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A350 Cabin Mock May Tip The Orders To Airbus  
User currently offlineAirA380 From Bangladesh, joined Mar 2006, 179 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 28154 times:

Wow..The cabine interior Mock up certainly looks good, it will launch this week....Maybe a concern for 787...What's your thought...check out the pics on the link below!!!

http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...+cabin+interiors+mock-up+this.html

[Edited 2006-04-03 20:16:02]


I'm flying without wings!!!!!!!!
215 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineUAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 28122 times:

We've seen this before I believe in another thread. I doubt it will sway any orders. Most likely the cabin will not look like that and it will be up to the airlines on the seating arrangements, seats, IFE, etc. Looks very plasticy to me. The 787 interior is just as innovative.

UAL


User currently offlinePlaneHunter From Germany, joined Mar 2006, 6714 posts, RR: 78
Reply 2, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 28122 times:

The cabin looks nice, but there's no feature which Boeing couldn't adapt to the B787.


PH



Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6755 posts, RR: 17
Reply 3, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 28077 times:

I like the projection system..

What the hell is that circular thing for. I would say, look for those seats to change.. I bet into something more traditional. I don't understand the part about business/economy class.. are they saying you can put 3 rolling bags per person in business and 2 rolling bags per person in economy? If that's the case.. well aiight then. If not, then I'm confused..

well, at least here in the States, the standard luggage is the rolling bags.



Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineRemcor From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 358 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 28077 times:

Looks like a bunch of dentist chairs. And they have that 60's high school gym locker color scheme.

Will they be continuously playing Pink Floyd during the cieling light show? Toke up, it's time for the light show!

Maybe just on KLM.

[Edited 2006-04-03 20:33:43]

User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21474 posts, RR: 60
Reply 5, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 28039 times:

Interiors are not exclusive to aircraft. They don't sway customers, as the customers can adapt the same concept to their other models.

9 abreast would sway customers. Seeing that picture with light blue 8 abreast seats, I don't get how that is supposed to be the "tipping point" of any decision...



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineDesertJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7760 posts, RR: 16
Reply 6, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 28039 times:

Honestly this isn't all that much different from what Boeing did 18 months back with the initial Dreamliner cabin concepts. A lot of cool, somewhat pie in the sky, concepts.

Beyond more fixed things like side panels and overhead bins, it will be ultimately up to the individual carriers whether or not items like the "mood lighting" or fancy seats make it in.


Though those Y-class seats are pretty interesting, but I doubt we'd see anything like that in service.



Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
User currently offlineAirA380 From Bangladesh, joined Mar 2006, 179 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 28039 times:

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 2):
The cabin looks nice, but there's no feature which Boeing couldn't adapt to the B787.

Broadly speaking the same could said for airbus where airbus can adopt High % of composite materials as Boeing. Boeing 50% & airbus 39% of total weight
It is not a question can or would...but will they do it.



I'm flying without wings!!!!!!!!
User currently offlineAirA380 From Bangladesh, joined Mar 2006, 179 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 27998 times:

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 3):
I like the projection system..

its Awsome....Good lighting and coloure always makes me feel comfortable and happy...thats just me  Wink



I'm flying without wings!!!!!!!!
User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6755 posts, RR: 17
Reply 9, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 27998 times:

I tell you what would be cool.. and that is if they could project their flightpath on the ceiling.. As you move closer to your destination, the flight path would move closer to the front door.. Hehehehe.. very cool..


Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineAirA380 From Bangladesh, joined Mar 2006, 179 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 27955 times:

Quoting Remcor (Reply 4):
Looks like a bunch of dentist chairs. And they have that 60's high school gym locker color scheme.


What goes around comes aroud...this phrase is well known in fasion industry..it will be designed by BMW 


Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 5):
9 abreast would sway customers. Seeing that picture with light blue 8 abreast seats, I don't get how that is supposed to be the "tipping point" of any decision...

Boeing is just playing with the effective Cabin width number...its only 4 inch bigger..thats all....you can't put seat in 4 inch of space...

[Edited 2006-04-03 20:30:00]

[Edited 2006-04-03 20:32:57]


I'm flying without wings!!!!!!!!
User currently offlineWidebodyphotog From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 917 posts, RR: 67
Reply 11, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 27955 times:

No unique passenger ammenities and the fundamental situation reamains, which is that the 787 has a significantly larger cabin, higher cabin pressure, and larger windows. (It's also faster, more capacious, has better fuel efficiency, and will enter service 2.5-3 years sooner) Interesting to see that the Airbus response to all of that is "mood lighting"?


-widebodyphotog



If you know what's really going on then you'll know what to do
User currently offlineConfuscius From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 3829 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 27886 times:

I've seen that cloud ceiling before...at Paris-Las Vegas, The Venetian and Caesars Palace Forum Shops, only the slots are missing.




[Edited 2006-04-03 20:42:40]


Ain't I a stinker?
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21474 posts, RR: 60
Reply 13, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 27812 times:

Quoting AirA380 (Reply 10):
Boeing is just playing with the effective Cabin width number...its only 4 inch bigger..thats all....you can't put seat in 4 inch of space...

If that bit of mis-information you carry with you helps you sleep at night, I'm not going to challenge it. Whoops, I just did.  Wink



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineNorCal From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2459 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 27812 times:

Quoting AirA380 (Reply 10):
Boeing is just playing with the effective Cabin width number...its only 4 inch bigger..thats all....you can't put seat in 4 inch of space...

That is at the A350's widest point, and the seats aren't at the proper level to take advantage of that. (I think it is somewhere around the seat bottom or shoulder height or something where max cabin width should be) Anyways, airlines wouldn't be fooled into believing they could do an extra seat if it was truly only 4 inches wider where it mattered. Also the ovoid shape of the 787 allows seats to be put much closer to the wall without the passenger feeling cramped in. Widebodyphotog had a good picture showing the cross section overlays with the numbers for the varying widths at certain points. Perhaps he can share that again?


User currently offlineDL021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11446 posts, RR: 76
Reply 15, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 27757 times:
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Well, I'd say that the 787 mockup was derided by many who said it was meaningless and the airlines would do what they wanted.

I'd also say that the extra space in the 787 may allow for another seat in some configurations but the A350 may be a few inches too short for the same ability. Either way it's moot.

The mockup only sells the sizzle, the steak is the hard numbers. It appears that the A350 is ahead of the 787 in one key area.....delivery slots available. The problem is that they're only available 3 years after the 787 is projected to be flying passengers.



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6755 posts, RR: 17
Reply 16, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 27725 times:

Quoting DL021 (Reply 15):
It appears that the A350 is ahead of the 787 in one key area.....delivery slots available.

How significant is the Boeing production increase in increasing delivery slot times? Or are the current slot based on the increased production schedule?



Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21474 posts, RR: 60
Reply 17, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 27690 times:

Quoting DL021 (Reply 15):
Well, I'd say that the 787 mockup was derided by many who said it was meaningless and the airlines would do what they wanted.

Yep, and the seats were just as unrealistic and the colors just as icky and the ceiling just as vegas and I doubt it swayed any buyers, either.

But the premise of those threads wasn't that somehow they were going to cause carriers to come running with big checks, either.

[Edited 2006-04-03 20:54:18]


Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6483 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 27690 times:

Quoting AirA380 (Thread starter):
Wow..The cabine interior Mock up certainly looks good, it will launch this week....Maybe a concern for 787...What's your thought...check out the pics on the link below!!!

Do you honestly believe that something as easily adaptable as the interior would sway an airline towards the A350 over the other, far more compelling reasons to choose a 787?

Quoting AirA380 (Reply 7):
Broadly speaking the same could said for airbus where airbus can adopt High % of composite materials as Boeing. Boeing 50% & airbus 39% of total weight
It is not a question can or would...but will they do it.

The big difference is not how much the two manufacturers utilize composites, but where it is utilized, and how it changes the manufacturing processes.

Quoting DL021 (Reply 15):
The mockup only sells the sizzle, the steak is the hard numbers. It appears that the A350 is ahead of the 787 in one key area.....delivery slots available. The problem is that they're only available 3 years after the 787 is projected to be flying passengers.

This point would be negated if Boeing elects to double production capacity.



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineYYZYYT From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 947 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 27690 times:

I like the 787 interior mock up better. It clearly featured a vase full of flowers at each door. I personally intend to fly on the airline that features the vase of flowers.

User currently offlineBoeingFever777 From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 409 posts, RR: 54
Reply 20, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 27690 times:

Quoting AirA380 (Thread starter):
Maybe a concern for 787...What's your thought...check out the pics on the link below!!!

Carriers do not purchase a/c based on the looks of the cabin but on the effictive costs of flying the a/c... They never have and never should.

How would it be a concern? How many A350 sales this yr compared to the 787?

9-52?



Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6755 posts, RR: 17
Reply 21, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 27690 times:

Quoting YYZYYT (Reply 19):
I like the 787 interior mock up better. It clearly featured a vase full of flowers at each door. I personally intend to fly on the airline that features the vase of flowers.

Hahaha.. they should have put a apple pie cooling at each window too!



Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12883 posts, RR: 100
Reply 22, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 27640 times:
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From the link:

Quote:

The cabin's new overhead bins are large enough to fit more than two standard roller bags per passenger in business class (pictured below) and more than one per economy passenger, the manufacturer adds.

Now this is something that matters to pax. Avoid checked luggage and life is better!  bigthumbsup 

But isn't Boeing also going all out on the 787 for overhead bin capacity too? Does anyone have a link with details.

As to the seats, what *tiny* PTV is designed into them? And why aren't the magazines moved upward to give more knee room? Since I know every airline will pick its own colors, that part doesn't phase me. Ok, so I have a definitive opinion where seat design should be going in coach. Once you see a concept that says "Wow! I'd rather sit in that when I fly," everything else is... not as interesting.

Thanks,
Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineAtmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 38
Reply 23, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 27601 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 17):
Yep, and the seats were just as unrealistic and the colors just as icky and the ceiling just as vegas and I doubt it swayed any buyers, either.

I seem to remember something about JAL execs being impressed by the mockup. I think the thing about the mockup is that it gives airlines a better idea of the size and shape of the 787 cabin.



ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
User currently offlineAirFrnt From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2824 posts, RR: 42
Reply 24, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 27601 times:

Quoting AirA380 (Thread starter):
Wow..The cabine interior Mock up certainly looks good, it will launch this week....Maybe a concern for 787...What's your thought...check out the pics on the link below!!!

1) This has been posted before
2) Your title for this thread is highly misleading and designed to incite


25 Post contains images Ikramerica : Hey, the bud vase helped sell the "new beetle" at VW. So if 16 year old girls are making fleet decisions for EK, the 787-10 is a no brainer!
26 Post contains links BoomBoom : I bookmarked those pages, because this issue keeps coming up over and over again. Gecas & Ilfc Tell Airbus To Overhaul A350 (by N1786b Mar 29 200
27 DAYflyer : Yawn.... 787 cheap copy.... Honestly I expected better than that.
28 MaverickM11 : Contrary to popular belief, a mockup, or a manufacturer's seat layout, do not enter into the airlines fleet acquisition decision. It's all about the b
29 Jacobin777 : cabin width does make a difference for carriers......exp-EK......they like to sardine it in......part of the reason the A320 is doing better than the
30 Post contains images AirA380 : Strictly speaking No, Customer perception matters and major airliners are aware of it..small space can be made to feel big using light and other feat
31 MaverickM11 : ...hence economics. That's a nice thought but I don't believe it for a second. It all comes down to aircraft price, operating costs, and politics.
32 Hamlet69 : Absolutely correct. An airline will spend countless man-hours evaluating each aircraft and how THEY, the airline, will configure it. Not the manufact
33 AirA380 : for case a320 I agree. There is a limit to cabin width in relation to design seating abreast plus economics. The good thing about 787 is that it is d
34 Stitch : "Projected" ceilings aren't anything new as a design feature. The 777 Payloads (that's passengers to you and I) studied such a system during the proje
35 AirA380 : It is quiet possible that the airline who is choosing to have 8 abreast in economy class is going for A350 as it give better economice in 8 seat abre
36 Post contains images A319XFW : " target=_blank>http://theaviationspecialist.com/787...n.jpg From this the outside section is 4.5 inches wider (never heard of a 787-800F being toute
37 RICARIZA : HEHEHE.. good one!
38 MaverickM11 : I think that's exactly what I said....thrice:
39 DfwRevolution : Again, Airbus can only advertise better seat/mile cost because they assume more seats than the B787. That isn't a slam-dunk case, because the B787 wi
40 Hamlet69 : MaverickM11, Apologies. However, when you said this: You specifically stated that cross-section is immaterial. It quite obviously is not. That's what
41 AirA380 : Fact: both Boeing and Airbus play with numbers makes...but experts see what is beyond that...
42 Post contains links BoomBoom : Try reading here at #113: Gecas & Ilfc Tell Airbus To Overhaul A350 (by N1786b Mar 29 2006 in Civil Aviation) That's why the 787 is more than 11 inch
43 Post contains links Widebodyphotog : As I posted in another thread, inside the cabin the 787 is 9.5 inches wider trim to trim and 11.5 inches across the armrests. Combined with larger ra
44 BoomBoom : Yes, and I would regard ILFC and GECAS as experts and they say the A350 comes up short and needs to be redesigned.
45 Zvezda : The exterior fuselage width of the B787 is 4 inches (10 cm) greater than that of the A350, however, the B787's interior width at seat level is about
46 Post contains links Widebodyphotog : Nine abreast fits rather nicely inside 787 with 747 17.2 inch seats 2 inch armrests and 19 inch isles... 787 Nine Abreast Seating As stated, four inc
47 AirA380 : Not all expert give the expert opinion...lol..sometime opinion is driven by other factors apart from professionalism...sometime it is done to get pub
48 A340600 : Hey, Those seats are disgusting! That looks far from impressive, but simply sickly. How much plastic do you want? Sam
49 Willyj : How much larger are the 350's windows? In the photo it looks like airbus just made the window frames larger, but not the actual windows. I could be mi
50 Post contains links and images B2707SST : Randy Baseler addressed this graphically in his latest post. The problem is not the A350's maximum exterior width, which is indeed 4 inches less than
51 Post contains links AirA380 : a350 will have large windows...another big blow to 787 with respect. don't know how big compare to 787 windows. for more info checkout the link below
52 DfwRevolution : If that constituted a "big blow" against the B787, I suggest you re-adjust your standards and expectations. There are far more critical issues Airbus
53 AirA380 : It doesn't look like it is not drawn to scale correct me if i'm wrong...looks to me an exaggerated representation of 787 cabin[Edited 2006-04-04 00:5
54 Post contains images Hamlet69 : You are. Then stop doing this - Listen, I try and be a fairly balanced person, giving credit where credit is due, and critcizing when necessary with
55 Post contains images 787engineer : I hope BMW didn't design these mockup interiors otherwise I will lose all faith in their abilities. Airbus needs to get a new mock-up design team (no
56 Post contains images Jacobin777 : I guess there was some miscommunication, as we had the same point regarding this fact... we are entitled to our opinons.. but the fact of the matter
57 Corey07850 : I agree with the other posters that said it looks like a dentist's office... Not only the chairs, but simply how stark and white it is... It reminds m
58 Post contains images Mainliner : The 787 mockups at least give an air of spaciousness...this A350 concept looks cramped and uninviting. And the color... . I've never been fond of the
59 MaverickM11 : I'd buy that if Airbus didn't try to reverse that same exact argument for the width of the 777 vs the 330/340, but since that's one of their "selling
60 Post contains images Jacobin777 : they'll obviously try to put "spin" on their product if its inferiour...even if it means they have to . cheers...
61 Post contains images Widebodyphotog : I can't vouch for the Boeing images, but the images I provided are straight out of CAD and are exactly to scale... Glad that they have made it public
62 ODwyerPW : That A350 cabin is Logan's Run meets Barbarella.
63 Mikester540 : I want to see the cockpit, not some cabin that will never happen!!
64 Zvezda : I can confirm that Hamlet69 is one of the fair and balanced members here. I'm my experience, the A320 is significantly wider and more comfortable tha
65 Post contains links and images JBirdAV8r : View Large View MediumPhoto © Tango3 - Team Ninervictor Airbus is going to significant time and expense to standardize the A350 cockpit with the
66 Bohlman : I can confirm that as well. But what can you expect from somebody who adds themselves to their own RU list? When I started reading arguments about th
67 Post contains images Iwok : Its the latest spin to keep the iPod generation happy! Seriously however, if you compare this: with: and use your mind when addressing this: I think
68 Post contains images Jacobin777 : Widebodyphotog...your analysis is probably some of the best here on A.net and everyone, including myself, use your data for analysis, but on this one
69 Atmx2000 : Is the 787 going to have a overhead cabin crew rest option? And has that option been ordered on the 777LR? How would the relative heights compare for
70 Post contains images Douwd20 : Looks like you better bring your own pillow if you want to sit in those seats for more than 30 minutes. Let's hope future photos show more 'support'.
71 Post contains images Zvezda : If you're going to put it that way, then I'll seriously consider putting you in that camp. Yes.
72 Bohlman : It certainly impacts passenger perspective, but there I think what widebody was pointing out is that this is likely NOT a noticable factor when airli
73 Post contains images Jacobin777 : I knew you would see to it my way....
74 Post contains links Widebodyphotog : 787 has available overhead crew rests... 787-8 Interior Arrangement 787-9 Interior Arrangement For the 777-200LR overhead Crew rests are standard and
75 Mah584jr : What a difference in the 2 mock ups. In my opinion, the 787 cabin looks far more attractive than that of the A350. However, as mentioned countless tim
76 Post contains images Jacobin777 : ahhh..I see..ok..
77 Atmx2000 : Ah, thanks. I never noticed the crew rests in the 787 airport compatibility brochure. It looks to me that the crew rests in the 787 will not be posit
78 Post contains images WingedMigrator : (about the 787) That's fine and dandy if you're an airline, but not so great if you're a lowly passenger in Y. At 9-abreast the 787 will provide no "i
79 Bohlman : If the only problem was the lighting, I think Airbus would have changed it. European style sense may be different, but.... Anyway, a mockup is suppos
80 Mah584jr : Actually, my opinion had nothing to do with the business class. The 787, just looks like it has a far more spacious aura to it. The mockup of the A35
81 Pacific777 : I have to admit that the seats on the a350 mock up look wierd and the whole scene is a bit on the white side, however I always thought that the B-787
82 Post contains images WINGS : This is just shocking. What a disappointment. I just hope that BMW comes up with something more pleasing to eye. Regards, Wings
83 Astuteman : It's a bit more than that (as others have said). What Boeing have done with the 787 cross-section is really extraordinarily elegant. A simple 15 minu
84 B707Stu : I don't know what you guys are drinking, the A350 looks awful, and I'm a big A320 fan, over B737. I think it looks like a second rate B787.
85 Post contains images Johnny : I am really surprised that so many people have accepted the 9-abreast layout of the B787. Why do i get less comfort than in todays airplanes for the s
86 Tifoso : Well, you accept it because that's what the airlines are going to stick in their aircraft. I suspect several airlines will offer premium Eco, so you
87 Danny : This picture is a typical manipulation as the A350 will have 2-4-2 config not 3-3-3. 787 with 3-3-3 will be real crampliner.
88 Post contains images AirA380 : You took the word right out of my mouth....
89 Joni : Well there are benefits from having a non-circular cross-section but there are also drawbacks, namely that the fuselage (if pressurized) will have to
90 Post contains links and images AirA380 : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A350#Specifications Can some one tell me if specification of 787 a350 correct. Looks fishy 787-9 empty weight 115.3t A359
91 777 : I'm starting my trip to the Avio Interiors Expo 2006 right now. Since I'll bring with me my digital camera, I will try to do a nice "trip report" wit
92 AirA380 : have a nice trip....fill us A.nutters with all the glory details!!!...[Edited 2006-04-04 14:14:20]
93 Dalecary : You just don't get it do you. It's about economics and 9-abreast 787 will demolish 8-abreast A350. Additionally, as you should have been able to abso
94 Hb88 : But I don't accept it! I buy tickets on the basis of, amongst other things, the seat layout - eg, carriers on semi-long haul flying the 330 are much
95 Post contains images 777 : I will be more than happy to post my pics here... but I have to deal with the terrible "A.net pics screeners judgement"...!!!
96 Widebodyphotog : Answers: 1)Because the 787 is made of much lighter materials. 2)Pound for pound Boeing twin isle aircraft are all lighter than their Airbus counterpa
97 Post contains images AirA380 : NO i get it very well and understand it is economics but I hate flying anything above 8 seat abreast..If I fly a380 I will be on the upper deck.I usu
98 NorCal : One word......composites. The 787-9 also weighs about 9 tons less than the A350-800, you get a bigger fuselage for less weight.
99 Post contains images Jbguller : ...hospital, anyone?
100 Joni : According to Airbus, they'd calculated that had they chosen to use CFRP for the entire fuselage instead of the newest Al-Li, they'd only have saved a
101 Post contains images Astuteman : I don't doubt that, Joni, but (presumably) by using composites, Boeing have managed to make a near identical sized aircraft 9 tonnes lighter. For me
102 WINGS : Which is quite crappy by the way. The B787 with 8-abreast seating would be excellent. More than this is just plain torture. Airlines also need revenu
103 Widebodyphotog : I can't comment on Airbus engineering calculations, but the result is that the A350-800 is 20,000lbs heavier than the 787-9...Maybe it's the new math
104 WINGS : Wait a minute. Isn't the A300 lighter than the B762? It's even lighter than the B783. Regards, Wings
105 BlueSky1976 : ...yeah, a nice shoulder-rubbing fest coming up from Boeing. Sorry, 17.2" seats will suck. I'll take 787 ONLY with 2+4+2 layout.... 3+3+3 in 787 will
106 Post contains links Widebodyphotog : Both the 767-200ER/767-300ER are lighter than the A300-600: 767-200ER/300ER And A300-600R The 787-3 is a more capacious airplane than the A300 carryi
107 MBMBOS : What are all those giant Mylanta bottles for?
108 Stitch : You are not alone, but you are in the minority based on airline pricing and financial models. The majority choose on either price or loyalty program.
109 WINGS : I stand corrected Widebodyphotog. I must have got confused with the data of the B783. Thanks for the correction. Regards, Wings
110 Glareskin : I'll have to agree that in this comparison I would definitely choose the 787. But OTOH I doubt we'll ever see an interior like this. But the mock-ups
111 Johnny : @Tifoso Comfort could be nearly everything: Seat width,leg-room,cabin design,light,window size,humidity etc...For me seat width is more important than
112 Post contains images Stitch : Well WINGS asked the question about comparing the A300's OEW to the 762 and 763, so Widebodyphotog was just being helpful, not making a comparative s
113 NorCal : I think the 787 offers the possibility of an entirely new Y+ class product. You could have 2-4-2 for Y+ with those 19" seats (isn't that nearly as big
114 Oobitsa : Looks like a refrigerator stuffed with dentists chairs to me.
115 FlyDreamliner : I agree 787 has a unique versatility - to offer a new class of Y service. For instance to Australia, no question, I'd fly United economy plus. Best se
116 BoomBoom : Then the airline can reconfigure thier 787s to 2-4-2 and still have better CASM than the A350. Airlines will choose what works for their business mod
117 FlyingHippo : If an airlines starts to lose business because of their configuration compared to their competitors, they will change their layout to 2-4-2... But, f
118 Post contains images Poitin : Uncomfortable dentist chairs at that. Just look at them, no back or shoulder support, and the arm rests are far too narrow. Imagine spending 10 hours
119 Post contains images AirA380 : I agree. Finally some people are seeing case for 2-4-2... Some of them here are complaining about EK sardine or cattle class ..and at the same time w
120 Post contains links and images NAV20 : Can't get over how utterly amateur that photograph is. The seats look frankly awful, the lighting is pathetic, the angle is 'pedestrian', and one susp
121 EI321 : Proof? They have spoken on fuel enonomy, not seat width.
122 Hb88 : Gotta agree on that one. But it is weird to show cattle-class mockups. They're never sexy at all. Normally (and Airbus is usually no exception), mock
123 Idlewild : That is for the Borg passengers. The interior seems very retro late 60's/early '70's to me. Didn't some of the proposed American SST programs have a
124 AirFrnt : You are acting as if we havn't ever seen 17" seats on a 747 before. On top of that, if you really care about passenger confort, fly a 787 in 2-4-2 ar
125 B2707SST : I don't think anyone here wants 9-abreast on the 787. The 8-abreast Y cabin on the 787 will be one of the most passenger-friendly ever built in terms
126 Post contains images Johnny : The problem of the the B787 is that airlines do not make their money in the coach class, but in the first and business section of their airplanes. Whe
127 Post contains images 787engineer : Not necessairly true, this is where a composite fuselage comes in handy. One of the biggest disadvantage of a non-circular cross section is an uneven
128 787engineer : You've gotta be kidding me. The cost of carrying 270 pax is not much different at all from carrying 250 pax. The cost of each of those additional pas
129 FlyingHippo : Beside what 787engineer said... Your argument about the discount is flawed. The 9th seat in each row will be MORE expensive to buy as a passenger bec
130 Wdleiser : It is all heresay until actual flight testing is done with performance statistics.
131 Josh12815 : Why dont you just wait and see how it "really" looks before people make judgements and assumptions. Sounds like another Airbus vs Boeing thread to me.
132 NorCal : Uhhh a wider plane is a wider plane, so the 787 can offer wider seats, that is an advantage. Tell that to Southwest, jetBlue, Frontier, Easyjet, Ryan
133 Post contains images Ikramerica : Are Airbus using heavier pounds? (and putting them on two little islands?) I think you mean, Model by Model, Boeing twin aisle aircraft are lighter t
134 Post contains images Shamrock350 : While looking at the images I thought that it was such a disappointment compared to these images that were released a while ago. These images have dis
135 Post contains images YYZYYT : ** Ahem ** Nitpick time: Actually it is all speculation until flight testing. Thereafter it will still be hearsay* - unless you happen to be the pers
136 Post contains images Jacobin777 : ....do you have any proof that carriers don't make money on cattle class? If you comment is true (which it isn't), then why don't carriers remove mor
137 AirFrnt : Not once deregulation and fragmentation hit. In fact, the profitable carriers in America are the carriers that have limited (or don't even have) firs
138 787engineer : Now, those interiors actually look interesting, inviting, and comfortable.
139 Post contains links and images Keesje :   That Randy is a fox, why not make a consistent drawing of a 6 abreast A320 row cramped into a 737 fuselage, window folks with their heads in the s
140 Widebodyphotog : What do performance statistics have to do with how wide the cabin is or the measurable differences that everyone can clearly observe now? Will flight
141 Hb88 : No you're not. Personally my ideal configuration is the 2-4-2 on the A330 when travelling with my partner. We get an aisle and a window and almost fe
142 Atmx2000 : If you are 6 and a half feet tall, as the guy in the diagram is aproximately, you are certainlny going to feel cramped.
143 Post contains images AirA380 : These are just images to give you artistic impression: in other words artistic impressing are not technical drawing. Comparison of cabin width cannot
144 Keesje : I think your prefferences are clear to everybody now. The room on top of the 787 cabin seems considerably larger then on the A350 in Randy´s picture
145 FlyingHippo : Well, to be fair, I think anyone would hate it if you're in a packed airplane in Y class, no matter if it's 2-3-2 in a 767, 3-3 in a 737/A320, 3-3-3
146 BoomBoom : That's where the crew rest area will go.
147 Post contains images AirA380 : I think randy resereved that space for passengers who travel with their dogs..so dogs can seat there and have candy on long flight...Wow
148 Post contains images Hb88 : If there's an alternative, and there often is on competitive long-haul routes like Europe - Asia - Australasia, I would! Actually, we do this all the
149 Post contains images Hamlet69 : That is certainly an argument one could give, as it is definitely personal opinion on your own comfort level. I'm just the opposite, actually. I'm 6'
150 Widebodyphotog : Preferences? I really don't have any preference as far as the subject of this thread is concerned. I fly about 100,000 miles a year on all different
151 FlyingHippo : Well, they might not be "technical drawings", but I think they're drawn to scale, otherwise I don't think they're that stupid to use it to illustrate
152 Post contains links Widebodyphotog : Number one: the Boeing images don't need a "scale factor" because the scale is the same. The cabin dims are overlayed...of course they are drawn to s
153 Post contains images FlyingHippo : I'd say that is smart!! When I fly out of JFK, usually with AA, I choose the airplane type very carefully... I try to avoid 737/757s (Even I love 757
154 Post contains images OlegShv : " target=_blank>http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles....html I like the 2-4-2 arrangement, but let's be honest here - this A350 interior mock up looks
155 Thebry : It's a Transporter! Kewl! "Humidity not high enough... windows too (cough) small... cabin too narrow... Beam me off this thing, Scotty!" LOL. Just a
156 Babybus : There are many reasons why the A320 outsells the 737, not only cabin width. Everyone makes all sorts of claims while the design is still in design an
157 AirFrnt : Because The difference in height and width doesn't prohibit both Airbus and Boeing from seating 3-3. I suspect you knew that. Personally I prefer the
158 Bohlman : Because the difference in the A320 is 3 inches, and it's 12 inches in the B787.
159 Post contains images Jacobin777 : nice job of misquoting me......... ...I said part
160 Atmx2000 : I remember the whining. My feeling was that new technology (composites, bleedless engines , electrical systems, etc) in the 787 was distracting Airbu
161 Coa747 : Don't let either manufactuers cabin mock ups fool you. I saw a picture in the latest Airways Mag where Airbus was showing off a mockup of the A380. In
162 787engineer : Well you have to also consder that its 3 inches (is that correct? nvm don't answer that it'll start another war) over six seats and one aisle, while
163 Ikramerica : Sorry, but this is getting tiresome. Who says they need to add only Y seats to the plane? 8 rows of 9 abreast take up less space than 9 rows of 8 abr
164 Post contains images Jacobin777 : I guess you're right....sort of an "indirect way"..... I was figuring though, one doesn't see that in direct replacement.....ie-a CX 744 which flies
165 Ikramerica : That's a typo. Of course adding pitch and adding pitch would be redundant. I meant to write that they could increase Y pitch throughout the plane and
166 Post contains links and images Keesje : I must say I'm impressed by the mental flexibility of Boeing market communications and many members here. For years the 7e7/787 is being promoted as s
167 Shenzhen : Congrats, you've come around.
168 JayinKitsap : I would really love a dimensioned drawing of the defining geometry and the deck height. Thanks.
169 KrisYYZ : After seeing the pictures, this thread should be titled: A350 cabin mock may tip orders to Boeing What a disappointment, I don't see anything signific
170 Post contains images Glareskin : What would be the consequence for the payload if Airbus would lower the deck? If the picture is correct approximately 20 centimeters would make it co
171 HighFlyer9790 : Well, lets see here....when was the last time an airline ordered a new interior with the same cabin as the mock up? the A350 cabin certainly looks inv
172 GVWOW : Not for a while, and certainly not often. Aer Lingus's A330s and Iberia's A340s look quite like the mockups, but the mockups after all looked pretty
173 FlyingHippo : What is wrong with that? Boeing has learned it's lessons from the past and caters to their customers. What you just made me realize is that 787 has s
174 AirFrnt : You would loose the ability to load side by side LD containers.
175 AirA380 : First of all, a techenical Drawing Consists of enough details to reproduce the product/item. It is quiet clear that the infomation given on randy Ill
176 Post contains images BoomBoom : You are sooooo JEALOUS of the success of the 787....
177 N328KF : Are you for real? Seriously, does it need to include specifications to the micrometer for you to be able to understand the concept of scale? It might
178 B2707SST : This is a bit much, Keesje. Remember the A380's on-board exercise rooms, creches, casinos, duty-free shopping malls? Those were the subject of just a
179 Post contains images Keesje : At least 5 airlines are flying the A330 9 abreast in economy, for years. The A350 is a little wider. Why is this so forcefully ignored all the time?
180 Post contains images FlyingHippo : I don't think anyone is denying it, or ignoring it... However, who are the "at least 5 airlines" that are flying A330 9 abreast? And out of them, how
181 BoomBoom : So 9 abreast is good in the A350, but bad in the wider 787? I must say I'm impressed by the mental flexibility of Keesje. I just find it remarkable h
182 Widebodyphotog : Boeing's reference to cabin F.L. is 48 inches on both aircraft. Sorry but I was asked not to give exact dimensions with reference to 787 W.L. or "Z"
183 Astuteman : Not really, I've said from the start that I thought the 787 cross-section was more right-sized in today's world, just as I've said from the start tha
184 Widebodyphotog : You would not be able to load LD-3's period without lowering the cargo hold floor as well. A 20 centimeter lower cargo floor would not only limit you
185 Atmx2000 : Or were they among the first to realize that the 787 would provide a similar level of comfort to the 747, an aircraft that AI has flown for decades?
186 Widebodyphotog : A300/A330/A340 nine abreast: 16.7 inch seats, 16.5 inch isles 1.8 inch armrests, 39.5 inch s.h. @ window seat 787 nine abreast: 17.2 inch seats, 19 i
187 FlyingHippo : So... Can the 787 have the same width aisles as the 9-abreast 330s and make the seats a bit bigger? Hm... but I guess it doesn't really make a differ
188 Post contains images Jacobin777 : proportionately-wise, you are right...I think they will decrease the Y seats, as that will increase yields...but they don't want to decrease too many
189 B2707SST : This has already been said by others above, but I would bet that those five are charter carriers flying 2-3 hour holiday routes within Europe, not in
190 AirA380 : Why are most people using 747 comfort level in reference to seat width....who said 747 is comfortable... it is stated as a fact and that's what get m
191 Keesje : I was reacting on B2707SST stating the A350 can not match 8-9 abreast flexibility. I think we all agree this is now defused. FlyingHippo, are we star
192 B2707SST : My argument was and remains that the 787 permits 9-abreast with a reasonable level of comfort while the A350 does not. The 787's seat width in 9-abre
193 787engineer : No one. Atmx2000 said the 9-abreast in a 787 would have SIMILAR comfort as the 747, which I think everyone would consider adequate. No one said it wa
194 Atmx2000 : The 747 is not uncomfortable. It is acceptable for the vast majority of people. The 0.6" improvement on the A300/A330/A340 in 8Y is nice, but certain
195 B2707SST : You're correct; I thought I had seen a seating chart with 9-abreast, but Boeing's latest manual shows 276 Y at 8-abreast and 32" pitch. I must have b
196 Atmx2000 : I expect them to do so. The 787-3 can handle the higher passenger payload and reach anywhere in Japan as well as some mainland Asian destinations lik
197 AvObserver : Comparing cabin width in favor of one or the other design is relatively meaningless because Airbus has to rely on a legacy cross-section for the A350
198 Glareskin : Thanks for your explaination. But this could mean that it would be doable with 'only' a reduced cargoload. I don't know how serious this would be, bu
199 Atmx2000 : One of the attractive features of the A330 family aircraft over the 767 was its ability to hold dual LD3s side by side in the cargo compartment. Losi
200 Widebodyphotog : Sorry for being unclear but my intent was to show that it's completely impractical to the degree of 20 cm. You're basically redesigning the airplane
201 Atmx2000 : Not to mention a lopsided passenger to cargo ratio more similar to the A380.
202 Jaysit : Yes, but they're all charter or low cost holiday operators. No major carrier flies a 9 abreast Airbus wide-bodied jet.
203 Slarty : That ceiling projection makes it look like you've just entered Hogwart's. The dental chair seating is kind of funky too.
204 Post contains images MrMcCoy : This topic needs a new thread.. already past 200 posts!
205 Post contains images Johnny : @ Jaysit That is not correct - just book a flight with an A330 from Thai Airways,like i did some years ago... Johnny
206 Shenzhen : I hear you Johnny. I flew on a Thai 777 and wasn't too impressed, after paying business fare, to sit in their 8 across busniess class. Cheers
207 Trex8 : Are you sure? I've been on a 10 abreast TG 777 but the 3 times I've been on a TG A330, its 8 across.
208 Glareskin : OK, thanks for the explanation. It was just a silly suggestion from someone who's obviously not a machinical / aerodynamic engineer....
209 Post contains images Atmx2000 : Well neither am I. I just stayed at a Holiday Inn Express. Actually it's just a matter of geometry.
210 Slarty : 8? I remember 7 (2-3-2). Economy was 9 (3-3-3). Or did you pay cheapie near-full-fare "business" economy, near the front of the economy section (like
211 Post contains links and images Iwok : We just got another shoutout from Randy on his blog "By the way, I see that another good discussion is underway about cabin interiors on Airliners.net
212 Post contains images AirA380 : He is sure gonna gonna get unconditional love for Boeing products as there are so many B fans...no offence. On serious node. If he came to A.net to d
213 Elvis777 : Hello Air380, Your last post raised an eyebrow. Are you sure that there are more B than A enthusiasts? I dont think that is the case. I dare say that
214 AirA380 : Soory I dont know how get stats you asked but do contact airliners.net contact details. they may be able provide it.
215 Post contains images BMIFlyer : Yeah, and they make it a pain in the Ass to close the bins too About time some of you learnt that the bins have a size limit - if your bag is too big
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