seats in Y for the coming days. I think I read that it was one of LH's busiest route, so I just wanted this confirmed.

But why don't they expand with more flights?
Is LH out of available planes? Is LAX slot-restricted?
And they will use the A380 on the route once its delivered, right?

Thanks, bye  Smile


I don't fly to live, I live to fly...
34 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 1, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5058 times:

LH does do well with its LAX-FRA route - and they have the route all to themselves as there is no other airline offering nonstop service (PA/DL tried years ago when there was a hub in FRA - it did not work out very well and service was dropped). The flight does operate with good loads on a year round basis.

The coming days (weeks) are quite busy.....the Easter/Passover/Spring Holiday period increases demand dramatically with lots of lesiure pax travelling (family visits, trips home, vacations, etc) - that could be why the LH flight is so heavily booked for the coming period.

Will LH operate the A380 on the LAX-FRA route.....a definite maybe!


User currently offlineFRA-Runway From Germany, joined Jul 1999, 80 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5054 times:

Not correct, AI is also offering nonstop service FRA-LAX

Regards.


User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 3, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5043 times:

Quoting FRA-Runway" class=quote target=_blank>FRA-Runway (Reply 2):
Not correct, AI is also offering nonstop service FRA-LAX

Regards.

Woops!! Forgot about that.

Also, at one time, NZ flew LAX-FRA two times per week.


User currently offlinePlanespotting From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3527 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5033 times:

Quoting CityAirline (Thread starter):
But why don't they expand with more flights?

ha! add more flights when you already have a near monopoly and all of your flights are pretty much filled to capacity as it is? That's crazy.

An extra 350 seats on this route per day could easily increase supply to the point where it is greater than demand, and then they would have to drop the price and even start to lose money on the route.

As it is right now, they can charge a high premium for this flight based on a supply which probably does not quite meet demand...that is the perfect situation for an airline to be in for a route like this.

Look at what happens when an airport is served by two airlines, and one of those airlines ends service. Say, each airline had 4 flights/day to a different hub (8 flights/day total). Airline X drops out, leaving the airport with only 4 flights/day from Airline Y. Most likely, Airline Y's aircraft were not going out completely full to begin with, and now they know that there will be an excess of passengers who used to use Airline X but now have to use Airline Y, as they are the only option. So Airline Y increases their fares 10-20%, and their aircraft are now going out full or nearly full, as they are the only option now (ignoring other market factors like a closer airport and driving). They have just increased their yields drastically, without doing anything at all to increase their costs.

The business of airlines is a tricky one, and not all times outwardly logical, but hey, that's life in the big city.

[Edited 2006-04-01 21:36:51]


Do you like movies about gladiators?
User currently offlineAaway From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1523 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5007 times:

In short...yes! I attended an LAX airline meeting in February where a LH management rep indicated that LFs were approaching - well, lets say a very, very high double digit percentile on this route.


With a choice between changing one's mind & proving there's no need to do so, most everyone gets busy on the proof.
User currently offlineBoeingFever777 From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 409 posts, RR: 53
Reply 6, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4957 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 1):
and they have the route all to themselves as there is no other airline offering nonstop service

I thinkt AI #137 flys DEL-FRA-LAX (1) daily.

Quoting Planespotting (Reply 4):
add more flights when you already have a near monopoly and all of your flights are pretty much filled to capacity as it is? That's crazy.

I thought they only fly (1) daily from FRA and (1) daily from MUC? You make it sound as if they fly 2-3x daily.



Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25392 posts, RR: 49
Reply 7, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4922 times:

LH has done well in the LAX-FRA market going back to the 80s when it, and BA were the only consistent European daily operators.

I have not seen the 2005 reports, however in 2004 LAX-FRA operated at a 87.8% LF with summer peaks in the mid 90s, and the slowest month at an impressive 83%.

Besides the route basically channeling traffic between two STAR hubs, LH has done very well selling itself amongst many ethnic communities in Southern California with its many beyond connection opportunities.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinePlanespotting From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3527 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4890 times:

Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 6):

I thought they only fly (1) daily from FRA and (1) daily from MUC? You make it sound as if they fly 2-3x daily.

I was speaking in generalities. I was using a general circumstance that might happen to any airline to reason why LH shouldn't expand their flights. But, I also thought both of their daily flights went to FRA (i didn't realize they had a daily MUC flight in there), so that is another reason why that may sound like that.



Do you like movies about gladiators?
User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25392 posts, RR: 49
Reply 9, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4872 times:

Lufthansa is operating 3 daily flights to LAX again this summer. 2 FRA(B744s) and 1 MUC(A343).


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21532 posts, RR: 59
Reply 10, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4869 times:

LH will likely send the A380 to LAX once LAX is ready for it. You will likely see QF, VS, LH, AF, KE and SQ A380s at LAX by 2010.


Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineKaitak744 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 2377 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4718 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 10):
LH will likely send the A380 to LAX once LAX is ready for it. You will likely see QF, VS, LH, AF, KE and SQ A380s at LAX by 2010.

LAX will be ready late this year. The construction of one gate is already underway at TBIT. Another one will commence soon on the north side of TBIT, and one for T2.

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 9):
Lufthansa is operating 3 daily flights to LAX again this summer. 2 FRA(B744s) and 1 MUC(A343).

So just to get it clear, LH has 1 744 from FRA and 1 A343 from MUC in the winter, and 2 744s from FRA and 1 A343 from MUC in the summer? Any chance of the MUC flight switching to A346?

Also, what are their frequencies to SFO?


User currently offlineLegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2077 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4705 times:

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 11):
Also, what are their frequencies to SFO?

LH serves SFO year round with a daily 744 Franfurt service. Munich is served year rouns 4 times per week during the winter months with a 343 and daily during the summer with a 346.

UA also serves the SFO-FRA with a daily 744.



John@SFO
User currently offlineBoeingFever777 From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 409 posts, RR: 53
Reply 13, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4577 times:

Quoting Planespotting (Reply 8):
(i didn't realize they had a daily MUC flight in there)

Yeah they have 1 daily from each city. Flights are as follows:

FRA-LAX LH #456 @12:35PST on 744
MUC-LAX LH #452 @14:20PST on 343



Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
User currently offlineAirCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4451 times:

It just amazes me that no US based airline offers non-stop service to Europe (except for London) from LAX.

User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7063 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4451 times:

Quoting AirCop (Reply 14):
It just amazes me that no US based airline offers non-stop service to Europe (except for London) from LAX.

I guess that has to do with the lack of longhaul equipment, the backbone for America�s longhaul airlines is the 767 and for some the A330 both does not have the range to fly that route nonstop.
Airlines that fly 747s and 772s mostley use them on their pacific routes.
Maybe once the 787 enters service with American carriers we will see point to point directions to more European cities, maybe LAX-BBI etc.....



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineQantas744ER From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1286 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4451 times:

Hey, well i have been on the flight about 8 times from FRA to LAX and the other way around and it always is packed full in C and F. Many times we were overbooked flying in C and there was no space in F so we had to go to SFO.
and yes LH makes a lot of money on this flight.

Cheers Leo



Happiness is V1 in Lagos
User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4434 times:

Quote:
It just amazes me that no US based airline offers non-stop service to Europe (except for London) from LAX.

KLM flies non-stop LAX-AMS.
AF flies non-stop LAX-CDG.
EI flies non-stop LAX-DUB.
SV flies non-stop LAX-SVO.

Whom did I miss?



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineIndio66 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 475 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4373 times:

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 17):
Whom did I miss?

Swiss, Alitalia, Virgin . . . .


User currently offlineBrink777 From Bulgaria, joined Mar 2004, 130 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4359 times:

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 17):
KLM flies non-stop LAX-AMS.
AF flies non-stop LAX-CDG.
EI flies non-stop LAX-DUB.
SV flies non-stop LAX-SVO.

Whom did I miss?

those are not us airlines


User currently offlinePlanespotting From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3527 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4284 times:

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 17):
SV flies non-stop LAX-SVO.

I think you mean SU (aeroflot).



Do you like movies about gladiators?
User currently offlineJoeCattoli From Italy, joined Aug 2005, 569 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4237 times:

Quoting Indio66 (Reply 18):
Alitalia

No

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 17):
SV flies non-stop LAX-SVO

Saudi Arabian LAX-moscow? and if you meant Aeroflot they don't have equipment to make it nonstop...

Ciao  wave 
Joe


User currently offlineUAL777UK From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4189 times:

Quoting Legacyins (Reply 12):
UA also serves the SFO-FRA with a daily 744.

I wonder why, UA doesn't fly LAX-FRA as well then if its going so well for LH. Is it just a case of being short of aircraft?


User currently offlineWrighbrothers From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 1875 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4054 times:

Quoting JoeCattoli (Reply 21):
if you meant Aeroflot they don't have equipment to make it nonstop...

Their 767's can just make it, I do think it's non-stop, could be wrong.

Well, it's not just LH, but BA too are doing wellout of California.
3X daily (non-stop) LHR-LAX during the summer
2X daily (non-stop) LHR-LAX during the Winter
and
2X daily (non-stop) LHR-SFO year round,
I believe SFO is a high premium load destination, while LAX is more economy and leisure.

Wrighbrothers



Always stand up for what is right, even if it means standing alone..
User currently offlineQantas744ER From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1286 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3992 times:

Quoting Wrighbrothers (Reply 23):
I believe SFO is a high premium load destination, while LAX is more economy and leisure.

Correct! BA only uses 744`s with a High C configuration to SFO so 70 seats in C. But for their LAX flights they only send the 38 seats in C config, but F configurations remain the same.

Cheers Leo



Happiness is V1 in Lagos
25 Mutu : Perhaps there is some gentlemans agreement between these *A partners or perhaps for UA to do so would focus peoples minds on the virtual monopoly bet
26 Laxintl : Its not for not trying. Used to be TWA offered service to Paris and Pan Am to Frankfurt. Since then Delta for a while did run Frankfurt while both Am
27 UA777222 : I would say that both UA and LH's flights out of SFO both do well equally across all classes. I have flown 900 and 901 (UA's SFO-FRA-SFO) many times a
28 Ikramerica : True. AA used to have an LAX-CDG flight, but couldn't keep it profitable. There were ads in media and billboards around LAX talking about it. Maybe 9
29 Kaitak744 : Also, did SAS fly to LAX from Stockholm I think? When and why did they stop? And wasn't Alitalia in talks about coming back to LAX in 2006 with a 777?
30 Post contains images PanAm747 : WHOOOOPS!! Sorry about that - but one has to admit, SVO and SV is a logical mistake - especially before the coffee has kicked into high gear.
31 Post contains images AussieItaliano : Yes, AZ used to fly LAX-MXP as well as SFO-MXP, but both routes were dropped after the 2001 terrorist attacks. They have announced that LAX is on the
32 Ikramerica : and neither of them are us based carriers either, which was the question...
33 Flymunich : Next winter (06/07) Lufthansa operate daily MUC-SFO with A346 and 5 weekly MUC-LAX with A343.
34 ZK-NBT : I believe it was LH that weren't happy with NZ on the LAX-FRA run because NZ were taking away LH's PAX. Both are in Star and NZ codeshare LAX-FRA and
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