Xen From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 24 posts, RR: 0 Posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2866 times:
BA's weekly 777 must be one of the only flights, other than TAP's, into Luanda, Angola - it arrives at 0420 and leaves the same day at 2350 and does not (as far as I know) fly on anywhere - this seems a huge amount of time for it to be idle - or is the 19.5 hour stop long enough for the same crew to fly return ?
ZSOFN From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 1413 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2845 times:
Unfortunately this is a common problem for operators like BA and others who fly relatively few (or in this case only 1) frequencies overnight to African destinations.
BA, VS, AF and many others keep their aircraft on the ground at JNB all day, and SA often have up to 3 heavies sitting around at LHR.
Some do however make onward trips, for instance LH and KL at various points used to make a daytime round trip to CPT and BA in pre-Comair days used to fly one of their 744s down to DUR!
Unfortunately this type of operation does require the airline to factor in such inefficiency of fleet utilisation so the route really needs to be profitable enough to justify the "opportunity cost" of not operating other revenue services.
Flying Belgian From Belgium, joined Jun 2001, 2397 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2820 times:
BA, AF and SN would really like to fly more than once a week to LAD I think !! LAD is AF's only african route flown by its flagship, the 777-300ER.
It's quite a high yield route (oil is not far away !!), but I know the Angola Govt does everything it can to block them from flying more than once a week. I fear it will even become worse now that TAAG will have new routes with their 777s.
AF and BA make a long day-stop, the crews take their minimum rest. SN flies on to Kinshasa where the crew lays-over.
Billy From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2000, 895 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2650 times:
The BA flight remains on the ground for the duration of the crew rest period. BA deems it too risky to have its crew stay for the several days between flights, so would rather spin the same crew round and work the same plane home. This is quite different to the South African situation, where the market prefers overnight flights. BA undertakes deep cleaning of its aircraft whilst on the ground in JNB.
Quite a high yield?? - its probably the highest yielding flight BA operates - or certainly not far off. Its the same for AF as well. The restricted access and a very high proportion of business traffic makes it Very lucrative.
I worked in South Africa last year and was talking to the different airlines there about future market prospects. all of them said that if the market was opened up to additional flights they'd start up (or add) Angola flights tomorrow as it was so lucrative.
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
Xen From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 24 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2365 times:
Presumably on the oil routes it's a combination of high paying passengers travelling on business and freight for the oil companies that makes it profitable - the back of the plane can be relatively empty ?
Airbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8573 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2278 times:
Quoting Xen (Reply 8): Presumably on the oil routes it's a combination of high paying passengers travelling on business and freight for the oil companies that makes it profitable - the back of the plane can be relatively empty ?
For TAP at least, the back of the plane is packed full. That's what makes this route so profitable. Everyone on the plane is playing very high fares. I suspect the situation is the same with BA and aF.
BA747YYZ From Canada, joined Mar 2006, 377 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 2088 times:
Did BA not used to have a 4 day layover in Harare, Zimbabwe when they used a 744? My uncle who did business down their said that the crew stayed at the same hotel as him, and was an in demand route for the crew, due to this.
Cyba From Cape Verde, joined Nov 2005, 209 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 1927 times:
Quoting BA747YYZ (Reply 10): Did BA not used to have a 4 day layover in Harare, Zimbabwe when they used a 744? My uncle who did business down their said that the crew stayed at the same hotel as him, and was an in demand route for the crew, due to this.
I think they still do. In HRE as well as LUN and possibly other destinations. You'd think they woudl reposition the crew but it looks like the the hassle and possibly additional cost of doing this is not worth it.
CV990 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1837 times:
Hey british friends, don't be concerned about BA flights to LAD/Angola. This african country is growing more than 10% every year....two years ago inflaction was 300%, last year was a mere 10%.....BA is very wise and they are in the right market at the right time. According to economic experts Angola will soon pass Nigeria has the major oil producer and Angola IS THE COUNTRY to invest right now! I wouldn't be surprised to see BA increasing their flights in an near future! TAP wants to have a daily flight right away!!!