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Air NZ To Transfer Aus/PI Ops To Freedom Air  
User currently offlineTG992 From New Zealand, joined Jan 2001, 2910 posts, RR: 10
Posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5905 times:

For some months Air New Zealand Limited has been in consultation with unions and employees to review a proposal regarding the future of the Tasman and Pacific Island flying. These markets continue to under perform and the Company is unable to absorb these ongoing losses. As part of this, it was proposed that the Freedom Air and Air New Zealand branded services will be conducted by Freedom Air Limited.

The decision is that Air New Zealand Limited will gradually withdraw from flying a number of the Pacific Island and Tasman routes. Over that period we will be releasing our A320 aircraft.
Freedom Air Limited will begin operating a larger A320 fleet covering Freedom Air and Air New Zealand branded services, including Pacific Island and Tasman operations.

The removal of the first four A320 aircraft is timed to occur between 26 April 2006 and 8 June 2006.

There will be no compulsory cabin crew redundancies as a consequence of this decision and any lower numbers required by Air New Zealand will be achieved through attrition.

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I bolded some text to clarify that AIR NZ FLIGHTS WILL CONTINUE to all destinations - but crew will be Freedom Air employees and operate both NZ and SJ "branded" flights.


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87 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4865 posts, RR: 10
Reply 1, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5895 times:

Going to be some headscratching by customers with the occasional freedom a/c operating NZ or vice versa, or the inevitable stuff up over the PA "Welcome aboard this Freedoooo I mean Air New Zealand flight to..." lol
but on the whole I think it will work.



56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25693 posts, RR: 85
Reply 2, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5895 times:
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Okay, I am totally confused. Already.

If Air New Zealand:

Quoting TG992 (Thread starter):
will gradually withdraw from flying a number of the Pacific Island and Tasman routes.

- that would usually mean, in English, that Air New Zealand has "withdrawn" from those routes, they have ceased to fly them.

But - apparently - in this case, it doesn't mean that. It seems to mean that some Air New Zealand "branded services" will be flown by someone else.

Quoting TG992 (Thread starter):
Freedom Air Limited will begin operating a larger A320 fleet covering Freedom Air and Air New Zealand branded services

I miss the days when an airline was an airline and that was it - you knew what you were getting.

mariner

[Edited 2006-04-05 03:27:03]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4865 posts, RR: 10
Reply 3, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5872 times:

Basically what it means is that all A320 operations for NZ will be operated by Freedom Air crews but operated as NZ flights. Short Haul destinations operated by Long haul aircraft will continue to be operated by NZ long haul crews.


56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25693 posts, RR: 85
Reply 4, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5829 times:
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Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 3):
Basically what it means is that all A320 operations for NZ will be operated by Freedom Air crews but operated as NZ flights.

Yes, I do understand what they are going to do.

But if Freedom Air is good enough to fly as Air New Zealand - what is the point of Air New Zealand?

Or - when does it stop? Today trans-Tasman, but tomorrow - nearer Asia, perhaps?

And then - ?

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineTG992 From New Zealand, joined Jan 2001, 2910 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5827 times:

I think those of us under 40 have to say that, judging by the deterioration in conditions over the last 10 years, it's going to be virtually impossible to have a long-term career in this industry anymore. Sad, but true.


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User currently offlineAerokiwi From New Zealand, joined Jul 2000, 2746 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5813 times:

Excellent move by Air NZ. Should've been done a long time ago. Though this was inevitable with the transfer of A320s to Freedom announced last year (or was that more recently and only in reference to a few airframes?).

SJ is simply NZ's vehicle for driving down costs. Just like QF's use of JQ.

And if claims are true that SJ is profitable on the Tasman, then this should fix that little problem for Air NZ and render any merger of trans-tasman ops with QF completely redundant.


User currently offlineTG992 From New Zealand, joined Jan 2001, 2910 posts, RR: 10
Reply 7, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5810 times:

Not necessarily - even though the cheaper SJ crew will be operating, the NZ product will still be offered (small meal, complimentary alcohol, airpoints, jetways, a myriad of other things) - all with increased costs.


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User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25693 posts, RR: 85
Reply 8, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5810 times:
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Quoting Aerokiwi (Reply 6):
SJ is simply NZ's vehicle for driving down costs.

Why not drive down costs within the mainline?

Then all of mainline benefits.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineAerokiwi From New Zealand, joined Jul 2000, 2746 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5798 times:

Quoting Mariner (Reply 8):
Why not drive down costs within the mainline?

I'm guessing it has to do with the unions. In a sense, perhaps this is what they're doing. By presenting a viable, cheaper alternative to mainline, NZ now has the ability to simply say "well hey, you guys can take a hike becasue we've got this option over here and it's profitable". Just gives NZ management greater bargaining power I suspect.


User currently offlineAntskip From Australia, joined Jan 2006, 936 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5784 times:

So, if QF and NZ Tasman code-sharing also happens, QF passengers might find themselves on a Freedom flight, and NZ passengers on a JQ flight?

User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25693 posts, RR: 85
Reply 11, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5774 times:
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Quoting Aerokiwi (Reply 9):
NZ now has the ability to simply say "well hey, you guys can take a hike becasue we've got this option over here and it's profitable".

You may be right.

But, having been back in NZ a year (after forty years away) I am shocked by the present passivity of the unions.

I am not saying it is a bad thing, just that it wouldn't - would not - have happened when I was here in the sixties.

Air NZ management appears to be getting pretty much whatever it wants, with only token resistance by the unions and the mildest of noises from the government.

So - the move to Freedom Air seems to me to be playing at being a big airline.

As in "Qantas has a loco - look, we've got one too!"

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineFlyjetstar From Australia, joined Feb 2006, 959 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5744 times:

Quoting TG992 (Thread starter):
The removal of the first four A320 aircraft is timed to occur between 26 April 2006 and 8 June 2006.

Does this mean NZ will have no A320's in their fleet when this exercise is finished?
They will be owned/leased by SJ?

Quoting Aerokiwi (Reply 6):
And if claims are true that SJ is profitable on the Tasman, then this should fix that little problem for Air NZ and render any merger of trans-tasman ops with QF completely redundant.

Here we go again!


User currently offlinePilotdude09 From Australia, joined May 2005, 1777 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5726 times:

Quoting Mariner (Reply 4):
But if Freedom Air is good enough to fly as Air New Zealand - what is the point of Air New Zealand?

You could say that about Qantas, It's all about costs seems Air NZ is concentrating on its profit making long haul routes. Same with QF hocking off its "lesiure destinations" to JQ and this is what NZ seems to be doing with SJ if i make sense Smile

Quoting Antskip (Reply 10):
So, if QF and NZ Tasman code-sharing also happens, QF passengers might find themselves on a Freedom flight, and NZ passengers on a JQ flight?

That would just be bloody confusing and if QF and NZ keep some of their own metal on any of the profitable routes that would be even more confusing. The hing that gets me is they all have different seats, IFE meal options etc.....



Qantas, Still calling Australia Home.........
User currently offlineTG992 From New Zealand, joined Jan 2001, 2910 posts, RR: 10
Reply 14, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5720 times:

I really thought I'd been clear enough in the original post but obviously not.

Freedom Air will operate the A320s under their AOC, but the yellow Freedom planes will still operate SJ routes offering SJ product (ie SYD-HLZ with f&b for sale). The Air New Zealand planes will still carry the Air NZ livery, operate the Air NZ routes (ie AKL-SYD with complimentary f&b) but with crew employed by Freedom.



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User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25693 posts, RR: 85
Reply 15, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5667 times:
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Quoting TG992 (Reply 14):
I really thought I'd been clear enough in the original post but obviously not.

I thought you were very clear.

The Freedom crews are cheaper. Yes? No?

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinePilotdude09 From Australia, joined May 2005, 1777 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5667 times:

So will NZ still operate ther 744 AKL-BNE services and 767 Transtasman services or will this all be A320?


Qantas, Still calling Australia Home.........
User currently offlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5359 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 5651 times:

Quoting Pilotdude09 (Reply 16):
So will NZ still operate ther 744 AKL-BNE services and 767 Transtasman services or will this all be A320?

Read reply 3.

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 3):
Basically what it means is that all A320 operations for NZ will be operated by Freedom Air crews but operated as NZ flights. Short Haul destinations operated by Long haul aircraft will continue to be operated by NZ long haul crews.

What will the seat pitch be on the NZ A320's? Will it remain the same as current?


User currently offlinePilotdude09 From Australia, joined May 2005, 1777 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 5627 times:

Thanks my bad for not reading the whole thing lol


Qantas, Still calling Australia Home.........
User currently offlineTG992 From New Zealand, joined Jan 2001, 2910 posts, RR: 10
Reply 19, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 5620 times:

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 17):

What will the seat pitch be on the NZ A320's? Will it remain the same as current?

The Air NZ aircraft ARE NOT CHANGING AT ALL.

Quoting Mariner (Reply 15):

The Freedom crews are cheaper. Yes? No?

Yes. I believe the cabin crew start out on about 23-24k plus extras.  boggled  The pilots are also earning a lot less - maybe 100k?



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User currently offlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5359 posts, RR: 11
Reply 20, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 5612 times:

Quoting TG992 (Reply 19):
The Air NZ aircraft ARE NOT CHANGING AT ALL.

Ok, cheers TG992. Havn't even flown on the NZ A320 yet. SJ's aren't that nice, seat wise, to cramped and seat pitch is non exsistant it seems, though I am 6"2 and a bit.


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12340 posts, RR: 18
Reply 21, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5550 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Good to see NZ A320s will still remain in NZ colours even thou SJ will operate the flight. Would any extra services be added as a result of this change over?

User currently offlineDJ738 From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 410 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 5510 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 21):
Would any extra services be added as a result of this change over?

No, the only changes are to the crewing arrangements onboard.

SJ have been recruiting additional cabin crew to ramp up to this for some months now, but only offering training contracts, and then subsequent temporary contracts. In case, for whatever reason, this plan fell through.

Now that the i's are dotted, and t's are crossed, I would think it likely some permanant contracts be offered to SJ cabin crew. Would I be correct in this assumption?


User currently offlineTG990 From New Zealand, joined Sep 2005, 71 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 5499 times:

Why doesn't NZ just pull it's aircraft out of most of the routes accross the tasman and shove SJ in there, like QF and JQ?

QF has kept some of their flights trans tasman where it's needed (where more biz class pax fly) and the rest are Jetstar........ why is NZ doing this big confusing mess?


User currently offlineTG992 From New Zealand, joined Jan 2001, 2910 posts, RR: 10
Reply 24, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 5492 times:

Quoting TG990 (Reply 23):
Why doesn't NZ just pull it's aircraft out of most of the routes accross the tasman and shove SJ in there, like QF and JQ?

Because a large proportion of our passengers require amenities such as lounges, frequent flyer programmes, business class, inflight food and beverages. They do not wish to pay for their food or be subjected to PA games and facepainting.

Another reason is that as part of a global alliance NZ needs to offer a reasonably comprehensive network in our part of the world. SJ doesn't cut it in those conditions.



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25 Kiwiflyer791 : Rumour going round the place is that Air NZ will have 1800 employees in around 18 months to 2 years time. Basically becoming a virtual airline, own a
26 DJ738 : This is NO "big confusing mess" - as far as the travelling public are concerned there'll be NO difference. Passengers fly PacificBlue and don't know
27 Copaair737 : Is the LAX-Pacific Islands-AKL service going to be transferred to Freedom Air as well, or will it stay with the current 767? I would think the A320 wo
28 DJ738 : Only EXISTING A320 services will now be crewed by Freedom Air hired staff rather than Air New Zealand hired staff. No routes will be changed. Any fli
29 NZ1 : The SJ branded A320's are identical inside to the NZ ones now. They have been progressively refitted with the leather seats over the past few weeks.
30 ZK-NBT : Ah ok, thats good to hear!
31 TG990 : ok, ok i see now lol... makes sense once it's drilled in. i can see as part of the star alliance NZ needs those trans tasman operations still. thanks
32 Zkpilot : As previously said it is ONLY A320 services. All other services will be operated by NZ longhaul crews.
33 Mariner : Regardless of what it is called, another airline will be flying the routes, with its own operating certificate. It is a somewhat sad day for me that A
34 Nzrich : Just remember it will be just like Mt Cook ,Air Nelson and Eagle Air operated flights domestically they are all operated by those airlines but 100% o
35 Mariner : I guess we disagree as to whether this is a good thing or not. mariner
36 Mr AirNZ : They are actually a little. The NZ A320's appear to have an extra row being added gradually to give them C8/Y144. Checked in an OJA flight today with
37 Flyer88 : Dont shoot me down for this one guys but I was just thinking....why doesnt NZ let SJ fly to all the destionations that they have dropped. Destinations
38 Aerokiwi : I think that's a potentially excellent idea. Would make sense. Certainly nothing to be "shot down" about.
39 Flyer88 : Awww thanks......respected users list, yup lol
40 Kiwiflyer791 : Yep, all the A320s being done, OJF being done this week and another one comes in at the weekend. At least 8 or 9 (probably more) have been through th
41 NZ1 : Everything you asked is correct. About 4 to go I think. NZ1
42 TG992 : The rumour that this may happen has been floating around for some time. I wouldn't be surprised at all.
43 NZ1 : We can't, mainly because we have not re-newed the leases and the lease companies have already found new homes for them. However, we could transfer th
44 Flyjetstar : Is that a hint?
45 Nzrich : Believe me i dont think its a good idea .. But for a while the pacific crew will still be operating some of the A320's till their crew numbers fall t
46 Post contains images NZ1 : Maybe!!!!! NZ1
47 767ER : Call me snobby but I am not going to tolerate face painting, loo rolls down the aslie and being spoken to like a 14 year old on their first overseas t
48 777ER : SJ don't play toilet rolls down the aisle or paint passengers faces. Not sure if DJ pass the toilet rolls on Tasman runs anymore. When I first flew S
49 DJ738 : You won't be flying FREEDOM. You'll be flying AIR NEW ZEALAND and be offered the AIR NEW ZEALAND product. Your cabin crew will be employed by Freedom
50 TBCITDG : How do NZ employees feel about SJ crewing their flights?
51 Mr AirNZ : Some I have spoken with are unhappy about it, others realise and accept that like it or not that's just the way the industry is changing.
52 Zkpilot : Well SJ is owned by NZ and on short-haul flights there isn't really that much service anyways except for drinks and a sandwich type thing. Is like ho
53 Nzrich : Most are not that happy as it was a great mix of flying between domestic 737 flying and international A320 flying ..Mind you from what i have heard i
54 Miami1 : Freedom website says their 320 config is 8/142... What will be the final configuration? 8/144? How is this achieved? Removing the fwd galley? Or reduc
55 DJ738 : ...here (from reply 36) is part of the answer to your question / confirmation: Don't know how this is achieved though.
56 Mr AirNZ : Let me explain the configuration across the NZ/SJ fleet. The aircraft are all being re-configured to give C8/144. OJA,B,C,D,E,F,G,H,I,M,N,O will all h
57 Miami1 : Thanks Mr Air NZ! Can one assume that OJK-L do not have as large a forward galley as the rest of the fleet. I know the initial SJ 168Y config did not
58 Mr AirNZ : Yep correct OJK/OJL don't have the forward galley yet OJO does. Go figure.
59 Nzrich : Well the last row is tight it doesnt recline at all
60 Simpilicity : Mariner, u've hit the nail on the head. Air NZ has no long term future. NZ is abandoning short haul as QF is doing acorss Tasman & long haul ... yike
61 NZ1 : What a ridiculous statement!! Still can't let go of the past can you? NZ1
62 Planemanofnz : So will they where SJ uniforms or will all SJ emplyees even on the HLZ/DUD e.t.c flights where the new NZ uniforms? So is it 31" now? This is pretty
63 Flyer88 : I dont think that you get the picture. Air NZ is not abandoning the market at all. They are simply using Freedom Crew to operate the flights and that
64 AerorobNZ : They will be in the Air New Zealand Zambesi uniform for NZ flights, and SJ uniforms for SJ flights. The only difference will be that they are paid le
65 767ER : Yes I certainly agree on that statement.......problem NZ has attracting the high yield customers ex Australia is the wretched stop in AKL. Personally
66 ZK-NBT : I am dumbfounded by that comment, how on earth you came to that conclusion i'll never no. Why don't any US carriers fly to AKL then if they could do
67 Mr AirNZ : Last group of SJ FA's I spoke to last week informed me they will just be wearing the NZ uniform. If the company were to continue with the yellow it w
68 Mariner : Apparently, Air New Zealand cannot profitably operate trans-Tasman routes, so they are wet leasing a cheaper company - a company that they also happe
69 Mr AirNZ : Makes sense to me. The cost of carrying the extra weight is insignificant and during busy times they can pack in an extra 4/6 passengers. Also I read
70 NZ1 : OJK and OJL are being leased for 12 months to companies in France and Brazil, but will be back. NZ1[Edited 2006-04-09 07:42:51]
71 777ER : So you totally expect NZ and even QF to operate every flight to/from NZ and Australia with a profit even with more richer airlines operating on the s
72 DJ738 : SJ crew will be wearing the NZ Zambesi uniform at all times whether crewing an SJ flight or an NZ flight. It has been suggested they will wear some s
73 Antskip : I think you will find that most days NZ (especially) and QF offer significantly cheaper tickets than any non-local airlines (I assume your "richer ai
74 Mariner : Please read what I said. I expect Air New Zealand to cut its coat according to its cloth. If Freedom Air can do this profitably because, I am told in
75 RichardJF : I like Rob Fyfe's comments about a Qantas tie up. Really, at the end of the day why bother hooking up with that dinosaur. The ultimate problem for NZ
76 Antskip : which comments? which airline are you referring to?
77 Post contains links 777ER : http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3632656a13,00.html I never said kiwis. Our means the customers
78 Post contains images Kiwiandrew : I guess you knew what you meant by 'the whole SAM' , and I think I know what you mean.. can you confirm you are referring to the 'single aviation mar
79 Antskip : Too right, I misread you. My apologies.
80 Post contains links 777ER : From todays Sunday Star Times http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3632656a13,00.html
81 Post contains images Kiwiandrew : " target=_blank>http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,....html thanks mate
82 Post contains links Antskip : Fyfe clearly does want to "hook up with the dinosaur", if QF is the "dinosaur" (?). He just wants it soon. ""We have five services a day flying Auckl
83 SunriseValley : This sounds like an NZ initiative with QF less interested in a solution or in one that is clearly to their advantage.One of NZ's problems is that the
84 Koruman : An NZ-QF tie-up is not good for this frequent business Australia to NZ traveller. I get 150 Air NZ Airpoints dollars for each return Business class tr
85 Flyer88 : Its funny that you bring up the SJ admin issue. They do have an admin but I was talking with a mate of mine whose dad is in the SJ management and he
86 Zkpilot : Well SJ has its own tech crew as well, I'm not too sure if the SJ operated NZ services will use NZ pilots or SJ ones. Nobody has said anything of the
87 Simpilicity : Will the new cosde share agreement between QF & NZ include all Freedom Air & Jetstar trans-tasmans services?
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