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The Latest From Dalpa Just Out.  
User currently offlineB777ER From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 548 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 5361 times:

Here is the AP story. Sounds like Lee Moak wants to be a little dictator and do it all himself. Sounds like he is taking it personal to me. Wish he would stop worrying about a bloody strike and instead concentrate on getting a deal done!

Delta union leader seeks strike authority

By HARRY R. WEBER
AP Business Writer

ATLANTA (AP) -- Now that Delta Air Lines Inc. pilots have authorized a strike, their union leader wants the right to decide when a walkout would occur.

The chairman, Lee Moak, said he would meet in special session with union leaders Wednesday and ask them to empower him to decide when and if to set a strike date.

"If our contract is rejected, we will strike," Moak said in an interview. "I can't be more direct than that."

His comments Tuesday came after Delta pilots, angered by management's effort to throw out their contract and impose deep pay cuts, voted by a wide margin to authorize a strike.

The 94.7 percent vote in favor of authorizing a strike currently gives union leaders the authority to set a strike date. They didn't set a date immediately and gave no indication when they might act.

The results were announced Tuesday in a memo to pilots from Moak.

An arbitration panel must decide by April 15 whether to void the pilots' contract.

The nation's third largest carrier, which is operating under bankruptcy protection, has said a strike would put it out of business.

Any strike would likely prompt a court challenge by the company, which would almost certainly seek a restraining order. Moak said in an interview the union will "do what is legal."

Moak said that during a special meeting to be held by Wednesday he will ask union leaders to give him sole authority to set a strike date. He said the union is still open to negotiations, but he insisted the company hasn't been willing to compromise.

Delta spokesman Bruce Hicks said the vote made public Tuesday will not affect service.

"Together with our pilots and all of our employees we remain focused on our No. 1 priority, which is taking good care of our customers," Hicks said.

He added that the company is committed to seeking a consensual deal with its pilots.

"The panel asked us to work privately and quietly and we're doing everything we can to honor their requests," Hicks said.

Atlanta-based Delta sought approval to reject its contract with its 5,930 pilots so it can impose up to $325 million in long-term pay and benefit cuts, which would include a wage reduction of at least 18 percent.

Delta's pilots previously agreed to $1 billion in annual concessions, including a 32.5 percent wage cut, in a five-year deal in 2004. But Delta, which has imposed pay cuts on other employees, said it needs more from its pilots after filing for bankruptcy protection in September.

So far, there has been little movement toward a long-term deal to replace an interim deal reached in December, though both sides have met at least a handful of times since arbitration hearings in Washington ended March 23, Moak said. The company has offered to reduce its concessions request to $305 million a year if the pilots reach a consensual deal, while the pilots say they have offered $140 million.

Moak said Tuesday that each sides' table positions have not changed.

He told pilots in his memo that the union isn't using its strike threat as a bargaining tactic.

"All too often over the past months, management has attempted to mischaracterize the defense of our contract as posturing, gamesmanship and, most recently, saber-rattling. They are wrong," Moak wrote.

Of the 5,590 pilots who voted on the strike authorization ballot, 5,295 voted in favor, according to the union.

The company says the average earnings of pilots last year who worked the full year was more than $157,000. The union says line pilots made on average $151,000 last year. Both the union figure and company figure exclude management pilots, though the union figure also excludes instructor pilots and certain other pilots.


Link: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/D/DELTA_PILOTS?

[Edited 2006-04-05 17:24:08]

[Edited 2006-04-05 17:38:24]

60 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMD88Captain From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1330 posts, RR: 20
Reply 1, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 5346 times:

You cannot get a deal done if the other side will not come to the table. It has been take this deal or we will take away your contract. Bottom line: DAL pilots will not work without a contract. You can expect a walkout, I am sorry to say. BTW. It is DALPA.

[Edited 2006-04-05 17:28:39]

User currently offlineB777ER From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 548 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 5324 times:

While you have every right to walk-out, I do hope your savings account is well padded or your investments are sound as you will be living off it.

User currently offlineDeltaSFO From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2488 posts, RR: 22
Reply 3, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 5304 times:

A strike is unlikely. A deal will be struck.


It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
User currently offlineMattRB From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 1624 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 5261 times:

Wish I had that kind of confidence in a deal being struck..


Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible.
User currently offlineSurfdog75 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 331 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 5207 times:

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 5):



Quoting DeltaSFO (Reply 3):
A strike is unlikely. A deal will be struck.

I agree. It's unfortunate that management chose to work against instead of with the pilot group. Management has been unwilling to negotiate even when it is clear that they are asking far too much. They have chosen a path which will create distrust for years to come.

It is a shame to see the inspired work of some of the good new management (Mr Whitehurst, Mr Cortelyou, and Mr Hauenstein) jeopardized by the bad old "kill the pilots" group of left over management. A lot more can be accomplished by working together rather than against each other. Why people never learn this, I can not figure out.

Pilots have agreed to give back almost 6 billion dollars over 5 years and now have no chance at the retirement most have worked a lifetime for. This is exponentially more than any other work group has given. They were even willing to give back after 911 but management said it was not enough and negotiations dragged out for years. I'd say that shows they were willing to work together to fix this thing but management still comes after them. It's simple, don't void the pilot contract, work together, and there will be no strike.


User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4860 posts, RR: 25
Reply 6, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 5174 times:
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Quoting Surfdog75 (Reply 6):
Management has been unwilling to negotiate even when it is clear that they are asking far too much.

'Clear' in whose mind? It's clear to DALPA that management is asking too much but it is also clear to management that they are asking for just enough. The 'truth' or 'objective' view, if you will, is unfortunately going to be in the heads and minds of the arbitration panel. The truth is probably, as usual, somewhere in between, i.e., DALPA is being too optimistic in its analysis and projections, and management is being more conservative/pessimistic in its assessment of the situation....


User currently offlineBeefstew25 From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 675 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 5156 times:

Pilots need to realize that the market is not going to bear what they traditionally have made. There are legions of pilots that would take half of what these guys are making.

Also, why must DALPA have a pension? A 401k would be a better option. The company pays in once, and no longer is responsible for it.



MLB: Where you are always number one for takeoff.....
User currently offlineORD From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 1381 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 5108 times:

My question is why would the pilot's union agree back in December to binding arbitration, only to come back and say that if the decision does not go their way they will strike? They must live by the panel's decision, otherwise they should have not agreed to the binding arbitration in the first place. Whether right or wrong, they are coming across as the bad guys in terms of public opinion.

User currently offlineGokmengs From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1123 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 5098 times:

Quoting B777ER (Thread starter):
Here is the AP story. Sounds like Lee Moak wants to be a little dictator and do it all himself. Sounds like he is taking it personal to me. Wish he would stop worrying about a bloody strike and instead concentrate on getting a deal done!

After reading his comments in previous months I too believe that Moak is taking it personal, and his attitude regarding this matter is wrong and not helpful to the situation at hand. It is so amazing that all of DL's people lives are literally in the hands of this guy.

[Edited 2006-04-05 18:52:31]


Gercekleri Tarih Yazar Tarihide Galatasaray
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11385 posts, RR: 62
Reply 10, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 5084 times:

Quoting DeltaSFO (Reply 3):
A strike is unlikely. A deal will be struck.

Agreed. In the end, I doubt that Delta's pilots will actually walk out, knowing that they are basically walking out of employment. While they (understandably so) don't like that they are ultimately going to have to take a huge cut in pay and benefits, and possibly lose a sizeable portion of their pensions, they also no doubt recognize that if they are all out on the street, they probably aren't going to find all that many places hiring at the wages they are paid now, or would be paid under any concession plan. I could be wrong, but I hope not, as I would hate to see Delta collapse just because the pilots won't give more concessions.


User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4741 posts, RR: 45
Reply 11, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 5053 times:

In the tune of "Don't Cry For Me Argentina"

It won't be easy, you think it strange
Yet you try to explain how you feel
But you still want our love after all that you’ve done

You say you won't believe me
All you will see is a man in a suit
Who’s flying up front in the nines
And seven three sevens too

You had to let it happen, you had to say
That management couldn’t run your life
They didn’t understand what you did, as you stared at the sun

So you choose strike
Running around, picket lines too
But nothing impresses us at all
And you shouldn’t expect it to

Don’t cry for us Delta Pilots
The truth is we never liked you
All through those bad flights
We kept our promise…
And now you push us away

And as for fortune, and as for fame
You say you were in it for the love
Though it seemed in the world, United +1 was what you desired

You are illusions
Not the team workers you promised to be
The answer was here all the time
I hope you enjoy flipping a burger or three

Don’t cry for us Delta Pilots
The truth is it never was you
That kept us loyal
it was F/As and ground crew too

Have I said too much?
There's nothing more I can think of to say to you.
But all you have to do is look at me to know
That every word is true



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineSurfdog75 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 331 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 5053 times:

Quoting ORD (Reply 9):
My question is why would the pilot's union agree back in December to binding arbitration, only to come back and say that if the decision does not go their way they will strike? They must live by the panel's decision, otherwise they should have not agreed to the binding arbitration in the first place. Whether right or wrong, they are coming across as the bad guys in terms of public opinion.

They only agreed to let the 3 man panel replace the bankruptcy judge and to take a temporary additional 14 percent pay cut while the decision is being made. It is not binding arbitration. They have said all along they would not work without a contract. The panel only decides whether the company can void the pilot contract or not, nothing else.


User currently onlineSPREE34 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 2232 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 4996 times:

I would think all of this would be easier for the Pilots to take if Delta Management had taken similar cuts, and/or hadn't squandered the previous givebacks by the Pilots.

These guys/gals we NOT handed flying jobs at (what was) one of the world's best carriers. They worked for it. Many for years, and at wages below what Tennis and Golf Instructors are paid at the clubhouse. I can see why most of them are taking this stand. Maybe having the present job at one third your original pay/benefit is OK, maybe it's not. It's their call. I wouldn't swap positions with them right now, and I try to remember that everytime I think about offering criticism.

If DL goes down there will be plenty of places to spread the blame.



I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
User currently offlineORD From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 1381 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 4949 times:

Quoting Surfdog75 (Reply 13):
They only agreed to let the 3 man panel replace the bankruptcy judge and to take a temporary additional 14 percent pay cut while the decision is being made. It is not binding arbitration.

That's not the way I understand the situation. There is still a bankruptcy judge (Adlai Hardin), it's just the arbitration panel is making the decision on this. Both management and pilots agreed to binding arbitration on this issue. From one newspaper article dated December 29:

"Delta Air Lines pilots voted on Wednesday to approve a 14 percent pay cut in a deal their union worked out with management to help the bankrupt carrier cope with an expected cash crunch. Delta and the Air Line Pilots Association, which represents the Atlanta-based company's 6,000 pilots, will now try to hammer out a comprehensive agreement by March. If not, the sides have agreed to let the decision be made by a three-person arbitration panel."

From another article:

"Delta and the union, the Air Line Pilots Association, have also set a March 1 deadline to reach an agreement on a permanent pay package that pilots would vote on by March 22. If the union and the airline cannot come to terms, they will submit the dispute to a three-member panel for binding arbitration."


User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4860 posts, RR: 25
Reply 15, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 4926 times:
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Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 14):
If DL goes down there will be plenty of places to spread the blame.

True, however:

Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 14):
I would think all of this would be easier for the Pilots to take if Delta Management had taken similar cuts, and/or hadn't squandered the previous givebacks by the Pilots.

What makes you think DL management hasn't taken cuts? Not only had there been cuts before Ch.11, they pretty much had all bonuses and severance packages removed last September when DL filed Ch.11. (the severance package has since been reinstated but is only valid if the employee is involuntarily terminated due to the restructuring). Jerry himself took no pay for most of last year and the others (Hauenstein, Bastian, Whitehurst, etc.) are mostly working at below-market wages. And up to 1,000 management personnel are being laid off in the coming months...Many management positions have been cut and are not going to be replaced. I am not saying that anyone should feel sorry for management but at this point, one would be seriously delusional to think that there is any room for ANYONE at DL to be just playing this game for kicks. Many management and non-union personnel at DL are now in a survival mode - they know what's at stake and are pulling out all the stops to ensure there is a viable DL in the years to come.

Squandered the givebacks? Bear in mind the givebacks only happened less than a year before the Ch.11 filing. In between the givebacks and the BK filing, Katrina happened and fuel costs shot through the roof, thus forcing DL to enter Ch.11. DL is in Ch.11 - it cannot squander any cash willy-nilly - practically every expense has to be approved by the court.

[Edited 2006-04-05 19:39:06]

User currently offlineH53Epilot From Israel, joined Mar 2004, 177 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 4910 times:

Quoting B777ER (Thread starter):
All too often over the past months, management has attempted to mischaracterize the defense of our contract as posturing, gamesmanship and, most recently, saber-rattling. They are wrong," Moak wrote

Then what was the purpose of the "practice strike?"

Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 14):
These guys/gals we NOT handed flying jobs at (what was) one of the world's best carriers. They worked for it. Many for years, and at wages below what Tennis and Golf Instructors are paid at the clubhouse. I can see why most of them are taking this stand.

Ummmmm, many if not most have come from the military, many of whom have full, secure government pensions at 43. Commonly known as the largest former military pilot airline, many had very comfortable and extremely secure flying jobs in the military. Not ironically, it's the former military guys who are the most militant about shutting the company down.

[Edited 2006-04-05 20:11:10]

User currently offlineSurfdog75 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 331 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 4910 times:

Quoting ORD (Reply 15):
That's not the way I understand the situation. There is still a bankruptcy judge (Adlai Hardin), it's just the arbitration panel is making the decision on this. Both management and pilots agreed to binding arbitration on this issue.

There is still a bankruptcy judge of course. The US Trustee stepped in and brokered the deal in which the 3-man panel would replace the judge on the issue of the company's 1113 petition (request to void the pilot contract) only. It was also hoped that the extra 3 months along with additional temporary concessions would give both sides time to come to an agreement. The board's duties never included arbitrating the contract language, only whether the company can void the current pilot contract. The pilots have said from the beginning that they will not work without a contract.


User currently offlineB777ER From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 548 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 4858 times:

All the work a lot of these pilots put in to get to where they are..going down the tubes. Nevermind all the years the other employees put in planning their kids educations, retirements, whether to buy that house or new car and all of it going away because a few men would rather puff there chests out and refuse to broker a deal. What a shame. It is truly the way the world works...a few people determining the fate of many.

User currently offlineCory6188 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2686 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 4784 times:

While I understand that many of you are frustrated with the pilots, I can sympathize greatly with their position. There is no doubt that it is a shame that they intend on bringing all of DL down with them, but things come to a point where, even if you end up jobless, the pay simply isn't worth the work anymore.

For example, let's say you earn $100,000 per year - a nice salary. Your company falls on hard times, and they reduce you to $70,000 per year. That's still okay - you have to make some cuts at home, maybe buy less luxurious things, but you're still surviving. And now management is telling you that you're only going to make $50,000 per year - half of what your original salary was, and that doesn't even take the serious cuts in benefits into account. This is where the DL pilots will end up if management gets their way.

Yes, they will end up without any job at all, but things come to a point where working simply isn't worth what they're being paid, and I think that many of you are missing this fact. For many of you (note I said many, not all) commenting on the situation, your jobs aren't being targeted for paycuts like the DL pilots are, so until you're sitting in that situation, I think your view would be rather different.

I'm sure that there will be people out there who will discount my argument because I'm still in high school, I don't have to support a family with a career, etc., but I think that the above argument transcends that.


User currently offlineSeeTheWorld From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1325 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 4750 times:

Quoting DeltaSFO (Reply 3):
A strike is unlikely. A deal will be struck.

I agree. This is all posturing ahead of negotiations. While over 94% of pilots voted to authorize a strike, voting to strike and actually striking are two entirely different things.

[Edited 2006-04-05 21:56:45]

User currently offlineJetdeltamsy From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2987 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 4720 times:

Our company's finances are the most fragile of all the airlines in bankruptcy.

While I am very concerned that I could be wrong, I do not believe the pilots will strike. They recognize the company does not have the ability to withstand a work stoppage.

Regardless of what Lee Moak says, the threats being made are empty ones because these highly intelligent individuals know they will ultimately kill our company.

I am all for negotiated agreements. I fully support the union's right to strike. To strike is their right, but not their obligation. These guys follow their gut feelings and not a highly emotional, very public union leader's recommendation. The NWA mechanics did just that and their careers are over.

I think a mutually acceptable agreement will be reached. It's unfortunate that all of this is being played out in the public eye. It only damages the excellent reputation our company has enjoyed for decades.



Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
User currently offlineSeeTheWorld From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1325 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 4693 times:

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 22):
Our company's finances are the most fragile of all the airlines in bankruptcy.

While I am very concerned that I could be wrong, I do not believe the pilots will strike. They recognize the company does not have the ability to withstand a work stoppage.

Regardless of what Lee Moak says, the threats being made are empty ones because these highly intelligent individuals know they will ultimately kill our company.

I am all for negotiated agreements. I fully support the union's right to strike. To strike is their right, but not their obligation. These guys follow their gut feelings and not a highly emotional, very public union leader's recommendation. The NWA mechanics did just that and their careers are over.

I think a mutually acceptable agreement will be reached. It's unfortunate that all of this is being played out in the public eye. It only damages the excellent reputation our company has enjoyed for decades.

I think you hit the nail on the head. I agree with everything you have said. It's thoughtful, unbiased, and unemotional. Good job.


User currently offlineH53Epilot From Israel, joined Mar 2004, 177 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 4681 times:

Quoting Cory6188 (Reply 20):
For example, let's say you earn $100,000 per year - a nice salary. Your company falls on hard times, and they reduce you to $70,000 per year. That's still okay - you have to make some cuts at home, maybe buy less luxurious things, but you're still surviving. And now management is telling you that you're only going to make $50,000 per year - half of what your original salary was, and that doesn't even take the serious cuts in benefits into account. This is where the DL pilots will end up if management gets their way.

How about a more realistic example. Let's say you earn $100,000 per year - a nice salary. Your company finally has a great 2 years and you demand a 75% pay raise or you threaten to shut the company down. The company gives in. The company falls on really hard times losing $12 Billion over 5 years and will be out of money in another year. They come to you and demand that your pay be reduced to close to what you were making before the historic profit years. You tell them no way as you have already given some of the raise back and to give any more will mean food stamps for you and your family.
Yes, I am exaggerating a bit, but no more than in the previous example.


User currently offlineAa757first From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3347 posts, RR: 8
Reply 24, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 4597 times:

Quoting Cory6188 (Reply 20):
While I understand that many of you are frustrated with the pilots, I can sympathize greatly with their position. There is no doubt that it is a shame that they intend on bringing all of DL down with them, but things come to a point where, even if you end up jobless, the pay simply isn't worth the work anymore.

Well, they can leave Delta and let the flight attendants, gate agents, ramp agents, call center staff, dispatchers, mechanics and other staff ride the bankruptcy and bad times out and get to a point where Delta is profitable then or they can shut the whole airline down and make it so 40,000 people are out of work.

The most junior Captain at Delta is flying the MD-88 and has seven years of seniority. He's making $112,385 right now. Now, let's see what his job opporunties are.

DL (after pay cut): $92,155.70 (decrease 18%)
B6: $45,900 (decrease 60%)
PSA: $18,100 (decrease 83%)
North American: $43,400 (decrease 62%)

AAndrew


25 Cory6188 : Valid point. I hadn't realized the rather dramatic disparities between the payscales at the different carriers.
26 Post contains images KabAir : I don't have a lot of hope in the pilots, I think they really would strike if left to their own designs. My hope is in their wives/husbands/lovers. Wi
27 Syncmaster : Ok, I agree to a certain point except... No one makes them stay at Delta, if they don't like it they need to move on, I guarantee someone else would
28 WesternA318 : KabAir, thats just awesome! Let's hop ethese cooler heads prevail.
29 Pgv : Well...you're partly right. While I agree this is all posturing and what not...DALPA is like the rest of ALPA, it winds everybody up good. Can person
30 Milesrich : Delta has seriously misjudged the pilot group, which by the way is much smaller, than it used to be. These guys are no dummies. They did not earn thei
31 GoBoeing : Kabair You asanine little story is the product of your imagination. I think it'd go more like this: Wife (pilot): They want us to take another paycut.
32 KabAir : GoBoeing, While I enjoyed your little story revision, I think you missed a main point. So forget the whole marital relationship thing and focus on thi
33 GoBoeing : The management will be fine either way, as you said. They're treating their workers like crap, which is the point of this strike. Enough is enough as
34 Gift4tbone : I agree, and I hope many DL pilots read that, and understand it. I just hope they come to a deal. ANY deal. -Tony@PVD
35 KL662 : If my company pays me less than I think I'm worth -- for whatever the reason, be it hard times, evil management, fuel prices, etc. -- I'd go find ano
36 Jumbojet : there experience is in the flight deck for numerious years with no experience elsewhere, what are you talking about?
37 SeeTheWorld : This is FantasyLand. Give me an example of a job that a pilot can get in short oder for $100,000 per year (a 50% pay cut) who is currently making $20
38 Post contains images Halls120 : Maybe if management wasn't trying to obtain more than is really needed from the pilots, they wouldn't be in a mood to strike. My brother falls into t
39 SeeTheWorld : That's great - the pilots will show the managers, who have transferable skills, that they are at the breaking point. And, who's going to be spending
40 Post contains images SBN580 : Yes, they will show management. But if Delta folded would the now out of work flight attendant go, "Yeah! You showed 'em pilots!" How about the custo
41 SeeTheWorld : You pretty much hit the nail on the head. My father was a pilot and was in ALPA. I spent almost ten years in airline management, and what I learned w
42 H53Epilot : I seriously doubt that unless it's his family business. No civilian management experience. When's the last time he ever supervised people? 15 years a
43 Alias1024 : I'm pretty sure 5,000 pilots giving a letter of resignation to their chief pilot would shut down the airline as well. Those newspaper articles were w
44 Alias1024 : Yes it will, but not just the people you mentioned. It will impact many other airline pilots in this country. If the pilots at DL give in to manageme
45 Post contains images MattRB : Sorry, but this Chicken Little arguement doesn't fly. US & UA have already cut as much as they needed to to make it through bankruptcy protection. DL
46 SPREE34 : There is a book about the ALPA and it's beginnings, I believe it's titled "Flying the Line." Someone else correct me if I have that title wrong. Anyw
47 SeeTheWorld : And, that folks is pretty much the HARD TRUTH. Although, I think many of the DL pilots know the union leaders are just BS'ing and playing CYA, but th
48 Pgv : I would love to hear some of your ideas, or example as to where all these Delta pilots are going to go for at least $100k/year? Especially the junior
49 Jumbojet : Don't you think that DALPA should be more concerned about trying to find delta pilots other jobs with whomever instead of shutting down an airline and
50 Pgv : Makes sense to me and probably others. Only problem is that means putting ALPA pilots in other ALPA airlines so that dues continue to get paid. And w
51 Gift4tbone : You seem to worry about what the other airlines response will be. Did the EA strike and subsoquent shut down show others? Must I mention the recent N
52 Jetdeltamsy : In your typically unrealistic and short sighted response, you fail to realize that the pilot group is essential to the operation of the airline. If t
53 Halls120 : You can doubt all you want. because my brother saw the handwriting on the wall years ago, he has a part-time business on the side. One of the supplie
54 Alias1024 : Yes. Frank Lorenzo isn't allowed to run an airline. Their actions (EA pilots and mechanics) may have stopped others from trying such harsh tactics wh
55 SBN580 : The race to the bottom? In terms of? Pay? Skill? Number of pilots? Yes, it might influence other airline's management to ask for more concessions fro
56 Alias1024 : Pay Um, what does this have to do with Delta pilots possibly striking? I never argued that bankruptcy was wrong. Right now, Delta management and abou
57 Post contains images Jacobin777 : DL isn't vital to the United States economy as a whole..granted it would cause chaos for a while but other carriers would eventually pick up the slac
58 Ckfred : Put it this way, my in-laws live near ATL, and they are converting their Delta miles to Marriott points. If management gets the contract voided, the p
59 Post contains images SBN580 : I was trying to put the Delta situation in context with the general bankruptcy issues in the industry. And, how many strict free marketers, with no s
60 Sv7887 : You are very right. Excellent post. Just like the US Govt bailed out Chrysler, I would highly doubt they'd allow Delta to go completely under without
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