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Boac 707-436 Break-up Over Fuji, Japan (1960s)  
User currently offlineStarstream707 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 174 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 9629 times:

I saw the caption in this photo and wondered if anyone knew anything about it. What kind of airworthiness directives were issued by Boeing as a result of the break up? I thought 707's were built like battleships, not typical to lose one to turbulence.


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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Mel Lawrence



43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJAAlbert From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1573 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 9626 times:

I've never heard of an airliner breaking up mid-flight due to turbulence! Any other such accidents caused by turbulence?

User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20497 posts, RR: 62
Reply 2, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 9613 times:

The aircraft encountered severe clear air turbulence as the pilot flew near Mount Fuji to give the passengers a view. Aircraft broke apart due to excessive forces.

http://www.airdisaster.com/cgi-bin/v...E&airline=British+Overseas+Airways



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineDc863 From Denmark, joined Jun 1999, 1558 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 9605 times:

The 707 was hit by a rolling wave of air coming from Mt Fuji. It slammed into the side of the aircraft equivalent to 8 Gs. Earlier that day a Navy A-4 Skyhawk was almost shaken to pieces according to it's pilot by severe CAT near Mt Fuji. A passenger onboard G-APFE was filming the mountain from his window seat when the rolling wave of air hit the aircraft. The film was found by investigators and analyzed. It showed the mountain and countryside followed by something jarring the camera and then pictures of the seatback and floor carpeting. Quite a disturbing accident. Wien Air Alaska lost a F-27 in 1968 in upstate Alaska when CAT ripped one wing off owing to the severity of the turbulence.

User currently offlineStarstream707 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 174 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 9590 times:

My goodness... that had to be some wind to take down a 707. Seriously.

User currently offlineTrekster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 9536 times:

The pilot was also off track a bit, and closer then he should have been to the Mountain to give the passengers a view of Mt Fuji, which did not really help matters, but you cant really predict CAT, well, back then.

Not a good accident at all.


User currently offlineRktsci From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 59 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 9511 times:

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 1):
I've never heard of an airliner breaking up mid-flight due to turbulence! Any other such accidents caused by turbulence?

The Lockheed Electra had issues with the combination of severe turbulance and engine strut mount resonance. A few aircraft were lost.


User currently offlineAndesSMF From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 9468 times:

The Electra issues were also design based. It was one of the reasons why the program wasnt successful. Lockheed fixed the plane and it became a workhorse for many years.

I have a picture of the BOAC 707 passing by the DC-8 that had crashed in Tokyo the night before. Imagine preparing for take-off and seen the wrecked plane pass by, only to have a worse fate befall you minutes later.


User currently offlineMrMcCoy From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 377 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 9451 times:

About 5 years ago, I climbed Mt. Fuji in an 8 hour zig-zag ascent. It was HARD. But what I remember the most was the change in wind strength when the sun began shifting around the peak, and a sudden *constant* blast of air.

A helicopter was about a mile away taking photos/film when the gust came, and that helo just about flipped on it's back.



It only takes five years to go from rumor to standard operating procedure.
User currently offline777fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2496 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 9383 times:

Anyone that's flown off of the east coast of Japan can probably attest to the veracity of the turbulence that's often associated with the Siberian Express jet stream roaring down south before hitting the mountains on Honshu.

Come to think of it, I can't really remember a flight off the east coast of Japan that wasn't at least turbulent enough to warrant the seat belt sign and/or seated FAs.



DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
User currently onlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6177 posts, RR: 30
Reply 10, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 9300 times:
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Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 1):
I've never heard of an airliner breaking up mid-flight due to turbulence! Any other such accidents caused by turbulence?

A few nasty accidents I can recall:

NW Boeing 720-051B N724US Feb 12, 1963 FN#724
BOAC Boeing 707-436 G-APFE Mar 5, 1966
Braniff BAC-111-203AE N1553 Aug 6, 1966
DL DC-9-14 N3305L May 30,1972 FN#205
AA Boeing 727-95 N1963 Apr 17,1976 FN#963

And there are a few others I really can't recall with such detail. Like the Austral plane in Argentina in the 90's that went down in Uruguay making a freaking crater after entering a thunderstorm.



MGGS
User currently offlineStarstream707 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 174 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 9015 times:

The DL 727 coming into DFW in the 1980's that got slapped into the ground is another one that comes to mind from turbulence. The wind does strange things sometimes. I've heard on the news a time or two in the last decade where flights will be cruising along and just drop altitude (500-1000ft or so) because of some kind of shelf of air and stuff gets slammed around. I always ride with my seatbelt on.

User currently offlineMrMcCoy From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 377 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 8856 times:

Quoting AR385 (Reply 10):
Braniff BAC-111-203AE N1553 Aug 6, 1966

This one flew right into a damn thunderhead. Not smart, but onboard radar at that time wasn't as clear as it is today, either.



It only takes five years to go from rumor to standard operating procedure.
User currently offline777fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2496 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 8823 times:

Quoting Starstream707 (Reply 11):
The DL 727 coming into DFW in the 1980's that got slapped into the ground is another one that comes to mind from turbulence

If you're referring to the crash on 8/2/85, it was a L-1011 and was caused by wind shear. The end result was the installment of Doppler radar at most commercial airports across the US.



DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
User currently onlineCV990A From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 1419 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 8738 times:

In his book 'Comets to Concordes' Peter Duffy touches briefly on this accident, and the resulting checks and modifications made to the 707 as a result- if I remember right, the tailplane was strengthened, and checks of the engine mounts were required- but I could be a bit off there.


Kittens Give Morbo Gas
User currently offlineMEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4313 posts, RR: 36
Reply 15, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 8727 times:

I would discount the Delta L-1011 accident in 1985 as well, it didn't break up in mid air. There is quite a (longer) list of weather related landing or take off accidents.

Adding to the above list, we had an accident in the Netherlands in 1981 which made a deep impression on me as a kid; a F-28 Fellowship of NLM Cityhopper had its wing torn off in turbulence after taking off from Rotterdam. It happened on the same day Sadat was killed but in Holland it still was the nr 1 news item.



nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
User currently offlinePhilSquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 8694 times:

Quoting AR385 (Reply 10):
AA Boeing 727-95 N1963 Apr 17,1976 FN#963

That was a late go-around decision. http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19760427-1&lang=en


User currently offlineRdwelch From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 8633 times:

Quoting AR385 (Reply 10):
AR385

Not a break up, but I believe the UA 737 near COS in 4/91 was due to CAT rolling off of Pikes Peak. Correct me if I'm wrong though.

Gus


User currently offlineRichierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4247 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 8610 times:

Quoting Rdwelch (Reply 17):
Not a break up, but I believe the UA 737 near COS in 4/91 was due to CAT rolling off of Pikes Peak. Correct me if I'm wrong though.

I thought this accident was in the bucket of "undetermined". I do know that investigators spent a lot of time looking at the rudder assemblies of 737s after this accident, and more notably, the US crash in Aliquippa, PA around the same time period. As with the PIT crash, very little is known of why this crash occurred. I don't know if winds aloft were ever defined as the cause...



None shall pass!!!!
User currently offlineShankly From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2000, 1541 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 8550 times:

BOAC also suffered a similar incident with a VC-10 over the Andes

http://www.vc10.net/History/incident...ml#G-ASIX%20The%20Andes%20incident

It is believed that the integrity of the Vickers airframe and rear mounted engines played a significant part in this not being a repeat accident



L1011 - P F M
User currently offlineStarstream707 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 174 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 8526 times:

I was riding back to DEN from SFO on a UA 744 in the summer of 1999 and as we descended over the front range it got quite bumpy and I remember the wings flexing heavily.

Quoting 777fan (Reply 13):
If you're referring to the crash on 8/2/85, it was a L-1011 and was caused by wind shear. The end result was the installment of Doppler radar at most commercial airports across the US.

I didn't know about this one. What happened?

I was talking about this ship:


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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Juerg Schmid



EDIT: Was the Tri-Star due to microburst? This one had no flaps on take-off. It seems like a 72 crashed at DFW from a microburst.

[Edited 2006-04-06 20:28:50]

User currently offlineCF-CPI From Canada, joined Nov 2000, 1053 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 8484 times:

Starstream, that 727, N473DA, was involved in a takeoff accident derived from the fact that the captain neglected to set the flaps for t.o. It was similar to the NW MD-80 at DTW the year before, though I think the aircraft never really did gain much altitude and eventually pancaked back onto the airport property and overshot the runway. Some people were killed IIRC.

The fundamental problem was traced to cockpit discipline (or lack of it) during taxi for take-off. A FA was visiting and chatting with the crew and generally distracting them.

I remember reading an account from a passenger in another aircraft who witnessed the DL 727 trying to get airborne. They could see it struggling and they were cheering it on, hoping it would make it.


User currently onlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6177 posts, RR: 30
Reply 22, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 8372 times:
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Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 16):
That was a late go-around decision

When in the flare, strong turbulence rolled the aircraft where the wingtip almost hit the ground. The pilot corrected. But same turbulence kept the plane afloat more than it should have. The result being that the pilot slammed the plane onto the runway, but then decided to go around, increasing power, then decided not to go around and then well, ran off the runway into a gas station.

But turbulence on the flare was what initiated the chain of events.



MGGS
User currently offlineMKEdude From South Korea, joined May 2005, 1011 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 8329 times:

Quoting Starstream707 (Reply 20):
Quoting 777fan (Reply 13):
If you're referring to the crash on 8/2/85, it was a L-1011 and was caused by wind shear. The end result was the installment of Doppler radar at most commercial airports across the US.

I didn't know about this one. What happened?

I was talking about this ship:

The '88 DL crash at DFW was pure pilot error. The 727 was on it's way to SLC when it crashed after takeoff because the flaps were in the wrong position. Most people got out alive, about 15 or so died. This was eerily similar to the NW accident at DTW a year later.

A footnote to both DL crashes at DFW is that one dentist from Jackson, MS
was a passenger on both flights. Talk about lightning striking twice in the same place!



"You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline." Frank Zappa
User currently offlineGavilan From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 2 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 8299 times:

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 7):

Could you please post the photograph?


25 Mlsrar : Similar, execpt for the fact that NW lost all but one young child, whereas most of the complement from the DL incident walked away.
26 MEA-707 : I think we distract from the original subject. How tragic, Delta's 85 and 88 accidents and Northwest 87 MD-80 don't have anything to do with the origi
27 Post contains links PanAm747 : I strongly recommend for further reading, "Air Disasters - Volume One" (actually all four volumes) by MacArthur Job. He gives a very extensive detail
28 Pacific : Despite the 150% rule, it's quite a pity nature still goes one higher.
29 Post contains links and images MissedApproach : I think the NTSB had originally classified it as CAT or undetermined. There was a lot of controversy due to subsequent 737 crashes, & the rudder even
30 Isitsafenow : The NW 720B in 1963 out of MIA was ripped apart in a climb out a few miles from MIA. That was a heck of shot of turbulance! Others have already been
31 Starstream707 : Any details on this or more so, any photos of this aircraft?
32 JBirdAV8r : I believe that was the crash at Greater Southwest (just south of DFW) on a crew training flight? If it was, I believe the cause of that was wake turb
33 Post contains links PlanesNTrains : I found a picture the other day on a website that was apparently taken from the ground and showed the BOAC 707 in final stages of breaking up. The lin
34 AR385 : You are right. It was wake turbulence. However, I thought to include it given the fact that it was, after all, due to turbulence. It was not clear to
35 Dc863 : It entered a severe line of T storms and broke up after being thrown into a dive. As for G-APFE I do have a postcard that shows this very aircraft. O
36 AR385 : Also, there was some over-correcting by the PF that contributed to the break-up.
37 Post contains links 777fan : If that's the case, you are obligated to mention the AA A300 that crashed in Queens just a few years ago. IMO, wake turbulence doesn't apply to this
38 Post contains links AR385 : Not really, there is still a debate about wether they actually encountered wake turbulence. Regardless, here's a link http://aviation-safety.net/data
39 Litz : The sad thing here is they DID make it onto the twolane relatively safely. The problem was, the DC9's wingspan is wider than the right-of-way and a t
40 Richierich : If he is waiting for new material, I hope it is a long time before he is able to write a new book about air crashes!
41 LPLAspotter : Best books ever, I agree with you that he should write more. I remember a quote from the book that there was a Japanese saying that "When the weather
42 AndesSMF : That was actually the crash that made authorities aware of wake vortex issues from large airplanes. The DC-9 encountered the DC-10 vortex and flipped
43 DL763DFW : I rode in F class about a year back on DL from ATL to BOS. I sat next to a retired DL mechanic who was part of the investigation team into that accid
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