Starstream707 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 176 posts, RR: 0 Posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 12153 times:
I saw the caption in this photo and wondered if anyone knew anything about it. What kind of airworthiness directives were issued by Boeing as a result of the break up? I thought 707's were built like battleships, not typical to lose one to turbulence.
Dc863 From Romania, joined Jun 1999, 1591 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 12129 times:
The 707 was hit by a rolling wave of air coming from Mt Fuji. It slammed into the side of the aircraft equivalent to 8 Gs. Earlier that day a Navy A-4 Skyhawk was almost shaken to pieces according to it's pilot by severe CAT near Mt Fuji. A passenger onboard G-APFE was filming the mountain from his window seat when the rolling wave of air hit the aircraft. The film was found by investigators and analyzed. It showed the mountain and countryside followed by something jarring the camera and then pictures of the seatback and floor carpeting. Quite a disturbing accident. Wien Air Alaska lost a F-27 in 1968 in upstate Alaska when CAT ripped one wing off owing to the severity of the turbulence.
Trekster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 12060 times:
The pilot was also off track a bit, and closer then he should have been to the Mountain to give the passengers a view of Mt Fuji, which did not really help matters, but you cant really predict CAT, well, back then.
AndesSMF From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 11992 times:
The Electra issues were also design based. It was one of the reasons why the program wasnt successful. Lockheed fixed the plane and it became a workhorse for many years.
I have a picture of the BOAC 707 passing by the DC-8 that had crashed in Tokyo the night before. Imagine preparing for take-off and seen the wrecked plane pass by, only to have a worse fate befall you minutes later.
MrMcCoy From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 377 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 11975 times:
About 5 years ago, I climbed Mt. Fuji in an 8 hour zig-zag ascent. It was HARD. But what I remember the most was the change in wind strength when the sun began shifting around the peak, and a sudden *constant* blast of air.
A helicopter was about a mile away taking photos/film when the gust came, and that helo just about flipped on it's back.
It only takes five years to go from rumor to standard operating procedure.
777fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2546 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 11907 times:
Anyone that's flown off of the east coast of Japan can probably attest to the veracity of the turbulence that's often associated with the Siberian Express jet stream roaring down south before hitting the mountains on Honshu.
Come to think of it, I can't really remember a flight off the east coast of Japan that wasn't at least turbulent enough to warrant the seat belt sign and/or seated FAs.
AR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7516 posts, RR: 42
Reply 10, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 11824 times:
Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 1): I've never heard of an airliner breaking up mid-flight due to turbulence! Any other such accidents caused by turbulence?
A few nasty accidents I can recall:
NW Boeing 720-051B N724US Feb 12, 1963 FN#724
BOAC Boeing 707-436 G-APFE Mar 5, 1966
Braniff BAC-111-203AE N1553 Aug 6, 1966
DL DC-9-14 N3305L May 30,1972 FN#205
AA Boeing 727-95 N1963 Apr 17,1976 FN#963
And there are a few others I really can't recall with such detail. Like the Austral plane in Argentina in the 90's that went down in Uruguay making a freaking crater after entering a thunderstorm.
Starstream707 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 176 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 11539 times:
The DL 727 coming into DFW in the 1980's that got slapped into the ground is another one that comes to mind from turbulence. The wind does strange things sometimes. I've heard on the news a time or two in the last decade where flights will be cruising along and just drop altitude (500-1000ft or so) because of some kind of shelf of air and stuff gets slammed around. I always ride with my seatbelt on.
CV990A From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 1479 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 11262 times:
In his book 'Comets to Concordes' Peter Duffy touches briefly on this accident, and the resulting checks and modifications made to the 707 as a result- if I remember right, the tailplane was strengthened, and checks of the engine mounts were required- but I could be a bit off there.
MEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4578 posts, RR: 31
Reply 15, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 11251 times:
I would discount the Delta L-1011 accident in 1985 as well, it didn't break up in mid air. There is quite a (longer) list of weather related landing or take off accidents.
Adding to the above list, we had an accident in the Netherlands in 1981 which made a deep impression on me as a kid; a F-28 Fellowship of NLM Cityhopper had its wing torn off in turbulence after taking off from Rotterdam. It happened on the same day Sadat was killed but in Holland it still was the nr 1 news item.
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
Richierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4539 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 11134 times:
Quoting Rdwelch (Reply 17): Not a break up, but I believe the UA 737 near COS in 4/91 was due to CAT rolling off of Pikes Peak. Correct me if I'm wrong though.
I thought this accident was in the bucket of "undetermined". I do know that investigators spent a lot of time looking at the rudder assemblies of 737s after this accident, and more notably, the US crash in Aliquippa, PA around the same time period. As with the PIT crash, very little is known of why this crash occurred. I don't know if winds aloft were ever defined as the cause...
Starstream707 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 176 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 11050 times:
I was riding back to DEN from SFO on a UA 744 in the summer of 1999 and as we descended over the front range it got quite bumpy and I remember the wings flexing heavily.
Quoting 777fan (Reply 13): If you're referring to the crash on 8/2/85, it was a L-1011 and was caused by wind shear. The end result was the installment of Doppler radar at most commercial airports across the US.
CF-CPI From Canada, joined Nov 2000, 1423 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 11008 times:
Starstream, that 727, N473DA, was involved in a takeoff accident derived from the fact that the captain neglected to set the flaps for t.o. It was similar to the NW MD-80 at DTW the year before, though I think the aircraft never really did gain much altitude and eventually pancaked back onto the airport property and overshot the runway. Some people were killed IIRC.
The fundamental problem was traced to cockpit discipline (or lack of it) during taxi for take-off. A FA was visiting and chatting with the crew and generally distracting them.
I remember reading an account from a passenger in another aircraft who witnessed the DL 727 trying to get airborne. They could see it struggling and they were cheering it on, hoping it would make it.
When in the flare, strong turbulence rolled the aircraft where the wingtip almost hit the ground. The pilot corrected. But same turbulence kept the plane afloat more than it should have. The result being that the pilot slammed the plane onto the runway, but then decided to go around, increasing power, then decided not to go around and then well, ran off the runway into a gas station.
But turbulence on the flare was what initiated the chain of events.
MKEdude From South Korea, joined May 2005, 1023 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 10853 times:
Quoting Starstream707 (Reply 20): Quoting 777fan (Reply 13):
If you're referring to the crash on 8/2/85, it was a L-1011 and was caused by wind shear. The end result was the installment of Doppler radar at most commercial airports across the US.
I didn't know about this one. What happened?
I was talking about this ship:
The '88 DL crash at DFW was pure pilot error. The 727 was on it's way to SLC when it crashed after takeoff because the flaps were in the wrong position. Most people got out alive, about 15 or so died. This was eerily similar to the NW accident at DTW a year later.
A footnote to both DL crashes at DFW is that one dentist from Jackson, MS
was a passenger on both flights. Talk about lightning striking twice in the same place!
"You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline." Frank Zappa