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Small Community Grant Proposals Trickle In...  
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33289 posts, RR: 71
Posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 3093 times:

This year's round of proposals for SCAD (Small Community Air Service Development) grants has started trickling in. The DOT-sponsored program awards grants to small communities to help in luring new air service. Such grants this year have welcomed airTran to Richmond and Delta Connection to Fargo, among other things.

So far:


  • Flint, Michigian for Delta Connection to New York City-JFK
  • Jackson, Miss. for Continental Express to Newark
  • Montrose, Colo. for improved air service during the summer
  • Scotts Bluff, Neb. for marketing
  • Vail-Eagle, Colo. for improved air service frequencies during the summer



a.
47 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 3087 times:

Do you happen to have a link at hand where all the applications are being listed?

User currently offlineNkops From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2709 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3076 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
Richmond

What constitutes a small community??? RIC isn't that small of a city.



I have no association with Spirit Airlines
User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5848 posts, RR: 28
Reply 3, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3045 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
So far:

MAH, add Peoria. They are now listed for a $750,000 proposal for support to attract service to an additional hub.

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 1):
Do you happen to have a link at hand where all the applications are being listed?

http://dms.dot.gov/search/searchResu...umberValue=23671&searchType=docket

Quoting Nkops (Reply 2):
What constitutes a small community??? RIC isn't that small of a city.

The program is for airports that meet the DOT's definition of a "small hub" or smaller for calendar year 1997 and "had insufficient air service or unreasonably high airfares". (Congress' wording)

A small hub is an airport with between 0.05% and 0.25% of US boardings. Roughly 460 airports in the US qualify for the SCASD program as a small hub or non-hub because they had less than 0.25% of boardings in 1997.

[Edited 2006-04-05 16:11:21]


"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3035 times:

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 3):
Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 1):
Do you happen to have a link at hand where all the applications are being listed?

http://dms.dot.gov/search/searchResu...ocket

Sweet, thanks for the link Big grin .


User currently offlineNkops From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2709 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 3004 times:

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 3):
The program is for airports that meet the DOT's definition of a "small hub" or smaller for calendar year 1997

Thank you.... seems about time to update it



I have no association with Spirit Airlines
User currently offline7E72004 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3587 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2991 times:

what qualifies as a focus cit?


The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33289 posts, RR: 71
Reply 7, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2990 times:

Quoting Nkops (Reply 5):
Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 3):
The program is for airports that meet the DOT's definition of a "small hub" or smaller for calendar year 1997

Thank you.... seems about time to update it

Not really, considering that the more successful applications of this grants are from more midsize communities, such as Sarasota with airTran. Actual small communities, like Duluth, Minnesota (American Eagle to ORD) and Sioux Falls, South Dakota (America West to Phoenix) get these grants, and then see the airlines leave a year later because the grants expire and the service cannot be substained on its own.



a.
User currently offlineATCT From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2350 posts, RR: 37
Reply 8, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2960 times:

My new company, Regions Air, won a few EAS (Essential Air Service) contracts from the DOT. We're picking up CLE-MGW, CKB, and PKB West Virginia. (We've applied for a few more, so lets hope  Smile

ATCT



"The way to get started is to quit talking and begin doing." - Walt Disney
User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5848 posts, RR: 28
Reply 9, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2933 times:

Quoting Nkops (Reply 5):
Thank you.... seems about time to update it



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 7):
Not really, considering that the more successful applications of this grants are from more midsize communities, such as Sarasota with airTran. Actual small communities, like Duluth, Minnesota (American Eagle to ORD) and Sioux Falls, South Dakota (America West to Phoenix) get these grants, and then see the airlines leave a year later because the grants expire and the service cannot be substained on its own.

I don't think there is much movement between the DOT's classifications of non-hub, small hub, etc. Few airports see such explosive growth that they would gain a much larger % of the national passenger total which is also growing at the same time.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineFlyinryan99 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 2032 posts, RR: 14
Reply 10, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2905 times:

Does anyone know the lag time from when the DOT gets the proposal till when it's posted in docket form? I think the deadline is tomorrow and with this few of them actually submitted, so far everyone practically would get it.

TOL was going to try and get ground services equipment for the airport since they want to run their own ground operation for all of the airlines. For some reason they decided to change their mind yesterday....


User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5848 posts, RR: 28
Reply 11, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2869 times:

Quoting Flyinryan99 (Reply 10):
Does anyone know the lag time from when the DOT gets the proposal till when it's posted in docket form?

Typically I see a 2 or 3 business day lag before everything is posted in the DMS.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineNkops From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2709 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2837 times:

Quoting ATCT (Reply 8):
My new company, Regions Air, won a few EAS (Essential Air Service) contracts from the DOT

I believe that EAS and SCAD are two different things. I believe EAS is mainly for small communities with no air service at all, while SCADS can go to any small airport even if service already exists. (The reason I say this is because ACY tried to get ATL service on DL even though they already had CVG service.)



I have no association with Spirit Airlines
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33289 posts, RR: 71
Reply 13, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2724 times:

Quoting ATCT (Reply 8):
My new company, Regions Air, won a few EAS (Essential Air Service) contracts from the DOT. We're picking up CLE-MGW, CKB, and PKB West Virginia. (We've applied for a few more, so lets hope

That is EAS. Different from SCASD.

More in...

  • Cedar Rapids, Iowa for support of current RJ service to Atlanta and St. Louis and new service to the South/Southeast US
  • Charleston, WV for service to New York City or Newark
  • Naples, Florida for improved airport facilities, marketing, lure new carrier
  • Victoria, Texas for improved frequency of service to Houston


Also proposals from Moline, IL, Klammanth Falls, Oregon, and Iron County, Michigan that I haven't read yet.



a.
User currently offlineSeeTheWorld From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1325 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2715 times:

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 9):
I don't think there is much movement between the DOT's classifications of non-hub, small hub, etc.

Actually, there is a pretty big difference these days between the type of service at a small-hub vs.a non-hub, and if you look at the awards over the past few years, you'll see that the vast majority go to non-hub airports. Most small-hub airports have decent service, and so a grant to one of them is more the exception than the rule. Occassionally, one slips through for a variety of reasons, some legitimate and some not so legitimate, i.e. think Capitol Hill.


User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2676 times:

What's the cutoff as far as total annual boardings then that constitutes 0.25%? Looking at some of the cities involved, I'm guessing at least 500,000?

And 1997 was 9 years ago, why are we still using data so old, from before the LCC revolution AND 9/11?


User currently offlineSeeTheWorld From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1325 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2659 times:

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 15):
And 1997 was 9 years ago, why are we still using data so old, from before the LCC revolution AND 9/11?

I heard that the original legislation was "affected" by a certain NY Congressperson that allowed a certain upstate NY airport to be included based on the 1997 numbers, and it was written as a fixed date so that this particular airport would continue to qualify for grants. It's outdated and silly especially since that particular airport has grown so much in the past eight years that it would never get a grant today.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33289 posts, RR: 71
Reply 17, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 2635 times:

More proposals:


  • Colombia, Missouri to attract a second airline
  • Gallup, New Mexico for US Airways to Phoenix
  • Grand Forks, North Dakota to attract a second airline
  • Iron County, Michigan for an additional daily Midwest Connection flight to Milwaukee
  • Kileen, Texas for marketing
  • Klamath Falls, Oregon and North Bend, Oregon for United Express/Skywest to San Francisco (from both airports)
  • Moline/Quad Cities, Illinois for US Airways service to Phoenix
  • Monroe, Louisiana for American Eagle to Dallas
  • Sarasota, Florida for marketing and expanded service
  • Traverse City, Michigan for year-round service to Cincinnati on Delta Connection
  • Tuscaloosa, Alabama for Delta Connection to Atlanta


a.
User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5848 posts, RR: 28
Reply 18, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2621 times:

Quoting SeeTheWorld (Reply 14):
Actually, there is a pretty big difference these days between the type of service at a small-hub vs.a non-hub

Depends upon the airport. For example, FAT and BFL serve larger MSA populations than almost every other small hub's MSA but have numbers until recently that were under 500,000 boardings a year.

Quoting SeeTheWorld (Reply 14):
if you look at the awards over the past few years, you'll see that the vast majority go to non-hub airports.

Only 71 out of 460 SCASD qualifying airports are small hubs so I would expect most of the grants to go to the smaller airports.  Wink

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 15):
I'm guessing at least 500,000?

The 1997 base year cut off at BUF at 1.5 million boardings.

Additionally there were some airports listed as small hubs that saw large changes after 1997. That includes LGB, which only saw 325,000 in 1997 but saw 1.5 million in 2005. The list is here, a little hard to read but the small hubs run from BUF down to LGB, starting on page 2.
http://ostpxweb.dot.gov/aviation/X-5...20Hub%20Classification%20Stats.pdf



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineSeeTheWorld From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1325 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2619 times:

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 18):
The 1997 base year cut off at BUF at 1.5 million boardings.

Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner.


User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2606 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
Flint, Michigian for Delta Connection to New York City-JFK

Interesting proposal, could actually happen.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 13):
Charleston, WV for service to New York City or Newark

Probably, if granted, CO to EWR. I can't really see either DL or AA operate LGA/JFK-CRW, let alone B6.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 17):
Grand Forks, North Dakota to attract a second airline

I thought DL with its soon-to-start service to SLC will be GFK's second airline, seeing as so far only NW used to fly there?

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 17):
Traverse City, Michigan for year-round service to Cincinnati on Delta Connection

I believe this application already failed twice, though thrice might be a charm. Not convinced, though.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 17):
Tuscaloosa, Alabama for Delta Connection to Atlanta

Is it that hard to drive 60 miles to BHM, an airport where fares are logically bound to be lower than at an airport that would only see one airline? Don't see much chances for this either.


User currently offlineAtrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5702 posts, RR: 52
Reply 21, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2586 times:

Is MWA any likely to see or hear anything??

Alex



Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
User currently offlineIowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4435 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2580 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 20):
I thought DL with its soon-to-start service to SLC will be GFK's second airline, seeing as so far only NW used to fly there?

DL is starting SLC-FAR, not GFK.


User currently offlineKcrwFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3847 posts, RR: 7
Reply 23, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2573 times:

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 20):
Probably, if granted, CO to EWR. I can't really see either DL or AA operate LGA/JFK-CRW, let alone B6.

Why cant you see Delta? They've got the most marketshare here and good loadfactors. They are making money in crw. They have a much larger presence than CO...


User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2566 times:

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 22):
DL is starting SLC-FAR, not GFK.

Damn, already getting sleepy :-P . In that case, I say the second airline will be DL to SLC, with NW (or an Airlink carrier) doing the ground handling for them  Wink .

Quoting KcrwFlyer (Reply 23):
Why cant you see Delta? They've got the most marketshare here and good loadfactors. They are making money in crw. They have a much larger presence than CO...

Perhaps, but CRW really doesn't seem like a route that would fit DL's route structure from LGA nor from JFK. Besides, CO would probably mean more competition at CRW, and the DOT always prefer that.


25 KcrwFlyer : Does DOT get to pick the carrier? Can they make the grant applicable to only CO or DL, or do they just approve the money itself?
26 Humberside : Is there likely to be another bid from RFD for some money?
27 FATFlyer : Interesting rumor since I don't think I've ever seen an application for a SCASD grant from BUF. SYR yes but not BUF.
28 ATCT : I could most definitely see Delta starting JFK-CRW. With our new hub expansion I could easily see either one/two a day CRJ's or the Dash-8's when the
29 DAL767400ER : No, the DOT doesn't get to pick the carrier, but the airports can help their case by either stating that the money would be to lure an LCC (worked fo
30 MAH4546 : Toledo, Ohio has applied with hopes of service to New York City on jetBlue. Wichita, Kansas, meanwhile, has a ludicrious application in hopes of getti
31 Post contains images DAL767400ER : TOL has applied for NYC service for home many years in a row now ? I don't know what the guys there are smoking, but it must be some strong sh!t.
32 Tornado82 : Having read the app... their 2nd choice is US to LGA, on Colgan Saabs. It's well over a 400nm trip. Combine that, with LGA holds, and do you realize
33 Post contains images Flyinryan99 : Maybe they'll finally give it to us so we quit bugging them about it
34 Ouboy79 : They've always went the way of Delta in EVERY prior application...I think that since they are finally going to target a true LCC, this application ma
35 Post contains links FATFlyer : Looks like a proposal that isnt in the dockets yet will be from San Luis Obispo, CA. The application will be for $250,000 to lure DLConn on SBP-SLC. h
36 Kcrwflyer : It isnt about connections.... God forbid the route would grow...you know like all of the other ones weve gotten over the years. some credit.. please.
37 Tornado82 : Those are the numbers and projections that your own airport authority provided!
38 MAH4546 : More... Akron, Ohio for US Airways to Phoenix. Altoona, Penn. for marketing. Binghamton, New York for marketing. Brunswick, Georgia for a second airli
39 MrSTL : I might have missed this, was Salina, KS awarded/granted to anyone yet?
40 Stirling : I am looking at these lists and only one thing comes to mind..... About 75% of these are unnecessary and frivolous. A bus in Minnesota? A private jet
41 Tornado82 : Lynchburg is in Virginia, not WV. How the hell are they going to support that? It would have to be mainline because no RJ has the legs, and where are
42 Post contains images Iowaman : Since when is the SCASD used for buses? WTF? They just got a grant not to long ago for MQ to ORD, they have 4 ERJ's a day to ORD, I don't see how the
43 MAH4546 : Which city is that? Of the Florida cities that applied - Melbourne, Naples, and Sarasota - none have flights to New York City anymore with the except
44 Stirling : I included Newark. CO has one daily and 3 weekly, I am not really sure how I came up with 4....or....I might have been looking at the CLT column, and
45 Humberside : Whats MLB's application for?
46 MAH4546 : US Airways to Charlotte.
47 Humberside : Has it got a good chance of success. I guess they could do with a choice other than DL
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